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RE: Pelton vs Kamil

 
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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/9/2012 5:05:25 PM   
Kamil

 

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161 OOB


From bad to worse. Once Soviets gather momentum, there is no way of stopping them.




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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/9/2012 5:07:39 PM   
Kamil

 

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161 morale


They know their trade now.




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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/9/2012 6:14:10 PM   
Flaviusx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Schmart


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
The German army was at it pinnacle in 1943 not 1941 hehehe what are you smoking?

In 1941 the German army had some of the worst equipment in the world. The French,English and Russians had better Artillary, tanks, AC ect ect ect. The training of new replasements never changed until late 43.


The only thing being smoked, is reality. Morale-wise, the Germans were most assuredly at their pinnacle in 1941. It was downhill from there. Slowly at first, but as defeats added up, it accelerated. The influx of HIWIs and Ost Battalions and additional watering down of manpower began before late 1943.


Yes and no. The infantry peaked in 41 and declined thereafter. Arguably the mechanized forces got a second wind in 43 and in some respects may have reached their height in that year thanks to the Guderian reforms. Unfortunately, all that carefully husbanded reform and refitting got thrown away in Kursk.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/10/2012 2:33:01 AM   
Farfarer

 

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Imagine what the Kwantung Army felt like when these guys and their leaders seasoned from 4 years war against the Wehrmacht sliced into Manchuria.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/10/2012 2:48:14 AM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Farfarer

Imagine what the Kwantung Army felt like when these guys and their leaders seasoned from 4 years war against the Wehrmacht sliced into Manchuria.


It was rather quick (like modern days dentists) When I found this pic two months ago, I noticed I possibly was at the EXACT same place of these Red Army soldiers (but in 2009). The Songhua River in Harbin.

Yes, it has to be the same place. There were ships where you see the ones in the photo: to cross the river (which I did). In fact the ship which is closest to shore is strikingly familiar to the one I boarded! LOL




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< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 2/10/2012 2:55:29 AM >


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/10/2012 2:58:42 AM   
Farfarer

 

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Spector's book "In the ruins of empire" (i think) is fascinating. I had no idea that enormous japanese armies remained essentally in the employ f western powers for years and years after VJ day to keep order, or that Japan had spent so much to to modernize/colonize/annex Manchukuo ( which was promptly removed locust-mode by Stalin). Sorry thread hijack. Good AAR!

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/11/2012 3:09:04 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

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How many cav corps do you have? Seems like maybe more of them than tank corps.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/12/2012 12:21:56 AM   
Kamil

 

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quote:

M60A3TTS

How many cav corps do you have? Seems like maybe more of them than tank corps.



23 cavalry, 3 mech and 31 tank

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/12/2012 1:07:34 AM   
M60A3TTS

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kamil

quote:

M60A3TTS

How many cav corps do you have? Seems like maybe more of them than tank corps.



23 cavalry, 3 mech and 31 tank


Interesting. I was thinking that you would be having a shortage of trucks with that many tank corps. But maybe you don't use many tank attachments or lost few truck factories in 1941

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/13/2012 12:20:12 AM   
Kamil

 

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162 Overview


Transitory turn.


Pelton is conserving his strength by withdrawing to next defensive line - river Wisla.

In the meantime Romanians change sides.




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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/14/2012 12:30:51 AM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 163
320,000 armament pts in the pool
37,000 men in manpower pool

I think the manpower issue was fixed. I have been taking a beating and manpower pool is low with allot of armament pt's still in pool.

I have fallen back to the first river defence line. I held it for one turn woot!
The Northern part of line seems safe as I think the railheads are many miles to east, many Kamil can throw up a pic of it.




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_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/14/2012 12:31:54 AM   
Pelton

 

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The center of line seems safe for a turn. The line is fairly solid behind line for a turn or 2 hopefully.




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< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/14/2012 12:33:19 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

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Post #: 372
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/14/2012 12:35:11 AM   
Pelton

 

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Center south. Kamil has most of his armor and best troops in this area. I am hoping to hold the general line for a turn and start withdrawing.




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_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

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Post #: 373
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/14/2012 12:36:55 AM   
Pelton

 

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Far south I am in full run Forrest run mode! I have a line built in western Hungry behind a river I am falling back to.

next time around I will leave Romanian on its own once the writing is on the wall. I could be using these extra divisions to dig in a 2nd and 3rd row of forts in front and behind river.




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< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/14/2012 12:41:49 AM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 374
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/14/2012 12:37:59 AM   
Pelton

 

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Loses




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_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 375
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/14/2012 12:38:45 AM   
Pelton

 

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OOB




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_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 376
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/14/2012 2:28:44 PM   
Kamil

 

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163 overview


Thanks to shortening of the front, Pelton's defences are very strong. My first assault across river Wisla was unsuccessful. btw, I might be wrong, but defenders losses seems to be pretty high.




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< Message edited by Kamil -- 2/14/2012 2:29:43 PM >

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/14/2012 2:32:23 PM   
Kamil

 

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163 elite strike force


It is second consecutive turn of rest for my armoured forces, so boys grow big and fat.

Below I present my elite formation, with proper leadership and within command limits of both army and front.




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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/14/2012 5:03:12 PM   
Pelton

 

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LOl that just doesn't seem realistic at all. Attacking across a hvy defended river and the loses at 1=1.

I think that just might need to be addressed.

Lowering of the SHC manpower # is not going to fix anything when loses are so clearly out of wack.

The problem is not German retreat losses but Russian loses when they lose.

Pelton

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Kamil)
Post #: 379
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/14/2012 5:47:58 PM   
Seminole


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quote:

The problem is not German retreat losses but Russian loses when they lose.


But look how many tubes he brought to that fight. He had one artillery piece for every 8 men you had!
Look at his command penalties, too. It seems like much of his force couldn't even find the fight.

There are SO many variables in each combat (and that is by design), it's really hard to draw conclusions from a few instances.

This should make you feel better:


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Post #: 380
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/16/2012 6:11:54 PM   
Kamil

 

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164 overview


I decided to exploit weakest part of Pelton's defences of river Wisla - east of Krakow. Out of two options I had, I think I have chosen wrong one. Instead of blowing up the hole in his defences and penetrating far and deep I settled for half-measure - gaining bridgehead, plus minor encirclement of 6 divisions.


I gained second crossing too. It is little bit to the north, near river Wieprz. I think, that one of the battles that taken place during these crossing involved most soldiers and guns I ever assembled for one attack.




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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/16/2012 6:23:56 PM   
Seminole


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I guess nearly 9,000 artillery tubes led to disruption, eh?
Ever watch one of these monster fights with message level 7 just to see what it doing all the killing?

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Post #: 382
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/16/2012 10:44:26 PM   
Kamil

 

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quote:

Seminole

Ever watch one of these monster fights with message level 7 just to see what it doing all the killing?



I tried once, but I could not endure it for more than 2 minutes. I got strange feeling, that I would turn 40 before combat would have ended.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/18/2012 7:07:39 PM   
juret

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

The problem is not German retreat losses but Russian loses when they lose.


But look how many tubes he brought to that fight. He had one artillery piece for every 8 men you had!
Look at his command penalties, too. It seems like much of his force couldn't even find the fight.

There are SO many variables in each combat (and that is by design), it's really hard to draw conclusions from a few instances.

This should make you feel better:




attacking over fortified river costed 1:10 to 1:20 for attacker.
Just a few days for defenders to prepare make attacks very hard couse mashinegun nets dugin cower huge areas that u gotta cross somehow and preplanned arty on riverbanks makes it extremly hard operation.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/18/2012 11:47:34 PM   
Kamil

 

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165 overview


Another boring report - Pelton is withdrawing and I am advancing. Prove below.




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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/19/2012 12:26:31 PM   
Pelton

 

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Not really anything the German can do once it becomes clear that you can't pocket units.

All things being equal, which they hardly ever are, the SHC player should easly beable to stop German attacks during the late summer of 1942. Once that happens because of the nerfed combat ratio loses even when the German player wins it is 100% hurting the German player to attack. So it becomes a boring steam roller west for 150ish odd turns.

You can't do anything specail to defend as German as you simply don't have enough units to do anything other then fight forward with a few mech units behind the front. Reserve statis can be used but one panzer division 20 cv's does nothing to up the odds of a fight thats got 150+ cv attacking. Again your really only hrting yourself. The Red Machine has stacks and stacks of 50-50 CV hexes of units with art.

The lowering of the manpower * really is not going to help at all in games where both players are equal as I am sure Kamil has millions and millions of men in his manpower pool as 8421 all rdy has in his with a 7+ million man army in 1942.

The center of the issue is far to low russian losses and far to high german losses for winning battles from 42 on.

I wish there was a button for switching from human to computer control of the game and not a auto win button.

Hoooper/Kamil and 8421 are all good Russian players. Not much you can do as German attacking in 42 as combat ratio is much much lower then historical in 1942. Its far to easy for Red Army to attack because the lose ratio is so low. Russian took massive loses attacking in 1942.

Lower german retreat loses is not a reflextion of history and does noting to address morale which is all that really matters.

The attrition ratio is not reflective of the 3 to1 ratio. Its about 2 to1 which is even less then what the Russians admitted to from 42 to 44.

Russian losses need to be put back where they were before 1v1=2v1 was removed.


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afmyypGyfng&list=PLrY4H4gWWBircAjo

(in reply to Kamil)
Post #: 386
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/21/2012 12:13:29 AM   
Kamil

 

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166 overview


My infantry reached enemy lines, so I undertaken partially successful assault on Pelton's positions near Krakow - penetration in narrow and shallow so it will only lead to another withdrawal of enemy forces.




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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/21/2012 12:15:18 AM   
Kamil

 

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166 combat results spam


Results of majority of my deliberate attacks.




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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/21/2012 12:32:50 AM   
vicberg

 

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Production is the key to any game like this worth it's salt.  Let production dictate the game.  If the Germans significantly damage russian production, so be it and that it reflected in 42/43.  If they don't, then they suffer.  But any artifical combat affects should be removed.  Let the combat system dictate itself. 

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Post #: 389
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 2/21/2012 12:34:10 AM   
vicberg

 

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Pelton,

As a newbie German, what do you do with support units?  I need all the help I can get.  :)

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Post #: 390
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