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Okay. I took the plunge.

 
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Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/21/2011 6:03:07 PM   
Major SNAFU


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/3/2005
Status: offline 		Now to battle!

Any suggestions from the vet as to what battles to try first, etc.?


_____________________________

"Popular Opinion? What I suggest you do with 'Popular Opinion' is biologically impossible and morally questionable." - T. Bartlet Rile, Prof. Irish History in Frank Delany's "Ireland: A Novel."
Post #: 1
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/21/2011 6:22:28 PM   
johndoesecond

 

Posts: 872
Joined: 8/3/2010
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Major SNAFU

Now to battle!

Any suggestions from the vet as to what battles to try first, etc.?



You could follow the historical sequence. It is enjoyable and gives you a gradual insight into the whole campaign and its geography.

(in reply to Major SNAFU)
Post #: 2
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/21/2011 6:48:53 PM   
springel

 

Posts: 76
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: Groningen, the Netherlands
Status: online 		Is there a chronological list of the scenarios?

(in reply to johndoesecond)
Post #: 3
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/21/2011 9:38:32 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		Look in the manual pp199, it shows the location and 'group' (by date) of each of the scenarios.

The blue ones all start on the Morning of Dec 16th, and happen simultaneously - following one of these with a yellow will show how the initial delays allowed a strong German force to be countered, slowed, blocked and halted, and finally the Red ones show later phases of the battle with the Allied counter-attacks. (Apart from some hypotheticals).

I started with the attack of the 352VGD and 15th FJ on the southern shoulder, but that is a biggish scenario with lots of weak/poor infantry attacking a mixed mechanised/infantry defence with plenty of defending artillery and tight attack schedules.

(in reply to springel)
Post #: 4
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/21/2011 9:53:25 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		Just a suggestion, but after planning all your opening movements, and any command reassignments, make a save of the situation before starting the timer. You can use this save, rather than the blank-sheet as a basis for retries, or alternative strategies if it will save time... sometimes very ocassionally the replan is so large that it affects everyone though ;)

I use 'ScnName-Date-D010000' to distinguish this plan from any others I might have saved into my folder - I might add a note (brief) to the end of the name to indicate any unusual planning options/favour us/them etc, but only if out of the ordinary.

FWIW, I always play with painful delays, and think that the system works best when the OODA loop is long - your plan needs simplicity and robustness - too much finesse and you'll miss more often than you hit. You also don't want to wait too long before adapting a plan that is 'dead'.

Keep big reserves - especially of artillery ammunition... at the right moment fresh troops can be decisive, and troops in contact can have difficulty recovering fatigue or morale, and in replenishing ammunition. Do use your reserve, but use the tired troops to immediately take their place - the difference between their sorry state now, and how they'll be after a few hours (or days) rest, and a chance to get a full resupply or two is enormous...

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 5
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/21/2011 10:21:31 PM   
Ossian


Posts: 99
Joined: 7/7/2005
Status: offline 		Hi Major SNAFU, it's Lets_all_fight here with a different name. Glad you went for it! I've always liked Elsenborn Ridge and have probably played it more than anything else, but playing chronologically is certainly a good and fun way to go.

_____________________________

Pure honking, big man.

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 6
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/21/2011 10:59:16 PM   
Major SNAFU


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ossian

Hi Major SNAFU, it's Lets_all_fight here with a different name. Glad you went for it! I've always liked Elsenborn Ridge and have probably played it more than anything else, but playing chronologically is certainly a good and fun way to go.


Hey Ossian,

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply to my questions. SO you are on Subsim as well? I haven't been there is a while after I burned out on SH II, III, IV and SUb Command and Dangerous Waters. I go by Sgian Dubh over there.

_____________________________

"Popular Opinion? What I suggest you do with 'Popular Opinion' is biologically impossible and morally questionable." - T. Bartlet Rile, Prof. Irish History in Frank Delany's "Ireland: A Novel."

(in reply to Ossian)
Post #: 7
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/22/2011 12:43:30 AM   
Major SNAFU


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ossian

Hi Major SNAFU, it's Lets_all_fight here with a different name. Glad you went for it! I've always liked Elsenborn Ridge and have probably played it more than anything else, but playing chronologically is certainly a good and fun way to go.


Blasted double post....



< Message edited by Major SNAFU -- 6/22/2011 12:45:00 AM >

_____________________________

"Popular Opinion? What I suggest you do with 'Popular Opinion' is biologically impossible and morally questionable." - T. Bartlet Rile, Prof. Irish History in Frank Delany's "Ireland: A Novel."

(in reply to Ossian)
Post #: 8
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/22/2011 12:47:22 AM   
Major SNAFU


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lieste

Just a suggestion, but after planning all your opening movements, and any command reassignments, make a save of the situation before starting the timer. You can use this save, rather than the blank-sheet as a basis for retries, or alternative strategies if it will save time... sometimes very ocassionally the replan is so large that it affects everyone though ;)

I use 'ScnName-Date-D010000' to distinguish this plan from any others I might have saved into my folder - I might add a note (brief) to the end of the name to indicate any unusual planning options/favour us/them etc, but only if out of the ordinary.

FWIW, I always play with painful delays, and think that the system works best when the OODA loop is long - your plan needs simplicity and robustness - too much finesse and you'll miss more often than you hit. You also don't want to wait too long before adapting a plan that is 'dead'.

Keep big reserves - especially of artillery ammunition... at the right moment fresh troops can be decisive, and troops in contact can have difficulty recovering fatigue or morale, and in replenishing ammunition. Do use your reserve, but use the tired troops to immediately take their place - the difference between their sorry state now, and how they'll be after a few hours (or days) rest, and a chance to get a full resupply or two is enormous...


Thanks for the tips.

I hadn't realized there are command reassignments possible. This sound very intriguing. I already had the idea of saving an initial set up. Played enough WiTP-AE to know the value of that...

I have already seen that St. Vith plays out much more differently with the whole, up to date game than it did with the demo.

Thanks,


_____________________________

"Popular Opinion? What I suggest you do with 'Popular Opinion' is biologically impossible and morally questionable." - T. Bartlet Rile, Prof. Irish History in Frank Delany's "Ireland: A Novel."

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 9
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/22/2011 2:08:05 AM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		If you CTRL-Click on multiple units you can temporarily attach any group together for an ad-hoc player TF or KG - they need to be given a new task to confirm this planned arrangement. Ensure that unwanted subordinates are also given defend in situ/move orders or likewise combined into TF with other superiors.

You really need to play about a bit to get the hang of what does and doesn't work, but knowing it exists is probably helpful :)
You can switch between the Official OOB, the "OB current OP Plan Structure" assignments which includes AI cross attachments etc, and OB Player Structure - (ie those units operating under direct orders).

When traversing the Organic OOB, the companies of I/77th Regt, will always be found 'under' I/77 HQ, no matter where on the battlefield or who is currently giving them orders.
If 1.77 and 3.77, plus the mortars and IG of 4.77 are still under command, then they will also be found under I/77 in the other modes, but the 2.77 will now be under the HQ providing direct control of it - I may have attached it to the 77th Rgt HQ as Rgt reserve/protection coy, or added it to II/77 to back-up the planned main effort by that Bn on the strongpoint.

In each case, I would select the receiving HQ (say II/77) and the 2.77 grenadier coy. Give them a common attack order, with a route to the FUP that can safely be reached by both units - sometimes it is better to move the company separately and then give it attachment/orders once it is closing on the receiving HQ. Definitely give an explicit FUP and Attack objective unless you like the unexpected, or possibly are using a high level formation attack. If losing the 2.77 will materially affect the deployment of I/77 then also re-designate it's orders as soon as you retask 2.77

You can attach anything, anywhere, but be careful of joining two units of equal size (or larger units into small ones - which might not work as expected, but there are command penalties listed for it), or directly supporting line units with lots of heavy support. Also be aware that the supply system still links each unit to it's own organic supply chain, so try to keep elements of the same organic formations nearby geographically.

Also note that German doctrine called for PzJg and Pz assets to be concentrated, rather than dispersed as intimate support - you may disagree of course.

(in reply to Major SNAFU)
Post #: 10
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/22/2011 3:10:09 AM   
Major SNAFU


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/3/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks.

I was confused the first time I read it through because I was confusing II/77th with 2/77th.

What is the standard way to write 2/77th of the I/77th as opposed to the 2/77th of the II/77th? Is there a more concise method?

_____________________________

"Popular Opinion? What I suggest you do with 'Popular Opinion' is biologically impossible and morally questionable." - T. Bartlet Rile, Prof. Irish History in Frank Delany's "Ireland: A Novel."

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 11
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/22/2011 3:41:30 AM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		2nd Company 77th Regt - I write as 2.77, usually 1.77 to 4.77 would be part of I Bn 77 Rgt.
II Bn 77th Regt - I would write as II/77, and I'd expect it to contain 5.77 to 8.77:

77th Gren Rgt
77th Gren Rgt Column
13.77 (Support Coy of 77th Rgt - a hang-over from the 3 Bn Rgt of 1940/41, where 13 was the next free number) - maybe this differed between different units - where I have no better info I just run with this...)
I/77 Bn HQ
I/77 Light Column
1.I/77 or 1.77 Gren Coy
2.I/77 or 2.77 Gren Coy
3.I/77 or 3.77 Gren Coy
4.I/77 or 4.77 Heavy Coy (usually 8cm GrW and 7.5cm leIG platoons, plus sometimes HMG platoon(s), but late war establishments were thinner)
II/77 Bn HQ
II/77 Light Column
5.II/77 or 5.77 Gren Coy
6.II/77 or 6.77 Gren Coy
7.II/77 or 7.77 Gren Coy
8.II/77 or 8.77 Heavy Coy

This is partly just my notation for use on the BfTB counters, where space and legal characters are both limited...

Some earlier Rgt would have had more than 4 companies in the Bn - the most I've seen is 5 combat companies, and late war in the Frie Gliderung, there is also a formal supply company, and I'm unsure what number (if any) that would receive - it could be only noted as the Supply Kp I/77, or it may take a number, thus shifting the other companies 'up'.



< Message edited by Lieste -- 6/22/2011 3:47:22 AM >

(in reply to Major SNAFU)
Post #: 12
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/22/2011 4:35:33 AM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		US designations tend to be similar to this, where the letter designations are in the US phonetic alphabet (DOG, EASY, FOX etc)

110 Rgt
110 Supply Company
110 Recon Company
110 Cannon Company
1/110 Bn HQ
A 110 Rifle Coy
B 110 Rifle Coy
C 110 Rifle Coy
D 110 Support Coy?
2/110
E 110
F 110
G 110
H 110
3/110
I 110
K 110
L 110
M 110

A platoon break-down could be 1/I 110 for 1st Plt, I Coy, 110 Rgt, but I'm not sure about the US usage of . / or other separators, and there may be something specific.

British usage is I think different again, but mostly in detail, not how the system is setup.

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 13
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/22/2011 7:35:06 PM   
Ossian


Posts: 99
Joined: 7/7/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Major SNAFU


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ossian

Hi Major SNAFU, it's Lets_all_fight here with a different name. Glad you went for it! I've always liked Elsenborn Ridge and have probably played it more than anything else, but playing chronologically is certainly a good and fun way to go.


Hey Ossian,

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply to my questions. SO you are on Subsim as well? I haven't been there is a while after I burned out on SH II, III, IV and SUb Command and Dangerous Waters. I go by Sgian Dubh over there.


I think I've seen the name. Yeah, I mainly just bum around there now as I haven't played any subsims for a long while. I was trying to get some of the guys there interested in WiTP but my AAR there is on gardening leave looks like.


_____________________________

Pure honking, big man.

(in reply to Major SNAFU)
Post #: 14
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/23/2011 5:46:25 PM   
Major SNAFU


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/3/2005
Status: offline 		Lieste,

Thanks for the responses.

_____________________________

"Popular Opinion? What I suggest you do with 'Popular Opinion' is biologically impossible and morally questionable." - T. Bartlet Rile, Prof. Irish History in Frank Delany's "Ireland: A Novel."

(in reply to Ossian)
Post #: 15
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/24/2011 12:11:16 PM   
Nikolaj


Posts: 140
Joined: 5/1/2010
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Major SNAFU

Now to battle!

Any suggestions from the vet as to what battles to try first, etc.?



I'd like to add a recommendation for Elsenborn Ridge, although I find that scenario pretty hard, at least when playing the Germans. Peiper's Race to the Meuse is another really good scenario, in my opinion.

If you'd like to ease into the game a bit, I'd suggest playing one of the smaller scenarios, though. Manhay Crossroads, Hell on Wheels Counterattack, Höfen Ho-down and Skorzeny's Bid for Glory are all relatively small scenarios, with the last one being the smallest (and shortest).

(in reply to Major SNAFU)
Post #: 16
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/24/2011 10:12:58 PM   
Major SNAFU


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/3/2005
Status: offline 		I am currently re-playing (again and again) St Vith as I am amazed at how complex this is.  I am reading my way throught he manual and keep trying new things.

I am not having much success yet with a combined operation of amor and mech infantry.  I followed the manual, but the coordination seems not so much, but I probably have a setting wrong somewhere.


_____________________________

"Popular Opinion? What I suggest you do with 'Popular Opinion' is biologically impossible and morally questionable." - T. Bartlet Rile, Prof. Irish History in Frank Delany's "Ireland: A Novel."

(in reply to Nikolaj)
Post #: 17
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/24/2011 10:52:43 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		Tanks tend to deploy and halt a bit earlier than infantry - to keep them moving to close decisively you need to set aggressiveness to med or low. Infantry is a bit brittle at low aggression as it doesn't deploy into cover - so for mixed mode, I tend to use medium aggro.
For purely infantry attacks though, I set aggression to high, to get them deployed and digging in as soon as they can see threats, and maybe pop fire rate to low to preserve ammunition. Weather the immediate defensive fires, including artillery and then hit him with reserves in medium or low mode once the firestorm is done...
Retreat in place or even rout in place may happen, but isn't a severe risk if the affected units are far from the enemy position(s) and they aren't actually the assault troops but the SBF group.

I retain my artillery for FPF on my deployed troops if he launches counter attacks against them (particularly armour if they lack a competent AT strength) and to dislodge/neutralise the position once the reserve unit is committed.

Sounds daft, but casualties are usually highest in the first few minutes, and require huge concentrations of defending firepower for little effect, and the position is carried by the second wave 'easily' with surrenders common. After 3-5 days of this, I may have 50% of my infantry companies still at 80% strength (first wave) and the remainder 'untouched', and have pushed 10km or more through stiff defences. Probably won't work if he has too much armour, or enough artillery to flatten the attack and keep a sizeable reserve though, but it's better than being caught by all that while moving in the open. Also try to cut his supply routes... he has to then either attack (where your artillery can fire more productively than against trenches) or abandon the position (and again, make him pay while he is moving). The German infantry is usually pretty tough though, because it has poor numbers/training/firepower/mobility/supply compared to the US.


(in reply to Major SNAFU)
Post #: 18
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/25/2011 6:47:45 PM   
Nikolaj


Posts: 140
Joined: 5/1/2010
From: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: offline 		I never even considered that setting your guys on a less aggressive stance would cause them to get closer to the enemy. It sounds like a really good tip, though, so I'll try it out as soon as I have time to get back into the game. Thanks.

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 19
RE: Okay. I took the plunge. - 6/25/2011 7:20:06 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline 		It does seem back-to-front to me :)


(in reply to Nikolaj)
Post #: 20
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