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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part)

 
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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/26/2012 8:14:06 PM   
Theages

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Michaelm

Has the TF Auto refuel system been changed in anyway recently? I'm continually getting TF arriving in port and not refueliing ,even though set to full refuel, where originally they did.


The behaviour seems to have changed (sometimes?). 2 saves are attached. Japanese side. The task force has arrived at Hong Kong at the first turn. It did not dock and not auto refuel. On the next turn (no order given to the TF) it has docked and is already partially unloaded. It still has not refuelled. Shouldn't it have already refuelled? Wasn't the refuel previously done at arrival?

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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/26/2012 8:19:53 PM   
BigDuke66


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Michael I think there could be something wrong with the TF window.
Look at TF 57 in the TF list it's listed as CS and tooltip also shows CS but looking at the TF itself it shows Human Control, now what really is weird is that clicking on return to Abadan the settings jumps to CS:Bombay.


@hades1001
As this topic came from this thread:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2989021
we should continue discussion there.

Michael is reading & answering there two.




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Post #: 1562
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/26/2012 8:21:25 PM   
BigDuke66


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Here a screenshot of the TF list.




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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/26/2012 8:26:12 PM   
BigDuke66


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And here a screenshot of the TF window.




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Post #: 1564
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/26/2012 11:46:10 PM   
michaelm


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<deleted>

< Message edited by michaelm -- 1/26/2012 11:51:23 PM >


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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/26/2012 11:50:40 PM   
michaelm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Michael I think there could be something wrong with the TF window.
Look at TF 57 in the TF list it's listed as CS and tooltip also shows CS but looking at the TF itself it shows Human Control, now what really is weird is that clicking on return to Abadan the settings jumps to CS:Bombay.



I had noticed that behavior if you changed the CS to Human control. The CS flag wasn't being cleared.
It should be right in beta R9 though.

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Post #: 1566
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/27/2012 1:01:10 AM   
michaelm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Theages


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Michaelm

Has the TF Auto refuel system been changed in anyway recently? I'm continually getting TF arriving in port and not refueliing ,even though set to full refuel, where originally they did.


The behaviour seems to have changed (sometimes?). 2 saves are attached. Japanese side. The task force has arrived at Hong Kong at the first turn. It did not dock and not auto refuel. On the next turn (no order given to the TF) it has docked and is already partially unloaded. It still has not refuelled. Shouldn't it have already refuelled? Wasn't the refuel previously done at arrival?

The placement of the 'refuel at port' function hasn't been changed. But just arriving at a base does not immediately cause a refuel. There are some other things that can happen before it does.
In this case, the auto refuel is happening after the TF unloads. In a way this would make sense. If the base had no fuel, and the TF was carrying the port's additional fuel, it wouldn't want to refuel as soon as it hit the base hex as there would have been no fuel there. Whereas waiting till the TF unloaded, the TF could get its fuel.
Refueling will almost always be done before a TF leaves on its mission.

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Post #: 1567
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/27/2012 2:24:41 PM   
BigDuke66


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
I had noticed that behavior if you changed the CS to Human control. The CS flag wasn't being cleared.
It should be right in beta R9 though.


Sorry I should have mentioned it, I already use r9.

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Post #: 1568
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/27/2012 3:05:09 PM   
michaelm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
I had noticed that behavior if you changed the CS to Human control. The CS flag wasn't being cleared.
It should be right in beta R9 though.


Sorry I should have mentioned it, I already use r9.

Then post a save where it is happening, thanks.

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Post #: 1569
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/27/2012 3:14:46 PM   
BigDuke66


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Check post 1562, there is an attached save.

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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/27/2012 3:20:03 PM   
michaelm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Check post 1562, there is an attached save.

Thanks, didn't see if for the other posts.

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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/27/2012 3:30:34 PM   
michaelm


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It is the problem of the CS flag not being cleared. Just change the control from Human to Comp back to Human.

The TF was most likely taken out of CS in an earlier version so the flag was still set. R9 will only stop the problem going forward if the TF is removed from CS.


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Post #: 1572
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/27/2012 8:17:52 PM   
BigDuke66


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Ah OK, thanks.

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Post #: 1573
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/28/2012 8:00:18 AM   
FatR

 

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Since upgrading to r9 I'm experiencing terrible replay slowdown whenever ground bombing happens, making the game practically unplayable. An example of an affected replay is attached. What can be the cause of this.

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Post #: 1574
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/28/2012 8:35:26 AM   
michaelm


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This seems to be a save from 1106i not r9.Save is dated July 2011


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Post #: 1575
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/28/2012 9:15:24 AM   
FatR

 

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Sorry, picked up wrong replay slot. Here's the one from today.

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Post #: 1576
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/28/2012 9:47:24 AM   
michaelm


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It ran okay to completion.
Message delay was 1 second.
I could hit escape to speed it up animations or space bar to speed up the delay.


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Post #: 1577
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/28/2012 10:24:25 AM   
FatR

 

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Reinstalling fixed the problem, sorry for bothering you...

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Post #: 1578
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/28/2012 11:19:27 AM   
Chris H

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Not that I am aware of.


I think there is. For instance TF 487 at Manus should have refueled on arrival at the port but it didn't. I left it for a turn but it still didn't. Port size 7 with plenty of fuel and naval support at 138. There are no large TF docked but two undocked cargo TF unloading.

Save attached


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Post #: 1579
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/28/2012 12:14:24 PM   
michaelm


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TF487 arrived at LA and refueled okay.

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Post #: 1580
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/29/2012 12:51:32 AM   
michaelm


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I looked at Manus and there was a support TF 497 which didn't refuel when I told it to leave port.

[edit]
So there may be something to the randomness that refuel isn't always working.

The general rule from what I can see is that TFs are checked for refuel before they leave the base.
There are other conditions that also govern refuel, but I would have expected the general rule to be the backstop.

There was a bug that was fixed in the early beta that could have some bearing on this.
quote:

From 1107 list:
Viewing TF list automatically tries to refuel ships; don't do this as it affects ship ops and port refueling without player's knowledge [MEM]

Whenever the TF screen was opened, the code would go thru the list before displaying and attempt to refuel any possible TFs from port or RepTfs. IIRC, it didn't even necessarily allocate Ops to the ships.
This was fixed and the extra button added 'Refuel all on list' so that the player had some control over which TFs could be refueled.

It could be that this bug was hiding that not all TFs were being auto-refueled correctly.

[edit]
Non-transport type TFs with cargo space used (as in Support ships with supplies) are not being refueled. I think this may have always been the case but was obscured by the above bug. The check was to stop Transport TFs from refueling while loading and using up Ops points.


< Message edited by michaelm -- 1/29/2012 5:38:05 AM >


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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/29/2012 5:18:28 AM   
BigDuke66


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A request regarding the TF list, could TFs that are idle(docked but neither loading nor unloading) be somehow highlighted?
Maybe similar to the red that is used for returning subs a color could be used to make such TFs easy to find.


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Post #: 1582
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/29/2012 7:59:14 AM   
Chris H

 

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Would help if I had given you the correct information. It was 497.


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Refueling will almost always be done before a TF leaves on its mission.


Makes sense but in this instance the TF is set to 'do not unload'. I have had other instances were an empty TF has arrived in port and not refuelled, this is not much of a problem under manual control but under CS it is.


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I looked at Manus and there was a support TF 497 which didn't refuel when I told it to leave port.

[edit]
So there may be something to the randomness that refuel isn't always working.

The general rule from what I can see is that TFs are checked for refuel before they leave the base.
There are other conditions that also govern refuel, but I would have expected the general rule to be the backstop.

There was a bug that was fixed in the early beta that could have some bearing on this.
quote:

From 1107 list:
Viewing TF list automatically tries to refuel ships; don't do this as it affects ship ops and port refueling without player's knowledge [MEM]

Whenever the TF screen was opened, the code would go thru the list before displaying and attempt to refuel any possible TFs from port or RepTfs. IIRC, it didn't even necessarily allocate Ops to the ships.
This was fixed and the extra button added 'Refuel all on list' so that the player had some control over which TFs could be refueled.

It could be that this bug was hiding that not all TFs were being auto-refueled correctly.

[edit]
Non-transport type TFs with cargo space used (as in Support ships with supplies) are not being refueled. I think this may have always been the case but was obscured by the above bug. The check was to stop Transport TFs from refueling while loading and using up Ops points.



Checking for refuelling when you list TF is weird

< Message edited by Chris H -- 1/29/2012 8:08:13 AM >

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Post #: 1583
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/29/2012 11:15:38 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Non-transport type TFs with cargo space used (as in Support ships with supplies) are not being refueled. I think this may have always been the case but was obscured by the above bug. The check was to stop Transport TFs from refueling while loading and using up Ops points.


Wow. Thanks for digging into this Michael, and again for all the great support!




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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 1/29/2012 12:20:35 PM   
michaelm


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quote:


Makes sense but in this instance the TF is set to 'do not unload'. I have had other instances were an empty TF has arrived in port and not refueled, this is not much of a problem under manual control but under CS it is.

CS have their own conditions for refueling separate from normal TFs.

quote:


Checking for refueling when you list TF is weird

Not sure why this was done but .
If I recall, I was investigating why fuel was disappearing from one on my front-line bases which had several TFs at it, but they weren't configured to refuel.

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Post #: 1585
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 2/3/2012 6:28:53 AM   
BigDuke66


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I guess it isn't a normal behavior when the Auto Convoy system forms TFs and simply adds escorts(KV, DD) to it even when they are NOT in the Auto Convoy pool?

Pre-Turn save attached, best example is looking at the 3 DD is Colombo and looking at them in the after turn save, you find 2 of them now in Auto Convoy TFs.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 2/3/2012 6:35:27 AM >


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Post #: 1586
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 2/3/2012 6:30:12 AM   
BigDuke66


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After Turn save.


Any chance we could get an option like:"Send Convoy only with X escort", where X is the number of escorts fpr the AC system?
I really hate it when he thinks 1 PC is not enough for 2 AKLs but then sends a TK without any escort.

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< Message edited by BigDuke66 -- 2/3/2012 6:36:14 AM >


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RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 2/3/2012 8:04:42 AM   
Commander Cody


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This is something I've noticed for a while over numerous betas: I'm playing auto-sub mode and subs seem to gather in port but won't go out and play again on their own. As I recall, they used to form their own SS TFs and go out on patrol.

Is this a bug or a feature? Thanks in advance for your response, michaelm.

Cheers,
CC


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Post #: 1588
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 2/3/2012 9:29:39 AM   
Banzan

 

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Did you use auto-sub from start or did you activate it later? I noticed once, that if its not active from start it will not work till they "arrive" at a harbour.

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Post #: 1589
RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 Ja... - 2/3/2012 11:59:38 AM   
DD696

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

This is something I've noticed for a while over numerous betas: I'm playing auto-sub mode and subs seem to gather in port but won't go out and play again on their own. As I recall, they used to form their own SS TFs and go out on patrol.

Is this a bug or a feature? Thanks in advance for your response, michaelm.

Cheers,
CC



This has been happening in my game vs the Jap AI also. A few would be sent out, but the vast majority were lounging away the war in port. I would have to form a sub TF at the base and then set it to computer control. I use the betas, but have no saves as I have now restarted and am back doing the first turn. The Jap AI was doing the same thing and I was encountering very few subs.

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