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RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 10/30/2016 11:54:01 AM   
warspite1


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An interesting discussion has developed in the modding thread about Japan's options in 1941.

Does anyone know any good books on Japan's journey to war - and specifically the internal and external discussions, debates and communications on the options available re China, and what to do about Roosevelt's screw tightening on Japan's economic position?

I have read Rising Sun and The Road to War as well as countless books that touch on the subject high level. I am looking for something much more detailed that covers the thoughts of the army, the navy, the Emperor's role and those poor anti-war politicians who had to walk a fine line between trying to do what was best for Japan's long term future and the personal wish to keep their heads firmly attached to their body's.....

Thanks.

_____________________________

22nd November 1944 - The British Pacific Fleet is born (temporary avatar changes to commemorate the ships and aircraft). HM Ships Formidable, Illustrious, Victorious



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Post #: 151
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 10/30/2016 7:55:31 PM   
geofflambert


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It seems to me that the Japanese aren't much into writing histories, kind of like they weren't and maybe still aren't much into collecting intelligence. Notice below that only three out of eleven (not a scientific sample) is Japanese. Anyways a good place to start looking might be those two Wiki's.





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Post #: 152
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 10/30/2016 7:58:40 PM   
geofflambert


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Well, maybe not.




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RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 10/30/2016 8:03:13 PM   
geofflambert


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Here's Hata's list, might be some interesting stuff in there.




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Post #: 154
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 10/30/2016 8:24:56 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Here's Hata's list, might be some interesting stuff in there.




Is that the same Hata from Cap Mandrake's AAR? That guy was everywhere in WW II(D)!

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Post #: 155
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 11/1/2016 4:12:03 PM   
geofflambert


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I may have mentioned this before, but I was greatly impressed with this book when I was a teen. It mostly involves military issues but it's no fun to read. Kind of the way "Private Ryan" was no fun (for me). Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. I didn't realize it til today, or forgot, the Sand Creek Massacre occurred on my birthday. No, I'm not that old, it wasn't my birthday at the time (1864).

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Post #: 156
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 11/2/2016 3:17:27 AM   
Mike Dubost

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

An interesting discussion has developed in the modding thread about Japan's options in 1941.

Does anyone know any good books on Japan's journey to war - and specifically the internal and external discussions, debates and communications on the options available re China, and what to do about Roosevelt's screw tightening on Japan's economic position?

I have read Rising Sun and The Road to War as well as countless books that touch on the subject high level. I am looking for something much more detailed that covers the thoughts of the army, the navy, the Emperor's role and those poor anti-war politicians who had to walk a fine line between trying to do what was best for Japan's long term future and the personal wish to keep their heads firmly attached to their body's.....

Thanks.


Last year I read a book on this topic called Japan 1941 by Eri Hota. It talks about the private face and public face views of the admirals, statesmen, and generals. I found it an interesting read.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 157
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 11/2/2016 5:43:15 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

An interesting discussion has developed in the modding thread about Japan's options in 1941.

Does anyone know any good books on Japan's journey to war - and specifically the internal and external discussions, debates and communications on the options available re China, and what to do about Roosevelt's screw tightening on Japan's economic position?

I have read Rising Sun and The Road to War as well as countless books that touch on the subject high level. I am looking for something much more detailed that covers the thoughts of the army, the navy, the Emperor's role and those poor anti-war politicians who had to walk a fine line between trying to do what was best for Japan's long term future and the personal wish to keep their heads firmly attached to their body's.....

Thanks.


Last year I read a book on this topic called Japan 1941 by Eri Hota. It talks about the private face and public face views of the admirals, statesmen, and generals. I found it an interesting read.
warspite1

Mike this has really mixed reviews on Amazon. Does this book go into any detail on the Japanese options in 1941? For example is there any mention of the April 1941 pact with the USSR, who instigated it etc?

Thanks.


_____________________________

22nd November 1944 - The British Pacific Fleet is born (temporary avatar changes to commemorate the ships and aircraft). HM Ships Formidable, Illustrious, Victorious



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Post #: 158
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 11/2/2016 5:47:36 PM   
pontiouspilot


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You may try "Japan 1941" by Eri Hotta. I found it a bit ponderous but it covers the dysfunctional mess that Japan was in in 1941.

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Post #: 159
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 11/2/2016 6:02:55 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

You may try "Japan 1941" by Eri Hotta. I found it a bit ponderous but it covers the dysfunctional mess that Japan was in in 1941.
warspite1

Right so do fancy having a go at answering post 158?


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22nd November 1944 - The British Pacific Fleet is born (temporary avatar changes to commemorate the ships and aircraft). HM Ships Formidable, Illustrious, Victorious



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Post #: 160
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 11/2/2016 8:11:03 PM   
pontiouspilot


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sorry...missed the obvious!

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Post #: 161
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 11/3/2016 3:27:00 AM   
Mike Dubost

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Dubost


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

An interesting discussion has developed in the modding thread about Japan's options in 1941.

Does anyone know any good books on Japan's journey to war - and specifically the internal and external discussions, debates and communications on the options available re China, and what to do about Roosevelt's screw tightening on Japan's economic position?

I have read Rising Sun and The Road to War as well as countless books that touch on the subject high level. I am looking for something much more detailed that covers the thoughts of the army, the navy, the Emperor's role and those poor anti-war politicians who had to walk a fine line between trying to do what was best for Japan's long term future and the personal wish to keep their heads firmly attached to their body's.....

Thanks.


Last year I read a book on this topic called Japan 1941 by Eri Hota. It talks about the private face and public face views of the admirals, statesmen, and generals. I found it an interesting read.
warspite1

Mike this has really mixed reviews on Amazon. Does this book go into any detail on the Japanese options in 1941? For example is there any mention of the April 1941 pact with the USSR, who instigated it etc?

Thanks.



Well, not having read the reviews on Amazon yet, I am not in a position to comment intelligently. I intend to look just to see what they say.

As for your other questions: Yes, it does discuss the pact with the USSR and who instigated it. The book also includes the discussions and debates in Tokyo and the various options on the table. To a lesser extent, it also talks about debates in Washington. I think that is actually one possible criticism in that my recollection is the focus is much more on Tokyo than Washington, but it by no means exclusively Tokyo.
If you are asking about plausible options not on the table (for example, trying to mobilize Americans of Japanese descent as a pressure group/voting block, or maybe attempting major PRE-war support of Indian independence movements), then, no. The book is almost totally silent on such matters.

Edit "it exclusively Tokyo" left out "focuses on".

< Message edited by Mike Dubost -- 11/3/2016 3:28:28 AM >

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Post #: 162
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 11/4/2016 1:04:30 AM   
mullk

 

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I just started the fleet at flood tide
https://www.amazon.com/Fleet-Flood-Tide-America-1944-1945/dp/0345548701/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478217814&sr=8-1&keywords=the+fleet+at+flood+tide

< Message edited by mullk -- 11/4/2016 1:05:37 AM >


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Post #: 163
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 11/6/2017 4:48:48 PM   
Macclan5


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Bump
--


Interestingly just read Pacific Crucible by Ian Toll.

I presuppose many here have already read it.

It was on my go find list (rarely Amazon shop - more a book store type) and got it.

I read a number of posts from forumites indicating 'good but nothing new here' ~ and overall thats a fair assessment.

One note

"Conventional wisdom is that the Allies won a strategic victory in Coral Sea while the Japanese won a Tactical Victory'.

Mr Toll goes on to reference Websters Dictionary and speaks to various ways to tally up the losses. i.e. Yes Lexington / Oiler/ DD was lost in exchange for a smaller carrier etc..but the air groups and lack of participation of the 'b fleet team' in the battle of Midway only a month latter.therefore lack of concentration of forces.... etc

I wished Mr Toll 'expanded - or debated at more length within his book' ~ very good few pages summarizing the Battle of the Coral Sea.

I do not think I had read this thought debated before.

I think I had always followed in line with conventional wisdom in this score; but perhaps I too overvalued the loss of Lex in the balance of analysis at Coral Sea.

Perhaps there was no Japanese tactical victory at all. The sinking of the Lex did not:

(1) further Japan's strategic goals of Australian isolation
(2) prevent American operations at Midway
(3) create an opening for Imperial Japans expansion to Fiji or other South Pacific islands they had started to plan for

Anyway worth a good reread as I debate this in my own mind and gameplay.


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A People that values its privileges above it's principles will soon loose both. Dwight D Eisenhower.

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Post #: 164
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 11/6/2017 7:17:27 PM   
spence

 

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quote:

It seems to me that the Japanese aren't much into writing histories,


It seems to me that the Japanese aren't much into writing histories...IN ENGLISH

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Post #: 165
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