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RE: AE Grandmaster

 
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RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/2/2011 3:05:09 AM   
pws1225

 

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quote:

GreyJoy: Because the guy is keeping the entire forum entertained with his steadfastness, foibles, creative spelling, and genuine cheerfulness.


Me thinks GreyJoy has already earned the title of Grand-Noob. What a heart the guy has!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 31
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/2/2011 4:38:58 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Terminus: Just because it wil irritate the fire out of him.


+1



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Post #: 32
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 2:51:31 AM   
Wirraway_Ace


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Can one be a Grand Master having never read the manual? If so, Cap Mandrake should certainly be in the discussion. But seriously

I do feel that if one nominates a player, they should have to make a compelling case.

My two:

PzB. The way he has disrupted his experienced opponent throughout his operational and strategic depth is a thing of sublime beauty.

Nemo21. No player I have yet seen puts into practice the concept that so many struggle to define--strategic objectives--like Nemo. Others talk it. Nemo identifies then pursues with ruthless efficiency and purpose those objectives.


OK, I think Cap Mandrake is clearly very skilled too....

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 33
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 4:52:56 AM   
Raverdave


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................and then there are those past members who deserve naming.........Drongo comes to mind along with Mogami, and AusCobra did a power of work in the early days. And then there are all the plank-owners that stretch back to the dim days of UV.

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Post #: 34
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 5:14:20 AM   
LoBaron


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

I would like to also nominate Alfred, LoBaron, ny59giants, Mike Solli, Q-Ball, cantona2,and Fletcher on top of those worthy players that have already been put-forward. I consider that all the players so far mentioned in this thread, have put many tireless hour though their writings into helping others better understand this game. I also consider all to be brilliant tacticians in their own-right, and they would have made worthy theatre commanders in the real war.


DivePac88, thank you very much for your nomination, but how I understand Alfreds definition of Grandmaster I do not even come close.

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RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 5:47:53 AM   
Cribtop


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Like Canoerebel, I'm honored just to be mentioned in this thread. I personally would say I've learned a lot from the following players: jrcar, Nemo121, Alfred, Canoerebel, Cuttlefish, Mike Solli, ny59giants, Alfred, PzB, John 3rd.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 8/3/2011 5:48:03 AM >


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Post #: 36
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 6:04:40 AM   
corbon

 

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Speaking (perhaps out of turn) as someone who does not play this game, has no interest in playing this game and has no general interest in the PTO at all, but guests here regularly to follow a number of AARs because despite all of the above they are damned interesting and offer a vicarious view of a number of strategic, tactical and logistical* problems, often from both sides of the fence:

It seems clear to me that there are several 'levels' of recognition that are being mooted here.
Alfred's original idea seemed really to be a public recognition of 'this guy (or gal) is a really top-rate player'. It serves two purposes, first as a little bit of in-house recognition that is both an personal ego-boost for the recipient (I know, from personal experience, that that isn't why you have (or acquire) such awards or ratings, but it is a nice feeling, and something akin to a 'thanks' from the general public) and second that it serves notices to the 'uninformed' that this person is someone perhaps worth listening to** - perhaps more than most.
Others seem to have latched onto the idea but expanded it out into a general 'has given something to the community' award.

Perhaps there could be more than one 'classification'?

Now I don't really know the community here well enough to be a good judge so my 'placements' may be well off and I apologise for any mistakes or omissions.
But it seems clear to me that, for example, Greyjoy, though having given much entertainment from his first AAR, would not qualify in the slightest for anything except perhaps a 'special award' for sustained enthusiasm in the face of adversity.

Canoerebel, though I have and am following several outstanding AARs, seemed to my untrained eye to demonstrate skill, but not brilliance in 'defeating' Q-Ball. CR let Q-Ball defeat himself, if extemely competently. Had Q-Ball gone full out for India and CR held after a decisive carrier battle, for example, than that would be a step up in my view. In the current AAR vs Chez, CR has been brilliant, so it seems to me, at throwing, and keeping, Chez off balance. But is this once enough for 'GM' status and is Chez an opponent of high enough quality to make this a big enough achievement? I don't know, I'm just asking. But at the moment I would guess that CR is one of the better players around, and a definite up-and-comer so to speak but perhaps just below that GM level? I'm sure, and I think he has said himself, that Alfred/Nemo level is where he still aspires to be, not where he is.

The two that really stand out, and don't forget that I'm a relative noob even watching here (about a year) so don't know all the 'history', in their advice and comments are Alfred and Nemo. Their comments, advice and analysis are on a different level to anyone else. Almost less useful some of the time, because it's too far above some people they are advising sometimes (it seems to me), but clearly on another plane.

I don't know what else Rader has done, but there is no level of outstanding achievement against a rank noob like Greyjoy that would qualify anyone as a GM IMO. Its like a 4 turn mate in chess - it says everything about the opponent and nothing at all useful about the player achieving it. Sorry Greyjoy...

PzB seems to be a good potential candidate, but I don't see anything on a plane with Alfred and Nemo in his AARs or in him commenting in other's AARs.

Cuttlefish and 1275psi in particular have awesome, awesome, awesome AARs. But about the game itself, its not so easy to tell how good they are.

I reckon you could start with something like this:
Grand Masters
Alfred, Nemo

Masters
PzB, CR

Special Recognition
Cuttlefish, 1275psi, maybe Greyjoy.

I'm sure there are many others that belong in those categories that I don't know.

And out of turn or not, thank you all for the quality of AARs in particular and depth of analysis often given in this forum.



*I always 'knew' that amateurs dally in tactics, professionals in logistics, but this game is the first I've seen that really drove the point home (and one reason I'm not likely to ever play it - I'd hate to be playing at less than what I could but don't have the time to get into the logistical side).

** Greyjoy in particular has got a lot of advice and encouragement in his AAR, often contradictory, and it seems like he often has struggled to discern what is good advice and what is not

< Message edited by corbon -- 8/3/2011 6:07:11 AM >

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 37
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 1:31:30 PM   
Itdepends

 

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Don't forget Radar is also playing scenario 2 against Greyjoy (i.e. Japan on steroids)

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Post #: 38
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 1:54:21 PM   
Nemo121


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I'd like to comment a little on Corbon's rather fascinating contribution if I may...

I agree that there's a difference between what Alfred is looking for and what is developing with the nominations. Alfred was, I believe, seeking to, by community acclaim, highlight those who may through their writings and actions be worth paying close attention to in AARs flooded by all manner of advice. One of the main problems nowadays with the internet and the surfeit of books available on any topic is being able to discern the quality of the content/advice. Not all content/advice is equally valid and while good players may give bad advice on occasion and poor players give brilliant advice on occasion on the whole good players tend to be more spot on than bad players, on average. That much, I trust, is evident.

I believe that michaelm's contribution to the community is huge and deserves significant praise - although not unadulterated praise. Constructive criticism will only help improve the game - and from the interactions I've had with him I'm certain that michaelm would agree with that distinction.

Others contribute much in terms of style. The Voyages of the Hibiki and the recent travails of innumerable Kate and Zero pilots in 1275psi's AARs are interesting and diverting to read. Do I glean much strategic insight from those AARs? No but AARs exist to focus on what the author wishes to focus on. I enjoy and find it relaxing to write about strategic issues. So that's what I write about. Others enjoy writing with a different focus and the variety of AARs is one thing that makes the forum interesting to me.

With that said I'll confine myself to nominations for GrandMaster in terms of gameplay and/or clear evidence of a depth of strategic analysis.

The more players one has played and the more "correct" advice given has been the higher the marks.
Marks will be dropped if you show excellence but only against 1 or 2 opponents as sloppiness in an opponent can make gifts of opportunities which can flatter.

Nominations for Grand Master ( 1st rank ): Alfred, Jrcar.

Just below Grand Master (2nd rank ): PzB, Canoerebel, Grollub, PanzerjaegerHortlund

PzB: I'd like to see if he can recapitulate his successes against others than AndyMac. If he can then he definitely belongs in the first rank IMO.
Canoerebel: A good guy and a good player. Keen desire to improve. Learning and definitely has the strategic layer down more than 1 year ago. I'm unsure re: his experience with the meta-game and his self-awareness. If he improves there he could move up IMO.
Grollub: I haven't seen him AAR but from his comments he is sharp, decisive, disciplined and doesn't lack for a killer instinct. Dangerous.
PanzerjaegerHortlund: I've played him and am still playing him. He is intelligent, decisive, disciplined, has a self-awareness and an awareness of the meta game. He can subjugate his ego needs to the game and he is ruthless. In short he is very dangerous IMO. I think, personally, that PzHortlund is probably the most dangerous - in my estimation - at this level.

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Well, that's that settled then.

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Post #: 39
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 2:27:24 PM   
GreyJoy


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Well, It is even redundant (sp!?) and so obvious to say that my name doesn't belong to anything that has the word "master" in it. Com'on guys, i just started to play and every day committ so many mistakes (not only strategically, but also related to the base mechanics of the game) that i can only be defined as a noob. Maybe an enthusiast noob, but always a noob

Being a noob i cannot say who is the best. Hard to tell also because we are all influenced by the frequence of players' presence on the Forum. The fact that my name has been mentioned is a good evidence of that imho.

I can only say, from the incredible number of contributors to my AAR, that there are a lot of people there who have (and are willing to share) a very deep comprehension of the game and of its strategical implications.

For sure Nemo and Alfred have shown a depth in their analisi which is difficult to find elsewhere.

I'd also like to mention NY59Giants, who to my eyes is a GM. ADB who to me seems really competent too. FatR is another guys never mentioned above (i know he's not very popular on the forum) but who is clearly competent. CR clearly...but the list will be long... and consider that i do attend these forums only since Feb so...

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Post #: 40
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 3:04:39 PM   
Canoerebel


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GreyJoy, you may have misunderstood the reasons your name was mentioned more than once.  Not because anybody thinks you are suddenly a master player (though that may well come), but rather because everybody appreciates your cheerful demeanor and willingness to fight against tough odds.  So, the recognition is kind of a "Miss Congeniality" award - people appreciate your attitude.

I am sure that your creative spelling contributes too.  All who gaze upon "Scoodra" do so in awe and wonder.

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Post #: 41
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 3:10:23 PM   
jeffk3510


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Each and everyone bring something to the forum/game. I really enjoy the folks that can write an excellent AAR...(people at work think I'm an idiot probably when I read Cap Mandrakes and laugh out loud...its crap your pants funny) The voyage of Hibiki was incredible. Just to mention a few...

Those are just small examples of what everyone contributes.

Nemo explains things in such a way that I say ok, because I have no idea what just happened, but I know it is right on. His AARs are incredible as well, his knowledge of the game, and strategically oriented postings are second to none. It also says a lot to stick up for what you believe in.

I have learned more from Alfred's posts recently than I could just playing the game….and that is no joke. His understanding of the game and his tactics have definitely have improved my game playing.

ADB123 really seems to have the game mechanics down and is very passionate about it as well.

Dan seems to know no stranger and I really enjoy his AAR. Seems to have a very good grasp of how the game is played. I really follow his carrier tactics for some reason... and he gets to play at work… lucky man

ny59giants has some incredible tips, game play ideas, and just seems to have a good grasp on the game as well...

I tend to follow The Moose and his postings as well. I really enjoy what he brings.

I could also cast my vote for Dixie too. Not just for artwork

I could always gang up on Linda with AW1Steve

I think I need to start drinking Mike's rum punch. Then I would be as friendly as him.

Terminus to me also seems to have an excellent grasp of this game as well. Don't see and AE AAR, but that doesn't matter. He is also straight to the point…. my kinda guy.

I love Footsloggers' five worded question discussions.

Chickenboy reminds me that Kansas is indeed boring and flat..

DivePac is one nice gentleman.

John loves dogs.

GreyJoy I love your AAR...but...I will say you have really improved. How about most improved? Your decision making has me spinning in my chair at times, but I look forward to your AAR everyday. Your spelling and geograpical errors will always be remembered.

The thread dudes always cheer me up and remind me to not take myself too seriously, and that in fact, Kansas is boring.. as mentioned above.

Ok...to get to the point of the post.....

I would still cast my vote for Nemo, Dan, and Alfred in terms of game master.







< Message edited by jeffk3510 -- 8/3/2011 3:14:25 PM >


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RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 4:14:24 PM   
Cap Mandrake

 

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This being the 21st Century and all...I think EVERYONE should get an award. Everyone is special, don't ya know.


How about an "Adjusted AE Skill Quotient" (AAESQ)?

That would be some numeric rating of demonstrated skill in AE (perhaps a community vote normalized to a mean of 100) divided by full scale IQ. Players could dig up their 3rd grade IQ scores (if their parents weren't too ashamed to share them with them) and submit them to some trusted forum referee. For older members who might have some cognitive decline they could submit a more recent test from a licensed psychologist.

Then, the referee would publish the results with secret ID numbers emailed to the members so nobody would get their feelings hurt.


Lastly, I would strongly advise against a "Most Improved" award. I once won that two years in a row in football and I am finally just emerging from therapy over that.

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Post #: 43
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 7:10:36 PM   
vettim89


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

This being the 21st Century and all...I think EVERYONE should get an award. Everyone is special, don't ya know.

When everyone is special ...... then no one will be

-Skippy/Syndrome, The Incredibles


How about an "Adjusted AE Skill Quotient" (AAESQ)?

That would be some numeric rating of demonstrated skill in AE (perhaps a community vote normalized to a mean of 100) divided by full scale IQ. Players could dig up their 3rd grade IQ scores (if their parents weren't too ashamed to share them with them) and submit them to some trusted forum referee. For older members who might have some cognitive decline they could submit a more recent test from a licensed psychologist.

Then, the referee would publish the results with secret ID numbers emailed to the members so nobody would get their feelings hurt.

Like the NFL QB rating sytem. Would a perfect AAESQ be 158.8?


Lastly, I would strongly advise against a "Most Improved" award. I once won that two years in a row in football and I am finally just emerging from therapy over that.

AAC!!!



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Post #: 44
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 7:27:40 PM   
vettim89


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I would have to agree that there truly is more than one type of "Grandmaster". There are the highly skilled players who awe us with their prowess and audacity in game like PZB, John3, Nemo, Admiral Spruance, Canoerebel, and many others. Then there are the WitP/AE mentors who give sage advice and display elite knowledge of the game systems, strategies, and tactics like Alfred, Nemo (again), and numerous others. There are the two groups working on the utilities: Tracker and Combat Reporter (love those guys). How about the Devs and modders like Andrew Brown, Joe W, Dixie, JWE, Don Bowen, Treespider, et al? Then there are those that entertain us like Cuttlefish, Cap'n Mandrake, and 1275PSI (Herbisan)

Maybe what we should do is have an annual awards show like the Oscars? Nominees for each category. Remember, it is an honor to just be nominated

< Message edited by vettim89 -- 8/3/2011 7:39:13 PM >


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RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 10:45:26 PM   
cantona2


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Id like to renominate Alfred, his advice is always sound and always put forward in a friendly manner.

I would also like to nominate Fletcher, his attention to detail is second to none!!!!! Local Yokel is also one hell of a JFB player.


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Post #: 46
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/3/2011 11:20:26 PM   
SqzMyLemon


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I too feel that Alfred and Nemo are to be high on the list, if not the top. Being a new player myself, I have to say I've learned things about the game from every person here that I've had the pleasure to interact with, but the true understanding of the game mechanics and strategic analysis applied while playing the game have to go to Nemo in my opinion. I'd like to nominate Alfred, but I'd also dearly like to see him in a match first. Not to prove him wrong, but to actually see his brilliant analysis in action. He's like the Wizard of Oz, is he truly omnipotent, or just some charlatan hiding behind a curtain? I want to know .

With that said, and perhaps it's best started in another thread, but I'll throw this out here. I'd be curious to learn from the community who they'd like to see play each other. What's a match up that you'd love to see, one that in your minds eye would answer the question as to who's a grandmaster, or to settle the question of whose a better player among the next lower tier than grandmaster?


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RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 3:04:05 AM   
Mynok


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I'd love to see PzB vs Canoe.


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Post #: 48
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 4:33:51 AM   
John 3rd


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It is nice to see a genuinely positive and pleasant Thread running on this topic. Nice work everyone. It is a pleasaure to read.

There is another area that might need some consideration: Modders.

There is a nice-sized group who have come together with differing visions to create their own version of reality. The scholarship, research skills, and Editor knowledge displayed has amazed me time and again. For the last 18 months I have been consumed with Reluctant Admiral and now the Perfect War Mod. Watching the work done on Da Babes and other Mods makes me truly understand and appreciate all that hard work to simply fulfill a vision or dream within the world of AE.

For my votes I would reach far back to my original teacher in UV and WitP: Moses. He taught me a lot and though nothing has been seen of him for years, I do hope him the best. My other votes would go to JWE and Juan who have always been willing to volunteer their time, help, and consideration. FatR fits into that model as well.

Over some very rough years my experience with my former opponent CR (Dan), Economics Minister Michael (NYGiants) and Paul Layne has taught how this Forum can truly develop strong friendships and a support network.

Keep up the Thread and we'll see where it goes!

< Message edited by John 3rd -- 8/4/2011 4:51:04 AM >


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Post #: 49
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 8:00:48 AM   
Insano

 

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It's been mentioned before, but in the spirit of community recognition I will be quick to heap praise on floydg and n01487477. Absolutely first rate product and support with Tracker. And as far as I can tell they do it on a volunteer basis. Many (most?) of us could not even play this game without Tracker. To say well done to these guys doesn't even begin to do it justice.

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Post #: 50
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 2:18:57 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Insano

It's been mentioned before, but in the spirit of community recognition I will be quick to heap praise on floydg and n01487477. Absolutely first rate product and support with Tracker. And as far as I can tell they do it on a volunteer basis. Many (most?) of us could not even play this game without Tracker. To say well done to these guys doesn't even begin to do it justice.

+1


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Post #: 51
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 2:20:08 PM   
John 3rd


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+2

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Post #: 52
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 2:53:13 PM   
Canoerebel


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I'm seeing some names in here I'm not familiar with - Cobra, for instance.  Never heard of him, but I was on the periphery during the UV era, and came to WitP relatively late (2007), so I do not know alot of the players who were the "big guns" of the earlier era.

The one game I want to see is Alfred vs. Nemo. 

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 53
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 2:56:36 PM   
Paladin1dcs


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From: Charleston, WV
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89

I would have to agree that there truly is more than one type of "Grandmaster". There are the highly skilled players who awe us with their prowess and audacity in game like PZB, John3, Nemo, Admiral Spruance, Canoerebel, and many others. Then there are the WitP/AE mentors who give sage advice and display elite knowledge of the game systems, strategies, and tactics like Alfred, Nemo (again), and numerous others. There are the two groups working on the utilities: Tracker and Combat Reporter (love those guys). How about the Devs and modders like Andrew Brown, Joe W, Dixie, JWE, Don Bowen, Treespider, et al? Then there are those that entertain us like Cuttlefish, Cap'n Mandrake, and 1275PSI (Herbisan)

Maybe what we should do is have an annual awards show like the Oscars? Nominees for each category. Remember, it is an honor to just be nominated

I'd like to second this idea. As a new player to AE and new to the forums in general, it's great to know who is generally considered to be a Grandmaster at the game, but it's more useful to know who's better at conveying their hard earned experience in a manner which most of us can use. I loved reading about the Hibiki and am really looking forward to seeing how CF handles writing from the Allied PoV, but great creative writing doesn't help a new player improve on the basics of the game.

Perhaps, as vettim89 mentioned, we need separate categories for each specialty with the title of Grandmaster reserved for those who display all of the aspects of a true master, from a refined understanding of the game mechanics to a detailed understanding of grand strategy. Most importantly though, they would need to be willing and able to teach those of us who are just starting out how to analyze a situation and arrive at the correct decision in the same manner that the GM has done.

(in reply to vettim89)
Post #: 54
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 2:58:21 PM   
Paladin1dcs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The one game I want to see is Alfred vs. Nemo. 

I think all of us want to see this match, I know I'd just about kill to see it.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 55
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 3:13:00 PM   
Lomri

 

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I've lurked since the UV days, and while I have a terrible memory for names, folks who write AARs really do need special recognition. I really enjoyed UV but I remember almost having more fun reading some peoples AARs back in the day. I think it is really inspired me and made WitP more accessible. I sure wish I remember the names of the first AARs I read. Maybe Mogami? Speedy? Maybe it was a match between an Ozzie and a Kiwi?

So while this thread started talking about excellent players, I wanted to second (or fifth or whatever) the sentiment that AARs are a valuable contribution to the community. Plus, without them, how would you even know what constitutes "best" play?

(in reply to Paladin1dcs)
Post #: 56
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 3:24:01 PM   
Cap Mandrake

 

Posts: 17137
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
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And I'd like to be the first to thank my mother for not vacuuming up all the counters from Afrika Korps, though I still never figured out what happened to the Recce Bn of 15th Panzer.

Oh, and the AE team too. Fantastic effort! And their mothers too!


As for learning how to play the game, one should not underestimate the value of getting your booty kicked a few times...just be careful with the carriers. The game is such an undertaking that the best thing to do, in my opinion, is just to have fun. When you dont know something just ask....then you wont have to read the manual.

(in reply to Paladin1dcs)
Post #: 57
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 3:32:08 PM   
Lomri

 

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Joined: 2/6/2009
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No one tell Cap that the manual also lists codes you can enter that unlocks the secret Japanese vacuum sub. It sneaks up under your ships and creates a giant whirlpool and poof your ship is gone. These messages do not show up in your Ops Report or Combat Report so you may not even know if your opponent is using them.


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 58
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 4:00:05 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9796
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
What would a Cuttlefish vs. CapMandrake game be like?


(in reply to Lomri)
Post #: 59
RE: AE Grandmaster - 8/4/2011 5:13:23 PM   
Cap Mandrake

 

Posts: 17137
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lomri


No one tell Cap that the manual also lists codes you can enter that unlocks the secret Japanese vacuum sub. It sneaks up under your ships and creates a giant whirlpool and poof your ship is gone. These messages do not show up in your Ops Report or Combat Report so you may not even know if your opponent is using them.




I at first thought young Lomri was having sport with us....but lo! Whirpool.txt I had previously ascribed these types of happenings to time portals or cloaking devices.






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(in reply to Lomri)
Post #: 60
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