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RE: Pelton vs Kamil

 
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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/3/2012 4:29:54 AM   
Pelton

 

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AGC: 4 hexes are lost in deferent areas of the front. II SS Panzer corps is taken out of reserve and set to Keiv.

All areas of front are 3 deep with level 2 and 3 forts with regiments digging new forts behind any spots where a hex was lost.




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15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/3/2012 4:41:39 AM   
Pelton

 

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AGS: This is the area of the most fighting. 1st PZ G and the 2 corps of infantry reserves are rushed to the front. This appears to be the offensive I have been waiting for.

3 divisions were cut off, but were able to make it back to friendly lines.

2 large morale building counter attacks resulted in Russian retreats.

The lines in the south are 4 to 6 hexes deep of level 2 - 3 forts with another line of units digging in.

Protecting our allies is job #1 and I am guessing Kamils first major target.

There is no way of knowing for sure how this will play out. It will take atleast 10 turns to see the trends in men,guns and tanks.

My OOB only dropped 4,000 that turn. Kamil only won 55% of his attacks which is a good number for me. I think if I can keep him under 66% and get 2 or 3 large morale building counter attacks, my over all morale level will stay basicly static.

I will only counter attack easy stacks to build morale.

27 attacks per turn is a high tempo for sure.

Spring 1944 lines are about 1/3 finished. I should have them done long before spring.




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GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/3/2012 5:45:08 AM   
Wuffer

 

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What's behind his first line???

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/3/2012 6:27:02 AM   
jjdenver

 

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Honestly the triple/quadruple/quintuple line carpets on display here make me a bit nauseous. I really doubt this is what the game designers had in mind and it's spectacularly gamey to see this sort of play.

Is there anything planned to get rid of the carpet syndrome and the huge density of units in the game? Really it's just ridiculous looking.

Sigh.

< Message edited by jjdenver -- 1/3/2012 6:28:46 AM >


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/3/2012 9:15:14 AM   
BigAnorak


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quote:

Really it's just ridiculous looking.


I agree, but it is almost an inevitable by-product of the 1.05 changes, and looks like the only way the Axis can get defensive CVs to a competitive level especially in the south where there is very little helpful defensive terrain.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/3/2012 11:02:19 AM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

Honestly the triple/quadruple/quintuple line carpets on display here make me a bit nauseous. I really doubt this is what the game designers had in mind and it's spectacularly gamey to see this sort of play.

Is there anything planned to get rid of the carpet syndrome and the huge density of units in the game? Really it's just ridiculous looking.

Sigh.


Even with the silly looking fort belts, red losses are nauseous low. A German infantry division which was historically the same strength as a russian rifle corps (1943 to 1944) is a 3rd the strength in game.

With unrealistic CV, you get unrealistic tactics.

Losses should be much higher because of density, but they aren't.

This is not a by product of 1.05, before 1.05 the fort belt would be all level 4 forts, now its only level 2 and 3.

So the by product is its much easyer for the Red Machine to get through the fort belt.

Remeber the Germans only attack for 34 turns out of the 225.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 1/3/2012 11:07:04 AM >


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8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/3/2012 12:30:13 PM   
Encircled


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Probably a daft question, but is there any value to having a hex between your defensive lines, rather than just a carpet of forts?

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/3/2012 3:43:23 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Probably a daft question, but is there any value to having a hex between your defensive lines, rather than just a carpet of forts?


I do not beleive so, because once the first belt has a few holes the hole line would have to be given up.

The solid line works good because it forses the attacker to clear a solid path through, which gives diggers more time in back to get levels up to 2.

My CV are still high enough so that if a single hex is cleared in front, one stack of Russian units can't take the 2nd row. So even if he clears an odd hex here an there along line, he is forsed to clear every front line hex. At least 4 wide to move to the next row. This takes atleast 2 turns generaly 3 or 4 because he is only winning 60% ish of battles. This also gives me time to rush high CV units to flanks again resticking his advance.

I still can put in 2 high cv units an block a hex without forts as long as he is only attacking from 2 hexes.

So I can move to a small bulge stop the advance again forsing him to hit another part of the line or widen the bulge.

This last turn is the first time he has stepped up tempo. The only time he will be able to take hexes faster then I can dig is during blizzard turns. So this offensive is the first chance he has to truly break through fort belt. Last winter my forses could easly handle his offensive, this will be a different story. Thats why I am building a 1944 summer line. I do not expect to be able to hold this line forever, just 14 to 16 turns.

Pelton

< Message edited by Pelton -- 1/3/2012 3:47:42 PM >


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15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 3:05:21 AM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 132 93 turns to go.

Turn 3 of the 1944 Blizzard Offensive continues with hvy fighting.

Trend in German OOB: -28,000

SHC—-Attacks———Wins—-Losses
———-—68—————35———33—

GHC—-Counter Attacks———Wins—-Losses—–-
——————03-———————03———0——–—-


This turn Kamil attacked 29 times getting 12 retreats and 17 holds. Good morale building turn for me.

A good turn for the Germans over all.

So far the lose in the OOB is 9,300 per turn with 93 turns left in game that would put my OOB at 2,964,000.








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GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 3:08:01 AM   
Pelton

 

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Kamils last 7 attacks were all held results.

German losses were about 1600 to 19500 russian loses.

12 to 1 ratio. Not sure what that was all about, but I will take it.

Pelton




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GHC
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15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 2:24:34 PM   
Seminole


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German losses were about 1600 to 19500 russian loses.
12 to 1 ratio. Not sure what that was all about, but I will take it.

OMG!
Obviously the game is completely broken!
This is a flying pig result and shows that the devs are all closet nazi sympathizers!
Or somefink.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 2:58:37 PM   
Kamil

 

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quote:

Seminole


German losses were about 1600 to 19500 russian loses.
12 to 1 ratio. Not sure what that was all about, but I will take it.

OMG!
Obviously the game is completely broken!
This is a flying pig result and shows that the devs are all closet nazi sympathizers!
Or somefink.



In most of the cases I was attacking level 3 forts with only slight advantage in CV (sometimes with inferior CV) so if there is held such casualties can be expected, northing extraordinary about it.

Saying "Not sure what that was all about, but I will take it" Pelton was referring to my tactics not to "battle engine", which I have to say favours Soviet due to their advantage in high ROF elements.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 3:27:53 PM   
Seminole


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Wait, do you mean that individual battle results are derived from a multitude of varying factors, and can't simply be cross referenced with an annual average of historical casualties to determine the merit of the game engine?


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 6:22:46 PM   
Kamil

 

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Yes.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 6:32:53 PM   
Q-Ball


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The fort belts aren't gamey; they are necessary.

It's interesting how critical Romania is in the late game. Everyone is going for a Romanian take-out, and I can see why. It complicates the German defenses for sure.

Pelton, make sure you are prepared for Romanian surrender when the time comes. That means have a German unit in the city of Arad for starters, and probably a line of guys to protect the rail line. Loss of the Romanian city of Arad can trigger Hungarian surrender, which is a real disaster, so the Germans really have to build a line in the mountains of Romania.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 6:49:25 PM   
Flaviusx


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The fort belts offset the too high retreat losses. It's a very rough and ready way to even things out a bit.

That said, I'm annoyed that this fort belt solution in practical terms is only available to the Axis. The Soviets can't swing it due to AP limitations.

If we ever get around to adjusting the combat engine to bring retreat losses under control, fort mechanics may also need a second look, or we risk going back to pre 1.05 maginot line in the east.

Kamil, how many artillery divisions have you got? Looking at your combats, it seems you're kind of light on guns in a lot of them. I would be making fewer attacks with more guns concentrated on them and try to trash forts on a concentrated sector of the front as rapidly as possible. Literally pile on 30 odd artillery divisions in the Ukraine, and add 3 or more per attack. If you can blow up 10 odd forts a turn, the Axis will have a tough time maintaining the integrity of the fort belt. That's 40 APs right there, not including expenses involved in building FRs in hexes that will need to be abandoned when a line becomes untenable due attacks nearby.

< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 1/4/2012 7:00:33 PM >


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 7:20:50 PM   
gingerbread


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I won't call it gaming, but it makes me more than a little uneasy when a tactic is based on placing an unfillable demand on a limited synthetic resource (Admin points).

Maybe forts should prevent decay in adjacent hexes - they do allow level 3, so they already have a ranged effect.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 7:35:29 PM   
Kamil

 

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quote:

Flaviusx


Kamil, how many artillery divisions have you got? Looking at your combats, it seems you're kind of light on guns in a lot of them. I would be making fewer attacks with more guns concentrated on them and try to trash forts on a concentrated sector of the front as rapidly as possible. Literally pile on 30 odd artillery divisions in the Ukraine, and add 3 or more per attack. If you can blow up 10 odd forts a turn, the Axis will have a tough time maintaining the integrity of the fort belt. That's 40 APs right there, not including expenses involved in building FRs in hexes that will need to be abandoned when a line becomes untenable due attacks nearby.



Not to many art divisions. I have to confess I considered them not really useful so I focused all my AP on creating hordes of corps and now I am changing my C&C.

One thing makes me wonder - each corps have 1 sap regiment, should I add one more at expense of tanks?

At the moment only problem is AP. I have 3M manpower and 800k armament in pool. (not to mention few thousands of tanks)

< Message edited by Kamil -- 1/4/2012 7:37:57 PM >

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 7:39:31 PM   
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1 sapper regiment per corps (any type) is my standard and ought to be enough to get good engineering bonuses. But on top of that your armies should have some sapper SUs, too. 1-2 per army. (And 1 tank regiment and 3-4 artillery SUs. That's a nice mix.)

Most Soviet players imo seriously underestimate the power of artillery divisions and don't build enough of them. (And wait too long to build them, considering they become available as of Oct of 42.) Artillery is the God of War, my friends. It is to the Red Army what the panzer divisions are to the Germans.

I try to follow the historical OB here: roughly two dozen tube artillery divisions, and 6 rocket. If armament points and APs allow, I'd consider building even more than that.


< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 1/4/2012 7:41:52 PM >


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 10:12:33 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kamil

quote:

Flaviusx


Kamil, how many artillery divisions have you got? Looking at your combats, it seems you're kind of light on guns in a lot of them. I would be making fewer attacks with more guns concentrated on them and try to trash forts on a concentrated sector of the front as rapidly as possible. Literally pile on 30 odd artillery divisions in the Ukraine, and add 3 or more per attack. If you can blow up 10 odd forts a turn, the Axis will have a tough time maintaining the integrity of the fort belt. That's 40 APs right there, not including expenses involved in building FRs in hexes that will need to be abandoned when a line becomes untenable due attacks nearby.



Not to many art divisions. I have to confess I considered them not really useful so I focused all my AP on creating hordes of corps and now I am changing my C&C.

One thing makes me wonder - each corps have 1 sap regiment, should I add one more at expense of tanks?

At the moment only problem is AP. I have 3M manpower and 800k armament in pool. (not to mention few thousands of tanks)


Missing the 88 armaments points does not seem to be hurting your forses so far. With basicly a static front fromt March 1942 to December 1943 the production numbers hvly favor the Red army doing little. It would have greatly helped me if I had been able to attack during 42, that would have sapped your armaments.

But I lost 20 German divisions to incirclement during Blizzard.

Only TDV beat your blizzard 30+ German divisions lost.

This makes the first 35 turns critical for the next 190 as far as German side goes under current rule set. Its just not possible to recover from a bad 41 summer or a bad blizzard. If your unable to atleast inflict 3 million loses during 42 your not going to stand a chance come 1944.

Counter attacking from 1943 to 1945 only increases German loses and the breaking of the army. The German player is basicly forsed to be completely static. Even when you win the loses generally are 1 to 1.5, retreat losses seem low for russian side. They lose a lower % of troops. Even route % is same as German loses when they win.

The hole combat ratio from 43 on needs to be looked at, historicaly the ratio was any wheres from 3 to 1 to 6 to 1.

Loses when we were basicly static were 2.5 to 1( 3 battles a turn). This will greatly change as ratio of battles during this 10 turn trend will be lower then that. Got 7 more turns before we will know for sure.

If the game engine was some wheres near historical, forts could be thrown out completely. Game would be 100% better with out them, but the engine is lacking so forts are a bandade on a knife wound.

Russian corps in general are greatly over powered. A russian corps was equal to a German infantry division. This is just not the case in game, by 43 because of NM beat down German cv's are at 5 or 6. Russian "corps are at 8-12. Same for tank corps. Most German tank divisions could easly take out any 3 russian tank corps during 43 and early 44.

The beating down of German morale levels for no reason is one thing of many unbalancing game.

We were static for 18 months and German morale was forsed lower and russian morale lifted up, for no reason other then a random number coded into game engine.

Game is 100% better then before 1v1=2v1, but still needs some help.

I plan on finnishing this one for the simple fact no one has yet and less then 10 will have withen a few months. Looks like 2 other games mybe 3 will go the full distance.

Pelton

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 10:15:06 PM   
Pelton

 

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Red army only lost 6 million to date far fewer then the 2 other games on going. Not sure the end time will be much different at this point. Other two guys did much better them me, but because counter attacking is pointless I think that caused there OOB's to crash quickly.

Pelton

_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 10:45:55 PM   
Seminole


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quote:

We were static for 18 months and German morale was forsed lower and russian morale lifted up, for no reason other then a random number coded into game engine.


The change in national morale actually abstracts the growing understanding among Germans that Germany was again trapped in a no-win, two front war.  You're dismissing the context of the War in the East.
The losses in Africa, invasion of Italy, and beginning of the bombing of the German homeland, none of these served to raise German morale.  In '43 the Americans were firebombing Hamburg.

quote:

The impact of bombing on German morale was significant according to Professor John Buckley. Around a third of the urban population under threat of bombing had no protection at all. Some of the major cities saw 55-60 percent of dwellings destroyed. Mass evacuations were a partial answer for six million civilians, but this had a severe impact on morale as German families were split up to live in difficult conditions. By 1944 absenteeism rates of 20-25 percent were not unusual and in post-war analysis 91 percent of civilians stated bombing was the most difficult hardship to endure and was the key factor in the collapse of their own morale.[/link] The United States Strategic Bombing Survey concluded that the bombing was not stiffening morale but seriously depressing it; fatalism, apathy, defeatism were apparent in bombed areas. The Luftwaffe was blamed for not warding off the attacks and confidence in the Nazi regime fell by 14 percent. Some 75 percent of Germans believed the war was lost in the spring of 1944, owing to the intensity of the bombing.
- der wiki

< Message edited by Seminole -- 1/4/2012 10:46:21 PM >

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 11:02:27 PM   
Baelfiin

 

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Apples and oranges with that wiki link

Regardless of what the people at home were feeling, the actual combat troops were ever more determined to fight as hard as possible, especially in the east according to von Luck, Guderian and Mellenthin.

National morale on the counter itself does not really mean national morale of the nation. I would think of it more as Proficiency, experience, cohesion or something along those lines.

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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 11:06:48 PM   
Pelton

 

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Turn 133 92 turns to go.

Turn 4 of the 1944 Blizzard Offensive continues with hvy fighting.

Trend in OOB: -88,000

AVG Per turn: -22,000 = 1,870,000 / 1,950,000 by end of game at current rates.


——SHC—-Attacks———Wins—-Losses
Total———-—93—————52———41—
This Turn——–——————17———8

GHC—-Counter Attacks———Wins—-Losses—–-
——————03-———————03———0——–—-
This turn——————————————————





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GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 11:07:32 PM   
Pelton

 

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2




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GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


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RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 11:18:44 PM   
Pelton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

quote:

We were static for 18 months and German morale was forsed lower and russian morale lifted up, for no reason other then a random number coded into game engine.


The change in national morale actually abstracts the growing understanding among Germans that Germany was again trapped in a no-win, two front war.  You're dismissing the context of the War in the East.
The losses in Africa, invasion of Italy, and beginning of the bombing of the German homeland, none of these served to raise German morale.  In '43 the Americans were firebombing Hamburg.

quote:

The impact of bombing on German morale was significant according to Professor John Buckley. Around a third of the urban population under threat of bombing had no protection at all. Some of the major cities saw 55-60 percent of dwellings destroyed. Mass evacuations were a partial answer for six million civilians, but this had a severe impact on morale as German families were split up to live in difficult conditions. By 1944 absenteeism rates of 20-25 percent were not unusual and in post-war analysis 91 percent of civilians stated bombing was the most difficult hardship to endure and was the key factor in the collapse of their own morale.[/link] The United States Strategic Bombing Survey concluded that the bombing was not stiffening morale but seriously depressing it; fatalism, apathy, defeatism were apparent in bombed areas. The Luftwaffe was blamed for not warding off the attacks and confidence in the Nazi regime fell by 14 percent. Some 75 percent of Germans believed the war was lost in the spring of 1944, owing to the intensity of the bombing.
- der wiki


That is simply an option of your own nothing more.

Personal accounts of soldiers and officers were different then your option, lets stick to history and not personal strawmen.

German troops did not surrender in mass until early 45. So the strawmen of dropping German morale is just more strawmen based on nothing but myth's which is circular reasoning. Which we see far far to much when we are tring to talk about issue based on fact or math.

The English poeple's morale went up when they were bombed. So your strawman of sinking morale is just that another strawman, come back to the real world. Someone already burn your strawman.
The allied bombing did nothing to slow down German production that strawman has alrdy been disspelled by facts on the ground.

If the German player is doing far better then historical there is no reason based on facts to forse german morale down. Its just some random # the dev's put in code.

Pelton



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7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 296
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 11:21:46 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Apples and oranges with that wiki link

Regardless of what the people at home were feeling, the actual combat troops were ever more determined to fight as hard as possible, especially in the east according to von Luck, Guderian and Mellenthin.

National morale on the counter itself does not really mean national morale of the nation. I would think of it more as Proficiency, experience, cohesion or something along those lines.



The game engine over all is far far to dependent on a random NM #. If you have ever served in war the only thing you care about are the guys in your unit.

The CV in general is to hung up on NM. I would have to find the posts, but I beleive 1/3 of the formula for cv is based on morale.

Flaviusx I am sure can answer this with out me wasting 3 hrs to find out what Hapless posted or pmed me.

Pelton

< Message edited by Pelton -- 1/4/2012 11:23:53 PM >


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 297
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/4/2012 11:25:41 PM   
Pelton

 

Posts: 6041
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

I won't call it gaming, but it makes me more than a little uneasy when a tactic is based on placing an unfillable demand on a limited synthetic resource (Admin points).

Maybe forts should prevent decay in adjacent hexes - they do allow level 3, so they already have a ranged effect.



If not for forts game would alrdy be over.

That does not say much for game engine in general or for the game being based on history.


_____________________________

GHC
22 - 4 - 8

15 games ended in 41 (15-0-0)
7 games ended in 42 (5-0-2)
8 games ended in 43 (2-3-3)
4 games ended in 44 (0-1-3)


General Cheesefinder of WitW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiSQ36zfWk

(in reply to gingerbread)
Post #: 298
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/5/2012 2:22:43 AM   
Baelfiin

 

Posts: 1250
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelfiin

Apples and oranges with that wiki link

Regardless of what the people at home were feeling, the actual combat troops were ever more determined to fight as hard as possible, especially in the east according to von Luck, Guderian and Mellenthin.

National morale on the counter itself does not really mean national morale of the nation. I would think of it more as Proficiency, experience, cohesion or something along those lines.



The game engine over all is far far to dependent on a random NM #. If you have ever served in war the only thing you care about are the guys in your unit.

The CV in general is to hung up on NM. I would have to find the posts, but I beleive 1/3 of the formula for cv is based on morale.

Flaviusx I am sure can answer this with out me wasting 3 hrs to find out what Hapless posted or pmed me.

Pelton

You lost me here pelton

_____________________________

"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
WITE-Beta
WITW-Alpha

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 299
RE: Pelton vs Kamil - 1/5/2012 2:38:14 AM   
Seminole


Posts: 493
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline
quote:

German troops did not surrender in mass until early 45.


So, do you think their morale went down over time as they it became obvious Hitler had bitten off more than he can chew, or they just woke up in Jan. '45 and *poof* no more morale?

quote:

If the German player is doing far better then historical there is no reason based on facts to forse german morale down.


Again you're dropping the context of the War in the East.
Germany was getting kicked out of Africa.  Fact.  Mass surrender.  Fact.
Kicked out of Sicily.  Fact.  Italy folded.  Fact.  And the fatherland was being turned into rubble.  Fact.
German production did increase when Speer took command, but was 1/3rd less than expected due to allied bombing.  Hitler waited way too long to put his economy into full war mobilization.  He was running single production shifts at his armament factories until Speer took over.
Nearly half a million were rendered homeless in Berlin alone by the bombing.  Somewhere over 7 million overall.

quote:

The English poeple's morale went up when they were bombed.


Because they won.  The Luftwaffe gave up the Blitz.  Over the 8 months the raids actually tapered off.  Not the case for Germany in '43, '44, and '45 as the bombing campaign on Germany intensified and it became obvious to everyone but the brainwashed Hitler fanatics that Germany was doomed to lose.  Again.
No matter your metric (sorties, bombers, tons delivered) comparing the relatively sparse and intermittent raids by German light bombers to the steadily increasing war from the air waged on Germany by the Allies is a joke.

quote:

National morale on the counter itself does not really mean national morale of the nation. I would think of it more as Proficiency, experience, cohesion or something along those lines.


National morale also reflects the morale of the replacements.  The German army in the summer of '41 was at its pinnacle in proficiency, etc.  Historically it went downhill, while the Red Army, recovering experience lost to the purges, and united in patriotism against the barbarity of Nazi aggression and occupation, improved from its sorry state in '41.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 300
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