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Gary's Workshop - 7/16/2011 10:22:11 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		I've been messing around with Google maps and the scenario editor and so far it's very easy to create somewhat historic maps and do it fairly quickly. My hat is off to the developers for the whole "Pad image" idea. I've never seen an editor use this technique before so it is either very innovative or I've just been living in a cave. Anyway, here is a map of Lodz in the far left corner to Warsaw in the top right for starters. I plan on using it in a linked campaign with a large number of scenarios. Each scenario will cover a fairly small piece of geography. Each map will be more like the size of Luxembourg.

EDIT: The road placement is based upon a contemporary image but I imagine the road system would have been similar in earlier days. I basically just chose to use the main connections between cities and not other roads which were probably more like small country roads in those days.




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< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 7/16/2011 10:36:02 PM >
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RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/16/2011 11:15:03 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		Added a marsh north of Lodz and the Bzura river running along the top left section of the map. Looked a little closer at the West Point Atlas. Almost done with this map. I've also added tags (strings) to the rivers and cities on the map so that you can see the names in game.

Edit: I notice there are special hexes for "secondary objectives". Are secondary objectives worth more prestiege than ordinary flag hexes?




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< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 7/16/2011 11:16:49 PM >

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RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/16/2011 11:49:39 PM   
Razz


Posts: 2499
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		Don't forget to play test and add choke points.

Use Mountain swamp or thick forest.

Game play needs to be strategic and fun. For example 6 hexes outside Lodits you should change the countryside to a bocage creating a small choke point and then again two hexes outside the city on bottom right. Change that to bocage or swamp probably both need to be re-done. That creates a nice choke point where in make a player use the road or pay in time to cross those hexes to attack the city from the South. Outside Warsaw change the hills to a mountain hex, then use map strings and create the name Warsaw hills or Warsaw Ridge. Also add a thick forest hex next to it on the Southeast. That makes a good chole point where the player has to use the roads.

Looks like a good map.

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Post #: 3
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/17/2011 12:52:36 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		The forests and swamps are laid down to correspond somewhat with the Google map I used. As far as I can tell there are no mountainous regions near Warsaw, looking at a map. I would like the scenario map to be as realistic as possible. Here's the map after a few more adjustments. The major range of hills to the east and south of Lodz shows on the West Point Atlas so it should be reasonably accurate. I added a few choke points with heavy forrest. Also I added a secondary objective directly north of Lodz. It's not required to win the scenario but if you take it you get an instant reward of 500 prestiege. Basically if you want to take it you will need to divert some of your precious few units to the north out of the way do it.

Also fleshed out Lodz and Warsaw a bit to reflect that they are cities and the other "cities" are more like large towns.

Edit: Right now I have it set for a 14 turn (1 day per turn) scenario, however, I will do some play testing to determine the final turn length. I suppose I would want to have a decisive victory if the German player gets to Warsaw without almost any trouble.







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< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 7/17/2011 12:57:09 AM >

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RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/17/2011 1:06:43 AM   
Razz


Posts: 2499
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		I know about realism but I think the movement through hills and forest is too easy so I add a mountain some times to block movement and rename it on the map.

This map is slightly larger than Bocage Hell And it started as 12 turns. Had to make it 15 turns.

Depending upon units... I think you may have to move your map to 16 turns if it is to be used as a MP map in addition to single player.

If you really want to make it Hell, remove the road through the swamp and run it East 4 hexes then cross the river that way the Germans have to march one turn at a time through the swamp.

< Message edited by Razz -- 7/17/2011 1:07:48 AM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/17/2011 1:23:21 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		I definitely hear what you are saying. However, I rather stick a little more strictly with accuracy in the map as much as possible at the expense of playability. The challenge will be created by limiting the number of turns and number of units available accordingly and beefing up the AI's forces. This will more or less be a starter map anyway. It will only be the second map into my campaign.

I'd like to retain the secondary objective as nothing more than a prestiege boost at the moment, at least for the campaign version of my map. Maybe I will make some changes to the scenario version or post a blank map for others to play around with to their liking.

(in reply to Razz)
Post #: 6
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/17/2011 2:46:00 AM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		Actually I don't need mountains because it appears that thick woods are impassable. So really all I need is to create some choke points with thick woods. As you can tell from the preview below, it won't be easy to attack the secondary objective up north and really the best way to advance is through the hills to the south. The middle road/railroad is blocked by a bunker and only one unit will be able to attack it at a time.

The white X's show impassable terrain which the Germans will need to somehow get around.






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RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/17/2011 4:11:48 AM   
Razz


Posts: 2499
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		There you go.

Great maps have choke points and are play tested.

Don't forget swamps and bocage are choke points too! You can move through them but have to start next to the hex first.

So units move up to that point. Then have to stop.

Roads and RR's negate the terrain and units can pass through.

Thick rivers can not be crossed.

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Post #: 8
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/17/2011 3:14:23 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		I am posting my first two maps for other modders to play around with. THESE MAPS ARE NOT COMPLETE SCENARIOS. They are just maps without any units added. Also you will need to go into the "Scenario Params" screen to tweak the maps to how you want them. Basically I am working on a campaign and will not be converting the maps into scenarios. Because of that I will give others the opportunity to make them into scenarios to fit your tastes.

I also am giving anyone free license to alter or play around with the maps. You have my permission to use any part or whole of a map for your own purposes. Please just make mention somewhere that they are my maps which you are altering or using.

The maps are based upon Google Map images and may not be entirely historically accurate for 1939. However, I am figuring that what are cities today were probably towns in 1939 and only major roads are represented. So hopefully the maps are reasonably true to history. I've also used the West Point Atlas of WWII to tweak things a bit.

Below is a preview. In the post following I will post a zip file with the maps.

Thanks.




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< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 7/17/2011 3:16:53 PM >

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RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/17/2011 3:15:23 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		Here are the maps.

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RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/18/2011 12:03:31 AM   
Dumnorix


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Gary,
Take a look at my big maps mod for Panzer corps:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25290

First take look at my Mlawa map (PG2 Chiechanow) !

I work with the new scale 1 km = 1 Hexfield - and 1 unit = 1 Batallion !

Greetings and nice to see a old CIVIII member here at PC.
BTW - why do you not use your very good historical polish maps here ?
http://igrek.amzp.pl/mapindex.php?cat=KWR100

H.Balck



< Message edited by Dumnorix -- 7/18/2011 12:17:44 AM >

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RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/20/2011 12:34:17 AM   
Dumnorix


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		Here is my Mlawa scenario working phase:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26308

H.Balck

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Post #: 12
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/20/2011 2:19:26 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dumnorix

Here is my Mlawa scenario working phase:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26308

H.Balck


Very nice! I haven't tried yet, but do the large maps slow down the game any?

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Post #: 13
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/20/2011 6:52:12 PM   
Dumnorix


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Very nice! I haven't tried yet, but do the large maps slow down the game any?


Thank you - I think no - big Multiplayer maps are much more fun ! I played JTCS meets PG2 many years with PBEMs - and its great. Now with the ne PC engine we can improve the WW2 game playing to a new stage.

Let me know , I am searching for a new big map modding team.

Interesting are also the completly poland scenario with all troops.

Gary you are the CIV III Gary ???
Best wishes
H.Balck

(in reply to Gary Childress)
Post #: 14
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/20/2011 7:32:04 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		Yes I am the same Gary Childress who does the Poser units for Civ III.

Do you plan on making any campaigns out of your big maps? That might make for some interesting game play. Thank you for the offer but I'm a little too erratic in my production to be part of a map team. I tend to be fickle with games. although PC may occupy my time for a while now. My main concern right now is that I want to create my own super long campaign for PC.

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Post #: 15
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/21/2011 7:33:52 PM   
Dumnorix


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Gary
Nice units for CIV III ! I hope we can set some new units in improved versions - here are my first ones:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26272

I plan my old Division Campaigns (german 18th and 1st tank division) to modified for Panzer Corps:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1824811
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1824312

Also possible a Guderian or a DAK Campaign.

But first I will finished Mlawa, than Normandy for nice PBEMs.
All other big map scenarios later - I am searching a way together with Iain and Tim to transfer my old map code in PC.


Greetings
H.Balck





< Message edited by Dumnorix -- 7/21/2011 7:37:56 PM >

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Post #: 16
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/21/2011 7:34:49 PM   
Dumnorix


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		Operation Marked Garden troop tree:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26279

Operation Barbarossa troop tree and first maps:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26376

< Message edited by Dumnorix -- 7/22/2011 3:02:49 AM >

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Post #: 17
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/30/2011 9:59:21 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		Looking for opinions. I know what Dumnorix thinks. What about others? Are these infantry units too big? I like them bigger because you can make out the details better on them. Let me know...

EDIT: And yes, I know they don't have shadows. I'm still in the initial development stages.




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< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 7/30/2011 10:00:21 PM >

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Post #: 18
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/30/2011 9:59:59 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		Here they are in game:






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RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/30/2011 10:11:59 PM   
Dumnorix


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		Nice Gary - 39 German Infantry right ? - a little bit to brightly, but if you put out all your units in the same style its OK for me - BTW more details. I hope you can modified the attack animations for this great unit size !!!

Looking forward for your shadows and some other previews.

Thank you !

BTW - my WW2 forum name is H.Balck - 15 years back I used this name.

< Message edited by Dumnorix -- 7/30/2011 10:15:06 PM >

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RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/30/2011 10:34:19 PM   
Razz


Posts: 2499
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		Too large by 30%

(in reply to Dumnorix)
Post #: 21
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/31/2011 6:25:53 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		OK, here they are reduced by about 20%. If I reduce them by 30% it would be a waste of time making them because they would be smaller than the stock units.




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RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/31/2011 7:31:28 PM   
Razz


Posts: 2499
Joined: 10/21/2007
From: CaLiForNia
Status: offline 		Looks good, but how do they compared against other soldiers that are standing up?

The HW Infantry is kneeling and that icon appears to be smaller by 5 % ?

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Post #: 23
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/31/2011 9:03:40 PM   
Dumnorix


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/15/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Gary
Looks better, but to brightly - Can you reduce the light with you poser renderings or make the textures a little bit darker.

H.Balck

(in reply to Razz)
Post #: 24
RE: Gary's Workshop - 7/31/2011 9:55:30 PM   
Gary Childress


Posts: 4813
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Razz

Looks good, but how do they compared against other soldiers that are standing up?

The HW Infantry is kneeling and that icon appears to be smaller by 5 % ?


Here's a comparison pic. They aren't intended to blend in with existing infantry units. I intend upon replacing the existing infantry.




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