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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J)

 
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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/16/2014 4:04:17 PM   
koniu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Do you have Ki-94? That will be much more useful if you can get it. The stats are as good as most Allied fighters at that time and it's 'only' service 3 compared to 5 for the jets.


My R&D plan was to work only on `45 planes max.
So i don`t R&D Ki-94 and also after B6N1 upgrade to N2 i end Nakajima Ha-44 production.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/16/2014 4:29:14 PM   
JocMeister

 

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I wouldn´t bother with Jets. You are going to fly one mission and them have them repairing for two weeks. SR 5 is brutal.


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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/17/2014 4:35:06 AM   
koniu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I wouldn´t bother with Jets. You are going to fly one mission and them have them repairing for two weeks. SR 5 is brutal.




SR5 can be PITA. I will stay with conventional planes. I rather have in air 100 Franks, Shindens, Sams and Ki-83s than 100 Ki-201 stuck on ground.

@obvert
I think it is to late to go fro Ki-94. It is best Japanese Army conventional fighter but not much better from Ki-83. I invest to much in Ki-83 so i rather save that supply to give my boys something to eat. Ki-83 is 2x more expensive from Ki-94 but i think i will have biiger problems with supples that with HI in that stage of war.

EDIT: Still no turn. Probably not until tomorrow. I think next day are going to be hard for Docup.
If i remember correctly Japan so far sunk 12 Allied CV and 4 CVL. It is something like ~35% of CV/CVL carrier force Allies have during war.



< Message edited by koniu -- 1/17/2014 6:01:16 AM >


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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/17/2014 6:23:09 AM   
koniu

 

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I thinking about restarting BB Musashi. But i need to look how long it will take. I only few months i think i will build it.



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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/17/2014 3:09:23 PM   
koniu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

I thinking about restarting BB Musashi. But i need to look how long it will take. I only few months i think i will build it.


After checking numbers i decide to not build Musashi. 358 day to complete at normal speed, so 250000 HI. I don`t even try to think about acceleration - 180 days and 750000 HI


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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/17/2014 6:24:46 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

I thinking about restarting BB Musashi. But i need to look how long it will take. I only few months i think i will build it.


After checking numbers i decide to not build Musashi. 358 day to complete at normal speed, so 250000 HI. I don`t even try to think about acceleration - 180 days and 750000 HI


I still would not do it. It's not the HI but the fuel use once it's in there, as compared to it's worth. maybe you can get something out of it, but these behemoths seem too costly in use and not effective enough to justify it, but also once damaged take another year to be repaired. So you might pay at this point 250,000 HI for one or two battles with that ship.

I'd rather have Shinano at this point in the war.

< Message edited by obvert -- 1/17/2014 7:25:52 PM >


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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/17/2014 6:55:51 PM   
koniu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

I thinking about restarting BB Musashi. But i need to look how long it will take. I only few months i think i will build it.


After checking numbers i decide to not build Musashi. 358 day to complete at normal speed, so 250000 HI. I don`t even try to think about acceleration - 180 days and 750000 HI


I still would not do it. It's not the HI but the fuel use once it's in there, as compared to it's worth. maybe you can get something out of it, but these behemoths seem too costly in use and not effective enough to justify it, but also once damaged take another year to be repaired. So you might pay at this point 250,000 HI for one or two battles with that ship.

I'd rather have Shinano at this point in the war.

Not worth of trying. Even accelerated i will take 538 days to build Shinano and 1076 at normal speed.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/18/2014 7:14:05 AM   
koniu

 

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22 December 1943

Finally Turn arrive
Only actions in DEI

CV Junyo sunk.

Carriers safely survive day but they where forced by enemy SAGs to retreat to Ambon. Lucky BB SAG manage to screen carriers sinking in process two enemy CAs and DD. Sadly they don`t manage to intercept enemy carriers or landing forces. Also Saumlaki fall.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Saumlaki at 77,115, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei
BB Ise
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 1
DD Shimakaze
DD Hatsukaze
DD Natsushio
DD Yukikaze

Allied Ships
DD Ward, Shell hits 9, and is sunk

-----------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Saumlaki at 77,115, Range 9,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
SOC-1 Seagull: 2 destroyed
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 2 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei, Shell hits 2
BB Ise, Shell hits 3
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 3
DD Shimakaze, Shell hits 1
DD Hatsukaze
DD Natsushio, Shell hits 1
DD Yukikaze

Allied Ships
CA Minneapolis, Shell hits 16, and is sunk
CA Wichita, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
DD Laffey
DD Welles, Shell hits 1
DD Hobby
DD Meade, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Tucker


-------------------------------------
Ground combat at Saumlaki (78,117)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 14076 troops, 171 guns, 419 vehicles, Assault Value = 591

Defending force 3764 troops, 26 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 121

Allied adjusted assault: 155

Japanese adjusted defense: 19

Allied assault odds: 8 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Saumlaki !!!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 9 destroyed CV Junyo planes that stuck on damaged AF
D4Y3 Judy: 7 destroyed
B6N2 Jill: 8 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), morale(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1038 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 57 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 41 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 11 (9 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
132 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled

Assaulting units:
2/8th Armoured Regiment
I Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
754th Tank Battalion
1st Australian Division
7th Marine Defense Battalion
46th Construction Regiment
226th USN Base Force
17th NZ AA Bde

Defending units:
41st Infantry Regiment
40th JAAF AF Bn



< Message edited by koniu -- 1/18/2014 8:14:30 AM >


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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/18/2014 9:02:25 AM   
koniu

 

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Some numbers





Attachment (1)

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/18/2014 9:41:15 AM   
JocMeister

 

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Is your chart adjusted for DOCUPs losses?

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/18/2014 9:50:22 AM   
koniu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Is your chart adjusted for DOCUPs losses?

Yes it is. Loses are at 22 December 43. But ships in service numbers have also ships that will arrive in next 8 days so on 31 December

When we reach 31 December i will do major report about everything, economy, loses, maps etc.

< Message edited by koniu -- 1/18/2014 11:00:37 AM >


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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/19/2014 8:31:35 AM   
koniu

 

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23 December 1943

Burma
Docup is moving troops everywhere i look. I was reckoning yellow road West of Kunming (China). hex 63,49 is showing 3 units (usa or british colors) marching West trough jungle. I have IR resting in area. I will have to check what those units are. Reckon shows 4k men, 3 guns and 90 vehicles. Need some some more reckon

Battle in hex south of Tuang Gyi. Docup bring reinforcements last turn today he attack. My boys hold. It look that major force in here is build on Chinese super Divisions. One of them was decimated today. Losing 6000 man and AV go down to 200 from 800

Ground combat at 58,49 (near Taung Gyi)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 61697 troops, 551 guns, 845 vehicles, Assault Value = 2657

Defending force 28370 troops, 321 guns, 192 vehicles, Assault Value = 977

Allied adjusted assault: 1174

Japanese adjusted defense: 2935

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
743 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 61 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Vehicles lost 21 (1 destroyed, 20 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
6682 casualties reported
Squads: 36 destroyed, 577 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 57 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 18 disabled
Vehicles lost 25 (2 destroyed, 23 disabled)

Assaulting units:
5th Chinese Corps
26th Indian Division
150th RAC Regiment
255th Armoured Brigade
6th Australian Division
6th Chinese Corps
77th Heavy AA Regiment
14th Indian Light AA Regiment

Defending units:
20th Division
18th Division
2nd Tank Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
8th RF Gun Battalion


Saumlaki
Quiet. 4 PB4Y shot down over Ambon. I manage to refuel carriers still need refuel and rearm BBs. I will need start bombing Saumlaki soon. Maybe in next 48h.

KB
splited in 3.
Carrier Div 1: 4xCV, 5 CVL (400 planes) will stay in Ambon area and will look bigger that it is

Carrier Div 2: 8xCV (600 planes) manage to sneak undetected north toward Pacific. will sail toward Marshals to restore order there.

Carrier Div 3: 2xCV 1xCVL (150 planes) sailing toward Singapore for repairs. Air groups will stay in Ambon area.

Sunk Ships.
Another enemy ships sunk last turn. I heard sinking sound but not know what ship it was.

R&D
Ki-84r advance 3/44 - will enter production in middle of January



< Message edited by koniu -- 1/19/2014 9:32:03 AM >


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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/19/2014 8:44:34 AM   
JocMeister

 

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I have forgotten. Do you have any altitude HR?

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/19/2014 8:53:15 AM   
koniu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

I have forgotten. Do you have any altitude HR?


- Fighters max on second best altitude band (Offensive and defensive missions)
- 4E bombers 10k of higher
- Navy 4E can go below 10k if on naval attack mission to simulate skip bombing

< Message edited by koniu -- 1/19/2014 9:53:48 AM >


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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/19/2014 9:56:05 AM   
JocMeister

 

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You are going to like the "R" version then. Only thing DOCUP can get up there are P47s and Hellcats.

Erik and I did away with our HR and set a max alt of all planes to 32k. I think the airwar became a lot better after that. Less extreme. But Erik might have a different view on it though!

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/19/2014 11:16:48 AM   
obvert


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No, I like it this way. Less to think about each turn as well, which planes can and can't fly up there. It lets the maneuver and climb rates be factors at the high level as well as the speed if everyone starts off at the same place.



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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/19/2014 3:09:09 PM   
koniu

 

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I don`t tell NO to future change to that HR.
But at moment we are right now for at lest short time i want weapon that can do starto sweeps. Maye in 6 or 9 months from now we will change that.

I agree with HR You have. 2nd band rule make air combat very often one sided. You have altitude You win. Specially in missions like LCAP or in places when You dont have radar to be able to climb above sweep.

With rule You have things like plane speed, climb rate and maneuverability have some bigger impact. Also pilot quality is more important.



Now little of topic
I ask Docup a question:
"Wonder how long USA government would wait to tell public opinion about that battle if it happen during real war? What they would tell and what will be keep in secret?" Waiting for answers

< Message edited by koniu -- 1/19/2014 4:10:31 PM >


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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/20/2014 4:33:34 PM   
koniu

 

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Quote from different threat

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Get the Nick Id as it can be used to 'upgrade' FB to NF just when you'll start to need them. Starting early on the Randy Ic is a good idea too. For IJN sadly the Irving Sa with radar is about the best, and it's not so great. Denko is just too late.


I have question what FB units can upgrade to Nick Id. I currently have couple FB units and none of them can upgrade to Nick Id. I check it manually.
Maybe those are FB units that will arrive in `44.

Currently i have only 2 fighter, 2 reckon and one LB unit that can upgrade to Nick Id.
Maybe if i upgrade some of bomber groups to FB, Nick Id path will open?



24 December 1943

Ambon
Navy refueled. I have luck today. AO TF sailing toward Soerobaja was attacked by strafing bombers. Lucky only 0.50cal hits, no bombs.

Sinking sound at night phase.
Game and Tracker are showing 5th carriers sunk in last battle
CV Interpid (FoW?) sunk 12/24/43 location 77,123 near Bathurst Island, Scuttled

If anything sunk it must be CV Bunker Hill (Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage) only one damage enough to be in sinking condition or maybe one more CVL goes down but those that survive take light damage.


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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/20/2014 10:18:07 PM   
obvert


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Posted screens in mine, but it's the 4th and 5th Sentai that upgrade to the Nick Id.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/21/2014 7:10:55 PM   
koniu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Sinking sound at night phase.
Game and Tracker are showing 5th carriers sunk in last battle
CV Interpid (FoW?) sunk 12/24/43 location 77,123 near Bathurst Island, Scuttled

If anything sunk it must be CV Bunker Hill (Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage) only one damage enough to be in sinking condition or maybe one more CVL goes down but those that survive take light damage.



I finally manage ti find time to do turn.
As bonus to last report about probable sinking of another CV/CVL i give that picture.
We all know what that usually mean






Attachment (1)

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/22/2014 4:00:15 PM   
koniu

 

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25 December `43

Allies sweep Taung Gyi.
Japan lost 82 planes (28 pilots) for 31 enemy planes(P-47, P-38, F4U and Spit VIII). No bombers. Two groups send to Rangoon to rest(should back to combat in 3 days) and where replaced with fresh units. Tomorrow 200 fighters will wait for another wave.

With proper rotation i should be able to hold for few days. I have 650 fighters in Burma.
As long as i keep below 3:1 against his best planes it is good.

Result should be better but Docup was using LCAP with at lest 25 maybe 50 P-47.
Somewhere deep i have mixed feeling with use LCAP as offensive weapon.




< Message edited by koniu -- 1/22/2014 5:01:43 PM >


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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/22/2014 4:05:31 PM   
JocMeister

 

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Regarding LRCAP you kind of have to.

Sweeping with a 25 plane unit against a 500 plane CAP isn´t a very good idea.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/22/2014 4:13:38 PM   
koniu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Regarding LRCAP you kind of have to.

Sweeping with a 25 plane unit against a 500 plane CAP isn´t a very good idea.


There is solution. Don`t sweep at all.

And seriously. I will not fight for another HR or something. I just don`t like it.
Plus I have no base on map that have CAP bigger that 200 planes (except Rabaul 400)

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/22/2014 4:31:45 PM   
JocMeister

 

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You will have soon enough!

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/22/2014 4:56:29 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Regarding LRCAP you kind of have to.

Sweeping with a 25 plane unit against a 500 plane CAP isn´t a very good idea.


Not true. You did it quite effectively with P-47s for a year before you used LR CAP again at Luzon. It works fine if you use your best planes and pilots only from the max altitude.

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/22/2014 5:04:04 PM   
koniu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

You will have soon enough!


I see reinforcement plus groups will resize to 49 size so i will have soon.

As to last battle.
I have 180 planes in Taung Gyi but only something like 120 participated. I think i made mistake setting high 60% CAP plus because deficit of Air support i have many plans siting in AF waiting to refuel. Tomorrow i will try 40 or 50% CAP. I should have lees planes in air for first wave but later more planes will scramble.

Also i again notice strange radar behavior JocMeister reported. For every sweep radar detect enemy raid but time to target was always between 2-8 minutes. No time to get above sweep not telling about scramble planes.




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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/23/2014 3:13:00 PM   
koniu

 

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26 December 1943

Burma
Quiet. No sweeps today

DEI
Allied subs sunk AK, and damage another one. Escort manage to sunk sub.
They also hit two 8k tons AOs. One will sunk tomorrow. Second have some chances. I have 50k of fuel sailing to Ambon i delaying it by two days to add some heavy ASW escort.

Naval search

I lost in last two days ~20 G3M3 and G4M1 flying naval search all over map. I need to adjust my search arcs to avoid bases with heavy CAP

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/24/2014 4:44:30 PM   
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Report will be later. I have no time right now. But i have question.

Docup have some TFs in Babar. Some cruisers and DDs. I want to send SAG to intercept them in night phase. I have two Kongos BB and two CA in range. Should i split it in two TFs, first with BB second with CA, or send them as single TF. What will work better. Moon is low 3%.

koniu

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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/24/2014 6:20:34 PM   
obvert


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I'd say two TFs each with 3-4 DDs in them. Float planes on night search and day search. I'd only keep react at 1-2 though so they don't hang around in the day.

< Message edited by obvert -- 1/24/2014 7:21:35 PM >


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RE: Docup (A) vs Koniu (J) - 1/26/2014 9:22:57 AM   
koniu

 

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27-28 December 1943

Banda Sea
We have to days of air and surface battles. I think I can call that small Japanese victory. Japan lost DD and 15 planes. Allies at lest 1 Fletcher DD, Damaged CL plus at least 3 damaged Fletcher's stuck in Ambon hex surrounded by 4BB, 4CA and 15 destroyers. I will try to sunk them tommarow

I sweep Saumlaki I shot down ~40 enemy planes (~10 F4U, 11 F6F, and some Kittyhawks) for 8 N1K2
Unlucky Level bombers don`t fly to plaster Saumlaki AF

Night Time Surface Combat, near Babar at 76,117, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Tone, Shell hits 1
CA Ashigara, Shell hits 1
DD Urakaze
DD Natsugumo
DD Minegumo
DD Arare, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
CL Achilles, Shell hits 8, on fire
DD Bailey
DD Baldwin
-------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Damar at 76,113, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Tone
CA Atago, Shell hits 1
CA Haguro, Shell hits 2
CA Ashigara
DD Asashimo, Shell hits 1
DD Hayashimo, Shell hits 4
DD Akishimo, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Maikaze, Shell hits 5, on fire

Allied Ships
DD Abbot
DD Ammen
DD Aulick, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Bache
DD Beale
DD Boyd, Shell hits 1
DD Braine
DD Conway
DD Kidd, Shell hits 2
DD Ringgold
-------------------------------------------------

Day Time Surface Combat, near Ambon at 77,110, Range 29,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 2
BB Hiei
DD Sawakaze, Shell hits 1
DD Shiokaze, Shell hits 1
DD Yakaze, Shell hits 3
DD Nokaze

Allied Ships
DD Abbot
DD Ammen
DD Bache, Shell hits 1
DD Beale, Shell hits 1
DD Braine
DD Conway, Shell hits 3
-------------------------------------------------

Day Time Surface Combat, near Ambon at 76,109, Range 30,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Ise
BB Hyuga
DD Amatsukaze
DD Tokitsukaze
DD Hagikaze
DD Kikuzuki
DD Yuzuki

Allied Ships
DD Abbot
DD Ammen
DD Aulick, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Bache
DD Beale
DD Boyd, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Braine
DD Conway
DD Kidd
DD Ringgold
-------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Saumlaki , at 78,117

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 33,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 33

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Ic x 5
Beaufighter VIc x 7
Kittyhawk III x 16
F4U-1 Corsair x 21
F6F-3 Hellcat x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter Ic: 3 destroyed
Beaufighter VIc: 3 destroyed
Kittyhawk III: 5 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed
-------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Saumlaki , at 78,117

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 32

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 6
F4U-1 Corsair x 13
F6F-3 Hellcat x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk III: 2 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 5 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
-------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Saumlaki , at 78,117

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 43 NM, estimated altitude 32,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 9

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk III x 1
F4U-1 Corsair x 1
F6F-3 Hellcat x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
-------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Ambon at 76,109

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5c Zero x 6
D4Y3 Judy x 18
Ki-84a Frank x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y3 Judy: 5 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
DD Boyd, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Ringgold
DD Aulick, heavy fires, heavy damage
-------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Ambon at 76,109

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 4
D4Y3 Judy x 14
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y3 Judy: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Ringgold, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Kidd
-------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Ambon at 77,111

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3a Zero x 20
D4Y3 Judy x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y3 Judy: 19 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
DD Braine
DD Bache, Bomb hits 1
DD Abbot






_____________________________

"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 1650
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