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Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10

 
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Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 4:11:43 AM   
Fallschirmjager


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Despite some light satire at my and my pictures expense, it seemed to go well yesterday. So here is day 2. I upped the difficulty quite a bit but I still expect this will be identified in very short order.

Today is a two part question. Give the name for the ship in the picture, also give the name for what this ship eventually became (that should be a hint). And for extra credit, name the city in the background.



< Message edited by Fallschirmjager -- 6/11/2011 4:14:04 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 4:52:14 AM   
Chickenboy


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Quick guess before bed...

My formal answer is SS America/ USS West Point...Philadelphia (???)

However, the text on the ship's starboard bow appears to be two words. Like it could be a similar ship the SS United States. I saw this old girl sitting idle in port in Philadelphia when I drove through there. But she never really became anything-or at least not yet. If it is her, the clue is baffling.

ETA: I blew up the picture and can clearly read "West" as the first word. I'll go with my formal answer above...

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 5:03:15 AM   
Fallschirmjager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Quick guess before bed...

My formal answer is SS America/ USS West Point...Philadelphia (???)

However, the text on the ship's starboard bow appears to be two words. Like it could be a similar ship the SS United States. I saw this old girl sitting idle in port in Philadelphia when I drove through there. But she never really became anything-or at least not yet. If it is her, the clue is baffling.

ETA: I blew up the picture and can clearly read "West" as the first word. I'll go with my formal answer above...


Very good guess, but not correct. Unless my caption information is wrong. And I shouldn't reward you for cheating!

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 5:07:25 AM   
CV 2

 

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Looks like a Beetle Class steam tug (the one on the left). That big ship in the foreground kind of distorts it a little so its hard to tell.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 5:19:44 AM   
Shark7


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OK, going to wager a guess:

SS Manhattan, converted into AP-21 USS Wakefield

City is definately New York (actually Manhattan) note the Empire State Building in the background.

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 6/11/2011 5:20:40 AM >


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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 5:21:22 AM   
Sredni

 

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Here's a pic of the ss america off the same city heh.




very similar but some minor differences. close enough for one to be a post/pre refit of the other.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Sredni -- 6/11/2011 5:24:36 AM >

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 5:37:36 AM   
Fallschirmjager


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We got the city down but still the wrong ship.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 6:04:34 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

OK, going to wager a guess:

SS Manhattan, converted into AP-21 USS Wakefield

City is definately New York (actually Manhattan) note the Empire State Building in the background.


I second this.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 8:31:59 AM   
Local Yokel


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I will go for SS Washington, later USS Mount Vernon (AP-22). A ship I have sunk a number of times

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 9:17:47 AM   
Fallschirmjager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Local Yokel

I will go for SS Washington, later USS Mount Vernon (AP-22). A ship I have sunk a number of times



Correct :)
At least according to the source I have. This is the ship pre-war off NYC.

I used this picture out of great sadness since in my most recent PBEM the evil DivePac sunk this ship off point Blair with three 18 inch torpedoes delivered by the hated Betty. Unfortunately for my little digital men it also had the better part of a British brigade aboard :(
I hate losing my fast transports early on.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 4:31:06 PM   
Sredni

 

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The ss washington and the ss manhattan were sister ships, but wikipedia doesn't tell of any connection between washington/manhattan and the ss america. I wonder if they were connected at all, they certainly look remarkably similar. The funnels are a bit different, the row of windows below the life rafts are a bit different, the decks are slightly different, and the washington has 8 life boats, while the america seems to have 7 plus a smaller one (per side).

I guess it could be as simple as the same company designing them to similar specs, or one company imitating another.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 5:00:20 PM   
Chickenboy


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In hindsight, the top decks and the relationship to the second funnels are different. The OP quiz photo's second funnel is nearly at the end of the top deck, further back from the first funnel. The USS America image has the second funnel much further forward relatively, with much of the top deck behind it still.

You know, they're quite beautiful ships...

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 5:44:51 PM   
Shark7


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Well, it appears that SS Manhattan and SS Washington are sister ships, so if it wasn't one, it had to be the other.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 6:53:48 PM   
Local Yokel


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Yes, Manhattan and Washington are the sisters, and constructed about seven years before America. With those distinctive funnels, America bore a greater resemblance to the last Blue Riband holder, United States, though constructed about 14 years earlier. That forward funnel was, in fact, a dummy.

The two sisters ended up in the mothball fleet on the Hudson River from (?) about 1952, whilst America remained on the Transatlantic run until 1963. The story of her subsequent decline and stranding off Fuerteventura makes sad reading. Not long ago you could make out the wreck on Google Earth, but her destruction by the sea has proceeded so far that this may no longer be possible.

Things seem to have looked up a bit for 'Big U' at Philadelphia in the last twelve months.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 7:05:47 PM   
m10bob


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My dad in law was one of the coasties on the Wakefield when she was bombed at Singapore.(Bragging rights).

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 7:26:55 PM   
JWE

 

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USS Wakefield was borken up at Jones Point, New York, Just a year or so before I got to that part of the cirriculum at the 'Tute. A good ship, sailed by good men.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 8:11:52 PM   
bjfagan

 

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The ship clearly has two names on the bow. I believe Chickenboy was correct on the West Point. Captions aside, the photo speaks for itself. I think it is saying a thousand and two words.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 8:59:31 PM   
ilovestrategy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

My dad in law was one of the coasties on the Wakefield when she was bombed at Singapore.(Bragging rights).


That's so cool.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 9:11:10 PM   
Fallschirmjager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjfagan

The ship clearly has two names on the bow. I believe Chickenboy was correct on the West Point. Captions aside, the photo speaks for itself. I think it is saying a thousand and two words.



I blew up the image too and the quality is terrible. I can't make out any of the letters or if the space in between is even truly a space.
However, the ship is definitely in pre-war state with it's paint work and other decoration. I highly doubt a military ship would have streamers going between the masts. Unless the Navy thought the Japanese would not bomb her because she looked so pretty.
Also note the the funnel configuration is wrong and there are no AAA emplacements.
The ship was not named the West Point until it was taken over by the Navy. And I am no expert but that definitly does not look like a Navy ship. I have to agree with the caption.

The next one will be up in a few hours.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 9:12:03 PM   
Fallschirmjager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


You know, they're quite beautiful ships...



Yes they are, which is why I choose them and why it hurt so much to lose one.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/11/2011 9:17:24 PM   
Shark7


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager


quote:

ORIGINAL: bjfagan

The ship clearly has two names on the bow. I believe Chickenboy was correct on the West Point. Captions aside, the photo speaks for itself. I think it is saying a thousand and two words.



I blew up the image too and the quality is terrible. I can't make out any of the letters or if the space in between is even truly a space.
However, the ship is definitely in pre-war state with it's paint work and other decoration. I highly doubt a military ship would have streamers going between the masts. Unless the Navy thought the Japanese would not bomb her because she looked so pretty.
Also note the the funnel configuration is wrong and there are no AAA emplacements.
The ship was not named the West Point until it was taken over by the Navy. And I am no expert but that definitly does not look like a Navy ship. I have to agree with the caption.

The next one will be up in a few hours.


Well given IJN submarine doctrine, she wouldn't have been worth 'wasting' a torpedo on. Talk about a completely mismanaged asset.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/12/2011 12:39:05 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager


quote:

ORIGINAL: bjfagan

The ship clearly has two names on the bow. I believe Chickenboy was correct on the West Point. Captions aside, the photo speaks for itself. I think it is saying a thousand and two words.



I blew up the image too and the quality is terrible. I can't make out any of the letters or if the space in between is even truly a space.
However, the ship is definitely in pre-war state with it's paint work and other decoration. I highly doubt a military ship would have streamers going between the masts. Unless the Navy thought the Japanese would not bomb her because she looked so pretty.
Also note the the funnel configuration is wrong and there are no AAA emplacements.
The ship was not named the West Point until it was taken over by the Navy. And I am no expert but that definitly does not look like a Navy ship. I have to agree with the caption.

The next one will be up in a few hours.

Here's a blow up... it looks like the first word IS "West"...




Attachment (1)

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/12/2011 12:49:33 AM   
rtrapasso


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Here's another photo of her from the USS West Point website... i suspect the pic was made in 1946 on her return to NY at the end of her Navy career, and thus the bunting/flags, etc.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/12/2011 1:04:50 AM   
Fallschirmjager


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It is very possible that it is indeed the wrong caption then. I am posting the next picture now.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/12/2011 3:50:44 AM   
Swayin


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a later shot of the mount vernon:



< Message edited by Swayin -- 6/12/2011 3:51:31 AM >


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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/12/2011 6:13:49 AM   
ilovestrategy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


You know, they're quite beautiful ships...



Yes they are, which is why I choose them and why it hurt so much to lose one.



I'm curious, why would this ship be in a game about the Pacific War? Did it have some duties there?

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/12/2011 5:36:38 PM   
US87891

 

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It is a good caption. It is definitely not the USS West Point/SS America. The differences between the OP ship and SS America are not minor. Deck extensions and even deck height aft compel the conclusion this is not SS America. Stack arrangement, bridge configuration, deck configuration, bow aspect and configuration, stern aspect configuration, do not come close to SS America. However they match SS Washington and SS Manhattan exactly.

This is my opinion, but I had some help from JWE on it.

Mat

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/12/2011 7:08:00 PM   
oldman45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


You know, they're quite beautiful ships...



Yes they are, which is why I choose them and why it hurt so much to lose one.



I'm curious, why would this ship be in a game about the Pacific War? Did it have some duties there?


I am assuming your question is what these type of ships do in the game? Several of the Transatlantic liners were "borrowed" by the Navy and converted to troop transports. If I missed your question, sorry


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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/12/2011 7:31:41 PM   
Sredni

 

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Did the government actually pay the private owners of all the ships they appropriated their actual value? I find myself wondering if there were any shipping companies that found their fleets confiscated for a fraction of their real value and thus no ability to earn income for the duration of the war and then the return of only some of their ships which were now worn down hulks.

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RE: Identify this #2 - Difficulty 6.0/10 - 6/12/2011 8:50:10 PM   
Fallschirmjager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


You know, they're quite beautiful ships...



Yes they are, which is why I choose them and why it hurt so much to lose one.



I'm curious, why would this ship be in a game about the Pacific War? Did it have some duties there?



If you play the game as the Allied side, about 10 days after the start of the Grand Campaign a TF comes in from off map and it has several big high speed transports, a few smaller transports and two cargo ships. This TF is carrying the 18th British division to Singapore. Some ships in this convoy spent the rest of the war in the Atlantic and other went between San Francisco and HI.

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