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RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18

 
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RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/10/2011 7:58:09 PM   
Krec


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Great Job Guys . Luv the game . Great support!!

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(in reply to Zemke_4)
Post #: 31
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/10/2011 10:56:56 PM   
Attack

 

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I agree with the patch. Thanks, soon the game will be perfect!

I´ve a doubt:  If a isolated unit is air suplied, without to have an airport, will be in air supplied-beached mode?

(in reply to Zemke_4)
Post #: 32
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/10/2011 11:15:19 PM   
Helpless


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quote:

If a isolated unit is air suplied, without to have an airport, will be in air supplied-beached mode?


No

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(in reply to Attack)
Post #: 33
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/11/2011 4:13:29 AM   
jzardos


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Is this a bug or am I missing a rule why Cavalry Corps are starting to disband? Where are they going and why?





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(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 34
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/11/2011 9:13:44 AM   
jzardos


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Think these are HQs, so no big deal. Would be nice to just see 'HQ' on it in the text to know for sure.

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Post #: 35
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 5:59:11 AM   
Hermann

 

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is this normal ? attacks are now disabled for the rest of the turn





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Post #: 36
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 7:59:29 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

is this normal ? attacks are now disabled for the rest of the turn


No, this is not normal. Personally I can't replicate it, but if you can - please post a bug report.

Thanks.

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Post #: 37
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 8:07:34 AM   
Hermann

 

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start a scenorio as russian. go to commanders screen/air units and set all forces to night missions - yes. then go to the attack unit button. set the night/day button to night and attack any unit. it will replicate.
This is the 1044 campaign in both examples




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< Message edited by Hermann -- 9/12/2011 8:16:10 AM >

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 38
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 8:16:13 AM   
Helpless


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It does, but I misunderstand your statement about the "attacks are now disabled for the rest of the turn". I still can run eligible attacks. 1000 plane strike in the night is absolutely abnormal.

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(in reply to Hermann)
Post #: 39
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 8:18:48 AM   
Hermann

 

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try another night attack - impossible even if you hit once south and once north very wierd. you may be able to do day strikes if you reset in the command to day mmissions but very odd stuff here

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Post #: 40
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 8:26:41 AM   
Helpless


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Since the automatic night strikes (manual works fine) are broken right now - i.e. all eligible planes participate. You can only choose missions which can run more then once for the group. These groups which didn't log any miles can't fly any kind of strike mission for other reasons, eg. frozen base.


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Post #: 41
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 9:40:16 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Since the automatic night strikes (manual works fine) are broken right now - i.e. all eligible planes participate. You can only choose missions which can run more then once for the group. These groups which didn't log any miles can't fly any kind of strike mission for other reasons, eg. frozen base.



Hermann,

I think this bolded section is the crux of the problem (as far as I understand what you're saying). Bomb Unit, the mission that you flew, can only be performed by air groups that have not logged any miles in the turn. Thus, once you've done the attack, none of the bombers that flew the mission may participate in any other Bomb Unit missions. They may still be used for some other missions (e.g., Bomb Airbase, Ground Support).

If you select a different Air Army's airbase, you should be able to launch another Bomb Unit mission, provided that there are air groups within that Air Army that still have 0% miles logged.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 42
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 10:47:16 AM   
cherryfunk

 

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So basically, if you want to bomb a unit you should always manually select your attacking squadrons.


(in reply to JAMiAM)
Post #: 43
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 11:28:28 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

So basically, if you want to bomb a unit you should always manually select your attacking squadrons.


If you do night strike in 1.05.18 you need to make it manually till we get out the fix. Day bombing can be done in auto mode.

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Post #: 44
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 2:27:46 PM   
Industrial


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Interesting changes, might have to try these out. Last time I played a game was with patch 1.03, only playing the AI so far.
One thing I noticed back then was how easy it was to stall the Axis AI and counterattack early in 41/42.

I had a look at some of the historical reinforcement figures and compared them with the in game numbers.
Here are some soviet drafting/casualty numbers I've found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the_Soviet_Union

According to those numbers (29,5 Million man drafted) the game produces roughly those numbers when the soviet player manages to hold on to approx. 3000 manpower resources throughout the war... so, seems plausible.

Here are the numbers for the germans I found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Military_Casualties_by_branch_of_service
They had roughly 17 Million ground + Luftwaffe units (+ unknown numbers of Volkssturm + Soviet citizens in German military service), minus the 3,2 Million they start with and the losses from earlier campaigns + troops that fought in other theaters (according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Front_(World_War_II) : 1,5 Million from 1944-45), so, maybe 12-13 Million served at the eastern front all together. To reach these numbers the germans would require 9-10 Million reserves from their manpower pool while the game is only giving them (with an estimated hold of 3800 manpower sources throughout the game) 5,9 Million.

Whats more, the first source I quoted is putting 10 Mio of the drafted 30 Mio soviets into: "Discharged during war-Includes those sent on sick leave, those sent to industry, NKVD or foreign units and 437,000 imprisoned after sentencing", which is an important point to remember. Factories require workers, not every drafted man was send to the frontline, in that sense the soviet reinforcements seems excessive. And the germans? Used roughly 12-15 million slave labor from occupied countries, so most of their drafted numbers did indeed serve in the army. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rule_during_World_War_II)

Maybe the reinforcement numbers could need a little tweaking?

Something else: In my game vs the Axis AI I noticed that the germans at one point had 1 Mio Manpower in their reinforcement pool but couldn't use them (most units were at TOE < 30% at that time). The reason was an empty armament pool. I see that the latest patch is correcting this somewhat, but these numbers ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)#Industrial_output ) suggest that the german industry should have even greater potential than the soviets, they just weren't using it for an all out war production until late in the war. But, being starved of armaments so that conscripts can't even be armed with sidearms seems a little excessive.

My 0,02 Euro for today

< Message edited by Industrial -- 9/12/2011 2:29:36 PM >


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(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 45
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 4:45:04 PM   
marty_01

 

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I just started another GC41-45 PBEM -- I'm playing the Soviets. The first thing I checked when I got my first turn file from my opponent were my air losses. He pretty much schwacked the living poop out of everything I had that was in range of the Luftwaffe. I lost about 4800 aircraft on the ground and another 300+ operational losses. That's well within the range of historical losses suffered by the Red Air Force in the first week of Barbarossa.





quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleBen

It's quite amuzing ! I don't say that it's impossible to get 5 000 losses in 1.05, perhaps a better player than me could achieve this in a second! Not the problem. The fact is that I'm the same player, wether I play 1.04 or 1.05, I'm doing the same movement, the same "great" moves or the same "silly" ones ! And in one case I could easily achieve 5000 losses, in the other ones the best I could get is 3000 ! So there's a difference ! Perhaps this is for a good reason, and has a "ground", but don't tell me that the same, as I could easily see that's not the case !

If you prefer, let the AI play the first german turn with 1.04 and with 1.05, and you will see the same difference...quite 1 for 2...

My purpose is not to "claim" about the game or the patch. I love the game, and I'm enjoyed on your work for the future of it, but here, there's something I would just like to understand.

PS :
quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

Btw, one very important point - there was a scenario data corruption bug in 1.04.xx which was corrupting (increasing) air losses statistic. So in realilty losses could be much different.
I found it on another thread...that's should be my answer...


(in reply to LittleBen)
Post #: 46
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 5:04:53 PM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1685
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Industrial

Interesting changes, might have to try these out. Last time I played a game was with patch 1.03, only playing the AI so far.
One thing I noticed back then was how easy it was to stall the Axis AI and counterattack early in 41/42.

I had a look at some of the historical reinforcement figures and compared them with the in game numbers.
Here are some soviet drafting/casualty numbers I've found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the_Soviet_Union

According to those numbers (29,5 Million man drafted) the game produces roughly those numbers when the soviet player manages to hold on to approx. 3000 manpower resources throughout the war... so, seems plausible.

Here are the numbers for the germans I found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Military_Casualties_by_branch_of_service
They had roughly 17 Million ground + Luftwaffe units (+ unknown numbers of Volkssturm + Soviet citizens in German military service), minus the 3,2 Million they start with and the losses from earlier campaigns + troops that fought in other theaters (according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Front_(World_War_II) : 1,5 Million from 1944-45), so, maybe 12-13 Million served at the eastern front all together. To reach these numbers the germans would require 9-10 Million reserves from their manpower pool while the game is only giving them (with an estimated hold of 3800 manpower sources throughout the game) 5,9 Million.

Whats more, the first source I quoted is putting 10 Mio of the drafted 30 Mio soviets into: "Discharged during war-Includes those sent on sick leave, those sent to industry, NKVD or foreign units and 437,000 imprisoned after sentencing", which is an important point to remember. Factories require workers, not every drafted man was send to the frontline, in that sense the soviet reinforcements seems excessive. And the germans? Used roughly 12-15 million slave labor from occupied countries, so most of their drafted numbers did indeed serve in the army. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rule_during_World_War_II)

Maybe the reinforcement numbers could need a little tweaking?

Something else: In my game vs the Axis AI I noticed that the germans at one point had 1 Mio Manpower in their reinforcement pool but couldn't use them (most units were at TOE < 30% at that time). The reason was an empty armament pool. I see that the latest patch is correcting this somewhat, but these numbers ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)#Industrial_output ) suggest that the german industry should have even greater potential than the soviets, they just weren't using it for an all out war production until late in the war. But, being starved of armaments so that conscripts can't even be armed with sidearms seems a little excessive.

My 0,02 Euro for today


In cases like these it is risky to use Wiki as a source... I am not saying you are wrong but I would try to find better sources...

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(in reply to Industrial)
Post #: 47
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 5:56:29 PM   
ETF


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What feature in the new patch will carry over to saved games? Hewi's only I guess?
Thx

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(in reply to Zemke_4)
Post #: 48
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 6:09:39 PM   
Joel Billings


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All features will carry over. Only data changes do not. However, only the Hiwi rules have an adjustment made to account for activity up to that point in the game, whereas the other rules do not attempt to make adjustments.

< Message edited by Joel Billings -- 9/12/2011 6:11:19 PM >


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Post #: 49
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/12/2011 6:48:56 PM   
ETF


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Great to know thanks sir. Yikes so my high level forts will be gone?
Yikes.

Nice patch though

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(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 50
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/13/2011 5:02:39 AM   
Joel Billings


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No, they won't go away as long as you have a unit in the hex.

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Post #: 51
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/13/2011 11:47:38 PM   
ETF


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Right O thanks sir.

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(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 52
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/14/2011 1:34:07 PM   
Rafo

 

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quote:

Here are the numbers for the germans I found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Military_Casualties_by_branch_of_service
They had roughly 17 Million ground + Luftwaffe units (+ unknown numbers of Volkssturm + Soviet citizens in German military service), minus the 3,2 Million they start with and the losses from earlier campaigns + troops that fought in other theaters (according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Front_(World_War_II) : 1,5 Million from 1944-45), so, maybe 12-13 Million served at the eastern front all together. To reach these numbers the germans would require 9-10 Million reserves from their manpower pool while the game is only giving them (with an estimated hold of 3800 manpower sources throughout the game) 5,9 Million.


The Wechmacht don't start Barbarossa with 3,2 million men, the Ostsheer does. In spring 41, there was already more than 7 million german in uniform.

It's the same for the 1,5 million in the west in 44-45 : I am almost sure you only include army unit.

quote:

Whats more, the first source I quoted is putting 10 Mio of the drafted 30 Mio soviets into: "Discharged during war-Includes those sent on sick leave, those sent to industry, NKVD or foreign units and 437,000 imprisoned after sentencing", which is an important point to remember. Factories require workers, not every drafted man was send to the frontline, in that sense the soviet reinforcements seems excessive. And the germans? Used roughly 12-15 million slave labor from occupied countries, so most of their drafted numbers did indeed serve in the army. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rule_during_World_War_II)


The calcul is harder than that.

Germany used a lot of ineffective and starving manpower in agriculture and in various industrial project (not even counting the purely genocide business) that weren't necessary to the Russian. Because of 1/ lend-lease, 2/ not having a 2 front war, 3/ not lacking any kind of raw material (by far the worst pb of the German economy) and 4/ being incredibly harsh with its own people, the economy of Russia needed a loss less manpower to produce the same amount of weapons.

(in reply to ETF)
Post #: 53
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/14/2011 3:04:46 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Seems the AI can´t really handle the changes to the airwar... I´m seeing extremly high losses for the Axis AI compared to the Soviet airforce played by me! Around 2:1 ratio in Axis favour. 

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Post #: 54
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 9/15/2011 1:35:44 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


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Sorry, mistake. Not enough coffee!

< Message edited by PeeDeeAitch -- 9/15/2011 1:36:41 PM >


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Post #: 55
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 11/24/2011 1:29:49 PM   
Hermann

 

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I generally average 4000 easy by setting 20 minimum 80/80 on af attack. I do a turn of night bombing with all units on night mission. i prefer to do 4-5 attacks myself on the bomber bases and the large fighter bases then let the ai go. then i set the planes to day mission this time i hit the big fighter bases and set the ai loose a few times till it stops flying

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Post #: 56
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 11/24/2011 5:08:21 PM   
Flaviusx


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Marty, those numbers are actually grossly in excess of historical losses.

WitE has always exaggerated the effect of the surprise air attack, by a good factor of 2. Not that it matters much...it's just a bunch of obsolete planes.

Funny thing is, even if you skipped the entire surprise air attack, the Red Air Force wouldn't be worth a lot until at least 1942. There's some very nasty stuff coded into it in 1941 that lobotomizes its performance.

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Post #: 57
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 11/24/2011 5:30:37 PM   
heliodorus04


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Marty, those numbers are actually grossly in excess of historical losses.

WitE has always exaggerated the effect of the surprise air attack, by a good factor of 2. Not that it matters much...it's just a bunch of obsolete planes.

Funny thing is, even if you skipped the entire surprise air attack, the Red Air Force wouldn't be worth a lot until at least 1942. There's some very nasty stuff coded into it in 1941 that lobotomizes its performance.


Soviet 1941 air force performance in my game vs. Cannonfodder is greater than historical. Soviet Air Force has parity with Germany in 1941 if you do what CF does.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 58
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 11/24/2011 5:33:18 PM   
Flaviusx


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Helio, the Red Air force does well at CAP in 1941. Everything else, not so much. Ground support in particular is so ineffective in 1941 that I'm planning on setting that to 0% in future games until 1942. It is that bad. Just concentrate on interdiction.

So the Soviet can indeed flood the map with fighters. He can't do much to directly influence the ground battle.

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Post #: 59
RE: New Public Beta Available for WitE v1.05.18 - 11/24/2011 6:32:26 PM   
heliodorus04


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Your wording makes it sound as though you think there's no gameplay issue created by the air war model.
There is.  The downstream consequence of fighters doing better than historically leads to a Luftwaffe with fewer aircraft earlier.  It is one of many places where the game double-penalizes Germany.  The first hit is in 1941, with your bombers being shot down and thus performing less effectively than if you had those bombers for support. The second is thereafter when the downstream consequence reaches critical mass, which will accelerate Germany's mechanically hard-coded demise faster than a German player might otherwise be able to mitigate through his strategies.



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Post #: 60
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