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RE: Pelton vs Kamil

 
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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/17/2011 6:42:28 AM   
76mm


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Well that part of the front looks to be a snooze-fest, both sides are well dug-in.

My game with Ketza actually looked similar, he was able to cut through my fortified carpet rather easily in certain sectors, I assume by concentrating replacements, arty, aircraft, and pioneers there. That said, the situation hardly leads to a fluid or interesting game.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/17/2011 10:20:00 AM   
Pelton

 

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I will try and punch through the carpet, but it doesn't look so hot heheh.

If I am unable to punch through I probably start digging in along the front.


I thk many new games will have same issue as before 1.05. Poeple now know they only need to evac arm pts and can retreat east playing it safe. 75% or more of front becomes dead by turn 7 to 10. Only real action is around Leningrad until taken and Moscow.

This will make for larger then normal pre 1.05 russian and german armys. So going static and digging in will be only smart options.

I will give it a go during summer, but Kamil has huge army and knows his logistics. If I am unable to pocket units then me attacking would be a waste of equipment.

Pelton


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/17/2011 10:32:43 AM   
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Well you've probably seen it already, but I would look at Ketza's AAR vs me to see whatever he did to get through the carpet, it was pretty effective. IIRC, my nominal CVs were being reduced by 70-90% in virtually every battle, the fortifications did not seem to do any good at all. That said, Kamil's CVs look higher than mine were, so it could be a bit harder for you...only one way to find out!

You only have to get two prongs a couple of hexes into his carpet to present him with an uncomfortable dilemna: remain, under risk of being pocketed, or pull back and say goodbye to his forts. You'll have to deal with counter-attacks, but any such concentration of forces will also put more of his units at risk of being encircled.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 10/17/2011 10:38:21 AM >

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/21/2011 12:50:57 AM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 54
88 armaments captured.
310,000 manpower in pool
266,00 armarments in pool
Tring to punch a hole in the line in the south.






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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/21/2011 12:51:36 AM   
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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/21/2011 12:52:25 AM   
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Dead

I be watching this closely. To see if its worth attacking or not.




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< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/21/2011 12:53:52 AM >

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/21/2011 12:54:02 AM   
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OOB I face a huge army.

Be a challage for sure.




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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/21/2011 7:06:10 AM   
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Curious what loss ratios you are seeing in your successful attacks, and whether you have stuffed the attacking divs with pioneers, arty, etc.?

Also, it looks like your are attacking with only one prong, which I think is much less effective than with two, although obviously requiring a greater concentration of forces. Going against fortified carpets you can really achieve success, but probably only if you hit with everything you have.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/21/2011 12:16:13 PM   
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We dont have any contact in front just north of D-town. So I have no way to advance, if I do he has very strong armor so I suffer from counter attacks before I get to even start attacking his lines.

I do have units loaded up per Katza advice.

The morale in my units is very low so CV suck all around for 42. My only chance is to push past his forts then have some fun in open.

I have had exp vs 3 other players with close to 8 million man armys in 42 and done it both the double prong and single. The single worked and double failed.

Germans just dont have forse for double in 42 until fort lines are broken.

I am attacking 50+ CV hexes, thought I did great for moving 2 hexes 4 wide.

Lose ratio was 1 to 1.5 ish very very bad ratio.

I am going to keep tring for a few more turns if I can't pocket anything I will simply start digging in for the long haul.

Pelton

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/22/2011 12:05:26 PM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 55
88 armaments captured.
310,000 manpower in pool
266,00 armarments in pool


Seeing I am not able to brake through withen 2 turns or pocket units. I am digging in. I be posting every 10 turns.

1.05 losses to russian units per battle (42) seem much lower the pre 1.05 so there is zero point in wasting troops.
The number of PZers lost to moving is a joke and part of the reason its not worth pushing.
And there just is zero reason for me as the German to do anything other then dig in.

WW I on the Eastern Front has begun.

I do have good numbers but russian defending CV are just to high and thick. Also russian reserves can move much faster then my tanks by rail. So unless you can pocket units in 1 turn there will be a huge blob around possible spearheads.

I have exp fighting during 42 and its easy to tell withen 2 turns if pocketing units is going to be possible or not.

Again the game is on a knife edge. If as the German you can pocket units early in 42 the Russian is toast an will stop sending turns back before fall. If you can not pocket units as German withen a few turns start digging.

My numbers are good armerments good so I should be able to build a very strong defence by Jan 43.
Looks like I can go 4 deep with forts.
It will take a few turns to spread out units allong line then start digging and rebuilding infantry armys.
PZers should be in great shape come 43 so counter attacking will be easy no matter the CV with right combo of art and eng.
I would expect lines to be totally static until late 43.

This will be my first game pre 1v1=2v1 where I go static along the lines. vs Hoooper it was a joke because of rule set.
I am much stronger this time around and Red arm pt losses higher then Hooopers and output much lower.

I learned allot from that game.




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< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/22/2011 12:12:24 PM >

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/22/2011 12:06:07 PM   
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OOB




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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/22/2011 2:51:43 PM   
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More detailed situation after first turn of summer offensive. (t54, before Pelton's last move which was displayed above)




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< Message edited by Kamil -- 10/22/2011 2:53:24 PM >

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/22/2011 3:53:04 PM   
olivier34

 

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There must be something to do against this carpet Pelton ! Could be interesting if you give it a try...but when I look at Kamil'screenshot, it remember me my situation in my GC. You do a hole, maybe of 20 or 30 miles, you get in and you are the next turn kicked out of your position.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/22/2011 4:03:07 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Kamil, you've just been awarded the "Carpet Psycho of The Trimester". 76mm or myself on my other games are mere aficionados

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/22/2011 4:16:41 PM   
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Pelton,

How in the heck do were you able to get 320,000 manpower in the pool as axis on t55? Never seen that, ever. In fact I'd be happy to have 3,200 in the pool, since there's usually nothing in the pool. Please explain how this is possible? I suppose Hiwis helping now?

Thanks

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/22/2011 4:17:13 PM   
Flaviusx


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Sigh.

His forts aren't even all that strong. But that is one crazy carpet.

I won't be doing this in our game, Pelton. I think this is the wrong way to play the Sovs in 42. I absolutely do not think forcing a turtle on the Germans is in the Soviet interest. The trick is to keep things mobile, but not too much so.



< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 10/22/2011 4:19:32 PM >


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/22/2011 4:42:23 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
His forts aren't even all that strong. But that is one crazy carpet.

I won't be doing this in our game, Pelton. I think this is the wrong way to play the Sovs in 42. I absolutely do not think forcing a turtle on the Germans is in the Soviet interest. The trick is to keep things mobile, but not too much so.


Whoa, that is a carpet indeed, I am clearly a rank amateur! I think Pelton is right to call it quits on the attack.

A couple of comments re Flaviusx's remarks:
1) his forts aren't that strong, but they're as good as can be expected under 1.05 I think.
2) I'd like to see how you propose to keep things mobile; I agree that if Pelton goes turtle he'll be VERY difficult to dislodge, but at the same time most Germans won't try grand offensives if you have massive reserves lurking behind the lines, so the Germans might go turtle whatever the Sovs do, and yet the Sovs will find it difficult to attack.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 10/22/2011 4:44:21 PM >

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/22/2011 4:49:19 PM   
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I'm hoping it won't be this easy to mass carpet with a fresh 1.05 start. These 1.04 games that transition to 1.05 just don't seem to be playing out right. The Soviet isn't being stressed enough in manpower or armaments early on.

I had trouble getting the Red Army much past 6 million or building up any kind of armament reserve in 1942 in a fresh start against the AI set to hard.

Kamil also had an amazingly good blizzard counteroffensive. Killing off 20 odd German divisions is practically a Stalingrad type result.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/23/2011 12:24:20 AM   
Kamil

 

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T55, second turn of summer

I can't help myself and I try to do everything to avoid maneuver warfare. Problem is Pelton is able to reduce combat value of my troops at least by the half. So my idea is simple - if something doesn't work I need to get more.




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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/23/2011 8:53:48 AM   
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Actually the way that Pelton is holding his front line with only single units which are not all even well dug-in, you should be able to attack successfully, at least on parts of the front. For instance, every one of his frontline hexes in your last screen shot looks vulnerable.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/23/2011 12:57:06 PM   
Kamil

 

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quote:

76mm

Actually the way that Pelton is holding his front line with only single units which are not all even well dug-in, you should be able to attack successfully, at least on parts of the front. For instance, every one of his frontline hexes in your last screen shot looks vulnerable.



He is able to focus his forces (panzers) much faster than me. More over they are much, much stronger than my mobile units, so every half-hearted offensive is big big gamble.

< Message edited by Kamil -- 10/23/2011 1:00:42 PM >

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/23/2011 1:08:30 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I'm hoping it won't be this easy to mass carpet with a fresh 1.05 start. These 1.04 games that transition to 1.05 just don't seem to be playing out right. The Soviet isn't being stressed enough in manpower or armaments early on.

I had trouble getting the Red Army much past 6 million or building up any kind of armament reserve in 1942 in a fresh start against the AI set to hard.

Kamil also had an amazingly good blizzard counteroffensive. Killing off 20 odd German divisions is practically a Stalingrad type result.


I think this is very true and true.

Kamil had good O, because I had to push hard to get to 88 arm pts bagged, so I was totally unprepared for winter. Kamil is a very good Russian player.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/23/2011 1:16:26 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirkgregerson

Pelton,

How in the heck do were you able to get 320,000 manpower in the pool as axis on t55? Never seen that, ever. In fact I'd be happy to have 3,200 in the pool, since there's usually nothing in the pool. Please explain how this is possible? I suppose Hiwis helping now?

Thanks



I set support units to 50%
Infantry units at 80%(refit off units March 42 atleast) other then 18th army (refit on 100%), MT (refit on 100%)and Cav (refit on 100%).
Mech/PZ units are set to 100% with refit off until around turn 10-12. Some games I leave them off units until March 42. Depends on game.

Basicly wounded men pile up in the pool, why send then off into blizzard to be killed by general winter?

This will bring my infantry units up to at least 80% toe quickly. I only refit about 25% of units a turn as per Katza's advise. Refit the units closest to fighting ect.

Over about 5 turns I should be fully refit, balanced out and ready to counter attack if possible strike east if Kamil gives me something worth taking. I have gotten allot of advise from Katza over the last few months about defending as German so hopefully I am a good student and make my teacher proud.

Attacking as German is one thing defending is another.

I think 1.05 might be different. Not sure about mine and Flaviusx game, but the other 2 I have going I played allot different. You play the best it makes your game much better next time around.

Pelton



< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/23/2011 1:20:33 PM >

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/23/2011 4:53:17 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kamil
He is able to focus his forces (panzers) much faster than me. More over they are much, much stronger than my mobile units, so every half-hearted offensive is big big gamble.

I wasn't really thinking about mobile units, but just using rifle corps to grind forward, just to keep him from getting dug in too deeply. If you don't hit him now it will be muich harder to get him out later.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/24/2011 5:12:05 AM   
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"Infantry units at 80%" - this is the trick more than anything else; on move 12 of a current game I have over 250,000 men in the manpower pool.

Marquo

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/25/2011 12:05:54 AM   
Kamil

 

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T58 (July '42)

Nothing is happening apart from far south - my positions in Crimea look vulnerable.




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< Message edited by Kamil -- 10/25/2011 12:09:32 AM >

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/30/2011 3:19:06 AM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 60 - 70 Trends
I only really have had one other game of the completed ( the other 10 stopped sending in turns) 11 games that made it past turn 70. Which was Pelton vs Hoooper. Sorry almost forgot Larry, we got into early 43 I beleive.

Larry has the AAR on that game on forums.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2789069&mpage=1&key=

Stats from Pelton vs Hoooper game starting turn 70 were

————————-Men————Guns———-Tanks——Planes
GHC—————2,856,624———33,000———2,557———2,418
SHC-—————7,118,033———88,525———6,641——-11,214

Only info on losses were German 2.6 million and Russian 6.0 million. The losses in Kamil vs Pelton are much lower for Kamil only 4.0 million and myself 1.8 million. Thats why my manpower is so much more this game then Hoooper, just a lack of fighting. 800,000 less losses this game so I have about 800,000 more men. So there seems to be a good balance between games and patchs 1.04 and 1.05 as far as the German numbers go. As Russian numbers go its about 600,000 less then pre 1.04, basicly just what it should be because of lower manpower #, Flaviusx said about 500,000 less per yr.

The big difference in games is the Russian armament production levels, the 47mm bug is fixed which wasted 1/2 the German armaments per turn, no 1v1=2v1 rule after February 42 and we were fighting much more before this point. I was also a newbie at the air game. With in 50 turns the German army was broken, less then 2.3 million men. During that game from turn 70 to 80 Hoooper took almost 1 million losses and still gained 700,000 men, yes game was more then a little out of balance. Ratio was 2.9 to 1 and Russian army was still growing. Basicly it could take 5 to 1 losses and still keep plowing forward. Here are 60 - 70 trends for Pelton vs Kamil.
Losses from turn 60 to 70
————————-Men————Guns———-Tanks——Planes
GHC—————–46,000———–—276———–—59———–120
SHC-—————–86,296———–-1,762———–-164———-789

OOB difference from turn 60 to 70.

GHC————–—+216,772———+1997——— +988———(-196)
SHC-————— +456,382———+13,318——+1840———+614

Numbers for the Germans are higher then historical, but we are not fighting a historical game. Front went static after Blizzard ended and Kamil has not been attacking at all.

I know all the Russian fan boys will say The German numbers must be historical, but again this war has been 100% unlike history. There was just 0 reason for me to try attacking. If there is nothing to gain why bother?

I did manage to destroy 88 armament points and I am sure this will have an impact on this game which started about a month before 1.05 was released. I doubt Kamil will beable to grind me into the ground in 50 turns as Hoooper did. Hoooper because of the 1v1=2v1 rule started attacking around turn 50, 10 or so attacks per turn pushing out of high level forts.

I basically know the tempo of attacks Kamil will need to be doing per turn to start to lower my manpower pool. The key for me is staying above 2.3 million men.

All Panzer units are at 100% TOE. 90% of infantry are at 90% TOE. All artillery units are at max TOE also.

I have 25,000 Germans in pool and 386,698 allies in pool
I have 261,978 German armaments in pool along with 465,198 ally armaments in pool. I have level 3 forts 4 rows deep and 1.5 rows of diggers. PZ and Mech units are full of artillery and pioneers for counter attacking. Air force is in great shape. I can get +50 CV’s along allot of the line so I know where the weaker spots will be.

25% of infantry units are in 2nd line so I should beable to rotate and refit units as needed.

Lets see what turns 70 to 80 bring for fun.


Pelton






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< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/30/2011 3:43:41 AM >

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/30/2011 3:20:31 AM   
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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/30/2011 3:21:07 AM   
Pelton

 

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AGC




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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 10/30/2011 3:21:41 AM   
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