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RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11

 
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RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/4/2011 4:58:15 PM   
mdiehl

 

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Another good submarine account: Pigboat 39: An American Submarine Goes to War. by Bobette Gugliola. WW2 operational history of USS S-39.

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Post #: 61
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/4/2011 7:24:08 PM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

Aw crap, I have maybe 3-4 books on that list - anyone curious to throw their best 5 books out? I would like to improve my reading.

Honestly I've heard Shattered Sword 1000 times on this board and still haven't picked that book up yet. (dont hurt me)


do you have a period/place preference?

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Post #: 62
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/5/2011 2:22:17 AM   
Heeward


Posts: 316
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From: Lacey Washington
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Reading:
Descent into Darkness Pearl Harbor 1941 - A Navy Diver's Memoir by Edward C. Raymer - an enlightening read on the activities of Naval Salvage Divers working on the battleships at Pearl Harbor.


The British Pacific Fleet by David Hobbs - Except for the plethora of abbreviations, a good read on the formation, activities and demobilization of the British Pacific Fleet, support services in 1944 to 1945.

Finished Neptune's Inferno - I was disappointed in this book given the positive reviews on the forum.




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Post #: 63
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/7/2011 7:25:55 PM   
Pascal


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New book out in next couple weeks:

The Elusive Enemy: U.S. Naval Intelligence and the Imperial Japanese Fleet by Douglas Ford. Looks promising...



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Post #: 64
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/7/2011 7:27:40 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

A lot of people hook onto some really good mainstream books. This is good, but there's a whole bunch of stuff that isn't mainstream but is totally awesome in its own milieu. Here's some that I think worthwhile from a man who's been there and done that and can describe it in terms we can all understand. This is what the students at the Naval Academy read.

McGee, William L., The Amphibians Are Coming! Emergence of the 'Gator Navy and its Revolutionary Landing Craft, Vol. 1, BMC Publications;
McGee, William L., The Solomons Campaigns, 1942-1943: From Guadalcanal to Bougainville, Pacific War Turning Point, Vol. II, BMC Publications;
McGee, William L., Pacific Express: The Critical Role of Military Logistics in World War II, Vol. III, BMC Publications.

These are not your momma's coffee table Guadalcanal books.
Warspite1

1 + 2 sound interesting. I think I will take a chance and order no.2 from Amazon now because I am really struggling to make headway with Neptune's Inferno . Hopefully this will prove a better read; if not I think I will give up on the Solomons completely

Warspite1

1 + 2 arrived this morning - a brief skim through of The Solomons Campaigns fills me with high hopes for this book.

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Post #: 65
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/7/2011 8:00:53 PM   
Nikademus


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Have recently started The Burma Campaign: Disaster into Triumph 1942-45 by Frank McLynn.

Excellent book thus far. The author does an excellent job detailing the background of the campaign's origin and that of the broader conflict in the Pacific in similar style to Caputo's. I thought his commentary here was particularily refreshing: "Many Western histories begin their account of the origins of the Pacific War with a sudden, unexplained act of aggression when Japan invaded Manchuria in 1931, as if the militarists in Japan had appeared out of nowhere and for no reason; the triggers and precipitants, sadly were all too obvious, and not helped by an uncompromising and myopic Asian policy pursued by President Franklin Deleno Roosevelt after 1933."

The author is right. Few western histories take the time to fully map out the hows and whys of the Pacific conflict. Caputo was one of the few, as is Drea. Before anyone starts to think McLynn is a Japanese apologist, he does not shy away from mentioning the atrocities that the Japanese military initiated and that it forever stained the honor of the IJA during WWII as a result. Rather, like with the rise of Hitler and Nazi Germany, he links the rise of Japanese right wing nationalism and hardliner military dominance to events around the world and involving all participants and their actions....including the United States.

His analysis of Japanese military thought is on a par with Drea's analysis (aka, North vs South factions etc) though some may question his assertion that the US would have stayed out of the conflict (initially) had Japan not attacked the US and had aquienced to FDR on the China issue. Regardless it makes for good reading and careful thought.

Overall the author pulls no punches with anyone. He calls all sides on their fobiles as well as acomplishments. His descriptions of pre-war/immediate war Burma go a long way to to explaining in part the state of affairs there today. The book better explains why so many atrocities on all sides, particuarily by the Burmese themselves occured given the voltile dynamics in place...the issues, the angst and the outright anger. On the war itself, the book is valuable alone in being more detailed on the actions that occured before the Sittang bridge blowing which is where Louis Allen's pivitol work on Burma starts.

Allen's book is far more detailed, but Mclynn's focus on events as seen by and involving the four pivitol leaders he focuses on really helps the reader make better sense of one of the most complex campaigns of WWII. (With Allen, its easy to get lost in the details, which along with the dryness of the author's writing style is why i always tell people to read the book in small doses) Those leaders are Slim, Wingate, Stillwell and Mountbatten. I'd almost qualify Chiang as a fifth element as the author goes to good length in the beginning chapters to detail his involvement in Burma, his relationship to the Allies (FDR in particular) and of course Stillwell.

On an amusing note....Mclynn makes the same error in 2011 that Allen makes in his book of years past......calling Japanese fighters "Zeros" and not distinquishing them (actually Ki-43's) from the much more numerous Ki-27's. Other than this boo boo though.....i am thoroughly enjoying the book. He is especially skilled in his biographies of the before mentioned leaders.

anyway........long and short. This is the best book i've read in a while this year. As a Kindle download of course its a bargain vs. the Hardcover price.

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Post #: 66
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/8/2011 4:22:07 AM   
Wirraway_Ace


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thanks Nikademus. As I have noted before, I really enjoyed reading Allen's book in parallel with Slim to get two very different perspectives. I will pick up McLynn's too, and try not to grit my teeth too much as another author writing more than a half century after the fact trys to explain how FDR's policy of trying to influence an increasingly militaristic Japan (in the years after Japan demonstrated to world the depths to which it was capable) using economic levers was the wrong approach...Or US policy of an open China was both selfish and somehow unwise for the world economy, or that Japan saw no choice but to go to war because it demonstrably had no chance to compete effectively in trade by paying for imports or raw materials and turning them into high quality finished products, or...

Sorry for the rant, but I wish for the day when leaders and the led take responsibility for the decisions they make. There are always matters of extenuation and mitigation to every bad decision, but it does not change the fact that Japan made a choice to expand a war of aggression for its own gain and this was the proximate cause of millions of dead and maimed.

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Post #: 67
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/8/2011 2:29:27 PM   
ceremony

 

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WHat about James Tregaskis' Guadalcanal Diary?

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Post #: 68
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/9/2011 8:43:17 PM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

thanks Nikademus. As I have noted before, I really enjoyed reading Allen's book in parallel with Slim to get two very different perspectives. I will pick up McLynn's too, and try not to grit my teeth too much as another author writing more than a half century after the fact trys to explain how FDR's policy of trying to influence an increasingly militaristic Japan (in the years after Japan demonstrated to world the depths to which it was capable) using economic levers was the wrong approach...Or US policy of an open China was both selfish and somehow unwise for the world economy, or that Japan saw no choice but to go to war because it demonstrably had no chance to compete effectively in trade by paying for imports or raw materials and turning them into high quality finished products, or...

Sorry for the rant, but I wish for the day when leaders and the led take responsibility for the decisions they make. There are always matters of extenuation and mitigation to every bad decision, but it does not change the fact that Japan made a choice to expand a war of aggression for its own gain and this was the proximate cause of millions of dead and maimed.


No problem. More my fault really. It would be easy to take the passage i quoted and think the author is trying to saddle FDR with the blame. He isn't. He's just trying to explain in general of course, the myriad of factors, including personalities at play that factored into the events of the time, same as authors do when delving into the origins of Hitler's rise to power. FDR was but one piece in a much larger, more complex picture. It reminded me that all too often, the Pacific history is treated somewhat in a vacuum as the author pointed out. I think you will enjoy the book as much as I am. I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on it.

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Post #: 69
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/10/2011 12:40:57 AM   
Skyros


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I liked this book as well. It does a good job of describing life in the Asiatic Fleet pre war as well as how worn out the S boats were at the start of the war.
quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

Another good submarine account: Pigboat 39: An American Submarine Goes to War. by Bobette Gugliola. WW2 operational history of USS S-39.


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Post #: 70
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/10/2011 1:35:23 AM   
YankeeAirRat


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That is a good first person account of the first 8 months on the island. Between the inital landings and the post Santa Cruz engagement. I have a 1st edition of that signed by the Author in my bookshelf and just finished that this past winter. It is a little hard to keep the time line straight, since there were a few things he jumbled up while describing the actions going on the islands, but if you have a chance to buy a copy and read it. I would highly suggest it.

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Post #: 71
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/10/2011 8:43:11 AM   
Pascal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ceremony

WHat about James Tregaskis' Guadalcanal Diary?


+1

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Post #: 72
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/10/2011 4:26:20 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


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From: Briz Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

thanks Nikademus. As I have noted before, I really enjoyed reading Allen's book in parallel with Slim to get two very different perspectives. I will pick up McLynn's too, and try not to grit my teeth too much as another author writing more than a half century after the fact trys to explain how FDR's policy of trying to influence an increasingly militaristic Japan (in the years after Japan demonstrated to world the depths to which it was capable) using economic levers was the wrong approach...Or US policy of an open China was both selfish and somehow unwise for the world economy, or that Japan saw no choice but to go to war because it demonstrably had no chance to compete effectively in trade by paying for imports or raw materials and turning them into high quality finished products, or...

Sorry for the rant, but I wish for the day when leaders and the led take responsibility for the decisions they make. There are always matters of extenuation and mitigation to every bad decision, but it does not change the fact that Japan made a choice to expand a war of aggression for its own gain and this was the proximate cause of millions of dead and maimed.


No problem. More my fault really. It would be easy to take the passage i quoted and think the author is trying to saddle FDR with the blame. He isn't. He's just trying to explain in general of course, the myriad of factors, including personalities at play that factored into the events of the time, same as authors do when delving into the origins of Hitler's rise to power. FDR was but one piece in a much larger, more complex picture. It reminded me that all too often, the Pacific history is treated somewhat in a vacuum as the author pointed out. I think you will enjoy the book as much as I am. I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on it.


Thanks Nik. I have ordered it. The two Glantz books on the Soviet Manchuria offensive arrived from Amazon on my doorstep (as if by magic) this week, so it will be a little while before I get to it. The good news is, I have attritted the stack of books by my bed down to the two Glantz books, so I am both feeling good about myself and excited to explore Theaters I know the least about (Manchuria and Burma).

Mike

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Post #: 73
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 10/17/2011 5:23:54 PM   
Pascal


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Anyone read Craig Symonds' book on Midway? How does it stack up to all the others? Is it as good for the US side as "Shattered Sword" and "Midway Inquest" for the Japanese side?

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Post #: 74
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/19/2011 6:33:52 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

A lot of people hook onto some really good mainstream books. This is good, but there's a whole bunch of stuff that isn't mainstream but is totally awesome in its own milieu. Here's some that I think worthwhile from a man who's been there and done that and can describe it in terms we can all understand. This is what the students at the Naval Academy read.

McGee, William L., The Amphibians Are Coming! Emergence of the 'Gator Navy and its Revolutionary Landing Craft, Vol. 1, BMC Publications;
McGee, William L., The Solomons Campaigns, 1942-1943: From Guadalcanal to Bougainville, Pacific War Turning Point, Vol. II, BMC Publications;
McGee, William L., Pacific Express: The Critical Role of Military Logistics in World War II, Vol. III, BMC Publications.

These are not your momma's coffee table Guadalcanal books.
Warspite1

1 + 2 sound interesting. I think I will take a chance and order no.2 from Amazon now because I am really struggling to make headway with Neptune's Inferno . Hopefully this will prove a better read; if not I think I will give up on the Solomons completely

Warspite1

1 + 2 arrived this morning - a brief skim through of The Solomons Campaigns fills me with high hopes for this book.
Warspite1

Mmmmm....turns out that the first section on Guadalcanal is just an abridged and edited version of Morrison' work. That is very disappointing - especially when the torpedoeing of Saratoga is not thought worthy of inclusion . Makes me wonder what else will be edited out. As I say, disappointing


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Post #: 75
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/19/2011 10:55:20 AM   
Pascal


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I suspect from looking at the TOC of 'Pacific Express' that you'd be better served by reading the sources cited....

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Post #: 76
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/19/2011 7:17:26 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Mmmmm....turns out that the first section on Guadalcanal is just an abridged and edited version of Morrison' work. That is very disappointing - especially when the torpedoeing of Saratoga is not thought worthy of inclusion . Makes me wonder what else will be edited out. As I say, disappointing

Yeah, he does treat Guadalcanal as an abridgement of Morrison. Think he says as much. Likely because he sees it as a separate, forerunner campaign to the Solomons in a Gator Navy context, and thought Morrison did a good enough job with it already. He gets into full swing in Chapter 4. Hang in there.

< Message edited by JWE -- 10/19/2011 7:18:54 PM >


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Post #: 77
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 10/19/2011 8:58:24 PM   
steamboateng


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Just finished The Pacific War 1941-1945 by John Costello. This is an older book, first published in 1981; but is does include US Ultra decodes as relavent to the narrative. So far, it's the best single volume history of the Pacific war I've read. He amply gives credit to nearly all major force elements involved including the various Merchant Marine and Merchant Navies (How to go, guys!). The author is English by birth and an Oxford (I believe.) grad. The narrative is a comfortable read and clearly written. The book has some quiet surprises appended, including an overview of Allied code breaking efforts, as well as a peculiar chapter entittled 'Pearl Harbor - Warning or Decision?' The chapter discusses the controversial 'conspiracy' elements which we are so familiar with, nowadays.
I recommend this history.
The Pacific War 1941-1945
John Costello
720 pgs; including copious notes and bibliography.
ISBN 978-0-68-801620-3(pbk)

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Post #: 78
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 10/30/2011 2:56:07 AM   
YankeeAirRat


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***Updated****

Added a book based a series of fighter conferences between the USAAF, USN, RAF, RN and aircraft engineers talking about all the various fighters in production and at the start of the war. Along with some of the proposed fighters. It is pretty technical and very deep with both engineering data along with rambling disucssions off topic with regards to preformance vs quanity. However, for those interesting on actually input from actual aviators, leaders and engineers this might be something to add to your inventory. Look at the first posting on the first page under the section titled "General Reference"

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Post #: 79
Guadalcanal - 11/5/2011 11:40:53 AM   
mikkey


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I would like to ask on some good books about Guadalcanal. I think about Guadalcanal: The Definitive Account of the Landmark Battle and Neptune's Inferno and Midway's Shattered Sword. Any other tips for a good books? Thanks.

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Post #: 80
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 11/7/2011 9:47:47 PM   
Sardaukar


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*bump*

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Post #: 81
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 11/9/2011 6:18:28 AM   
John 3rd


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Racing the Sunrise MUST be added to the list. It provides a wealth of information regarding reinforcements sent throughout the Pacific. For a Modder it is a must have I would say...


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Post #: 82
RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 12/5/2011 4:21:56 AM   
IS2m

 

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Bump

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RE: Potentially the Book Thread. - 12/5/2011 4:59:50 AM   
jeffs


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> The book has some quiet surprises appended, including an overview of Allied code breaking efforts, as well as a peculiar chapter entittled 'Pearl Harbor - Warning or Decision?' The chapter discusses the controversial 'conspiracy' elements which we are so familiar with, nowadays.

That was quite good. And interesting....And one wonders what we don`t know!

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political and strategic mistakes live forever". The authors were refering to Japan but the same could be said of the US misadventure in Iraq

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Post #: 84
RE: Guadalcanal - 12/5/2011 12:49:59 PM   
SuluSea


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikkey

I would like to ask on some good books about Guadalcanal. I think about Guadalcanal: The Definitive Account of the Landmark Battle and Neptune's Inferno and Midway's Shattered Sword. Any other tips for a good books? Thanks.


Bloody Ridge: The Battle That Saved Guadalcanal
Great book, read the reviews on Amazon. The title is a little confusing because it's more than the Bloody Ridge battle. I felt the way Smith portrays the battles in combination with the maps it was easy for me to visualize the movements of forces. I did struggle a little with that in Franks book , being fair I read Smith after Frank... It's right up there with the best books I've read on Guadalcanal.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 12/5/2011 12:56:05 PM >


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Post #: 85
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 12/5/2011 4:01:43 PM   
mdiehl

 

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quote:

I would like to ask on some good books about Guadalcanal.


Lundstrom's The First Team at Guadalcanal is a critical read vis the air campaign in the Solomons in 1942 and it's very well written.

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Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

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Post #: 86
RE: ***Updated***:13AUG11 - 12/5/2011 11:03:46 PM   
mikkey


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thanks for suggestion SuluSea and mdiehl

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Post #: 87
RE: Guadalcanal - 12/6/2011 7:03:41 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikkey

I would like to ask on some good books about Guadalcanal. I think about Guadalcanal: The Definitive Account of the Landmark Battle and Neptune's Inferno and Midway's Shattered Sword. Any other tips for a good books? Thanks.
Warspite1

I am reading - and almost finished - Frank's Guadalcanal. This is an excellent, balanced book on a most interesting subject. It looks at the whole campaign, air, sea and land, and deals with each important battle in sufficient detail.

Not a fan of Neptune's Inferno. Could not get along with the author's writing style.

Shattered Sword needs no further comment. Quite. Simply. Brilliant.

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Post #: 88
RE: Guadalcanal - 12/6/2011 7:46:15 AM   
Gunner98


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Just finished ' Fire in the sky' - excellent depth and detail. Decidedly one sided - but he admits that, and in desperate need of a good editing to smooth the edges and remove the repeated elements - but a good read all round.

Has anyone see 'Oil on the Water' yet?

B

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Post #: 89
RE: Guadalcanal - 12/25/2011 4:10:49 PM   
mikkey


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thanks for suggestion, I was given Frank's Guadalcanal, Fire in the Sky and Shattered Sword as Christmas gift. Looks amazing, especially Guadalcanal and Shattered Sword. I have reading for a looooong time.

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