Is there a reason why this game cost so much? The graphics are terrible and the production value is a joke with static units that doesn't even have any animations what so ever! While I agree that gameplay is great, but this is game is a line by line remake of Panzer General. How hard can it be?
Come'on guys, $40 for this game is just greedy. If you're going to charge full price for a clone then at least bring the graphics up to date. That or release this game on Steam so Valve can put on sale for $10 or something.
Cost too much?
Moderator: MOD_PanzerCorps
RE: Cost too much?
Progam it yourself then. Companies are no social club like my home country, if you don't want this game for that price: don't buy it. Welcome to the wonderful world of capitalism [:'(]
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Lord Zimoa
- Posts: 829
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:06 pm
- Contact:
RE: Cost too much?
Hi,
I understand where this idea comes from that small Indie developers, for some obscure reason are supposed to deliver good games at rock bottom prices. Therefore let me just give you some insight in this world:
We worked on this game with a team of 10 people for almost two years, working with ease weeks of 100+ hours without pay nor without upfront royalty payments. Invested easily five digit zero number in expenses and costs. We have to fight AAA games and publishers with budgets easily 20 times that of ours, with big publishers behind them spending millions on PR and Marketing. On average we sell in thousands, not tens of thousands in this niche market.
So we focus on quality, listening to feedback from our players, improve, try and make our games stable, as bug free as possible, fun and we are open. Proof is the pudding just read the reviews and reactions on the Matrix and Slitherine forums, on our websites, Facebook , people just love the game, they predict 100 hours of fun, see almost no bugs, things even many AAA titles lack last years. We used 800+ Beta-testers, really tried with them to make this a top game and I believe we managed well, as we do this with passion and out of joy in the first place.
We asked them what do you think, pure looking at this game, would be a fare price. About 22 % voted for 30 USD, 45% for 40 USD and amazing 19% even 50 USD or even more as they just loved the game so much. A publisher takes 50% or more, than Steam cuts another 30% if you go there, go to retail cut all through another 50% with the distributors, than come taxes, than minus invest. I assure you if we were selling at 15-20 USD, we just are forced to stop, period.
Yeah, but games from like e.g. Paradox are on Steam now for 20 dollar, yes they are, they are a few months or even years older, already sold in prime at top rates. And e.g. again Paradox is with their whole catalogue on Steam, they have dozens of titles, can afford a prize drop on a few games to gain PR for new upcoming titles.
We, and I talk for many of my brothers and sisters in the Indie Industry, are killed by it. So to answer your Q: we are offering this game at 24,99 GBP, VAT excluded, and that is far less than new AAA titles that come out new and are sometimes much worse and buggy products, just covered up by shrewd marketing.
We offer a good, quality product at a fair price and even than we are not sure if we make a profit. It is the best we can offer...
About the prices of games, it is amazing that in 2011 you still are able to pay the exact same price for a game as that you did in the 90`s. Nothing got cheaper, software, hardware, licences, taxes. Name me one industry were you paid 40 USD for a product in 1994 and still pay 40 USD in 2011!
Don`t get me wrong, it is most likely eventually we also drop prices, like with actions around X-mas or sales weeks, on actions with magazines, those who are registered at Slitherine and allow to receive the newsletter get vouchers with -25% on the catalogue or specific games like Panzer Corps on a regular basis.
And eventually over time, the price of this game will drop and we may even put it on Steam for a budget price. This is the life-path of every game.
But upon a new release, with so much investment on the line, and you offer a good, fun, stable game we just cannot afford offering our games direct at rock bottom prices. If we would drop to let us say 20 USD, we would need at least a 66% increase in sales to break even, that is a gamble we cannot take as a smaller Indie with no reserves. We need at least a minimum of prime sales first. On top we know that 70% of our potential revenue is also lost because of piracy and we can do nothing against it.
But ok, let us agree to disagree on this matter, I just wanted to give you some insight.
Cheers,
Tim
I understand where this idea comes from that small Indie developers, for some obscure reason are supposed to deliver good games at rock bottom prices. Therefore let me just give you some insight in this world:
We worked on this game with a team of 10 people for almost two years, working with ease weeks of 100+ hours without pay nor without upfront royalty payments. Invested easily five digit zero number in expenses and costs. We have to fight AAA games and publishers with budgets easily 20 times that of ours, with big publishers behind them spending millions on PR and Marketing. On average we sell in thousands, not tens of thousands in this niche market.
So we focus on quality, listening to feedback from our players, improve, try and make our games stable, as bug free as possible, fun and we are open. Proof is the pudding just read the reviews and reactions on the Matrix and Slitherine forums, on our websites, Facebook , people just love the game, they predict 100 hours of fun, see almost no bugs, things even many AAA titles lack last years. We used 800+ Beta-testers, really tried with them to make this a top game and I believe we managed well, as we do this with passion and out of joy in the first place.
We asked them what do you think, pure looking at this game, would be a fare price. About 22 % voted for 30 USD, 45% for 40 USD and amazing 19% even 50 USD or even more as they just loved the game so much. A publisher takes 50% or more, than Steam cuts another 30% if you go there, go to retail cut all through another 50% with the distributors, than come taxes, than minus invest. I assure you if we were selling at 15-20 USD, we just are forced to stop, period.
Yeah, but games from like e.g. Paradox are on Steam now for 20 dollar, yes they are, they are a few months or even years older, already sold in prime at top rates. And e.g. again Paradox is with their whole catalogue on Steam, they have dozens of titles, can afford a prize drop on a few games to gain PR for new upcoming titles.
We, and I talk for many of my brothers and sisters in the Indie Industry, are killed by it. So to answer your Q: we are offering this game at 24,99 GBP, VAT excluded, and that is far less than new AAA titles that come out new and are sometimes much worse and buggy products, just covered up by shrewd marketing.
We offer a good, quality product at a fair price and even than we are not sure if we make a profit. It is the best we can offer...
About the prices of games, it is amazing that in 2011 you still are able to pay the exact same price for a game as that you did in the 90`s. Nothing got cheaper, software, hardware, licences, taxes. Name me one industry were you paid 40 USD for a product in 1994 and still pay 40 USD in 2011!
Don`t get me wrong, it is most likely eventually we also drop prices, like with actions around X-mas or sales weeks, on actions with magazines, those who are registered at Slitherine and allow to receive the newsletter get vouchers with -25% on the catalogue or specific games like Panzer Corps on a regular basis.
And eventually over time, the price of this game will drop and we may even put it on Steam for a budget price. This is the life-path of every game.
But upon a new release, with so much investment on the line, and you offer a good, fun, stable game we just cannot afford offering our games direct at rock bottom prices. If we would drop to let us say 20 USD, we would need at least a 66% increase in sales to break even, that is a gamble we cannot take as a smaller Indie with no reserves. We need at least a minimum of prime sales first. On top we know that 70% of our potential revenue is also lost because of piracy and we can do nothing against it.
But ok, let us agree to disagree on this matter, I just wanted to give you some insight.
Cheers,
Tim
RE: Cost too much?
Excellent forthright reply. I hope the original poster understands. This market is a niche unfortunately compared to twitch games.
RE: Cost too much?
People in the millions pay $60 for 4-5 hour games like Call of Duty garbage and other ridiculous titles that are bug ridden with cheaters and $40 for a polished games like PC is to much? Sorry I thought my $40 was very well spent and the expense the little guy has to pay for making a game has already been explained above. Hell I would have paid $40 for the editor portion of the game. It keeps me up at night making custom maps [:D]
RE: Cost too much?
Price is too much only if lowering it brings more money to Matrix Games.
I guess that their expectations of sales based on the current price maximize their earnings.
It's an economic law based on supply and demand rule.
I guess that their expectations of sales based on the current price maximize their earnings.
It's an economic law based on supply and demand rule.
RE: Cost too much?
Compared to the cost of some of Matrix's other games, I didn't feel that Panzer Corps is overpriced. More importantly I wanted a retail boxed game similar to Panzer General that would run on my Windows 7 PC and that didn't require a third party program to be installed to play.
This war is not about slavery. --Robert E. Lee
RE: Cost too much?
Plus the game runs smooth as silk. Not one glitch, no patches, needed. Not many games can match that.
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Horseman78
- Posts: 22
- Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:35 am
RE: Cost too much?
Well worth the money IMO
RE: Cost too much?
ORIGINAL: Visery
Is there a reason why this game cost so much? The graphics are terrible and the production value is a joke with static units that doesn't even have any animations what so ever! While I agree that gameplay is great, but this is game is a line by line remake of Panzer General. How hard can it be?
Come'on guys, $40 for this game is just greedy. If you're going to charge full price for a clone then at least bring the graphics up to date. That or release this game on Steam so Valve can put on sale for $10 or something.
Looks like you need to go back to Steam.
RE: Cost too much?
ORIGINAL: Visery
Is there a reason why this game cost so much? The graphics are terrible and the production value is a joke with static units that doesn't even have any animations what so ever! While I agree that gameplay is great, but this is game is a line by line remake of Panzer General. How hard can it be?
Come'on guys, $40 for this game is just greedy. If you're going to charge full price for a clone then at least bring the graphics up to date. That or release this game on Steam so Valve can put on sale for $10 or something.
Sounds like you need to plunk down your $60 for another Call of Duty or Halo console game.... Enjoy... Matrix games are one of the last places to get a real "thinking man's" game. Those "graphics" and "production values" you like have virtually ruined the mainstream strategy game industry.
RE: Cost too much?
[:D]ORIGINAL: LarryP
Looks like you need to go back to Steam.
So true.[:(]ORIGINAL: Jestre
Sounds like you need to plunk down your $60 for another Call of Duty or Halo console game.... Enjoy... Matrix games are one of the last places to get a real "thinking man's" game. Those "graphics" and "production values" you like have virtually ruined the mainstream strategy game industry.
RE: Cost too much?
^ Ha ha..
RE: Cost too much?
In my opinion, this game has the most polish in a wargame to date.
RE: Cost too much?
I have noticed after that great explanation of making a pc game, the original poster hasn't returned. I think he more than likely was "Suppressed" by a 'Strategic Bombardment'.
Like was said above...don't like the price, don't buy the game. Seems simple to me.
: < )
Like was said above...don't like the price, don't buy the game. Seems simple to me.
: < )
RE: Cost too much?
ORIGINAL: Visery
Is there a reason why this game cost so much? The graphics are terrible and the production value is a joke with static units that doesn't even have any animations what so ever! While I agree that gameplay is great, but this is game is a line by line remake of Panzer General. How hard can it be?
Come'on guys, $40 for this game is just greedy. If you're going to charge full price for a clone then at least bring the graphics up to date. That or release this game on Steam so Valve can put on sale for $10 or something.
While beta testing I suggested the game should be priced at $99.00. GREED? A privately owned company has the right to make a profit. If you do not want to contribute to the brilliant capitalist system, the who cares.
Ahh, to heck with you.
"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."- W.T. Sherman
RE: Cost too much?
This game has one of the best graphics in this genre! Name me 3 WWII turn based hex games that look better. [8|]ORIGINAL: Visery
The graphics are terrible and the production value is a joke with static units that doesn't even have any animations what so ever!
The production value is a joke? Shame on you! [:-] For a game developed by such a small team with such a small budget, it's extremely polished!
Let me sum it up for you:
- one of the best graphics in this genre, period!
- rock solid stable and we have all the players to back this up!
- installation is flawless!
- very well thought out interface and I say this as a someone who has been a programmer for many years
- excellent help in the game, helpful tutorial, plus extensive tutorials in the game
- a multi-player that simply works!
- a very well designed AI
- hundreds of units
- wonderful library
- extensive beta testing has resulted in very few bugs! (I don't think players even found a bug yet).
- very userfriendly for people new to this genre (like me!)
- excellent editor and also one that isn’t buggy!
- easy to mod
- lots of replay value
Production value is a whole lot more than just pretty animations and graphics.
As for animations; this is basically a board game, like chess is. Certain games should be kept simple, it gives a game class. I refuse for example to play chess with anything but Staunton and the original wooden board and when I play on the computer, I don't want play with a silly animated chess program like Battlechess, I want to play with Fritz or Deep Shredder.
The lack of animations in this game is not unique, it’s very common in the WWII hex turn based genre, for the same reason that 99% of the chess games don’t look like Battlechess. Unlike most other genres out there, this genre is focused on a deep strategy and you also seem to forget that this is not the extremely popular FPS genre, but a hex turn based genre that is quite a niche.
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IainMcNeil
- Posts: 2784
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:01 am
- Location: London
- Contact:
RE: Cost too much?
The sad reality is that people are used to paying low prices for games so the wider market just don't expect to pay $40 for something that they think looks like a web game. I can understand it to some extent because they don't know the difference. I don;t know what the solution is. Maybe we could cut the game in half and sell the first half of the campaign for $19.99 and then get them to pay $19.99 for the other half. They are far more likely to buy things in small chunks but many of them.
Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games
Director
Matrix Games
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JP Falcon the 2nd
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:30 am
RE: Cost too much?
ORIGINAL: jomni
In my opinion, this game has the most polish in a wargame to date.
I don't know about that...I think there were more Poles in PG2.....
A Rebirth Due to lost Password and deleted email addy!
RE: Cost too much?
I find the price right and just. As a strategy game graphics are more a tool than say for a FPS were it's justificatory. Most important is game mechanics and overall game design. Strategy games specially round based one are today seen by many as hardcore games which appeals to a smaller audience, but then again the strategy developers have the luck of an older audience. I assume the average gamer age is around 28-36, which in most cases mean already settled in life with a job, regular and rather high income compared to teenagers and young adults. In that light 40$ isn't that much, less than 2 hours of work.