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HRs for National Rearm

 
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HRs for National Rearm - 8/25/2011 8:03:10 PM   
JWE

 

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Thought these might be fun to look at, but didn’t want to step on the Perfect War thread. These are what Babes folks use in our CPX scenarios and GC games.

A National ship may only rearm at a National Port or from a National TF.

National Port is pretty obvious; it assumes the right parts, in the right crates, printed in the right language. Nationality of the NavSup personnel don’t matter much, because it also assumes there’s a Dutch officer somewhere who can say “deze torpedos gaat met dat ship.” It’s a mater of ‘supply’. Supply in a Dutch port will likely be Dutch.

National TF has the same philosophy. A National TF is only formed at a National Port, so it is assumed it has National ‘supply’ on board. It must stay as a TF, so rearm is by the ‘Replenish at sea’ button if the TF is in another nationality’s port. Only thing is ‘Do not Unload’ has to be set, and the TF may not ‘Load Supply’, unless port nationality = TF nationality.

This addresses Termy’s point about Zuiderkruis in RN service, later war. The Z could sail to Columbo, disband, and then be part of a UK National TF, humping rum, oolong, crumpets, haggis and 4.7” shells. i.e, any nationality of tender can carry anything, so long as it loads National ‘supply’ at a National Port as part of a National TF.

All it takes is a bit of simple bookkeeping. If one thinks about it, it makes it mandatory that a Nation have at least one port where its tenders can re-supply. Otherwise, their combat ships quickly become useless. Makes holding onto Ceylon much more important and compels a defense of the DEI.


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RE: HRs for National Rearm - 8/25/2011 9:04:03 PM   
Bradley7735


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John,

as an addendum you might want to add for those nationalities who do not have AE's and AKE's.....

Let's assume this example...

ABDA surface fleet (Houston, Boise, Exeter, Java, etc....) US ships want to load at Ambom, but have no AE to load from. xAK supply TF loaded supply at PH long ago and is waiting at Ambom. For 1 turn, the player unloads 1 xAK that has supply, and the player can load Houston and Boise from the port.

I'm not sure how you'd word that in your rules above, or if you even think that would be acceptable. Anyway, I thought I'd mention it.

bc

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RE: HRs for National Rearm - 8/26/2011 2:08:10 AM   
JeffK


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Maybe allow RN/RAN/RIN ships to share facilities and supplies.

(In one of the mods I did I renamed ships with their USM/RN/RAN titles, lots of work but it looked nice and would aid in this.

Same thing for air units?

RAAF Squadrons only use RAAF aviation support units etc etc.

Maybe, to cover Bradley's example, especially in the early months, allow some flexibility as managing the ABDA fleets might take a lot of work. (Were all 8" ammo the same fit??)

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RE: HRs for National Rearm - 8/26/2011 3:32:42 PM   
Sardaukar


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I'll throw in an idea to allow re-arming from ports containing Command HQ (or maybe even Naval HQ) for all, to present increased logistic ability by said HQs.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 8/26/2011 3:38:16 PM >


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RE: HRs for National Rearm - 8/26/2011 6:45:20 PM   
Nikademus


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problem with using a command HQ or AE is that it circumvents the purpose and spirit of the rule too easily. One would probably need a more time sensitive system in place to simulate the logistical difficulties of the early war situation vs. the late war situation which not only saw lots of AE type vessels but the organizational know how and beurocracy in place to make stocking a distant and/or foreign port possible.

For 41, 1942 (or at least the first half of 42) you'd want the most restrictions in place in order to discorage the wholesale deployment of foreign ships to distant shores, able to do the typical hit and run missions which see lots of ammunition fired off.

Myself....i already restrict myself by pretty much keeping the navies mostly seperate. I don't mix RN/USN units except in limited cases in the knowledge that each nation had it's own territories and agendas. So RN mostly stays in IO or maybe Oz if one can swing the logistics (which is a REAL challenge if you don't give in to the Drain the SRA dry strategy) I once tried transferring some R class BB's there without prior preperation and they ran out of fuel along the way!!!! Then were stuck in port while i tried to ship in additional fuel to them.

How easy is it to convert AE's?

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RE: HRs for National Rearm - 8/26/2011 7:23:48 PM   
JWE

 

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Those are just the simple ones we have in our games. Doing it for ships tends to sensitize the players to the other stuff and things work out pretty well.

@JeffK,
RN/RAN/RNZN/RIN are all equated to CW, so no worries there.
Airplanes are painful because a B25 is a B25, a Hudson is a Hudson, a Tomahawk is a P-40, etc... but a Catalina ain't a Sunderland ain't a Fokker; so what's fungible (remember AIRSOLS?) and what's not. Painful. Rule of reason. Probably not a good HR because it has so many quite acceptable exceptions: needs both players to have the same understanding and philosophy to work. More of a 'keep it righteous' than a 'rule'.
@Sardaukar,
They are suggested HRs, so one can do whatever they and their partner agree on. I don't think Command HQs are a good exception, however. Just because Nimitz or Halsey was in the 'hood, doesn't mean it can magically produce someone else's ammo. Think it best to just keep it simple.
@Bradley,
Again, they are suggested HRs, so one can do whatever they and their partner agree on. But we give no consideration whatever to ABDA. Houston, Boise, the four stackers don't rearm at Dutch ports just because they are ABDA. That was the problem with ABDA. One must face the same operational limitations their real life counterparts did. That's the whole point of the exercise.

Ciao. John

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RE: HRs for National Rearm - 8/27/2011 12:22:12 AM   
Blackhorse


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JWE,

To clarify -- once the NEI falls, does that mean that all surviving Dutch ships would become "one shot wonders", unable to rearm for the remainder of the war? Or am I missing something?

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RE: HRs for National Rearm - 8/27/2011 2:54:40 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Thought these might be fun to look at, but didn’t want to step on the Perfect War thread. These are what Babes folks use in our CPX scenarios and GC games.

A National ship may only rearm at a National Port or from a National TF.

National Port is pretty obvious; it assumes the right parts, in the right crates, printed in the right language. Nationality of the NavSup personnel don’t matter much, because it also assumes there’s a Dutch officer somewhere who can say “deze torpedos gaat met dat ship.” It’s a mater of ‘supply’. Supply in a Dutch port will likely be Dutch.

National TF has the same philosophy. A National TF is only formed at a National Port, so it is assumed it has National ‘supply’ on board. It must stay as a TF, so rearm is by the ‘Replenish at sea’ button if the TF is in another nationality’s port. Only thing is ‘Do not Unload’ has to be set, and the TF may not ‘Load Supply’, unless port nationality = TF nationality.

This addresses Termy’s point about Zuiderkruis in RN service, later war. The Z could sail to Columbo, disband, and then be part of a UK National TF, humping rum, oolong, crumpets, haggis and 4.7” shells. i.e, any nationality of tender can carry anything, so long as it loads National ‘supply’ at a National Port as part of a National TF.

All it takes is a bit of simple bookkeeping. If one thinks about it, it makes it mandatory that a Nation have at least one port where its tenders can re-supply. Otherwise, their combat ships quickly become useless. Makes holding onto Ceylon much more important and compels a defense of the DEI.


JWE - not only an excellent concept, but due to your superb grasp of the Dutch Language, I feel somewhat Culturally Enhanced....
Mac

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RE: HRs for National Rearm - 8/27/2011 5:10:26 AM   
JeffK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

Those are just the simple ones we have in our games. Doing it for ships tends to sensitize the players to the other stuff and things work out pretty well.

@JeffK,
RN/RAN/RNZN/RIN are all equated to CW, so no worries there.
Airplanes are painful because a B25 is a B25, a Hudson is a Hudson, a Tomahawk is a P-40, etc... but a Catalina ain't a Sunderland ain't a Fokker;

Ciao. John

But many of the early US Lend lease types got .303 to replace 30cal, used British electrics and Radios. Enough difference to make a difference.

As I play v AI, many of these restrictions make sense and are easily put into place, probably evens out the battle against the AI as well.

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RE: HRs for National Rearm - 8/27/2011 2:51:47 PM   
Blackhorse


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From: Eastern US
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

But many [snip] used British electrics and Radios. Enough difference to make a difference.



British electrics!? We have to add a handicap to any vehicle or vessel equipped with "british electrics"! Say, 25% SYS damage, for starters.

Any past owner of a car with Lucas ("The Prince of Darkness") electronics, knows what of I speak.




P.S. This is *not* an anti-UK rant. American automobile manufacturers were, and are, eminently capable of turning out complete clunkers. And our friends Across the Pond produce many admirable products. But when it came to short-circuits and blown fuses, nobody could hold a candle to Lucas.


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RE: HRs for National Rearm - 8/27/2011 7:05:14 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
JWE,

To clarify -- once the NEI falls, does that mean that all surviving Dutch ships would become "one shot wonders", unable to rearm for the remainder of the war? Or am I missing something?

No, it's that rule of reason thing. Pay some PPs and make a Dutch port somewhere.
quote:

But when it came to short-circuits and blown fuses, nobody could hold a candle to Lucas.

Remember that classic poster of the Lucas factory? where the neon sign that said Lucas was dark, and the notice in the corner said 'out of order'? remember a few other things from my youth;
Lucas, an acronym for Loose, Unsoldered Connections And Splices;
Lucas invented self dimming headlights;
Lucas invented the three position switch: dim, flicker, off (alternatively, smoke, smolder, ignite);
Lucas uses AC current, just at a random frequency;
The English drink warm beer because Lucas makes their refrigerators;
Lucas should make vacuum cleaners, because at least that product won't suck;
The Lucas motto "Just get home before dark."

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