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RE: Axis turn 1 step by step

 
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RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/7/2011 11:26:34 PM   
Klydon

 

Posts: 1878
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		If you don't take Riga on turn 1 with panzer forces, you are essentially leaving it for infantry to do the job and it would likely be turn 3 before they would be in position to get the job done between trying to either cross a major river in swamps or trying to get up close enough to attack across a major river into a city. Either way, it is a serious delay imposed on your infantry to deal with Riga imo.

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Post #: 31
RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 2:57:38 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 17300
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		On our way to making the 18th Army useful to the advance the XXXVIII Corps has only 1 division, the 58th Division and it's going to make a hole for the tank unit passing south of the proposed pocket.




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RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 3:37:43 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 17300
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		All that's left to deploy in the 18th Army is I Corps. One of I Corps's Divisions is already moved forward so the other two divisions will move east to try to open a hole for the tanks to head through going NorthEast.




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RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 4:14:51 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 17300
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		And the next thing to do is to move the 269th Inf Div to continue making a hole and advancing to the east. Midway in the moving I assigned the 269th to X Corps because it's an Inf Div and can't keep up with the tanks and motorized units.




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 9/8/2011 4:16:39 AM >

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RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 4:36:16 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 17300
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		It's time to send the 36th Motorized on a long recon to clear a path and provide some backup at Riga for the attack that we hope will empty the city. The 36th will stop adjacent to Riga and await the arrival of a tank unit to attack Riga.




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RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 5:06:49 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 17300
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		And the next thing to do is move out a tank toward Riga. It runs out of MP's just before reaching Riga:




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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 9/8/2011 5:07:20 AM >

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RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 5:37:02 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 17300
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		And now we send the HQ unit and the other tank of the Corps to help out storming Riga:




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RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 7:51:47 AM   
Jakerson

 

Posts: 506
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

If you don't take Riga on turn 1 with panzer forces, you are essentially leaving it for infantry to do the job and it would likely be turn 3 before they would be in position to get the job done between trying to either cross a major river in swamps or trying to get up close enough to attack across a major river into a city. Either way, it is a serious delay imposed on your infantry to deal with Riga imo.


If Riga is not captured at turn one and Soviet player is nasty he can leave 3 rifle divisions inside Riga when they fortify a bit and get all urban defense bonuses they can tie up pretty large amount of German troops. German needs to deliberate attack with multiple stacks to get Riga. This buys Soviet side 1 or 2 more turns to build up defenses witch are very important at game opening.

As Riga is port hex urban it cannot be isolated and always gets Sea supply so German is forced to take it with frontal assault. Even if Soviet units are forced to route they have high chance of escaping Trough Sea.

Even if German bypass Riga after seeing it heavily defended Soviet player can still evacuate his troops trough sea at any turn they want but holding Riga will cause harm to German logistics and Soviet side still gets benefit from holding Riga as it harass German logistics.


< Message edited by Jakerson -- 9/8/2011 7:53:39 AM >

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RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 8:47:01 AM   
Attack

 

Posts: 81
Joined: 10/4/2006
Status: offline 		IMHO, you must no to send the motorized forces till near Riga. You´ll need them, in regiments, to secure the supply line of Pzs. Some of the routed units can reagrup and then your pzs can be cut off (of course, if you´re not using Riga gambit, that is a gamey and usually the PBEM players agree not use it). 

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Post #: 39
RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 10:17:22 AM   
Powloon

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 10/12/2006
Status: offline 		I'm no expert by any means but as you stand now if you are planning to attack Riga you will be attacking across the Daugava (major river) into an urban hex I wouldn't bet on your chances of pulling that off.

Your western most tank corps has enough movement points to cross the river and attack Riga from the east (which is a clear hex) with both panzer divisions. I normally assign pioneers and air support to the assaulting panzer division(s) and even then it is not a sure thing.

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Post #: 40
RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 12:57:22 PM   
sajer

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 7/4/2011
Status: offline 		As far as Riga goes - I usually send a PZ Corps to cross the Daugava and then send the other to take or at least cut Riga off from rail supply altogether.  This is done by cutting off the rail line to the East by a Pz Div.  I have played the AGN ALOT "Road to Leningrad" as a learning tool - and it it not a sure thing at all that Riga can be taken on Turn 1.  In my estimation you have about a 70% chance. The large rivers make it an adventure. I don't like my Panzers or Motorized troops taking lots of casualties on turn 1.

What I usually do is isolate it and then cut off all the units in the pocket by taking the rail line to the East of Riga and to the west of it. Then make sure I take ALL the ports on the West side.  I accomplish this by using the  unattached SS Motorized Div to get to Ventspils and take it.  This it will do easily by hasty attack.  This cuts off all supply to the pocket and the Soviet Divisions in the pocket are totally isolated.  I don't care how talented you are - you will not get an infantry div. as far as Ventspils.  I am only interested in Riga on the first turn - insofar as isolating it.  If I take it - that is a bonus.

Besides the RR unit will not get there till turn 3 anyway.  Of course you can trace supply - some at least.  But my main concern is getting two PZ corps to the Pskov area ASAP.  They will be able to do this on internal supply - then can be supplied by air at end of turn 2.

The 18th Army can sweep up the remaining isolated units in the Baltic Pocket and the SS Div. can help in taking Riga on turn 2.  I have the 16th Army bull rush Kaunus and take it - despite some casualties.

On turn 2 I am heading to Pskov.  Not only with my Panzers but with the 16 Army - like a dog on a leash.  Pskov becomes a BIG thorn in your side if you are not there on turn 2.  It gets built up real fast.  THAT should be the main objective. 

The 18th Army I send towards Talinnin and along the Baltic Coast.  I also use at least one Division (or brigade) to take Kurrasare.

I don't use the Riga gambit - I consider it gamey - and a hole in the rules.  Does it make sense that Riga's port would be that intact after one week to transport that many men?  Thank God 1.05 does away with this.

Anyway that's how I do it.  Everyone has an opinion or strategy - this is only mine....

< Message edited by sajer -- 9/8/2011 1:07:43 PM >

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Post #: 41
RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 2:58:14 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1281
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		An experienced german player can have armor across the Daugava from Riga to Daugavpils solidly without having to break them down into regiment nor risk them getting isolated or pockets opened. The mechanics of the game, the ability of the Soviets to fortify Riga and slow down rail repair make such things as the panzer attacks on Riga fairly important on turn 1.

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

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Post #: 42
RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 3:44:41 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5293
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I agree on Riga, though I approach it differently from Larry.

You can get 2 Panzer Divisions accross the Daugvina 2 hexes east of Riga, then circle back and hasty attack from the rear. The advantage is that you aren't attacking accross the river. If you Hasty attack with 2 Panzer Divisions, I think that attack will work every time, no matter what the rolls. It also converts a few more hexes to the east, and gets you closer to Pskov.

I also agree that you must take all the ports up to Riga; the first one can be cleared with Infantry, but you probably need to use the SS to clear the northern most one. That's what I do anyway.

The real decision is to what extent you try to surround forces, vs. rout them and keep moving.

The other real decision to me is how much to send south of the pripet to AGS, but that's several pages ahead at this point

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Post #: 43
RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/8/2011 10:49:35 PM   
Klydon

 

Posts: 1878
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		I used to use the SS division to clear the northern port, but it leaves an elite moral unit badly behind for turn two moves. I started using a motorized infantry division and it seems to work just fine as well.

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Post #: 44
RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/9/2011 2:41:50 AM   
pipewrench


Posts: 446
Joined: 1/5/2010
Status: offline 		smile Larry, put on the blinders on and let the backseat drivers talk to each other.  ;)

Nice push on the port by the way.

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Post #: 45
RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/9/2011 3:58:21 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 17300
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		Hey you guys......I just upgraded to the 1.05.18 beta version just now So I'm going to discontinue this thread and re-start the game under the new rules ( 1.05 ) and start an AAR describing what I consider to be the opening moves for the Axis.  Let's take this conversation there and continue please.  These conversations are golden to a virgin Axis-PBEM player ( like me ) and I'm considering everyone's viewpoint I promise. 

Click here to go to the AAR I started.

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Post #: 46
RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/9/2011 3:06:08 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 5293
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

I used to use the SS division to clear the northern port, but it leaves an elite moral unit badly behind for turn two moves. I started using a motorized infantry division and it seems to work just fine as well.


THis is true, and I can see the benefit to using a Mot Div, and putting the SS Division further up front.

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Post #: 47
RE: Axis turn 1 step by step - 9/9/2011 3:58:08 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


Posts: 1281
Joined: 1/1/2007
From: Laramie, Wyoming
Status: offline 		If done properly the SS division does not have to be too far out of place, nor unable to help out on turn 2. It should only attack the northern port, then cut across toward Riga. After pockets are cleared turn 2, it can easily help out - provided it has the movement (both fuel and perhaps harder to fudge, command...)

_____________________________

"The torment of precautions often exceeds the dangers to be avoided. It is sometimes better to abandon one's self to destiny."

- Call me PDH

- WitE noob tester

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 48
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