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Airfields and Air attacks

 
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Airfields and Air attacks - 7/5/2011 5:53:33 PM   
pad152

 

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Air Attack beyond turn 1.
I know attacks on airfields beyond turn one should be less effective but, I don't understand why more damaged aircraft aren't destroyed by an airfield attack on turn 2?

Example:
Launching a 100+ bomber attack against an air field that was damaged on turn1 puts with 5 aircraft for CAP but, only destroys 5 planes on turn 2, when there are 80+ damaged aircraft there.

Ground attacks on airfields
Bumping Airfields - I don't understand why some or all of the damaged aircraft aren't destroyed when an airfield is being bumped by an enemy unit? Wasn't it standard tactics to destroy any remaining aircraft if an airfield was about to be overrun?


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RE: Airfields and Air attacks - 7/7/2011 9:22:01 AM   
davetheroad

 

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I can't understand this as well

In the Leningrad scenario I blasted the entire recce compleiment of the russian airbase near riga
and bumped it at the end of the move. During the russian turn it had magically aqquired another 20 recce machines!

Maybe in allocating casulties the game engine ignores damaged aircraft?

For example if you have 20 'live' and 80 damaged planes on the airfield the game engine
only considers the 20 for calculating casualties? In reality all those damaged airframes
would be subject to further damage or destruction. If fact a already damaged plane would
have a higher chance of being destroyed because of accumulation damage.

I also noticed that it appears that therussian fighter pilots are as good as the germans, at least in 1942
where i would expect a large number of german fighters to sort of massacre a equivalent number of russian ones?

I read elsewhere that the air engine has serious problems and bugs so until these a fixed i will be continuing
with training exercises and will not dive into a campaign.

(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 2
RE: Airfields and Air attacks - 7/7/2011 4:53:50 PM   
kvolk


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I find just letting the AI run the air war makes all of the inconsistencies balance out.

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(in reply to davetheroad)
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RE: Airfields and Air attacks - 7/7/2011 6:26:15 PM   
Speedy

 

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Hi guys,

Q 1) - you'll always get more destroyed on turn 1 of 41 campaign as Axis as it's to simulate the surprise effect I.e. Soviet planes all lined up, no dispersal, camouflage measures etc. Afters wars started and a weeks gone by you'd expect basic measures to be implemented hence not turn 1 destruction.

Q 2) - from what I know and believe how things work damaged planes will get destroyed when the airbase is overrun and bumped. If you have examples this is not the case let me know. For example if you bump an enemy airbase with 50/100 planes then 50 should be destroyed when you bump it.

The air war needs work. It's recognised by all but it's a big task, bigger than some may realise, and it will be looked at in due course.

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RE: Airfields and Air attacks - 7/16/2011 8:27:55 PM   
pad152

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

Hi guys,

Q 1) - you'll always get more destroyed on turn 1 of 41 campaign as Axis as it's to simulate the surprise effect I.e. Soviet planes all lined up, no dispersal, camouflage measures etc. Afters wars started and a weeks gone by you'd expect basic measures to be implemented hence not turn 1 destruction.

Q 2) - from what I know and believe how things work damaged planes will get destroyed when the airbase is overrun and bumped. If you have examples this is not the case let me know. For example if you bump an enemy airbase with 50/100 planes then 50 should be destroyed when you bump it.

The air war needs work. It's recognised by all but it's a big task, bigger than some may realise, and it will be looked at in due course.



Q1
Yes I know you get more destroyed aircraft on turn 1, my point is air attacks turn 1 (75-85% of aircraft damaged/destroyed), after turn 1 you never get 2 or 3% of aircraft damaged or destroyed. If an airfield has a lot of damaged aircraft one would expect to see better results.


Q2
Playing against the AI, on turn 2, I' over ran several Soviet airbases that were damaged on turn 1 but I didn't see any reported increase in Soviet aircraft losses, one base I know had 80 damaged aircraft.

(in reply to Speedy)
Post #: 5
RE: Airfields and Air attacks - 7/28/2011 9:28:53 PM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kvolk
I find just letting the AI run the air war makes all of the inconsistencies balance out.

Does it just "feel" that way to you OR do you have some hard data for evidence?

(in reply to kvolk)
Post #: 6
RE: Airfields and Air attacks - 7/28/2011 10:24:57 PM   
kvolk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kvolk
I find just letting the AI run the air war makes all of the inconsistencies balance out.

Does it just "feel" that way to you OR do you have some hard data for evidence?


Mostly just intuition...I don't see very much in the way of loses for me and I don't see the AI influencing the battles much against me with air power so the net to me is neutral. That also is only one campaign game and a few scenarios played by me against the AI so not much to go on I admit...

_____________________________

Leadership is intangible, and therefore no weapon ever designed can replace it.
Omar N. Bradley

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
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RE: Airfields and Air attacks - 7/28/2011 11:57:10 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

Playing against the AI, on turn 2, I' over ran several Soviet airbases that were damaged on turn 1 but I didn't see any reported increase in Soviet aircraft losses, one base I know had 80 damaged aircraft.


The aircraft might've been in reserve mode. The first number is ready aircraft and the second number ready+damaged+reserve aircraft stationed at the air base. Reserve aircraft also fly away undamaged when you overrun the air base, like ready aircraft.

-

quote:

I find just letting the AI run the air war makes all of the inconsistencies balance out.


Well, I'm having a lot more success with the air war now that I don't manually select air groups and just right click on a Soviet air base. No idea why, but I'm destroying around 500 Soviet aircraft per turn, so I'm not complaining. It's just odd that the result is different than from when you do it manually.

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RE: Airfields and Air attacks - 7/29/2011 2:10:02 AM   
larryfulkerson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
Well, I'm having a lot more success with the air war now that I don't manually select air groups and just right click on a Soviet air base. No idea why, but I'm destroying around 500 Soviet aircraft per turn, so I'm not complaining. It's just odd that the result is different than from when you do it manually.

I agree. That symptom suggests that shift-right-clicking to manually select the attackers dosen't actually send everybody you have selected. I think I remember asking to send 271 bombers along with 115 fighters and what actually got sent was 83 bombers and 50 some fighters. I'm not sure what the algorythum is to determine what actually gets sent but I'm thinking that the list you pick the attackers from lists some groups that aren't actually eligible to fly or something. Maybe it includes reserve aircraft in the picking but never flies the reserve planes that were picked. Or something.

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 9
RE: Airfields and Air attacks - 7/29/2011 12:16:01 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Yes, simply right clicking seems to send more planes (which don't automatically destroy more aircraft than fewer planes, but at least there's a better chance that they'll cause some damage).

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Post #: 10
RE: Airfields and Air attacks - 7/29/2011 1:19:30 PM   
Hermann

 

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better dispersal and less obsolete models and trainers laying about to pad the numbers. peacetime AFs have more planes than pilots and no early warning to allow them to scramble. as time goes theres pilots for every plane and they take off ond hide when enemies approach

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 11
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