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Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update

 
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Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 8/8/2011 7:23:34 PM   
dazoline II


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Hi,

I thought I drop a quick update on what I'm doing with the Random Generator Mod besides ignoring Junk's plea for help in the mod thread .

I'm currently working on incorporating a GUI task force builder into both the battle and campaign generators and while its slow going it is coming to a point where i have some working screen shots so I thought I post them here. What I've done is to create a task force GUI to enable a user to make a task force of units without the user having to know XML. This GUI is accessable from the Battle and Campaign generators where each task force file is listed and can be referenced multiple times in the RBG and RCG. As you can see in the screen shot you can build up a larger organizational force from a smaller one using task force files. In this case a Mototized Battalion. You'll also note the RBG GUI is completely different as I could not make the current one work with the task force files the way I wanted, hence the change.

The second screen shot is the Task Force Generator itself which is identical for both sides except for the unit types and OOBs.

The third SS is of a unit viewer so users can see the unit specs outside of the game, accessable from the task force generator.


At this point I'm unsure of a release date as I have a work contract to fulfil hence the slow moving effort on the generators. I do know I will need help with two areas when it is done which are testing in general and fleshing out the OOB files. I'll put out a call at a later date when I'm closer to release for some fearless forum folk to assist in the birthing process.




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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 8/8/2011 7:24:34 PM   
dazoline II


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Task Force Generator




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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 8/8/2011 7:25:04 PM   
dazoline II


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Unit Viewer




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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 8/8/2011 8:36:45 PM   
Mad Russian


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You just keep right on ignoring J2D's comments too. Keep working on your project. I'm about to have him so busy doing playtesting he'll never notice the great project you have in the works. 

Good Hunting.

MR


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Post #: 4
RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 8/8/2011 11:42:56 PM   
Commanderski

 

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Looks great! Thanks for the update!

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Post #: 5
RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 8/9/2011 2:49:18 AM   
junk2drive


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Thanks for letting us know what you are up to. Looks good.

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 8/9/2011 3:02:17 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Dazoline,

That is superb. Thank you for working on this. Feel free to drop me a line at erikr@matrixgames.com anytime if you have any questions.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 8/9/2011 5:07:54 AM   
Jacko


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Very impressive, dazoline!

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 8/16/2011 7:14:30 AM   
gijas


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When will this be avaliable to DL? Looks great!

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 8/16/2011 1:35:17 PM   
dazoline II


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I don't want to commit to a timeline as there's still a lot of work to do and little time to do it in ATM.

Looking at the amount of work done and what's still to do I believe I'm more than 1/2 way there and its taken me more than two months to get to where I am. That's as good an answer as I can even give myself.

Thanks for the compliements.

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 10/29/2011 7:55:40 PM   
junk2drive


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Now that the update is close to official, I'd like to bring this up again.

Some of the niggles that I have had with RG battles and campaigns:
1 Flag points too low. Taking a flag doesn't tip the battle.
2 Too few flags.
3 Too many Soviet low cost infantry. Causing a step loss gives you half the points. For a 2 or 3 point unit, that means one point. If the enemy runs away, it takes too long to gain points.
4 Turn 60 bonus and 100 turn limit. The enemy gets the bonus on turn 60. I have seen numbers like 2500 and 599, etc. I have taken 40 or so turns to command the battlefield and then start chasing stragglers. Nothing much worse than not winning by turn 60 and then losing because of this bogus bonus. (of course if we had a cease fire button...)

Fixes
1&2 Ability to pick the number and points amount of flags.
3 Increase the points cost of Soviet infantry or change the force mix xml to a lower percent to allow purchase of other types of units. As long as it isn't more artillery.
4 Remove the bonus or change it to player side. If the AI hasn't beaten me by turn 60, I should win and be able to move on. I can always use the easy normal hard settings.

I'll add more if I think of them. Hopefully dazoline will see this and respond.


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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 10/29/2011 8:30:20 PM   
Lieste

 

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Penetration is spelled incorrectly in the BT7M shot above.

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 10/29/2011 11:40:07 PM   
dazoline II


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lieste

Penetration is spelled incorrectly in the BT7M shot above.



But at least consistently , thanks.

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Post #: 13
RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 10/29/2011 11:43:45 PM   
oldspec4

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Now that the update is close to official, I'd like to bring this up again.

Some of the niggles that I have had with RG battles and campaigns:
1 Flag points too low. Taking a flag doesn't tip the battle.
2 Too few flags.
3 Too many Soviet low cost infantry. Causing a step loss gives you half the points. For a 2 or 3 point unit, that means one point. If the enemy runs away, it takes too long to gain points.
4 Turn 60 bonus and 100 turn limit. The enemy gets the bonus on turn 60. I have seen numbers like 2500 and 599, etc. I have taken 40 or so turns to command the battlefield and then start chasing stragglers. Nothing much worse than not winning by turn 60 and then losing because of this bogus bonus. (of course if we had a cease fire button...)

Fixes
1&2 Ability to pick the number and points amount of flags.
3 Increase the points cost of Soviet infantry or change the force mix xml to a lower percent to allow purchase of other types of units. As long as it isn't more artillery.
4 Remove the bonus or change it to player side. If the AI hasn't beaten me by turn 60, I should win and be able to move on. I can always use the easy normal hard settings.




+1 on your comments...I like to play RG campaigns but as noted there are too many negatives, particularly the turn 60 bonus and fatiguing 100 turn limit.

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Post #: 14
RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 10/29/2011 11:59:02 PM   
dazoline II


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I see your niggles and raise you nits.

1&2 Ability to pick the number and points amount of flags.
Added to the wish list

3 Increase the points cost of Soviet infantry or change the force mix xml to a lower percent to allow purchase of other types of units. As long as it isn't more artillery.
I the mod this thread describes is about removing the randomness from picking your own and opposing troops. But since I have to recode the entire RBG, I'll put this on the wish list.

4 Remove the bonus or change it to player side. If the AI hasn't beaten me by turn 60, I should win and be able to move on. I can always use the easy normal hard settings.
Should be easy to do, with a "what happens on final turn" question with answers of "AI wins" or "I win". Added to the wish list.



quote:

ORIGINAL: junk2drive

Now that the update is close to official, I'd like to bring this up again.

Some of the niggles that I have had with RG battles and campaigns:
1 Flag points too low. Taking a flag doesn't tip the battle.
2 Too few flags.
3 Too many Soviet low cost infantry. Causing a step loss gives you half the points. For a 2 or 3 point unit, that means one point. If the enemy runs away, it takes too long to gain points.
4 Turn 60 bonus and 100 turn limit. The enemy gets the bonus on turn 60. I have seen numbers like 2500 and 599, etc. I have taken 40 or so turns to command the battlefield and then start chasing stragglers. Nothing much worse than not winning by turn 60 and then losing because of this bogus bonus. (of course if we had a cease fire button...)

Fixes
1&2 Ability to pick the number and points amount of flags.
3 Increase the points cost of Soviet infantry or change the force mix xml to a lower percent to allow purchase of other types of units. As long as it isn't more artillery.
4 Remove the bonus or change it to player side. If the AI hasn't beaten me by turn 60, I should win and be able to move on. I can always use the easy normal hard settings.

I'll add more if I think of them. Hopefully dazoline will see this and respond.




< Message edited by dazoline II -- 10/30/2011 12:03:15 AM >


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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 10/30/2011 12:05:40 AM   
dazoline II


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The timeline for this mod is still on hold as work is just raining contracts at the moment and won't stop until after Christmas sometime. It's not on the shelf but on hold.

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 10/30/2011 5:28:15 PM   
Mad Russian


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If there is anything I can do with OOB information let me know.

Good Hunting.

MR


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The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

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Post #: 17
RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 11/3/2011 1:25:38 PM   
z1812


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I wonder if an option to force the game to end on a specific turn could be included in your program.

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Post #: 18
RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 11/3/2011 3:49:06 PM   
dazoline II


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It could.

I'm fairly certain the way it works right now is the game runs until the ratio of points for one side has passed some threshold. The game will then end the scenario and display the battle summary.

The way the RBG/RCG works is to deliver a big hit to points on turn 60 (an arbitrary choice) to one side or the other. This makes the game end as above.
So 4 Remove the bonus or change it to player side. If the AI hasn't beaten me by turn 60, I should win and be able to move on. I can always use the easy normal hard settings. is discussing this, which I have put on the wish list.

So what I could do is give the player a choice as to what turn the big hit of points is done on and to what side. This of course introduces some unintended concequences like the retorical scenario: Say I am losing badly, only one tank and flag left and the big hit of points comes on turn x to me where the turn is a low number say 10 and gives me 1000 points. Will those points be enough to end the battle? and if so how badly will the battle be misrepresented in the outcome?

Right now with the turn always being 60 you can be fairly sure the battle has reached or almost reached a conclusion whereas if we give the end turn as a variable that conclusion will be less certain especially if the variable is a small number.

I'd have to think/discuss it more before adding to the wishlist.

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 11/5/2011 2:48:06 AM   
junk2drive


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Here is another idea. Have the created files output to a JSGME ready folder instead of placing them in the game. Then you could run different variations of the same setup. Also you could easily find the files to modify them if you should wish to.

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 11/12/2011 5:29:03 PM   
z1812


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Thanks for your response Dazoline. I find often the battles drag on much longer than they should given the battlefield situation.

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 11/12/2011 8:03:04 PM   
Mad Russian


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Looking at this I'm thinking that there should be a way to make a very specific generator.

For instance. Barbarossa 41, Fall Blue, Kursk Northern Shoulder - Kursk Southern Shoulder, Lenningrad, etc.....

The only thing I can see holding some specific time period generators back would be the TO&Es and the historical data to support them.

Maybe, instead of trying to do the entire Russian Front, in the first version you pick a 3 - 6 month period and work on that first. Just a thought.

Good Hunting.

MR


_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to z1812)
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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 11/12/2011 11:22:27 PM   
dazoline II


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Yes, you can make them very specific. Tracking a division through the oob changes it undergoes throughout the war if you like. The issue I face is I'm not a subject matter expert or a good researcher in this regard. So what I have tried to make is a framework that others can build on to flesh out the generic OOBs I have right now. In effect making an open source oob system.

I'm including the oob files I have presently. Taken to an extent from a certain eastern front operational game presently published by Matrix. You'll see in the files there's a file called Panzer Division.xml which controls the type dropdown in the screenshot. In the file are oob tags which reference a timeframe and the available unit types that make up in this case a generic panzer division.

MR, I know you had volenteered making OOBs and I certainly want to take advantage of that but I also didn't want to ask for contributions even before the system is ready. Seeing this post I can see you've been giving this some thought so I thought I should give you some additional info on the OOB system. If you want to go so far as extending or creating other oob files I will certainly include them when I release the new version.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

Looking at this I'm thinking that there should be a way to make a very specific generator.

For instance. Barbarossa 41, Fall Blue, Kursk Northern Shoulder - Kursk Southern Shoulder, Lenningrad, etc.....

The only thing I can see holding some specific time period generators back would be the TO&Es and the historical data to support them.

Maybe, instead of trying to do the entire Russian Front, in the first version you pick a 3 - 6 month period and work on that first. Just a thought.

Good Hunting.

MR




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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 1/20/2012 1:01:54 PM   
junk2drive


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Now that the holidays are over, any word on the Unit Viewer?

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Post #: 24
RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 1/20/2012 1:17:10 PM   
junk2drive


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quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812

Thanks for your response Dazoline. I find often the battles drag on much longer than they should given the battlefield situation.


I have found that random campaigns can have a random turn on which a random small amount will be given to the defender.

Under the opponent side in the Battles xml is posture. If multiple choices are listed it is picked at random.

posture="attack,defend,defend,defbonus"

With defbonus I had results of around turn 15 with around 100 points on a couple of battles. It also tells you in the briefing the approximate turn that the opponent will start receiving the bonus.

By editing the Battles files for a campaign with defbonus as the only choice, you will get this for every battle.

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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 1/20/2012 1:59:57 PM   
dazoline II


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I still have over a months worth of work on my newest contract so there won't be any movement for a while. After suffering burn out once years ago I'm reluctant to restart the work as I'd be working on code during the day and night. Which means in the end burnout and not getting any work done for months.

The unit viewer screen (SS #3 above) and the Task Force Generator (SS #2 above) are complete. Of course their next to useless without the battle generator finished.


Are you looking at just getting the unit viewer released so you can see the units outside of the game without reading the XML?
The only issue would be I'd have to create some script that can list all the available units on a screen which can call the unit viewer for display.

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 1/20/2012 2:25:17 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12905
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I understand burn out. Yes I was looking for the unit viewer to see units with the picture etc that you don't get with the xml.

No hurry. Glad to see you are still interested.

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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 1/20/2012 4:23:20 PM   
Mobius


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That generator looks marvelous.

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RE: Battle and Campaign Generator Mods Update - 1/20/2012 7:05:25 PM   
dazoline II


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Thanks for the compliment Mobius.

I'll look at working on some type of launch page for the unit viewer in the next few days.

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