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RE: T9

 
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RE: T9 - 2/1/2012 3:30:20 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel


quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

In regards to the RR units unless i missed something you can't control them. The HQ's dispatch them where they want to. If there is a way to control where they go now i'd be glad to hear about it. :)



By "control" I mean move them to a more appropriate HQ. You should probably move about half of the ones you have back to Stavka (and lock) and then next turn move them to HQs that are in command of forts along the line you want to dig, plus add some more (and lock). 5 RR construction brigades per HQ in the rear area line is not too many, you can always disband the excess in 43 (although I find that building surplus in 41 and keeping them just means I don't use the NKPS units as much).

Right now, your best defensive weapon is the shovel.

I think it's been pointed out earlier that you can put a fortified region unit every 3 hexes along the line you want to fortify. Those FRs shouldn't be under Stavka control, they should report to an HQ chock full of RR construction brigades (there are also construction batallions, but they aren't as good and nobody ever seems to build them, they cost the same number of APs). You can go to fort level 3 in every hex then (see the notes below) and up to level 4 in the hexes occupied by the FRs (but you'll want rifle corps with attached sappers to be able to dig that fast). Once you've reached fort level 3 in the hexes in and either side of the FR you can disband it.

Also, what is this "new beta" you refer to? I thought I had the latest beta which is 1.05.53 and the Axis offensive definitely starts in the first week of March. If it had started in May I may have held Moscow in my current game, but that's just not possible in 1.05.53.

--

20) Changes to Fortification Rules
a. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 5 - Only will be built in port hexes that have a fort unit. Once built, the fort unit is not needed to keep the level 4 fort. Not possible in a swamp hex.
b. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 4 - Must have a fort unit in the hex. Once built, the fort unit is not needed to keep the level 4 fort. Not possible in swamp hex.
c. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 3 - Must be adjacent to an enemy hex, be an urban or city hex, or be in or adjacent to a fort unit. Once the level 3 is reached, the condition does not have to continue to be met to keep the level 3 fort.
d. Fort levels that have reached their maximum fort level for the hex may continue to build up to 10% towards the next fort level.
e. Building forts in mud now uses a .25 modifier (instead of .33).
f. Level 4 and 5 forts do not decay.
g. There is no fort decay on turn 1 of any scenario.
h. Doubled the rate of fort decay.
i. Increased decay rate of low level forts, based on the weather.
Extra decay percentage:
Fort Weather
Level clear snow mud/blizzard
0 20 40 80
1 12 24 48
2 4 8 16
g. Added supply cost for fort construction as follows:
fort 0->1 1 tons per fort point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
fort 1->2 2 tons per fort point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
fort 2->3 20 tons per fort points
fort 3->4 200 tons per fort points
fort 4->5 2000 tons per fort points
*note each fort point represents 2% toward the next fort level



Ahh cool yea i didn't know if sappers were ever useful i was always attaching separate tank battalions to my RC's. But sappers make a lot of sense.

It's a beta tester patch we're testing.


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Post #: 211
Upgraded to beta 1.05.59 - 2/1/2012 3:31:25 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jzardos

Bill you might want to update the title of this AAR and include the version of WitE you guys are on? Doesn't seem like you're still on v1.05.18? Or put in post when a new version is being used?

Thanks


There we go :)
Ara and I are both testers so we're working with the latest beta patches to make sure they are kosher.

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Post #: 212
RE: T9 - 2/1/2012 3:48:35 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel


quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley

In regards to the RR units unless i missed something you can't control them. The HQ's dispatch them where they want to. If there is a way to control where they go now i'd be glad to hear about it. :)



By "control" I mean move them to a more appropriate HQ. You should probably move about half of the ones you have back to Stavka (and lock) and then next turn move them to HQs that are in command of forts along the line you want to dig, plus add some more (and lock). 5 RR construction brigades per HQ in the rear area line is not too many, you can always disband the excess in 43 (although I find that building surplus in 41 and keeping them just means I don't use the NKPS units as much).

Right now, your best defensive weapon is the shovel.

I think it's been pointed out earlier that you can put a fortified region unit every 3 hexes along the line you want to fortify. Those FRs shouldn't be under Stavka control, they should report to an HQ chock full of RR construction brigades (there are also construction batallions, but they aren't as good and nobody ever seems to build them, they cost the same number of APs). You can go to fort level 3 in every hex then (see the notes below) and up to level 4 in the hexes occupied by the FRs (but you'll want rifle corps with attached sappers to be able to dig that fast). Once you've reached fort level 3 in the hexes in and either side of the FR you can disband it.

Also, what is this "new beta" you refer to? I thought I had the latest beta which is 1.05.53 and the Axis offensive definitely starts in the first week of March. If it had started in May I may have held Moscow in my current game, but that's just not possible in 1.05.53.

--

20) Changes to Fortification Rules
a. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 5 - Only will be built in port hexes that have a fort unit. Once built, the fort unit is not needed to keep the level 4 fort. Not possible in a swamp hex.
b. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 4 - Must have a fort unit in the hex. Once built, the fort unit is not needed to keep the level 4 fort. Not possible in swamp hex.
c. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 3 - Must be adjacent to an enemy hex, be an urban or city hex, or be in or adjacent to a fort unit. Once the level 3 is reached, the condition does not have to continue to be met to keep the level 3 fort.
d. Fort levels that have reached their maximum fort level for the hex may continue to build up to 10% towards the next fort level.
e. Building forts in mud now uses a .25 modifier (instead of .33).
f. Level 4 and 5 forts do not decay.
g. There is no fort decay on turn 1 of any scenario.
h. Doubled the rate of fort decay.
i. Increased decay rate of low level forts, based on the weather.
Extra decay percentage:
Fort Weather
Level clear snow mud/blizzard
0 20 40 80
1 12 24 48
2 4 8 16
g. Added supply cost for fort construction as follows:
fort 0->1 1 tons per fort point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
fort 1->2 2 tons per fort point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
fort 2->3 20 tons per fort points
fort 3->4 200 tons per fort points
fort 4->5 2000 tons per fort points
*note each fort point represents 2% toward the next fort level




What's the distance a hq can be from the forts to help them with their building? Does it use the "support range" for construction help?

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Post #: 213
RE: T9 - 2/1/2012 8:34:28 AM   
delatbabel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley
What's the distance a hq can be from the forts to help them with their building? Does it use the "support range" for construction help?


You have an updated s3kr1t beta the rest of us can't see and you're asking me?

5 hexes.


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Post #: 214
T25 - 2/1/2012 1:34:43 PM   
bwheatley

 

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T25 OOB



T28 OOB



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Post #: 215
RE: T25 - 2/1/2012 1:37:09 PM   
bwheatley

 

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T28 - Losses



Production


Moscow Area


Central


Voronezh


Southern
Rostov has been liberated


Crimea
The last bottleneck to retaking the whole peninsula has fallen.


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Post #: 216
RE: T9 - 2/1/2012 1:37:44 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel


quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley
What's the distance a hq can be from the forts to help them with their building? Does it use the "support range" for construction help?


You have an updated s3kr1t beta the rest of us can't see and you're asking me?

5 hexes.



I just meant normally. It's using the "support range" listed in the manual right.

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Post #: 217
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 12:45:24 AM   
bwheatley

 

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T34 OOB

Our army is growing but we also see the axis are not taking a ton of casualties about 300k in disabled since T25.


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Post #: 218
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 12:45:47 AM   
bwheatley

 

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T34 production


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Post #: 219
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 12:46:38 AM   
bwheatley

 

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t34 - north



Central



South



Crimea



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Post #: 220
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 1:22:05 AM   
bwheatley

 

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T39
The russian forces were all burned out within 4 turns of the blizzard so it was a slow push forward as the germans retreated.

Our manpower is inching up. But don't let the numbers fool you most units are averaging 50% TOE. Alot of these guys are filling out noncombat roles.

OOB


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Post #: 221
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 1:25:38 AM   
bwheatley

 

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T39

Production
As you can see arm points are still our bottleneck for now as the army builds out.


Land Production
We've at least got a nice stock of T-34's being built that will eventually grind down the nazi panzers.


Losses
The german disabled count near the end of the winter.


Central
We have some fort belts being started. Defense in depth is the only way we're going to put a dent into the panzers.


Crimea
We've started pulling back slowly. Our plan is to try to buy enough time until june when crimea will be the home of the first 3-6 rifle corps. Corps are more effective at holding a chokepoint.


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Post #: 222
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 1:34:41 AM   
bwheatley

 

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46

OOB


We're still not anywhere near completely filled out for our Rifle divisions.
At least in another turn we'll be able to start combining Rifle brigades into divisions.

Tank Corps
We have started building tank corps as soon as we were able to. They will be kept back from the mud lines to be able to refit. They will become very useful in a few turns in reserve mode to beat off a few german attacks.



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Post #: 223
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 1:36:40 AM   
bwheatley

 

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During some of the clear turns ara does start doing small scale attacks. In most battles i lost and pull back. Before the start of each clear turn i pull back a few hexes since i detect panzers  in the south staging near stalino. There are a few more divisions just South West of moscow that are on the front lines. They worry me so we've staying prepared.

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Post #: 224
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 1:50:15 AM   
bwheatley

 

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T47

On a clear turn the germans strike my weak screen units. Most of them are in need of rotation off the front lines a few shatter under the attacks. But my tank corps have not shown themselves yet to ara. In this first turn we unleash them all over the front where ara leaves weak units.

Battle 1 -
Here a single tank corp along with the remainder of 48th army hit's the 161st german ID. The result is finally a good deal of german casualties. The tanks have enough MP to get a few hexes behind the lines again to start refitting for their next meeting.

This will be a fitting surprise for the germans all up and down the front i'm sure.




Battle 2 -
2 Tank corps along with an assortment of other RD hit an exposed german ID. Again the germans are sent hurtling backwards. These were the first two corps that i built. Before their conversion they were some of the most well equipped tank brigades on the whole front. It shows with the viciousness which they finally are able to push the germans back. Once again the corps retreat after battle behind friendly lines. This armor is our only mobility and they surely make a nice target for the panzers. We're still too weak to send our tank corps head to head with a german panzer stack.



Battle 3 -
This was ara's biggest mistake of the turn. The 93rd ID was attempting to encircle the russian RD to the SE (the empty level 2 fort). The russians turned the tables and advanced to cut off the 93rd ID. We knew that we would not be able to hold the encirclement against counter attacks next turn. So we took the next best thing which was to route the unit. The losses were pretty laughable for routing only 4% losses but we will take what we can get. My final tank division was actually involved in the fight as well and she fought well.
Again the tanks ran behind friendly lines scared of the tempting targets they were.




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Post #: 225
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 1:58:47 AM   
bwheatley

 

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One difference we're going to do for our aar for 42 is have objectives.
42 it will be axis objectives. In 43 it will be joint objectives and in 44+ it will be soviet objectives.


For 42 the objective cities are
Ivanovo
Tamboy
Grozny
Stalingrad

We have a neutral third party that knows the number i gave each city. Ara is going to tell the 3rd party two numbers. The the 3rd party will let ara know what two objectives he can pick from for 42. I won't know what his objective is going to be at first. If he manages to capture the objective and hold it then at the end of the game we'll give him a VP bonus. We both talked about the 42 objectives first and agreed on them. It will add a bit of roleplay into the mix.

Here is to hoping ara picks grozny or stalingrad.



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Post #: 226
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 2:05:20 AM   
bwheatley

 

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T49

Rzhev
Some units are moved for R&R (pic typo...lone jager division)


Battle
The 11th army lays a smackdown onto a german division.


So far the clear turns have been full of slow attacks with just german infantry. The panzers have stayed located by stalino in the south. there are a few panzer divisions near rzhev though. I'm sure waiting to attempt an encirclement.

This time we have the luxury of trying a defense in depth. More of our units around moscow are actually strong enough to be able to potentially put a hurting on an overexposed panzer division.

< Message edited by bwheatley -- 2/9/2012 2:11:12 AM >


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Post #: 227
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 2:09:35 AM   
bwheatley

 

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T51

OOB


Production
We've finally got a small surplus of arm points. This too shall evaporate i'm sure.


Losses


Crimea
The first turn of june i build my first 6 rifle corps. They are probably going to be the only ones i built until 43. As you can see they are being used to help fortify the approaches to the kerch strait.


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Post #: 228
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 2:34:03 AM   
randallw

 

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Tullis would give you a big hug for defending so deep.

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Post #: 229
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 2:41:31 AM   
randallw

 

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You could have used some APs to change the unit HQs so you wouldn't have to pay that 30% penalty on the tank corps attack....but I suppose you are reserving them ( APs ) for tank corps building and other needs.

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Post #: 230
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 3:00:17 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

You could have used some APs to change the unit HQs so you wouldn't have to pay that 30% penalty on the tank corps attack....but I suppose you are reserving them ( APs ) for tank corps building and other needs.


Well last turn i got voronezh front and was able to assign two armies off to that front. Thankfully both leaders made their rolls so it cost me 27*2 instead of 55*2. That helped get some things a little better on the CP front. I knew the 18CP change was coming down the pipe but still it was a pain.

LOL why would tullis enjoy my defense in depth? :) I can't afford to have any big encirclements like i did in 1941. I'm still not going to run away but i'm not going to let my guys get cut off without putting up a fight. My army can't really go toe to toe with him but i'll be in a position to do some hit and runs.

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Post #: 231
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 3:09:41 AM   
randallw

 

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Tullis loves the multiple defense lines.

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Post #: 232
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 3:48:55 AM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Tullis loves the multiple defense lines.


lol as a german crushing them?? or as a russian who tries to put up a realistic fight.

:)

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Post #: 233
RE: T9 - 2/9/2012 5:42:38 AM   
randallw

 

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He does them as the Soviet side, trying to create them as history did.

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Post #: 234
RE: T9 - 2/11/2012 1:39:19 PM   
bwheatley

 

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The 42 offensive starts this turn so we'll see what ara's objective for 42 will be in the next few turns. Once we know for sure we can rush some of our 4-6 reserves armies there.

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Post #: 235
RE: T9 - 2/13/2012 4:46:34 PM   
bwheatley

 

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Yikes about 40 divisions encircled in the rostov area. :) Every time i open a turn where stuff like that happens i start remembering that i am not a huge fan of IGOUGO games that pretend in 7 days a commander wouldn't make some effort instead of just sitting there. IGOUGO w/o a reaction phase is annoying. It's going to take me a few days to get over it enough to play the turn through. I always finish what i start but some turns take awhile to get over.



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Post #: 236
RE: T9 - 2/13/2012 5:07:49 PM   
Q-Ball


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Can you post a map of the Rostov Area BEFORE you sent that turn? Just curious what the "before" picture looked like.

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Post #: 237
RE: T9 - 2/14/2012 2:11:56 PM   
jzardos


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Yeah, that summer 42 offensive for the axis with the last changes to the fort rules really helps the Germans punch holes and make good pockets.  I lost about 25 div to an initial axis offensive and then another 15 when trying to rescue the trapped units.  Just had to pull back to next line and stretch axis supply lines.  The Soviet army does get much stronger with morale/exp and larger units, but it takes time and I'm not sure exactly what to do until then except pull back.  All the factories should be moved by now, so if you hold Moscow your manpower should be in decent shape.


< Message edited by jzardos -- 2/14/2012 2:12:32 PM >

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Post #: 238
RE: T9 - 2/28/2012 9:59:43 PM   
bwheatley

 

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I'm back to working on the turn. We agreed to a new house rule of keeping at least 1 hex open for the first turn of an encirclement to give the units inside a chance to break out. It's a work around due to how the encirclement code works right now. I'd call it broken but there are reasons it is the way it is. So to compensate for this turn ara will open up a hole next turn and allow me to get supply then try to break out. Hopefully i'll get aa few units out of the maelstrom. I will also be honoring the agreement when the time comes for me to begin my thrashing of the germans. I did have 6 tank corps inside the encirclement and they came out of reserve and fought off two panzer attacks.

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Post #: 239
RE: T9 - 2/29/2012 12:07:02 AM   
gingerbread


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Has the Rifle squad upgrade hit you yet? It will consume in the order of 1M ARM.

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Post #: 240
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