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WITE Editor Manual DRAFT - 7/30/2011 3:41:50 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 1140
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		To All,

I have been commissioned by Matrix Games and 2BY3 Games to write the War in the East Editor Manual. The attached is a work in progress--but close to the end in describing the editor-as-is. I am very interested in the community's inputs with regards to this document and have obtained permission from the powers-that-be to present it to you for comment. Items highlighted in yellow are topics that I have questions about or are items that I am still scribing. All comments/ questions/ suggestions on content, organization, grammar, and/or the facts as presented are most welcome. Please post here your recommended additions/changes/deletions for this document.

Thanks in advance for your input and special thanks to all those who have contributed to this effort thus far.

v/r

bcgames

WitE Editor Manual DRAFT v0.1

< Message edited by bcgames -- 12/25/2011 8:30:53 AM >

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RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 7/30/2011 3:16:11 PM   
cristianwj


Posts: 44
Joined: 7/14/2009
From: P.R. China
Status: offline 		well done!

(in reply to bcgames)
Post #: 2
RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 8/3/2011 10:49:16 AM   
Red Lancer


Posts: 373
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: online 		A huge step forward. I had a really quick scan through and a couple of areas sprung quickly to mind.

It might be worth explaining early on that editing takes place in two 'areas'. Firstly in the 'tabs' where you play directly with the data and secondly on the map where you can play with the counters and hexes (which also changes the data). It seems to me that like the game engine a short tutorial on building a really simple scenario with only a couple of units on each side may be helpful.

I couldn't see if you had mentioned it but when you are 'on map' editing (e.g. easy way of moving units) then you have to have the side you are working on in play and that you toggle between sides with hotkey-w.

Perhaps a section on graphics modding may be useful (a popular area) explaining which graphics formats are required and the sizes of pictures.

As you note the units.csv file is huge - perhaps mention that your spreadsheet program needs to be able to handle upto ? columns.

Hope this helps.

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JY

"Erst Wägen, Dann Wagen" [First Ponder, Then Dare] - Moltke the Elder

(in reply to cristianwj)
Post #: 3
RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 8/3/2011 1:50:43 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 11083
Joined: 8/27/2004
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quote:

As you note the units.csv file is huge - perhaps mention that your spreadsheet program needs to be able to handle upto ? columns


Amount of columns is changing. We adding new data fields. In anycase Excel 2003 with it's limit of 256 colums can't be used here.

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Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW Development

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Post #: 4
RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 8/4/2011 2:11:25 AM   
rosseau

 

Posts: 801
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		94 pages! Let give this man some credit here. Thank you, sir.



(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 5
RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 8/4/2011 3:02:50 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 1140
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Red Lancer,

Thanks for taking the time to review this document and providing your input on how to make it better. I will try my best to incorporate your suggestions. Keep them coming!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer
It might be worth explaining early on that editing takes place in two 'areas'. Firstly in the 'tabs' where you play directly with the data and secondly on the map where you can play with the counters and hexes (which also changes the data).

Good point. Let's see how I do with the next draft in answering this item.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer
It seems to me that like the game engine a short tutorial on building a really simple scenario with only a couple of units on each side may be helpful.

I agree in principle. I need to explore the practical application. More to follow...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer
I couldn't see if you had mentioned it but when you are 'on map' editing (e.g. easy way of moving units) then you have to have the side you are working on in play and that you toggle between sides with hotkey-w.

I'm sure I could be more explicit and clear in the text with regard to your point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer
Perhaps a section on graphics modding may be useful (a popular area) explaining which graphics formats are required and the sizes of pictures.

This would be an addition beyond the scope of explaining the editor. But maybe an appendix on this topic might answer the mail?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer
As you note the units.csv file is huge - perhaps mention that your spreadsheet program needs to be able to handle upto ? columns.

I will go with the flow on how the editor evolves at 2BY3.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

v/r

bcgames


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RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 8/9/2011 4:47:31 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 1140
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Any comments you can provide are most appreciated.

Thanks.

(in reply to bcgames)
Post #: 7
RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 8/9/2011 1:22:13 PM   
Commanderski

 

Posts: 284
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		I just read through it and it is fairly easy to understand, but will re-read through it again this weekend. As previously posted, if a tutorial can be made that would be extremely helpful.

In creating or adding new units, say the 12 SS Panzer Division in a December '44 scenario. Would you have to know how many men, tanks, artillery...etc. to put in? Or if you put in the 12 SS Panzer Division and added the appropriate attached reiments and batallions would the system automatically have it at the correct strength for that time period?

This is a great undertaking and will definitely add to the quality of the game. Thank you for efforts and hard work!

(in reply to bcgames)
Post #: 8
RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 8/10/2011 2:36:41 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 1140
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Commanderski,

Thanks for taking the time to read this rather lengthy document.

As to your question, I believe the answer is this. The 12th SS Panzer Division in December 1944 could be quickly replicated in the game by using the 1944 SS Panzer Division TOE(OB); this replicates a division with all of its subordinate units and equipment at 100% strength. Historical research and the editor would be required to adjust the 12th SS Panzer Division from its 100% TOE(OB) strength to the actual strength it enjoyed in December 1944.

If you read through the Editor Manual again, please record any questions that arise and share them with me. I will do my best to address them in the next version of the manual.

v/r

bcgames





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Post #: 9
RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 8/15/2011 1:48:20 AM   
Commanderski

 

Posts: 284
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Hi bcgames;
I went through the manual again and I know it's not yet finished but do have the following questions:

When backing up the DAT and scen folder files if you renamed them to DAtA and scenA, worked on your scenario for a while then wanted to go back to your game, would you have to rename them back? Do you have a recomendation as to how they should be saved when working on them?

In Section 4.2 you say it doesn't matter which scenario to load to start. Wouldn't it be better to pick a scenario size that is close to what you have in mind?

In the pilot qualty chart on page 21. Wouldn't the Soviet quality be higher in '45? They had more experienced pilots at that time and the Germans didn't have that many left.

When enering uints do you have to enter them for both sides or just the side you want to adjust or create?

I like the way you put in the cautions. That should help avoid making too many mistakes.

Thank again for your work on this.

Commanderski

(in reply to bcgames)
Post #: 10
RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 8/16/2011 3:39:44 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 1140
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Commanderski,

Thanks once again for your pointed comments. I need to take some little time to answer your questions faithfully. More to follow.

v/r

bcgames

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Post #: 11
RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 10/23/2011 6:42:44 AM   
bcgames


Posts: 1140
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames

To All,

I have been commissioned by Matrix Games and 2BY3 Games to write the War in the East Editor Manual. The attached is a work in progress--but close to the end in describing the editor-as-is. I am very interested in the community's inputs with regards to this document and have obtained permission from the powers-that-be to present it to you for comment. Items highlighted in yellow are topics that I have questions about or are items that I am still scribing. All comments/ questions/ suggestions on content, organization, grammar, and/or the facts as presented are most welcome. Please post here your recommended additions/changes/deletions for this document.

Thanks in advance for your input and special thanks to all those who have contributed to this effort thus far.

v/r

bcgames

WitE Editor Manual DRAFT v0.1

If you get the chance to review this document, I would like to know your thoughts/questions about the WITE editor. Thx.

v/r

bcgames


_____________________________


(in reply to bcgames)
Post #: 12
RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 10/23/2011 11:32:28 AM   
Bletchley_Geek


Posts: 2114
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames
If you get the chance to review this document, I would like to know your thoughts/questions about the WITE editor. Thx.


Hey bc,

yesterday I made intensive use of this document (you can tell) and have a few questions/suggestions.


  • It would be nice to comment something about importing and exporting CSVs with Excel or OpenOffice for adjusting unit attributes. One needs to be careful that, when importing the CSV table, the proper format options are selected (delimiters, text handling) etc. I can take some screenshots about how to get that right with OpenOffice.
  • One point which isn't very clear to me is that of Freezing at the start of an secnario. On the one hand, the editor doesn't show anywhere anything like a "frozen flag" so you can see quickly if a unit is frozen or not. I also found out that with setting the flag isn't enough. You need to reduce the "current" unit attribute to 0. Otherwise things get weird (showing movement paths for units that can't actually move, leaving a frozen unit with MP's in the same stack as a unfrozen unit precludes the unfrozen unit from attacking, etc.)
  • I see that you can set "Scenario" Victory Conditions for a Campaign scenario, but seems to not have any effect at all. In the manual there's a question about this same topic. Have you learnt anything new about that topic since July?
  • I find a bit surprising that VP's aren't an attribute of the Location entities, being that managed via the "Map" interface. Is there any way to get an export of current VP assignments? I would like to change the scoring scheme for the Campaign in a "indirect" way. That is, since you can't change the actual conditions, I wonder if by tweaking VP assignment alone Decisive and Major victory can be made more difficult for the Soviet side.


Thank you for all the work you've done with this. Since scenario creation seems to be not the most popular thing to do with WitE, which is logical since the game is complex and to get some insight one needs to play it for some time, it makes your contributions all that more valuable. So, again, THANK YOU!

< Message edited by Bletchley_Geek -- 10/23/2011 11:33:24 AM >

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Post #: 13
RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 10/23/2011 3:23:24 PM   
Richard III

 

Posts: 405
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks very much for this, hopefully it will encourage more mods/scenarios for this great game.
Rich
quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames


quote:

ORIGINAL: bcgames

To All,

I have been commissioned by Matrix Games and 2BY3 Games to write the War in the East Editor Manual. The attached is a work in progress--but close to the end in describing the editor-as-is. I am very interested in the community's inputs with regards to this document and have obtained permission from the powers-that-be to present it to you for comment. Items highlighted in yellow are topics that I have questions about or are items that I am still scribing. All comments/ questions/ suggestions on content, organization, grammar, and/or the facts as presented are most welcome. Please post here your recommended additions/changes/deletions for this document.

Thanks in advance for your input and special thanks to all those who have contributed to this effort thus far.

v/r

bcgames

WitE Editor Manual DRAFT v0.1

If you get the chance to review this document, I would like to know your thoughts/questions about the WITE editor. Thx.

v/r

bcgames



(in reply to bcgames)
Post #: 14
RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 10/23/2011 7:31:37 PM   
bcgames


Posts: 1140
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		Thanks for the input B_G.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
  • It would be nice to comment something about importing and exporting CSVs with Excel or OpenOffice for adjusting unit attributes. One needs to be careful that, when importing the CSV table, the proper format options are selected (delimiters, text handling) etc. I can take some screenshots about how to get that right with OpenOffice.

    • Yes, good point. I'll add that in.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
  • One point which isn't very clear to me is that of Freezing at the start of an scenario. On the one hand, the editor doesn't show anywhere anything like a "frozen flag" so you can see quickly if a unit is frozen or not. I also found out that with setting the flag isn't enough. You need to reduce the "current" unit attribute to 0. Otherwise things get weird (showing movement paths for units that can't actually move, leaving a frozen unit with MP's in the same stack as a unfrozen unit precludes the unfrozen unit from attacking, etc.).

    • Yes, you are correct. The frozen units for the first player in a scenario need to have their MP and SMP zeroed out--that's what actually "freezes" them. Frozen units for the second player will be frozen automatically by the computer during the logistics phase that precedes the second player's turn.

    The quickest way to zero out the MP/SMPs for frozen units for the first player is to go to the Commander's Report and select the Frozen filter. Then select Editor Functions and click on the Motorized: text. A pop-up window will appear. Enter 0, hit the enter key. The non-motorized pop-up will appear. Enter 0, press the enter key. Now click on the SET UNIT MP. After that, click on SET UNIT SMP. Enter 0 in the pop-up window and press the Enter key. All your first player units with a freeze flag should now be frozen.

    el hefe put in a request to make the editor do this automatically for the first player in the future.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
  • I see that you can set "Scenario" Victory Conditions for a Campaign scenario, but seems to not have any effect at all. In the manual there's a question about this same topic. Have you learnt anything new about that topic since July?

    • The only thing I have seen different between the two settings is the victory results screen. If you modify the Velikye Luki scenario so that it uses the Campaign victory conditions, and then run it computer vs computer you'll see the difference between the two screens.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
  • I find a bit surprising that VP's aren't an attribute of the Location entities, being that managed via the "Map" interface. Is there any way to get an export of current VP assignments? I would like to change the scoring scheme for the Campaign in a "indirect" way. That is, since you can't change the actual conditions, I wonder if by tweaking VP assignment alone Decisive and Major victory can be made more difficult for the Soviet side.

    • Sorry, I don't know any way to do this. I believe it is all hardcoded.

    As far as making victory conditions more difficult for the Soviet side you could reduce the Score Mods so that the Soviet gets fewer points for destroying German units. The typical score mods for the stock scenarios are 100/100. If you want to handicap the Soviet Player set the Axis score mod to something less than 100. That's the quickest way I know to "balance" the game.



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    RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 10/24/2011 10:44:17 AM   
    Bletchley_Geek


    Posts: 2114
    Joined: 11/26/2009
    From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: bcgames

    Thanks for the input B_G.



    You welcome. And thanks again for documenting the editor :)

    Re: Frozen Units. For some reason I didn't check what I could do with the CR's while in the editor "map mode". Thanks for the heads up.

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
  • I find a bit surprising that VP's aren't an attribute of the Location entities, being that managed via the "Map" interface. Is there any way to get an export of current VP assignments? I would like to change the scoring scheme for the Campaign in a "indirect" way. That is, since you can't change the actual conditions, I wonder if by tweaking VP assignment alone Decisive and Major victory can be made more difficult for the Soviet side.

    • Sorry, I don't know any way to do this. I believe it is all hardcoded.

    As far as making victory conditions more difficult for the Soviet side you could reduce the Score Mods so that the Soviet gets fewer points for destroying German units. The typical score mods for the stock scenarios are 100/100. If you want to handicap the Soviet Player set the Axis score mod to something less than 100. That's the quickest way I know to "balance" the game.


    The problem is that what I wanted to modify were the GC VP assignments, basically to give more value to cities deep within the Reich Frontiers. The main problem is to balance this out so Auto Victory doesn't become too easy, since I'm assuming victory level thresholds can't be changed.


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    Real men go to war on Real tanks

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    Post #: 16
    RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 10/24/2011 2:11:37 PM   
    bcgames


    Posts: 1140
    Joined: 6/2/2010
    From: Kansas
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

    The problem is that what I wanted to modify were the GC VP assignments, basically to give more value to cities deep within the Reich Frontiers. The main problem is to balance this out so Auto Victory doesn't become too easy, since I'm assuming victory level thresholds can't be changed.

    I don't know if it would work but you could try setting Victory Cities in addition to whatever is hardcoded. For example, in the 1941-45 Campaign scenario, if you bring up the SET VICTORY CITIES screen (shift-V), you will see that there are no cities assigned. Maybe if you assigned VP to Berlin for instance, this would add to whatever VP are hardcoded. I know of no reason you would not be awarded those VP at the end/during the game.

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    Post #: 17
    RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 10/24/2011 2:40:12 PM   
    Bletchley_Geek


    Posts: 2114
    Joined: 11/26/2009
    From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: bcgames
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

    The problem is that what I wanted to modify were the GC VP assignments, basically to give more value to cities deep within the Reich Frontiers. The main problem is to balance this out so Auto Victory doesn't become too easy, since I'm assuming victory level thresholds can't be changed.

    I don't know if it would work but you could try setting Victory Cities in addition to whatever is hardcoded. For example, in the 1941-45 Campaign scenario, if you bring up the SET VICTORY CITIES screen (shift-V), you will see that there are no cities assigned. Maybe if you assigned VP to Berlin for instance, this would add to whatever VP are hardcoded. I know of no reason you would not be awarded those VP at the end/during the game.


    Thank you. The problem is how to test this... Perhaps a simple way to test it would be to set the campaign scenario duration to be something like 1 turn. Have you ever tried that?

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    Post #: 18
    RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 10/24/2011 6:22:50 PM   
    bcgames


    Posts: 1140
    Joined: 6/2/2010
    From: Kansas
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek
    The problem is how to test this... Perhaps a simple way to test it would be to set the campaign scenario duration to be something like 1 turn. Have you ever tried that?

    Yes, you can run the game for one turn and it will calculate victory at the end. To get results quickly, set by sides to human player and then just end each sides turn.


    _____________________________


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    Post #: 19
    RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 10/26/2011 2:39:25 AM   
    bcgames


    Posts: 1140
    Joined: 6/2/2010
    From: Kansas
    Status: offline     		Questions? My goal is to have this document meet your needs--what are they? What do you want to know about that you haven't seen 'splained so far? The only dumb question is the one that isn't asked. What are your questions?

    v/r

    bcgames

    (in reply to bcgames)
    Post #: 20
    RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 10/29/2011 4:10:22 AM   
    bcgames


    Posts: 1140
    Joined: 6/2/2010
    From: Kansas
    Status: offline     		I am closed on this topic. Thanks to all for your contributions.

    v/r

    bcgames

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    (in reply to bcgames)
    Post #: 21
    RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 1/22/2012 2:56:42 AM   
    bcgames


    Posts: 1140
    Joined: 6/2/2010
    From: Kansas
    Status: offline     		I am still closed on this topic. Thanks again for all your contributions.

    _____________________________


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    Post #: 22
    RE: WitE Editor Manual DRAFT - 2/8/2012 5:08:09 AM   
    bcgames


    Posts: 1140
    Joined: 6/2/2010
    From: Kansas
    Status: offline     		This thread needs to drop below the line; it is no longer relevant or accurate.

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    Post #: 23
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