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RE: IJN Troops

 
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RE: IJN Troops - 10/20/2011 3:03:35 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

I agree, this infringes too much on the Army's territory. A less politically volatile decision might be forming less garrizon units and more south seas garrizons on the Army side, with latter having better armament and providing greater flexibility in deployment, but probably lacking ability to convert to divisions later (as some of the garrizon units can). As about atoll defense units, maybe keep the infantry contingent slightly smaller than in their base SNLF, but add heavier weapons?


I concur with this, however, if the IJA is only two years embroiled in the China War then don't you think they'll be more focused there then even IRL with the Pacific?

Am not wedded to the idea at all just think we need to think things through with the changes so far as well as the China work that is on-going.



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New Topics - 10/20/2011 3:23:50 PM   
John 3rd


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With doing a bunch of the work for the Allied Side, I've had time to think and go through the map. Doing this has prompted questions and proposals:

A. New Aircraft and Units:
The Allies are going to start the war with about 200 additional planes. Roughly half are French and the remainder are new planes added to existing squadrons in the Phil and Malaya as well as the addition of 4 new squadrons in the same areas. This has made me think of what the Japanese would have been able to get done through the extra time bought without China. Proposal:

1. We bring the 9th Air Fleet from RA to this Mod. This would mean a HQ, 3 Air Flotilla, and 3 large BF for LCU and the addition of 3 Zero Daitai, 2 Betty/Nell Daitai, 3 Chutai of Mavis/Emily, 3 Chutai of Jakes, 1 Daitai of Vals, and 1 Daitai of Kates: 261 Planes. In RA we start these units at cadre strength in Kyushu where they must fillout and train up to combat ability. We could do that or consider that they are already there and deploy them--as a massed unit--to somewhere on the map.

2. Create a large, new Army Air unit in China. Similar thought in that it serves to coordinate the air war in China. This group would have a HQ, several Air Divisions, and BF concentrated around some location in China. Reflecting airframe needs and issues, it could start with 2 Sentai of Fighters, 4 Sentai of Bombers (2 'heavy' like Lily or Sally and 2 lite like Ida or Mary) and 2 Chutai of Recon planes): 204 planes.

B. 1st Imperial Mobile Army
As spoken of earlier, bring the 1st and 2nd TK Div forward so they are already formed as well as create a pair of mobile divisions from 4 Ind TK Reg and 2 Ind Inf Reg for use in the China War. This Army would have its own HQ but not require more manpower as the units are already created and on the board IRL.

C. If the idea to develop the Naval Guard and SNLF troops in new directions goes south then we are back to the earlier proposal at the top of the previous page for the creation of an Imperial Army Amphib Corps of 3-5 Brigades assigned to the Pacific for IJN use. Start with 3 developed Brigades and then have two more added in 1942. Figure this is the army placating the Navy while it fights in China. These units could be created in lieu of an equal number of Ind Regiments that start in China.

D. Fleet Deployment
Stanislav has detailed the changes to the Imperial Fleet. I think we need to examine preliminary starting locations and specific deployment questions considering the Japanese start with several additional heavy units (BB/CV). The Allies have gotten a true shot in the arm for Fleet strength with the additions to Force Z, the French, and American Navies. This needs to be thought about.

I've got more topics but this serves to get us started.



< Message edited by John 3rd -- 10/20/2011 3:25:40 PM >


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RE: IJN Troops - 10/20/2011 4:56:53 PM   
Kereguelen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Besides, where are the extra men coming from?


Was manpower ever a true Japanese problem? Seemed to me they were able to raise the troops without issue they just couldn't keep up with leadership. I might be wrong here but I haven't read much describing a manpower issue.



If I remember correctly, the average age of the IJN soldiers (frome the Naval Garrison Unit and small detachment of a SNLF there) encountered by the US Marines on Guadalcanal in the initial stages of Watchtower was well over 40 years. Probably the same in the other Naval Garrison Units.

And the IJA did have serious manpower shortages when it came to trained manpower. Ever wondered why Japan (despite the size of its population) did not raise any new divisions until 1944 (they formed some from existing regiments when they triangularilized existing divisions before)? Full mobilization only started in 1945.

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RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: What is the Vision? - 10/21/2011 3:51:42 AM   
tophat21

 

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the other thing too figure out is how is the civil war progressing in the 2 years....how many more people and troops have been killed and which side is doing better the commies or the nationals....if we go with the notion that the civil war has heated up the ija will have an easier time due to the troops being fatigued...also they might not need to be as brutel with population due to war fatigue.the infra structure expansion might be where we can tweek the economy for japan by china building the infra in the extra 2 years before war.

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RE: IJN Troops - 10/21/2011 9:25:51 AM   
FatR

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I concur with this, however, if the IJA is only two years embroiled in the China War then don't you think they'll be more focused there then even IRL with the Pacific?

If war with the westen powers is recognized as inevitable, and IJN is less reluctant to admit that it can't defend the Pacific perimeter without Army's help (as it was IRL), why not? This type of detachments exited IRL already, after all.

One more thing about ground units, just so I won't forget - assuming better thought-out occupation policies, how about adding Indonesian/Burmese/Viet nationalist militia units, similar to those from Scen 2 to Japanese forces in late 1942-43? Not that they are very useful, of course, but they can help to guard against diversionary attacks...

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RE: The PERFECT WAR Mod: What is the Vision? - 10/21/2011 11:34:49 AM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tophat21

the other thing too figure out is how is the civil war progressing in the 2 years....how many more people and troops have been killed and which side is doing better the commies or the nationals....if we go with the notion that the civil war has heated up the IJA will have an easier time due to the troops being fatigued...also they might not need to be as brutal with population due to war fatigue. The infrastructure expansion might be where we can tweek the economy for Japan by China building the infra in the extra 2 years before war.



Point of fact..., the IJA never NEEDED to be "brutal"..., it simply WAS brutal! Mostly due to the way it's soldiers were treated by it's superiors. If you are beaten for every minor infraction and told it's your duty and destiny to die for the Emperor, you soon have very little sympathy for anyone else..., especially if you have also been convinced since childhood that the Japanese are superior to every other race you encounter.

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RE: IJN Troops - 10/21/2011 11:44:44 AM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR
One more thing about ground units, just so I won't forget - assuming better thought-out occupation policies, how about adding Indonesian/Burmese/Viet nationalist militia units, similar to those from Scen 2 to Japanese forces in late 1942-43? Not that they are very useful, of course, but they can help to guard against diversionary attacks...


This would be a HUGE assumption (Kinda like ASSUMING the Nazi's got over their hatred of Jews). The Japanese were trained from birth to regard other races as "inferior" and fit only to plow fields and carry water. Ask an old Korean about "Co-Prosperity"..., they got to enjoy 40 years of it. Virtually none of the forces that cooperated with the Japanese did so from love of the Japanese. Most who joined were already anti-Colonialists who hated the British or the Dutch---and the rest sought better living conditions by just "going with the flow". All were soon cured of any delusion that the Japanese were an improvement.

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RE: IJN Troops - 10/21/2011 3:17:31 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR
One more thing about ground units, just so I won't forget - assuming better thought-out occupation policies, how about adding Indonesian/Burmese/Viet nationalist militia units, similar to those from Scen 2 to Japanese forces in late 1942-43? Not that they are very useful, of course, but they can help to guard against diversionary attacks...


This would be a HUGE assumption (Kinda like ASSUMING the Nazi's got over their hatred of Jews). The Japanese were trained from birth to regard other races as "inferior" and fit only to plow fields and carry water. Ask an old Korean about "Co-Prosperity"..., they got to enjoy 40 years of it. Virtually none of the forces that cooperated with the Japanese did so from love of the Japanese. Most who joined were already anti-Colonialists who hated the British or the Dutch---and the rest sought better living conditions by just "going with the flow". All were soon cured of any delusion that the Japanese were an improvement.



Wow: Mike that was pretty vividly descriptive. I must agree with you that changing the entire behavior of something that was seemingly bred into the Army should be impossible. As much as I like this idea I don't think it is practical and/or realistic.

Am home today so I plan to do some Mod work.


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RE: IJN Troops - 10/21/2011 3:20:10 PM   
John 3rd


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My thoughts are to work with what I've listed above:

1. 9th Air Fleet
2. Creation of the Chinese Air Army (probably at Shanghai or Canton)
3. Creation of the Mobile Army
4. BB Upgrade for the Big Four of the US Fleet

Stanislav: Do you have notes from your earlier Postings as to how many MORE warships the Japanese start with on Dec 7th?


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RE: IJN Troops - 10/21/2011 7:03:47 PM   
kfsgo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

My thoughts are to work with what I've listed above:

2. Creation of the Chinese Air Army (probably at Shanghai or Canton)
3. Creation of the Mobile Army



Ok, I'm away this weekend - so, a few things to think about, bearing in mind that 'Blackhorse China' looks something like this (linked on acct of being huge):

- Politics: What is Wang Jingwei's driver for revolt against the KMT government? It's obviously quite difficult to trace the individual motivations of Chinese political figures of the time, what with not speaking the language, but the sense I get of the guy is that he was basically pessimistic about China's chances in the war after a year+ of being rolled - which is sensible enough, in a way, but doesn't really explain why he's off trying to start up a puppet government in the heart of the current government's political powerbase (the KMT is a Hangzhou-Shanghai-Nanjing sort of creation, not one born out of the countryside!) before war has erupted. Frankly I think he'd have gotten himself offed on a very short timescale if something like this happened - the Chinese population was much more anti-Japanese, politically, than the leadership was.

The KMT-Communist split is also in one of its quieter periods from 1936-1942 or so; there are incidents and trust is in fairly short supply, but there's mostly a sense that the Japanese are the bigger problem.

- Geography: the changes amount to switching bases; theoretically there are no changes to troop levels. Not much work, but liable to cause some problems - to what extent is this likely to result in the Japanese just overrunning the (thinned-out) Chinese army within a few weeks? If that's likely - why exactly have the Japanese not bothered occupying half of the North China plain before now? It's open country and conceptually much easier ground to cover for a "mobile" force, as the IJA effectively was in China ("mobile" is relative, obviously - we're talking an army with semi-reliable access to horses and carts, which the IJA was and the Chinese by and large weren't!)

- Industry: To tie into the point above, the real-life Chinese "army" (insofar as there was one) of 1941-42 - which theoretically hasn't changed - is not undermanned, even with the loss of most of China's population and industry - there are something like 4.5 million soldiers and conscription can be relied on for about 500,000 new ones per year from Szechwan alone. What it is is underfed and dizzyingly underarmed - those 4.5m have varying standards of equipment - but no more than 1.5m have rifles, for example, and that number wobbled around mid-high six figures for 1942-44. If the Japanese don't control Wuhan and have been kept out of Shanxi long enough for the evacuation of the armaments industry there Chinese production is liable to be significantly greater - and equipment losses significantly lower - end result being that you should in practice end up with a larger army with a more solid replacement pool. Is Japan (the political beast, not the player) comfortable with the situation?

- Trade: China received a lot of equipment - hundreds of aircraft and tanks paid for by loans - from the USSR in the 37-39 period. That supply dried up for a while after the M-R Pact, ie Sept. 39, and was just beginning to look like it might start flowing again when the German invasion cut things off for good. I'm not sure how you write past that hump considering availability effectively ends when the war begins - did the Japanese do something Very Serious on the Russian border? That seems like a good excuse for manufacturing your armoured divisions - but what happened to prompt doing it? If the Russian supplies come in later - how many of the 'gadgets' remain in use?

Similarly, there's going to be less of a drive towards building any infrastructure through Yunnan into Burma in the 37-39 period - why bother? - and that's going to have effects on the ability of the US and UK to provide any asssistance through a Japanese blockade. Effectively you need to keep Hong Kong available until basically the start of the game for that supply chain to flow - and for that to be meaningful you need continued Chinese control of Canton and the railway northwards. That's doable - it was taken effectively unopposed by the Japanese since the SW Clique armies were off participating in the defense of Wuhan, and we can imagine IJHQ not wanting yet another Shanghai - but there are consequences to it - in 'how does Japan approach potentially contested waters' and 'how more independent are the SW warlords' respects.

- What is the actual Japanese motivation in getting involved in China in a big way? It's apparently not so much military, since they haven't bothered expanding their North China buffer much; it's not so much commercial, since they've just flattened the hub of Chinese commerce with a year-long urban campaign. Is it just that they want a table to tip over?

I have a "crazy" China scenario that sorta evades most of these issues, but it'd represent a fairly radical shift in the way the theater plays which I'm not sure people (especially people who need to have something to break every other week) would like. Remember - implementing the Blackhorse plan without thinking too hard about the details is just a matter of a couple of hours' work, so it's always an (easy) option. Anyway, I'm sure I can think of more questions by the time I get back...

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RE: IJN Troops - 10/21/2011 7:14:23 PM   
John 3rd


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Nice! Does anyone with a strong sense of China have any thoughts regarding this commentary? Need to think on it myself before responding.

Have spent the morning working on the Mod. Things done:

1. 9th Air Fleet created and deployed to Saigon area.
2. Moved a bunch of aircraft and units around in Indochina, Formosa, and Babeldoap/Peleliu areas.
3. Created the 7th Air Army based in the Shanghai area. Have not added many new aircraft here just simply working to get the established China Air attached to it. KFSGO: I'm moving nearly all of the China Air to the Shanghai vicinity to make it easier for you to move stuff around when that happens.
4. Worked up the Big 4 Upgrade as well as started working on the Atoll Defense Units.


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RE: IJN Troops - 10/22/2011 7:25:04 AM   
Jo van der Pluym


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Michael and I had a good chat yesterday and a couple of interesting ideas occurred due to the conversation. We were speaking about the IJN Troops and came up with an interesting proposal. Since the Navy and Army didn't trust each other and the Navy is now planning to fight an attritional war, the Infantry units of the Kaigun are completely overhauled. Here is the proposal:

1. SNLF Units are deployed at the start of the war as normal. As we have discussed, those units are then withdrawn to make room for the creation of Atoll Defence Forces. There will be two types of these units:



What about Yokosuka paratroopers? do you these also withdraw for the creation of Atoll Defence Forces?
My suggestion is to made it a brigade sized airborne firebrigade


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RE: IJN Troops - 10/22/2011 1:40:28 PM   
John 3rd


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That is a pretty fair idea. Like it.


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RE: IJN Troops - 10/23/2011 3:26:57 PM   
MateDow


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kfsgo

- Industry: To tie into the point above, the real-life Chinese "army" (insofar as there was one) of 1941-42 - which theoretically hasn't changed - is not undermanned, even with the loss of most of China's population and industry - there are something like 4.5 million soldiers and conscription can be relied on for about 500,000 new ones per year from Szechwan alone. What it is is underfed and dizzyingly underarmed - those 4.5m have varying standards of equipment - but no more than 1.5m have rifles, for example, and that number wobbled around mid-high six figures for 1942-44. If the Japanese don't control Wuhan and have been kept out of Shanxi long enough for the evacuation of the armaments industry there Chinese production is liable to be significantly greater - and equipment losses significantly lower - end result being that you should in practice end up with a larger army with a more solid replacement pool. Is Japan (the political beast, not the player) comfortable with the situation?


Maybe come up with two different types of Chinese squads? One that has weapons and another type that doesn't? You could make the weaponless squads be replaced pretty quickly, while ones with weapons are replaced by convoy (or other such mechanism).

I don't know how the combat model would handle it, so that would need to be tested. If it works, it might provide a good mechanism for modeling the unarmed masses of the Chinese Army. In this scenario, it would make units that retained a core of armed fighters much more valuable. It would also give the Chinese "hollow" units that can run around the countryside occupying unoccupied towns, but being unable to hold them against any resistance.

quote:

- Trade: China received a lot of equipment - hundreds of aircraft and tanks paid for by loans - from the USSR in the 37-39 period. That supply dried up for a while after the M-R Pact, ie Sept. 39, and was just beginning to look like it might start flowing again when the German invasion cut things off for good. I'm not sure how you write past that hump considering availability effectively ends when the war begins - did the Japanese do something Very Serious on the Russian border? That seems like a good excuse for manufacturing your armoured divisions - but what happened to prompt doing it? If the Russian supplies come in later - how many of the 'gadgets' remain in use?


See the above about ideas for the use of weapon convoys. Similar in the sense that we model the CW nations.

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RE: IJN Troops - 10/24/2011 3:11:55 PM   
John 3rd


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Up for the day and have it off. Plan to keep moving down the list of things. Will create the IJA 'Amphib' Corps today, Japanese Coastal Command, as well as other things.


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The Kaigun: Perfect War Style - 10/24/2011 5:30:46 PM   
John 3rd


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Just went through the entire Thread writing notes. I decided to cut-and-paste the Fleet summaries so we have it all in one Posting:


CVs
You forgot Junyo and Hiyo in both calculations for both sides. Technically, Hiryu-class Zuiho and Shoho can and should be available at the start. They will actually occupy shipyards for less combined time, than shadow rebuilds. And they will be laid down instead of them, i.e., four years before the war. And repeat Shokaku carriers, laid down in late 1940 can be completed in winter - early spring of 1943 (construction of Unryu too 2 years, but here it will be slightly slower). That's what I envisioned, and that's the gameplay reason I'm opposed to making Ryujo so big.

What I see, at the opening of hostilities:
Stock:
Akagi (81),Kaga (72), Soryu (63), Hiryu (71), Shokaku (72), Zuikaku (72), Ryujo (48), Zuiho (30), Hosho (20), Taiyo (27) = 556

Mod:
Akagi (81), Atago (64), Soryu (63), Hiryu (71), repeat Hiryu 1 (71), repeat Hiryu 2 (71), Shokaku (72), Zuikaku (72), Ryujo (48), Hosho (20) = 633

Added later in 1942

Stock:
Junyo (53), Hiyo (53), Shoho (30), Ryuho (31), Unyo (27), Chuyo (27) = 221

Mod:
Junyo (53), Hiyo (53) = 106

Total by the end of 1942, assuming no losses:

Stock: 773
Mod: 739

Considering that Taiyo-class escort carriers did not have active airgroups IRL, stock and mod almost break even. In the beginning disparity is greater than I thought, but even 70 planes are hardly impossible to produce, when there are obvious solutions for that (see above).

From gameplay perspective Japan actually falls behind in the number of carrier planes by the end of 1942, but these planes are based on much superior platforms. Japanese carrier fleet will fare much better in 1943 and later.

I'm assuming here that Ryujo in the mod can honestly carry 48 planes.

So, the updated OOB of IJN's capital ships:

BBs
BatDiv1--Nagato, Mutsu, Kaga, Tosa
BatDiv2--Ise, Hyuga, Fuso, Yamashiro (None of them modified past the first modernization, and adding a couple of AAMGs, conversion options present from the start)
BatDiv3--Kongo, Hiei, Haruna, Kirishima
BatDiv4--Available: Owari, Satsuma. In construction: Musashi (7/42), Shinano (4/43). As discussed above.

We have all needed art for the battleships.

CAs/CLs
CruDiv1: (Myoko-Class) Myoko, Nachi, Haguro, Ashigara
CruDiv2: (Takao-Class) Takao, Atago, Maya, Chokai
CruDiv3: (15x155 Mogamis, built to displace 10k standard from the beginning): Mogami, Mikuma, Suzuya, Kumano
CruDiv4: (Old CAs, armed as IRL) Aoba, Kinugasa, Kako, Furutaka
CruDiv5: (12x203mm super-CA class) Available: Niitaka, Iwaki. In construction: Hikari (3/42), Kurama (10/42).

Leaders of torpedo divisions: Yubari, Naka, Sendai, Jintsu, Isuzu. The latter four are slightly modernized.

Training cruisers: Kuma, Tama, Kitakami

To be assigned to carrier divisions as recon/AA defense/command center ships there are four CLAAs in construction: Yahagi (6/42), Agano (12/42), Sakawa (2/44), Oyodo (8/44).

In reconstruction as CLAAs/torpedo cruisers, whatever the player prefers: Nagara, Kitakami, Natori, Yura, Kinu, Abukuma.

Reconstructed as AS: Oi, Kiso

Reconstructed as CM: Tenryu, Tatsuta.

Art needed: for both classes of new cruisers, reconstructed ASs and reconstructed CMs.

The proposed OOB clearly goes past the historical Japanese budget for capital ship construction in the areas of pre-treaty BBs completed according to the modifed Washington treaty (2 extra BBs are completed), and post-treaty cruiser construction (10 ships are replaced with 8 of comparable combined tonnage and with considerably more expensive armament). Hopefully, pre-treaty BBs being well on the way to completion and absence of expensive Mogamis rebuilds and rearming will keep these deviations small enough to be plausible (particularly with the overall better economic situation we're engineering for late thirties).

Comparison with RL:
10 modernized old BBs available + 2 new BBs in construction IRL. 8 modernized old BBs, 2 new BBs, 4 unmodernized old BBs available + 2 new BBs in construction in the mod.

4 small CAs, 14 large CAs available IRL. 4 small CAs, 10 large CAs, 4 large CLs available + 2 large CAs under construction in the mod.

18 old CLs available + 5 CLs under construction IRL. 5 old CLs available + 6 old CLs under reconstruction + 4 CLAAs under construction in the mod.

We see a stronger battleline, little change to A-grade cruisers, and considerable reduction of B-grade cruiser strength before beginning of the war. Arguably that is the logical results of greater battleship tonnage allowed, but still, Japanese light forces are actually weakened. The need for building more large destroyers is pressing.

DDs
So a rough destroyer proposal, modified for new 120/45 Type 90 and 120/55 Type 98 guns.

Modification of old DDs - execute modifications described previously, but 120/45 Type 90 replaces 127/40 Type 89. Otori-class TBs are not built. As not building any new light cruisers frees alot of extra resources, also reconstruct 12 Mutsuki-class DDs shortly before the war, replacing old gun armament with 2x2 120/45 Type 90 (one fore, one aft), 2x2 25/60, 2x1 13.2/76, 18 DCs. Accept speed reduction due to extra weight.

Building of modern DDs until Hatsuharu - as RL (23 Special Type DDs).

6 Hatsuharus - modified as DDAA, with 3x2 120/45 Type 90 in unshielded mounts, 3x3 25/60, 2x1 13.2/76, 2x3 610mm TTs with no reloads, 36 DCs.

10 Shiratsuyus - 3x2 120/45 Type 90 in properly enclosed turrets, 2x2 25/60, 2x4 610mm TTs with reloads, 16 DCs. Size and design as RL.

10 Asashios - main armament is the same as on the previous class, the main differences are turret positioning and powerplant. Hull is smaller compared to RL, allowing to save materials and achieve greater speed (36-37 knots) with the same power.

20 Kageros - slighly bigger than Asashios, main armament is the same, but the number of depth charges on board is increased to 18. The main differences, as IRL, are lighter engine and greater cruise speed. Savings achieved by building smaller ships start to tell here, allowing to build 2 more DDs (and probably even have extra materials and money left for other projects).

37 Yugumos - design of these ships will be adjusted according to preliminary reports on the war in Europe, if not from the start, then during construction. They will be bigger and slower than Kageros (albeit smaller than RL Yugumos) due to extra armament. Moreover, more robust industry, diverting resources from cruiser construction, in addition to their smaller hull and not building extremely expensive Shimakaze, will allow to construct significantly more of them. 3x2 120/45 Type 90, 2x3 25/60, 2x1 13.2/76, 2x4 610mm TTs with reloads, 36 DCs (1 thrower and 2 racks). The number above includes 20 RL Yugumos, 12 in place of 5 light cruisers (not sure if this is not too few, even after funneling some resources into reconstructions) and 2 in place of Shimakaze. 3 more are added due to savings on hull size/streamlining of production. 7 of these are available before the war, then about 10 per year for next three war years.

Total number of 1-st class (i.e., can fire 610mm torpedoes) DDs available at the opening of hostilities: 88 (80 IRL). Total number of DDs with modern DP armament among them: 65 (basically 0 IRL, around 30 ships, if not less, had guns with limited anti-aircraft capabilities).

16 Akizukis - the size of RL Akizukis or slighly smaller, due to carrying heavier guns. Lack of expanded magazines for the fourth turret will allow to install a bigger and more powerful engine. Alternatively, just use the same 52 000 hps engine and accept the modest drop in speed. Initial armament of 3x2 120/55 Type 98, 3x3 25/60, 4x1 13.2/76, 2x4 610mm TTs with reloads, 72 DCs (2 throwers and 2 racks). Available from summer of 1942, and construction is limited by availability of the new guns.

35 (81) Matsus/Tachibanas - a slightly less bare-bones design, reflecting slightly better economical situation of Japan due to various things going better for her before and during war. The design is accepted earlier, due to Escort Command long crying for new ships, designed to be improved versions of reconstructed escort destroyers, and having designs on hand. But construction is slower, as the existing Yugumo design is more suited for realities of the war than the RL one. First ships are available in autumn of 1943. 35 are built until late spring 1945. 46 more are late-1945 and 1946 ships (going RA route and building only Matsus late in the war, if the player chooses to build anything at all), to a total of 81. About 1450 tons of standard dispacement, 2x2 120/45 Type 89, 4x3 + 6x1 25/60, 1x5 610mm TT without reloads, 60 DCs.

Note on armament: a single 25/60 mount is introduced earlier in this alternative, due to earlier demand for a free-swinging flak weapon, capable of quick aiming, but it is still not available until late 1942. 13.2 MGs (also in limited supply...) are installed instead of it on newly constructed/reconstructed DDs, as well as DDAAs.

While I'm at it, how about the following take on the escort forces and subchasers?

Escorts
CD-A Class (16 ships built before the war, 2 in construction). First ships laid down in 1938-39 according to the specifications created by the Escort Command, instead of Shimushu escorts and Ch-4 (and following) large subchasers, using diesel engines of same power (2600 hps) as the latter, but with the requirement of relatively high range and greater seaworthyness, so that these ships will be able to escorting resupply convoys to Mandates in case of a war (convoys from SRA obviously aren't on the table yet...). This, as well as the requirement of heavier armament, so that new ships won't be outgunned by subs, leads to serious increase in size. Their hull resembles a cross between a Ch-13 subschaser and a RL kaibokan. The design is kept simple, by pre-war standards, due to conflict between doctrines and plans developed by Escort Command with limited funding, not allowing to implement them. Armament removed from reconstructed warships is used for same reason. 800 tons of standard displacement, speed closer to 17kts, range 6000 nms, 1x1 120/45 10YT (on the bow), 1x4 13.2/76, 1x1 40mm Vickers, 18 DCs (an increase to 36 is already planned).

This class obviously replaces Ch-4 and Ch-13 large subchasers.

CD-B class (1 built before the war, 15 in construction, available throughout 1941-42). A version which production launched on merchant shipyards in parallel with Standard Type cargo ships in late 1940, as the part of the same program of ensuring the Empire's economical security in case of a war. Plagued by various flaws and delays, caused by excessive attempts to cut costs and builders' lack of experience, as well as struggles for obtaining their cut of budget until the opening of hostilities. Uses an engine comparable to Ch-13 subchasers, which proves underpowered. Results are less than impressive: 730 tons, 14 kts, range 4800 nms, 1x1 120/45 3YT (due to shortage of high-angle guns), 2x1 40mm Vickers, 1x1 76/40, 36 DCs.

CD-C class (80 available starting from autumn of 1942 and until the end of 1944). Ordered immediately after the initial success in the war becomes clear, in place of Etorofu kaibokans and Ch-28 subchasers. Replaces Etorofu, Mikura and Ch-28 classes. Derived from CD-A, as Escort Command cannot resist the lure of a ship with greater overall performance. 850 tons, 20 kts (engine is less powerful than that of Etorofu/Mikura/Ukuru, about 3400 hps, but size is smaller as well), 7000 nms, 1x1 120/45 10YT, 3x2 25/60, 2x1 13.2/76, 72 DCs.
Take note, that the aft 120mm guns aren't installed on any of the proposed escorts. That's due to doctrine, that commands escorts to engage subs by swiftly closing distance, with the intent to conclude attack by ramming. Therefore aft guns are seen as unnecessary for artillery duels with subs, and against air targets extra 25mm MGs are more effective than 120mm DP guns without real fire directors (IRL, not in the game...). If some sort of modern single-mount 76-88 AA gun will be adopted by Navy in this alternative, it can be installed in the aft position later in the war, instead of more 25/60 triples. Besides more ASW/AA weapons, extra space will be used to expand fuel tanks a bit.

CD-D and CD-E (300+ available starting from early 1943 and until the end of the war). Class CD-B finally done right. A rough equivalent in size, engine power, and capabilities to RL Types C and D, including use of turbine engines on CD-E, due to deficit of diesels, but with armament based on CD-C above, although with less AAMGs initially.

I'm postulating parallel production of two escort classes to keep a link with the reality, to a degree. Tactically, fast and more capable CD-C escorts will be intended to be able to support escort destroyers in protecting fast convoys running to the frontline, (or working in dedicated ASW patrols, when these will be adopted), while other escorts will be meant to defend shipping lanes to SRA.

Cha-1 auxilary subchasers (approximately 200 available, beginning from summer of 1942). No difference from the type in the game. Production starts on small shipyards immediately after the beginning of hostilities, to provide protection from coastal convoys and harbor defense.

Pa-1 patrol boats (approximately 300 available, beginning from early 1944). A replacement class for Cha-1 SCs, using the same engine and built on the same shipyards. Bigger and slower, with 2500 nm radius of action, and armament of 4x1 25/60 and 18 DCs.

So, subs in detal.

SS
First, I think if we accept "Terminus doctrine", torpedo armament will evolve in a different direction. Historically the doctrine called for a large-distance surface attacks against the enemy fleet, therefore new oxygen torpedoes had excessively long range (during the war it was reduced to increase the warhead). Now, as our subs still are primarily aiming at enemy warships, big and heavy torpedoes that can deal massive damage by any succesful hit are still in order, but range requirements will be lesser, allowing to either install a larger warhead from the beginning, or to take more of them onboard. With the doctrine stressing the importance of attacking anything that floats, I think the latter is a more logical choice (albeit less effective in game).

On building program: until 1933-34 it goes as IRL, including an experiment with aircraft-carrying boat (I-5) and home waters defense boats (RO-33 and 34). However, IJN doesn't enter its prolonged stage of doubts about the optimal sub type in thirties. Three Junsen 2/3 subs aren't built because the first one proves disappointing from the viewpoint of the new doctrine. Instead KD6A type is expanded by one boat, and KD6B by two. KD6A/B is the first significantly changed type, as more powerful electric motors and stronger hull to increase underwater speed diving depth slightly further than IRL are used, while hps of diesels and top surface speed do not increase as much. The cruise speed these subs can maintain is increased though, as IRL (actually, IRL these subs had a range of 14000 nm, when maintaining the same 10 knot cruise speed as their precedessors, but they were able to cruise at 14 knots, at the expense of decrease in range).

So, overall, 11 KD6A/B subs are built.

Then comes 1937 and the beginning of the Japanese post-treaties sub-building rush. Two types of subs are laid down are constructed during it. Both include changes in construction similar to KD6 above. I.e., advances in engine design are used to improve underwater speed and maneurability or save space for other improvements, rather than supercharging surface speed (which is kept around 20 knots).

First is C1 type (A1 type in this alternative) attack boats, meant to serve as midget carriers. 6 are laid down and completed before the war. As A/B/C boats were developed from Kaidai, rather than Junsen, no problems with designing them here...

Second is KD7 type. IRL that type seems to be a failure, to be honest... I wonder why it carries less fuel and less torpedoes than KD6, without real increases in anything else, and no books on Japanese subs I've read explain this. Speed is, however, higher than that of KD6, despite bigger size and less powerful engines. Can it be a case of someone misreading its stats and the mistake then propagating across various books? Anyway, in the mod, this series should basically repeat modified KD6B, except with all-forward torpedo tubes and diving depth standartized to that of A1.
This class will replace 22 A/B subs and 8 RL KD7 subs laid down before the war. However, this budget also must provide for 2 ARs and 4 new ASs, which will cost about as much as 8 attack subs. The remaining money will be sufficient to fund construction of approximately 32 KD subs (exchanging big subs for medium ones at 2:3 proportion). Hopefully, smaller size and faster construction will enable to complete 2/3rds of this number before the opening of hostilities.

The number of available subs on 7/12/1941 therefore will be:

11 large submarines (5 old patrol subs of J1/J1M class and 6 midget-carrying A1 subs)
47 fleet submarines (of KD3 and latter types)
4 sub minelayers
2 coastal submarines

One thing I'm pondering here is exchanging 2 fleet subs for 2 sub minelayers of a more decent design in mid-30s... Mine warfare definitely should get greater attention if a protracted war is expected.

Amphibious Ships

0)Navy retains the overall control over construction and and maintenance of amphibious ships. They are staffed by IJN personnel and carry Navy's weapon models. Their operational use is regulated by a special Army-Navy agreement.

1)LSDs Shinshu Maru, Akitsu Maru and Nigitsu Maru. IRL Shinshu Maru was supposed to have floatplane tender capabilities, but never carries floatplanes IRL (this ship was owned by the Army, so it is not clear what it was even supposed to operate). Akitsu Maru and Nigitsu Maru had flight decks, but could serve only as aircraft ferries, until upgrades in 1943, which allowed them to operate Ki-76s and autogyros. In the game Shinshu Maru has no aircraft capacity, and the latter two operate floatplanes. Unfortunately, it is not possible to restrict a carrier to using certain types of aircraft. The last two ships confound me somewhat. On the first look fitting them with flight decks seems almost pointless, but Japanese seemingly saw them as valuable.
Anyway, I propose building Shinshu Maru as IRL, and Akitsu/Nigitsu Maru as its direct successors, with actual capability to use floatplanes (as IJN actually owns these). Maybe development of float fighters is given somewhat higher priority to hopefully give this amphibious force some teeth. Kumano Maru is reconstructed along the same lines later in thw war.

2)Historical ships Mayasan, Tamatsu, Kibitsu, Hyuga, Settsu and Tokitsu Marus are added to construction queue as LSDs (we already added some of them in RA). Another RL landing ship apparently missing from stock, Takatsu Maru is added as an AP or APA.

3)Let's build a series of dedicated Type 0 APDs, capable of deploying landing barges, both to serve as a vanguard of ambitious operations, and to supply island garrizons if control of seas around them is temporarily ceded during a protracted campaign. Build 10-12 of them, using a simplified Shiratsuyu-class destroyer hull and an engine half as powerful. Half should be available before the opening of hostilities. The experience gained should also allow to start production of Type 1 APDs much sooner (mid-1943).

4)I thought about adding a pair of special-project 11 000-ton LSDs as a part of pre-war auxilary construction program, mentioned in the submarine proposal above. But I'm going considerably past the RL budget here. In fact, we do that with #3 above. And #3 is more important. So, while there are provisions for greater Japanese economical capabilities in this alternative, I'm reluctant about this.


Mine Warfare Ships

1)Okinoshima and Tsugaru are replaced by converted Tenryu and Tatsuta as fast minelayers.

2)I noticed that four-ship Hatsushima class of cable/net/minelayers is absent from the base DaBabes scenario. They weren't that useful for mine warfare, but let's include them.

3)W-classes minesweepers are not completely repurposed as escorts. Instead remove both their aft and amidships 120/45 guns, around 1943, replacing them with Y-guns, but keep sweeps.
EDIT: IRL these ships were repurposed as escorts, because the Allies did not put much effort into the mine warfare until the aerial mining campaign against Home Islands in 1945. In the game Allied players usually are much more active with offensive or defensive mining, or both. I personally forbit mid-war upgrades to W-clases DMSs, which turn them to Es.
As a side note, I don't know if it is possible to simulate ineffectiveness of traditional minesweeping methods against late-war US mines. Does a mine's Accuracy stat impacts its ability to hit a sweeping ship first?

4)No late mid-1943 give a serious thought to simplifying and streamlining mine warfare vessel production, bringing it in line with measures already taken to make destroyers and so on more affordable. Start laying down the equivalent of maximally simplified Kamishima-class CMs in autumn of 1943 (available in late spring of 1944) and use the same basic hull to construct AMs as well. Stop construction of W-19 class DMS past W-30, and instead build these cheap AMs in numbers.
EDIT: As Type 4 and Type 93 mines are not interchangeable, we need two versions of the same type, carrying one or another.

5)I also really think that a small production run of fast DMs, similar in dimensions and propulsion to the above-described Type 0 APDs would be really nice, but again, this is just adding ships from nowhere, particularly if done before the war. And I don't think IJN can afford to cut the destroyer production for this. Maybe we instead can take a half-dozen of old Momi/Wakatake destroyers, and instead of conversion into P.51 escorts, as described in the destroyer proposal, expand their mine load (they could carry mines in the initial design), but I'm not sure their speed will be enough to operate on the frontline, instead of escorting ships on inner communications.


Torpedo Boats

Built in greater numbers, instead of midgets, as in RA. One thing we overlooked there was Shinyo boats - as the naval combat model does not include ramming, I propose modelling them as low-accuracy CD guns, rather than ships. And their units as CD units, accordingly.


Cargo Ships

The first program of standard-type merchants construction is started in autumn of 1940 by Transport Ministry, and first it honestly doubles as the state-sponsored program of ensuring independence of Japan from foreign shipping, in case of breakdown of relations with the westen powers. Second War Standard Program is adopted in November of 1941, immediately after the decision to fight the war is made, thanks to the general assumption of a prolonged war. As the result, there are more cargo ships in the queue.
Also, AA armament of the most valuable large cargo ships and tankers is increased in 1943-44, with ineffective 13.2 MGs gradually replaced by 25/60 singles.


< Message edited by John 3rd -- 10/24/2011 5:34:04 PM >


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Post #: 496
Changes Completed - 10/24/2011 7:09:22 PM   
John 3rd


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Just spent the last two hours getting a headache as I checked stuff off the Mod 'to do' list. This is what got done:

1. Created Escort Command and Fleet Sub Command HQ and placed them in Kobe as Terminus suggested.

2. 1st Mobile Army created and based at Shanghai (for the moment):
---Deleted all the 1st and 2nd TK Div units and deployed both TK Div in Shanghai at about 80% Strength
---Created the 1st and 2nd 'Mech' Inf Div from (all existing at start on the map) 2 Ind Mix Brigades, 4 TK Reg, and 2 Field Art Reg. Old units deleted off the map.
---Mobile Army HQ at Shanghai

3. Went through Manchuria, Korea, and China and worked on the expansion of HI, LI, Refineries, Oil Prod, Aircraft Factories, all forms of shipyards, and tweaked several base sizes. Can provide ALL this in detail if people want. These are the GRAND TOTALS of what I added (reflecting two additional years of investment by the IJA/IJN with no war in China): 80 Merchant Yard, 15 Repair Yard, 75 Naval Yard, 280 HI, 160 LI, 130 Refinery, 150 Oil, 70 Armament, 25 Vehicle, and 3 10 Plane Production lines. As said I have the specifics for each location if wanted.



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Post #: 497
RE: Changes Completed - 10/26/2011 6:18:06 PM   
JWE

 

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Erm ... Don't know if you are interested; the usual dollar short and day late kinda stuff. Have some interesting thoughts and corresponding OOBs for mid and late model IJA Amphib and Island-Type LCUs. Lot of concept stuff that comes with.

If you in da mood, gimme a shout.

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Post #: 498
RE: Changes Completed - 10/26/2011 6:44:49 PM   
John 3rd


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Darned right I am interested! Can you toss the info onto this Thread or do you need to send it via email? Would love to see it.


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Post #: 499
CV Names - 10/26/2011 6:48:02 PM   
John 3rd


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I have been going through the proposal work for the Fleet and am beginning to implement the changes detailed above that Stanislav hasn't gotten to yet. Need a pair of CV Names! Since Shoho and Zuiho are not built I could use a good pair of appropriate carrier names (preferably with translation). I plan to use a couple of the RA Sho-Kai names for the pair of Shokaku-Kai that get finished in 1943 (Renkaku and Taikaku). If you have any please toss them out!


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RE: CV Names - 10/26/2011 7:05:27 PM   
House Stark

 

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Speaking of carriers, what's the IJN carrier production schedule after 1942? I vaguely remember FatR mentioning Shokaku-kai rebuilds with two arriving each winter. Is this still the plan?

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Post #: 501
CV At Start and Construction - 10/26/2011 7:39:51 PM   
John 3rd


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Just spent time working on the beginning Japanese CVs and made sure to bring them into the vision of the Mod. Went through Names, Air Complement, Air Groups, and Starting Locations. Here is what I've got:

KB
CarDiv1--Akagi (81) and Atago (81)
CarDiv2--Soryu (63) and Hiryu (69)
CarDiv5--Shokaku (72) and Zuikaku (72)

KB has 438 Planes as opposed to IRL with 414

KB-2
CarDiv3--Ryujo (39)
CarDiv4--Zuiho (69) and Shoho (69)

KB-2 starts at Babeldoap with 177 Planes as opposed to 108 Planes (Ryujo, Zuiho, and the not complete Shoho)

I chose to reduce Ryujo's Air Group by 9 to reflect a more realistic appraisal of her hangar and made minor numbers changes to other CVs working on the 3 planes element of the Japanese (EX: Hiryu reduced from 71 to 69). Need names for Zuiho and Shoho.

CVEs
Hosho (18) and Taiyo (27) both start at Hiroshima with the BBs.

War Construction:
1. Normal CVE stuff
2. Junyo and Hiyo arrive at standard time in 1942 and come in with 57 planes instead of 53
3. A pair of Shokaku-Kai CVs in early-to-mid 1943 (81 planes like in RA)
4. Do we allow Taiho or a 3rd Shokoku Kai?
5. Normal late-war Japanese CVs

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Post #: 502
RE: Changes Completed - 10/27/2011 7:11:38 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Darned right I am interested! Can you toss the info onto this Thread or do you need to send it via email? Would love to see it.

Ok, it comes in parts. There a lot of confusion in the 'usual' sources. There's the internal and structural organization of 1st Amphib Brigade, which is greatly different, even to the platoon level, from the internal and structural organization of those few (14th, 29th, 34th??, and maybe one more) so-called Island Divisions.

1st Amphib Brig isn't really 'amphib'. The name, in Japanese, actually reads better as Sea Mobile, or Sea Transportable, but it was once translated as 'Amphibious', and since that's more sexy, everyone in the internet world calls it the 1st 'Amphibious' Brigade, and all the sources are now identical with one another. They weren't 'amphib' in the classical sense. Both the Amph Brig and the Island Divs substituted a Sea-Transport Unit (with 20 odd Daihatsus) for the standard Brig/Div echelon Transport Unit using horses/trucks/(conscripted labor with handcarts). That's lift for 1400 men, max, with no guns and no supply; doctrinally, this was a single battalion (with SupWeaps and Supply) transport element. The Sea-Transport Units are not included in the following, since they were, indeed, considered separately, and were very like a typical Shipping Eng Rgt with an additional 'Labor' component.

That, too, is the subject of much confusion in the 'usual' sources. The units are often translated as 'Pioneers' and are given some of the same cachet as USMC Pioneer Bns. But this is not quite correct. Their actual designation might perhaps better translated as 'labor' units, with all that the term implies. The 1st 'Amph', for example, was known to have formed its 'labor' units from drafts from the Inf platoons; gobs of soldiers with shovels, and 2-3 Eng officers overseeing the bunch. Hardly 'Pioneers' except in the philosophical sense.

So ... here's the basis of the Japanese Sea Mobile Brigade. The background how-to and underlying calculations are coming by pm. That is because I do not wish to expose any of this to the whackos. They are for you and FatR. Only thing you need to do is make a new IJA squad device, the SL Inf Sqd. Full instructions and rationale are in the pm. Think of this as a taste


[ed] And note how nicely we dialed everything so closely to actual TOEs (pats self on back furiously). This is so everything works into the island stack limits and still defines a real live, honest to gosh, head-to-head confrontation between an 'Amph' Brig and a Marine Rgt/MarDiv, as actually happened. God!! I love it when a plan comes together.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by JWE -- 10/27/2011 7:17:23 PM >


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RE: Changes Completed - 10/28/2011 7:06:36 AM   
John 3rd


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COOL! Will gladly look for the email in my box and then do some playing with it. Greatly appreciate it.

I worked on my 1st SNLF Brigade today for a potential RA Variant and will Post the stats for you to compare.



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Post #: 504
More Changes Completed - 10/28/2011 8:14:19 PM   
John 3rd


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Just got done with 3 hours of work within the Mod. Tasks completed:

1. Finished moving China units around: all aircraft (except at Canton) are moved into the area around Shanghai. Almost every plane in China is now attached to 7th Air Army. Built two new Sentai of Lily and Nate and added them to 7th Air Army. China air is now done.
2. Created the Sea Mobile Japanese 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Brigades. They get two more as reinforcement in early-to-mid-1942 and have an Army HQ they answer to. All three starting at Saipan with one set for Guam and 2 Prepping for Rabaul.
3. Moved out the 144th Reg (South Seas Force) because it is no longer needed and placed it at Battambang with its other unit pieces to help with Malaya.
4. Moved units to actually begin a defense of the Kuriles. Etorofu, Sima, and PJ each got a garrison unit, BF, and Con unit from Manchuria.
5. Created the 6 CLAA/Recon CL for the Kaigun. Based them off of Oyodo carrying 6 planes and 6x2 of the 120/45 DP Guns. Two come in 1942, 2 in 1943, and 2 in 1944.
6. As discussed made all the CS Chitose Class for uniformity: Chitose, Chiyoda, Mizuho, and Nisshin.
7. Moved nearly all the IJN LCU in China to Shanghai. The Japanese player can leave them in China or buy them out and send them elsewhere.
8. Attached all 4 BC to the KB and KB-2. Replace the 2 BC in Malaya with Nagato and Mutsu. I thought about the 4 non-modernized BBs but decided that might be risky.

kfsgo: China is now ready for you to go to work if interested. I can send the files when needed.

FatR: I couldn't find the design for the new CAs: Hiitaka, Iwaki, Hikaru, and Kurama. Did you get to that?

What do we do regarding Taiho? Build her or make her a Shokaku-Kai?



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RE: More Changes Completed - 10/28/2011 9:04:01 PM   
kfsgo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

kfsgo: China is now ready for you to go to work if interested. I can send the files when needed.



Ok, toss'em over. You have my e-mail - can't guarantee I can get things done immediately (I have a bunch of writing to do over the weekend and then a trip to Ireland next week) but will try to get a couple of outlines people can comment on before I jet off.

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RE: More Changes Completed - 10/28/2011 9:17:49 PM   
House Stark

 

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Instead of the Taiho, would it be possible to make 2 Unryus in its place? They might not take up that much more resources, and in terms of finding aircrews...well this is AE, there will be plenty of pilots and planes for them Surely the Japanese can find 50 more planes and crews in 1944. The only real factor would be shipyard space, but perhaps in starting the Unryus earlier the repeat builds would be even more efficient? The decision could also be justified by the fact that the Taiho, while an excellent and tough ship, is less useful when horribly outnumbered (If Japanese planners consider American industrial potential, they might realize that sooner or later their fleet will be outnumbered and even the Taiho might take critical hits and sink anyways).

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Post #: 507
RE: More Changes Completed - 10/28/2011 9:30:47 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kfsgo


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

kfsgo: China is now ready for you to go to work if interested. I can send the files when needed.



Ok, toss'em over. You have my e-mail - can't guarantee I can get things done immediately (I have a bunch of writing to do over the weekend and then a trip to Ireland next week) but will try to get a couple of outlines people can comment on before I jet off.


If you cannot get to them quickly how about I send the files so you can look and while you are getting that chance and working I can keep plowing through things? This way you can see the new units that have been created in China and begin thinking about some form or realistic storyline and layout. GREAT chance to do so creative fiction!

Think I might try to finish off getting the British--Aussie--Indian--Dutch side of this complete. YOU can be looking and I will get that stuff done and then send you the working files.

What do you think?


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(in reply to kfsgo)
Post #: 508
RE: More Changes Completed - 10/28/2011 9:33:08 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 11244
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: House Stark

Instead of the Taiho, would it be possible to make 2 Unryus in its place? They might not take up that much more resources, and in terms of finding aircrews...well this is AE, there will be plenty of pilots and planes for them Surely the Japanese can find 50 more planes and crews in 1944. The only real factor would be shipyard space, but perhaps in starting the Unryus earlier the repeat builds would be even more efficient? The decision could also be justified by the fact that the Taiho, while an excellent and tough ship, is less useful when horribly outnumbered (If Japanese planners consider American industrial potential, they might realize that sooner or later their fleet will be outnumbered and even the Taiho might take critical hits and sink anyways).


I would not have thought of that. A capital idea. I can just see it. The Japanese begin building their second pair of Sho's when the Two Ocean Navy Act is passed, they have a heart attack, throw out the Taiho design and chose to go with the simpler Hiryu. Makes sense to me!

We now need FOUR Japanese CV Names: two for the 2nd and 3rd Hiryu (replacing Zuiho/Taiho) and two more for the early Unryu's.


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(in reply to House Stark)
Post #: 509
RE: More Changes Completed - 10/28/2011 9:46:54 PM   
kfsgo

 

Posts: 445
Joined: 9/16/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


What do you think?



I thought that was the plan anyway. It'll take a while to get everyone's deployments down - I have a really weird (as in, it reads like the sort of propaganda sheet comedians make jokes about) Taiwanese book from...1972? on the S-J War, but in between spiels it also has actual OOB stuff for the Chinese in the 1937-1941 period. Also, I will probably have 2-3 versions of initial setups - so I will need to fiddle around with the scenario to present those appropriately. Since the Chinese are all in one block in the files it's trivial to import any changes to their setup with witpload.

(in reply to John 3rd)
Post #: 510
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