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Is there interest in fictional scenarios

 
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Is there interest in fictional scenarios - 6/21/2011 4:26:22 PM   
Major SNAFU


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Joined: 11/3/2005
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Hi all,

I have read in a number of posts that there is frustration on building scenarios because of a lack of detail, but what about plausible, fictional scenarios and what if scenarios?

I haven't bought the game yet, but it seems like this would be a great engine to explore things like this with - or is the interest not there?

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Post #: 1
RE: Is there interest in fictional scenarios - 6/21/2011 9:25:09 PM   
Lieste

 

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Joined: 11/1/2008
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I actually don't regularly play the stock 'historicals' - not necessarily because they don't interest me, but because I am exploring the options in the Estab editor and Scn & Map editors and this means that most of my play is on smaller custom scenarios. These are usually entirely abstract (Pz Rgt hitting UK Arm'd Bde or Tank Bde, vs the same locations with a US Tank Rgt), or experimental - looking at the influence of smaller distributed supply columns (in Bn), rather than a monolithic Rgt Base, looking at the effects of reducing visibility ranges/firing probability and increasing firing rate or accuracy.

Sometimes I build the more interesting experiments into a Division sized scenario - my current test is an approximation of the 26th VGD hitting the 110/28 with it's supports. I haven't added the massed VAK and the Panzer Korps, nor the US reinforcements, just stuff "on map" at start with an optional VWRgt, and various experiments with supply (massive reductions, but added flexibility), firepower (more at short ranges, but less often), terrain (more protection vs indirect fires, less protection vs LOS fires (but the requirements for LOS are more extreme, a lot more obscuration by most terrain types against deployed forces etc).

I've played all the released scenarios made by other players - some like Chief Rudiger's Afwaterings Scenario have been highly modified and used as a test platform for smaller scale actions (Bn/Rgt/Bde forces at platoon level) - the results of which inform some of the changes I'm making to my scenario with Divisional forces at Company Scale.

(in reply to Major SNAFU)
Post #: 2
RE: Is there interest in fictional scenarios - 6/21/2011 9:47:22 PM   
phoenix

 

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Can you upload and share any of these experiments, Lieste? I'm sure there's more than me would love to try them.

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 3
RE: Is there interest in fictional scenarios - 6/21/2011 10:04:39 PM   
Lieste

 

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I do plan to. Just looking to see how the changes (particularly to rout behaviour) alter the play.
I've got the 26th one working pretty well - despite a 'current test' of 50% front-line ammo, 16%Bn, 7% Rgt, 1% Div, 1% Army, 50% SEP.

Tough, as you have to balance: operations against a partially mechanised infantry/armour force dug-in in villages
with: keeping casualties down, and not blowing all the ammunition in the supply chain away on D1

The Overall Scenario balance/victory conditions aren't well thought out sometimes - I've just thrown something that 'works for me' onto a test of a few units (mostly because you can't have nothing). My focus has so far been more on 'ant view' combat/rout/supply mechanics, and subverting bits I wasn't enthralled by

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RE: Is there interest in fictional scenarios - 6/21/2011 10:57:15 PM   
Major SNAFU


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How many user-made scenarios are there.  I found two so far.  I'm a collector, I can't help myself.  I downloaded before I made the decision to purchase the game.

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"Popular Opinion? What I suggest you do with 'Popular Opinion' is biologically impossible and morally questionable." -

"One ping to find them all,
One ping to link them;
One ping to promote them all,
and in the darkness sink them"

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 5
RE: Is there interest in fictional scenarios - 6/21/2011 11:07:12 PM   
Lieste

 

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There are a few more (mostly WIP) in the scn and mods forum.

A fair bit of replayability within one scenario as well, particularly if there are multiple options for reinforcements or supply, or if resources prevent taking all available options on day 1.

< Message edited by Lieste -- 6/21/2011 11:10:21 PM >

(in reply to Major SNAFU)
Post #: 6
RE: Is there interest in fictional scenarios - 6/22/2011 12:52:31 AM   
gabeeg


Posts: 244
Joined: 11/18/2009
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YES! I love historical...but ahistorical is also fun as it is much more of a surprise. The more scenarios the better.

Of the player submitted scenarios, I have these so far:

Epsom
Epsom Phase 4
Merdjayoun
St. Lo
The Woensdrecht Isthmus

...If there are more I would like to know. By the way, so far I have found all the player submitted scenarios to be of good quality and very enjoyable.

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 7
RE: Is there interest in fictional scenarios - 6/22/2011 2:14:43 AM   
Lieste

 

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I don't have one of the Epsoms - a corrupted download, but there is also an early days version of Afwaterings Canal in a thread not far from here. Not sure if Chief is still working on the original one, but I am using the map and general 'situation' as a sandbox for testing my platoon Estab variant.

I hope to push 2-3 fun-but-made-up test cases/scenarios once I've seen how they play under the new patch. I've fiddled with sooo very many bits that some might need toning down once the underlying issues have been adjusted. Some other areas may need (IMO, and IMEstab) need further emphasising.

Tank clash - testing revised armour values, revised terrain values and the effect of crew values.
Bigger tank clash - Arm'd Bde vs Pz Rgt, with and without Gren (mot) Rgt
Longer version of Merdjayoun with campaign dates & thus a long dwell between phase 1 (capture of Merdjayoun et al and exit of forces North West) and phase 2 (loss of Merdjayoun and stabilisation of front at south). Huge exit points contribution to victory total forces the allied player to be very careful of holding too much back, but dwell allows it to stay on-map for a bit longer than the original attack took if things are taking too long.
Attack of 26th VGD into 110/28 - grew out of a test case for revised NW units and Bn Supply with tolerably realistic densities and OB. No overwhelming Pz movements through the captured positions, no huge commitment of forces into the rear areas, so non-historical but pretty 'fun' in a stretched to breaking point way :) - very low supply situation for the 26th - only "basic load" for the Division, no stockpiles. Victory requires exiting a large fraction of the force at Bastogne or eliminating the 110th within 5 days. Not tried it as the Allies at all though - that might be fun to try one day :)
Platoon Based version of Afwaterings - with different OOBs during building/testing of units - currently one 1944 Grenadier Bn, holding vs two British Inf Bn (less armour supports, but with supports across the canal by fires).

In each case it is highly apparent that where things happen, and when is the main determinant for success - a good plan that gets you close-in without heavy losses, and allows sufficient suppression to fight the initial battles on an equal footing while retaining firepower to defeat his reserves will ultimately succeed. Blowing away his front-line in the first attack but having no 'effort' left will usually lead to some costly days ahead...
A nice mix is perhaps the best - forcing him to choose to give up some positions he still holds, launch costly counter-attacks which you can throw back with heavy losses in the open, or to risk encirclement and supply problems.

< Message edited by Lieste -- 6/22/2011 2:41:39 AM >

(in reply to gabeeg)
Post #: 8
RE: Is there interest in fictional scenarios - 6/22/2011 1:45:30 PM   
vandorenp

 

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I am working on expansion pack called Knock on All Doors. This supposes 5th Panzer Army was responsible for all the intial assaults. 6th Pz Army held in reserve. Trimmed the scope down to 9 scenarios so as to have a chance to finish it. Left off the table is a feint on Luxembourg City, rematch between 7th AD and 9th Pz and 15 PzG, 2nd, 11th, and 116th Pz exploiting, and 6 Pz Army making the right hook of the Small Solution. I am wrapping up the third of the 9 scenarios. The next and the first three had minimal map work. The last four require map additions. And I am running out of time.

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Post #: 9
RE: Is there interest in fictional scenarios - 6/25/2011 6:26:59 PM   
Chief Rudiger

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lieste

I don't have one of the Epsoms - a corrupted download, but there is also an early days version of Afwaterings Canal in a thread not far from here. Not sure if Chief is still working on the original one, but I am using the map and general 'situation' as a sandbox for testing my platoon Estab variant.

...

Longer version of Merdjayoun with campaign dates & thus a long dwell between phase 1 (capture of Merdjayoun et al and exit of forces North West) and phase 2 (loss of Merdjayoun and stabilisation of front at south). Huge exit points contribution to victory total forces the allied player to be very careful of holding too much back, but dwell allows it to stay on-map for a bit longer than the original attack took if things are taking too long.

...

Platoon Based version of Afwaterings - with different OOBs during building/testing of units - currently one 1944 Grenadier Bn, holding vs two British Inf Bn (less armour supports, but with supports across the canal by fires).

In each case it is highly apparent that where things happen, and when is the main determinant for success - a good plan that gets you close-in without heavy losses, and allows sufficient suppression to fight the initial battles on an equal footing while retaining firepower to defeat his reserves will ultimately succeed. Blowing away his front-line in the first attack but having no 'effort' left will usually lead to some costly days ahead...
A nice mix is perhaps the best - forcing him to choose to give up some positions he still holds, launch costly counter-attacks which you can throw back with heavy losses in the open, or to risk encirclement and supply problems.


Re: Afwaterings,

After my initial burst of activity I've been reading around the subject - have nearly a shelf full of 51st HD and 21st Army Group books now and took the radical step of (almost) getting rid of old Uni course books and rubbish coffee table books (they're all at the door waiting a final sort...)!

Re: Merdjayoun

Sounds like you've made it historical! Can i have your editted copy? Would you be interested in making a Jezzine or Kunietra/Mezze/Damascus scenario (with limitations on French counter-attack fuel supply) and plenty opportunity to mess with each other's supply routes? I'd knock out maps and paper OOB & sources if you'd make them playable!

(in reply to Lieste)
Post #: 10
RE: Is there interest in fictional scenarios - 6/25/2011 11:11:49 PM   
Lieste

 

Posts: 1819
Joined: 11/1/2008
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I want to replay Merdjayoun with the rout bug patched, and retune. But then I'll pop it across to you to look at and post.

If you want to make some Palestine/Lebanon maps then I'll happily populate them... I've got my eye on stuff from Allenby's expedition as well. If I'm not mistaken, the operation here during the great war included the fastest sustained advance before ODS, which should be interesting to replicate...

(in reply to Chief Rudiger)
Post #: 11
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