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Guam Insular Force - 8/7/2011 8:23:55 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 15061
Joined: 10/10/2005
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The defense of Guam seems to be nil.
This is ahistorical - a USN base force was present with a small element of Marines -
these reinforced by Guamanian militia led and trained by the militia.

It is similar to the leaving out of the 6 inch guns at Rabaul and the Indian Ocean
nitrate islands - significant if minor well known assets have been left out.

When I find the data I will post the number and types of squads for Guam.

Post #: 1
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/7/2011 8:32:05 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41361
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Good Grief...

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Post #: 2
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/7/2011 8:57:08 PM   
WLockard


Posts: 183
Joined: 11/13/2005
Status: offline
Do you play a different game than the rest of us? As far as I can see, Raboul has its 2 6" CD guns and
Guam has some USMC squads.






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 3
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/7/2011 9:00:22 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12952
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

The defense of Guam seems to be nil.
This is ahistorical - a USN base force was present with a small element of Marines -
these reinforced by Guamanian militia led and trained by the militia.

It is similar to the leaving out of the 6 inch guns at Rabaul and the Indian Ocean
nitrate islands - significant if minor well known assets have been left out.

When I find the data I will post the number and types of squads for Guam.




I spent two years there , working in the Marianas Military museum. We had extensive data on the Insular force. There were less than 200 members (at full strenght, which they never were) armed with Springfields and two Lewis guns (one of which was always broken). They had no artillery,mprtars or even hand grenades. In essense, they were an auxilary unit of the "police force". The "police force"? That was less than 100 US Marines, who were armed in a similar nature. On invasion day , the insular force put up a spirited fight for the Govenors house. They lost two members , and surrendered half an hour later (pretty much out of ammo). The USMC forces had even less, and didn't last much longer.

300 men, don't stand much of a chance against over 5,000. Especially when there was no ships (Except for the Minesweeper USS Peguin , that survived less than 30 minutes) no aircraft ,no artillery, or armor. The guns and planes were removed to comply with the Washington Naval treat that said no fortifications west of PH, except for the PI.

Frankly, I can't see bothering to model this force , unless you want to list EVERY policeman and boyscout in the Pacific. It just isn't worth while.


_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 4
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/7/2011 9:02:38 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18391
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
Status: offline
Sounds like the game got it just about right then...

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Post #: 5
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/7/2011 9:08:11 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41361
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

The defense of Guam seems to be nil.
This is ahistorical - a USN base force was present with a small element of Marines -
these reinforced by Guamanian militia led and trained by the militia.

It is similar to the leaving out of the 6 inch guns at Rabaul and the Indian Ocean
nitrate islands - significant if minor well known assets have been left out.

When I find the data I will post the number and types of squads for Guam.




I spent two years there , working in the Marianas Military museum. We had extensive data on the Insular force. There were less than 200 members (at full strenght, which they never were) armed with Springfields and two Lewis guns (one of which was always broken). They had no artillery,mprtars or even hand grenades. In essense, they were an auxilary unit of the "police force". The "police force"? That was less than 100 US Marines, who were armed in a similar nature. On invasion day , the insular force put up a spirited fight for the Govenors house. They lost two members , and surrendered half an hour later (pretty much out of ammo). The USMC forces had even less, and didn't last much longer.

300 men, don't stand much of a chance against over 5,000. Especially when there was no ships (Except for the Minesweeper USS Peguin , that survived less than 30 minutes) no aircraft ,no artillery, or armor. The guns and planes were removed to comply with the Washington Naval treat that said no fortifications west of PH, except for the PI.

Frankly, I can't see bothering to model this force , unless you want to list EVERY policeman and boyscout in the Pacific. It just isn't worth while.



Of course it isn't, but Sid is just pursuing his tedious usual agenda. And continuing to fail at it.

It's too late, Sid... You're only displaying your lack of knowledge and your bad attitude. Make your mod. Go away.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 6
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/7/2011 9:46:08 PM   
Pascal


Posts: 1638
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: in New England now after driving across US from CA
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Hey, the game is also missing the USO show units. These have an immediate effect on increasing moral by 33 points. If they are commanded by Betty Grable the increase is 50 points. My preference though is for the Gene Tiernan commanded unit. Smaller, but more mobile so it can be used on more units in a short amount of time. These should appear as of mid-1942...

< Message edited by Pascal -- 8/7/2011 9:47:29 PM >


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Post #: 7
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/8/2011 3:00:55 AM   
jb1144

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 12/4/2007
Status: offline
AW1 steve, that matches the information I had as a member of the Guam Army National Guard. the milita was about 200.

(in reply to Pascal)
Post #: 8
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/8/2011 3:05:34 AM   
Cap Mandrake

 

Posts: 17015
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

The defense of Guam seems to be nil.
This is ahistorical - a USN base force was present with a small element of Marines -
these reinforced by Guamanian militia led and trained by the militia.

It is similar to the leaving out of the 6 inch guns at Rabaul and the Indian Ocean
nitrate islands - significant if minor well known assets have been left out.

When I find the data I will post the number and types of squads for Guam.




I spent two years there , working in the Marianas Military museum. We had extensive data on the Insular force. There were less than 200 members (at full strenght, which they never were) armed with Springfields and two Lewis guns (one of which was always broken). They had no artillery,mprtars or even hand grenades. In essense, they were an auxilary unit of the "police force". The "police force"? That was less than 100 US Marines, who were armed in a similar nature. On invasion day , the insular force put up a spirited fight for the Govenors house. They lost two members , and surrendered half an hour later (pretty much out of ammo). The USMC forces had even less, and didn't last much longer.

300 men, don't stand much of a chance against over 5,000. Especially when there was no ships (Except for the Minesweeper USS Peguin , that survived less than 30 minutes) no aircraft ,no artillery, or armor. The guns and planes were removed to comply with the Washington Naval treat that said no fortifications west of PH, except for the PI.

Frankly, I can't see bothering to model this force , unless you want to list EVERY policeman and boyscout in the Pacific. It just isn't worth while.



Santa Maria! The amount of trivia that members of this forum can pull up off the cuff is simply astounding.

I wonder how many of those sailors and marines survived the war?

Why were they even there? Political decision, I guess.


(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 9
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/8/2011 3:27:33 AM   
jb1144

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 12/4/2007
Status: offline
I don't know how many survived, but in the eary 80's when the Naational Guard was formed on Guam, they gave retirement promotions to two members of the Insular Force to the rank of BG, O-7. this is a link about the 1st battle for guam. http://mannaismayaadventure.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/first-battle-of-guam-1941-and-second-1944/

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 10
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/8/2011 7:06:21 AM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1927
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

The defense of Guam seems to be nil.
This is ahistorical - a USN base force was present with a small element of Marines -
these reinforced by Guamanian militia led and trained by the militia.

It is similar to the leaving out of the 6 inch guns at Rabaul and the Indian Ocean
nitrate islands - significant if minor well known assets have been left out.

When I find the data I will post the number and types of squads for Guam.




I spent two years there , working in the Marianas Military museum. We had extensive data on the Insular force. There were less than 200 members (at full strenght, which they never were) armed with Springfields and two Lewis guns (one of which was always broken). They had no artillery,mprtars or even hand grenades. In essense, they were an auxilary unit of the "police force". The "police force"? That was less than 100 US Marines, who were armed in a similar nature. On invasion day , the insular force put up a spirited fight for the Govenors house. They lost two members , and surrendered half an hour later (pretty much out of ammo). The USMC forces had even less, and didn't last much longer.

300 men, don't stand much of a chance against over 5,000. Especially when there was no ships (Except for the Minesweeper USS Peguin , that survived less than 30 minutes) no aircraft ,no artillery, or armor. The guns and planes were removed to comply with the Washington Naval treat that said no fortifications west of PH, except for the PI.

Frankly, I can't see bothering to model this force , unless you want to list EVERY policeman and boyscout in the Pacific. It just isn't worth while.



Thanks, Steve,

We were aware of the standing forces on Guam. The Base Force includes just over 100 Marines with 2x MMG. (8 Sqds, 1 MG section). Insofar as the Insular Force is represented, it is folded into the support squads (10 support squads = 1 AV on defense). As Steve says, we had to draw the line between police and army somewhere.


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Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 11
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/8/2011 7:25:53 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1330
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pascal
Hey, the game is also missing the USO show units. These have an immediate effect on increasing moral by 33 points. If they are commanded by Betty Grable the increase is 50 points. My preference though is for the Gene Tiernan commanded unit. Smaller, but more mobile so it can be used on more units in a short amount of time. These should appear as of mid-1942...

i guess you wrote that tongue-in-cheek, but i think its a wonderful idea & should be added! it'd be a fun thing (like that audio stuff from Orphan Ann), perfectly in keeping w/ the scale of the game.

However, your morale increases are much too large, & wouldn't all US units take a loss if Ms. Grable's transport plane was intercepted & shot down? NTM losing a chunk of political points as well.

heh, pinup photos and airplane nose art are already abstracted in the game as part of the 'Supply' algorithm.

(in reply to Pascal)
Post #: 12
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/8/2011 2:21:57 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12952
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

The defense of Guam seems to be nil.
This is ahistorical - a USN base force was present with a small element of Marines -
these reinforced by Guamanian militia led and trained by the militia.

It is similar to the leaving out of the 6 inch guns at Rabaul and the Indian Ocean
nitrate islands - significant if minor well known assets have been left out.

When I find the data I will post the number and types of squads for Guam.




I spent two years there , working in the Marianas Military museum. We had extensive data on the Insular force. There were less than 200 members (at full strenght, which they never were) armed with Springfields and two Lewis guns (one of which was always broken). They had no artillery,mprtars or even hand grenades. In essense, they were an auxilary unit of the "police force". The "police force"? That was less than 100 US Marines, who were armed in a similar nature. On invasion day , the insular force put up a spirited fight for the Govenors house. They lost two members , and surrendered half an hour later (pretty much out of ammo). The USMC forces had even less, and didn't last much longer.

300 men, don't stand much of a chance against over 5,000. Especially when there was no ships (Except for the Minesweeper USS Peguin , that survived less than 30 minutes) no aircraft ,no artillery, or armor. The guns and planes were removed to comply with the Washington Naval treat that said no fortifications west of PH, except for the PI.

Frankly, I can't see bothering to model this force , unless you want to list EVERY policeman and boyscout in the Pacific. It just isn't worth while.



Santa Maria! The amount of trivia that members of this forum can pull up off the cuff is simply astounding.

I wonder how many of those sailors and marines survived the war?

Why were they even there? Political decision, I guess.




Quite a few survived (I was able to meet and interview a few of the Chomorrans in the Insular guard.Most of the USMC went home to the US mainland).

As far as why they were there? Up until the early 1960's Guam was managed by the USN. It's Govenor was a USN Captain. In the late 1930's a delegation went to DC to speak with Roosevelt about some upgrade in status , or perhaps a quasi independance. FDR said he'd be happy to transfer Guam to the department of the Interior ("and oh by the way have you recently visited a American Indian reservation?"). FDR was a capable negoitiator (and pretty good at playing "dirty" when he wanted to). The delegation decided that they were VERY happy with the USN running things.

The USN also ran American Samoa the same way. They provided Marines as police, USN as firefighters , hired teachers and ran schools, and USN medical personal handled much of the Islands Medical needs. Guam then , as now , had a Senate (ran along the lines of the US Senate, with two Senator from each village). But at the time, the population was so small (and about to get a whole lot smaller) that it was difficult, if not impossible , to provide those services.

From most of the Chomorrans that I interviewed who recalled the pre war period, it was a pretty good arrangement, with the USN being a pretty good nieghbor , helping when needed and butting out the rest of the time. One gentleman who served in the USN told me that the Navy got along a lot better with the Chomorrans then they did with city governments in the US mainland (like Norfolk Virginia, location of the famous "Dog and sailors keep off the grass" signs!).

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 13
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/8/2011 2:23:57 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 12952
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: ME-FL-DC-GM-WA-NE-IL ?
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pascal
Hey, the game is also missing the USO show units. These have an immediate effect on increasing moral by 33 points. If they are commanded by Betty Grable the increase is 50 points. My preference though is for the Gene Tiernan commanded unit. Smaller, but more mobile so it can be used on more units in a short amount of time. These should appear as of mid-1942...

i guess you wrote that tongue-in-cheek, but i think its a wonderful idea & should be added! it'd be a fun thing (like that audio stuff from Orphan Ann), perfectly in keeping w/ the scale of the game.

However, your morale increases are much too large, & wouldn't all US units take a loss if Ms. Grable's transport plane was intercepted & shot down? NTM losing a chunk of political points as well.

heh, pinup photos and airplane nose art are already abstracted in the game as part of the 'Supply' algorithm.



Yeah , but imagine if you have a battle weary division on "rest". You get a "import a USO show " button, that immediately raises morale 25%! (Kidding guys, just kidding!)

_____________________________

"Geezerhood is a state of mind, attained by being largely out of yours". AW1Steve

"Quit whining and play the game. Or go home". My 7th grade baseball coach. It applies well to WITP AE players.

(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 14
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/8/2011 4:54:44 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25313
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
I just noted that Seattle is missing several vital Coffee BN units. THIS IS AHISTORICAL. Without these units being represented properly, the naval shipyard cannot function at full efficiency. I will post the correct numbers in this thread when i get a chance. First however....i must Caffinate.


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Post #: 15
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/8/2011 9:30:55 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 5925
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Post #: 16
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/9/2011 2:15:10 AM   
Pascal


Posts: 1638
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: in New England now after driving across US from CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pascal
Hey, the game is also missing the USO show units. These have an immediate effect on increasing moral by 33 points. If they are commanded by Betty Grable the increase is 50 points. My preference though is for the Gene Tiernan commanded unit. Smaller, but more mobile so it can be used on more units in a short amount of time. These should appear as of mid-1942...

i guess you wrote that tongue-in-cheek, but i think its a wonderful idea & should be added! it'd be a fun thing (like that audio stuff from Orphan Ann), perfectly in keeping w/ the scale of the game.

However, your morale increases are much too large, & wouldn't all US units take a loss if Ms. Grable's transport plane was intercepted & shot down? NTM losing a chunk of political points as well.

heh, pinup photos and airplane nose art are already abstracted in the game as part of the 'Supply' algorithm.


Have you ever seen 'Stalag 17'? The breakdown the POW goes through when he finds out Betty Grable got married?

Here's a moral booster!




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

So much WitP and so little time to play.... :-(


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Post #: 17
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/9/2011 2:19:58 AM   
LowCommand

 

Posts: 131
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: VA
Status: offline

On the USO front, I seem to remember that Bob Hope accidently captured an airfield from the Communists. The transport landed at a base that was being recaptured. For some inexplicable reason the retreating N. Koreans didn’t shoot up the plane. The attacking troops, or at least the commander were slightly miffed and the USO folks were very grateful things worked out so well.

Anybody else remember anything about this?



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"Warn all traffic and detain,
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Post #: 18
RE: Guam Insular Force - 8/9/2011 10:26:22 AM   
Iron Duke


Posts: 521
Joined: 1/7/2002
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LowCommand


On the USO front, I seem to remember that Bob Hope accidently captured an airfield from the Communists. The transport landed at a base that was being recaptured. For some inexplicable reason the retreating N. Koreans didn’t shoot up the plane. The attacking troops, or at least the commander were slightly miffed and the USO folks were very grateful things worked out so well.

Anybody else remember anything about this?



sounds like the film Road to Pyongyang. staring bing crosby and bob hope

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Post #: 19
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