Matrix Games Forums

New screenshots for War in the West!Pike & Shot is now available!Server Maintenance Battle Academy 2 gets updated!Deal of the Week: Advanced Tactics Gold Ask Buzz Aldrin!Pike & Shot gets Release Date and Twitch Session!Deal of the Week Espana 1936War in the West coming in December!Space Program Manager will be launching on Steam
Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Naval Supply

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Naval Supply Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Naval Supply - 5/30/2011 9:39:14 PM   
TommyG


Posts: 269
Joined: 9/25/2004
From: Irvine Ca
Status: offline
This is a quote from the manual on the issue of naval supply:

[quoteShips fire one round per weapon per round of combat. Once ammunition is expended, ships
can replenish their ammunition at ports.
Ports: Ports have an ability to rearm Naval vessels, depending on their size, and the availability
of sufficient supply at the port. Ports have Rearm points and expend those points on the basis
of the “Load Cost” of the weapons desiring rearming. If a Port has sufficient Rearm points
available for the weapons desiring rearming, those weapons will receive a suitable load of
ammunition. The supplies expended are based on the amount of ammo needed to replenish
the ship and the type of ammo needed.][/quote]

1. How is "load cost" determined?
2. What are "Rearm Points", what screen are they listed on, how are they calculated?
3. What is a "suitable load" of ammo? half, one-third, what?
4. How much supply is expanded, and how is that determined.

Why I ask:
I have a BB TF trying to rearm at a size 6 port with 150 Naval support. No main guns will reload. this has buggered any amphious assault a half day away. I would like to not make this mistake again
Post #: 1
RE: Naval Supply - 5/30/2011 9:54:30 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7164
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
I've found that having a few ammo ships tag along behind the invasion if they are available can be beneficial. Especially the large ones. Except for Yamato and Musashi, those two can only reaload at a very large port (8 with support I think, 9 without).

I can tell you that ships go into what you'd call an ammo conservation mode when ammo is down to around 1/3 full load, and will break engagements if possible.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to TommyG)
Post #: 2
RE: Naval Supply - 5/31/2011 1:07:27 AM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 700
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
If you look at page 285 of the manual (20.1.2.2 Ship rearmament at ports table) you can find the various requirements to reload the various naval guns, torpedoes and some other devices.

16 inch guns have a rearm cost of 5400, and can reload at level 7 ports with zero nav support, level 6 ports with 940 nav support, 5 with 1020, and so on. So pretty much only level 7 ports unless you stack an ungodly amount of nav support.


Those same 16 inch guns with their 5400 rearm cost, can also be reloaded at smaller ports by an AKE or AE (or at sea late war by AE) with 5400 cargo capacity. The cargo capacity of the AKE/AE determines its rearm capacity. It has to be loaded with supply but it won't use up all that supply to rearm, just a little bit per rearm.

I'm not sure how much supply is used, but I seem to remember it was enough to hurt when I was running BB's out of soerbaja at the start of the war.

I've never seen a ship that rearms do less then it's full reload. I assume a suitable reload just means appropriate ammo for the right guns.

(in reply to TommyG)
Post #: 3
RE: Naval Supply - 5/31/2011 1:12:22 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8147
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TommyG

This is a quote from the manual on the issue of naval supply:

[quoteShips fire one round per weapon per round of combat. Once ammunition is expended, ships
can replenish their ammunition at ports.
Ports: Ports have an ability to rearm Naval vessels, depending on their size, and the availability
of sufficient supply at the port. Ports have Rearm points and expend those points on the basis
of the “Load Cost” of the weapons desiring rearming. If a Port has sufficient Rearm points
available for the weapons desiring rearming, those weapons will receive a suitable load of
ammunition. The supplies expended are based on the amount of ammo needed to replenish
the ship and the type of ammo needed.]


1. How is "load cost" determined?
2. What are "Rearm Points", what screen are they listed on, how are they calculated?
3. What is a "suitable load" of ammo? half, one-third, what?
4. How much supply is expanded, and how is that determined.

Why I ask:
I have a BB TF trying to rearm at a size 6 port with 150 Naval support. No main guns will reload. this has buggered any amphious assault a half day away. I would like to not make this mistake again


Load cost for naval guns is based on the effect. Been a while but I think it's effect times two. We had to use effect since naval and DP guns all have a stated load cost of 9999. Things that are "ammo" - torpedoes, mines, depth charges - use the load cost from the editor.

Rearm points in your question are based on port size plus naval support. Don't recall the exact calculations and it is not shown on any screen. The calculations just might be in the manual...

A Suitable load is enough supply to make up the load cost of the ammo needed. There's some pounds-to-tons conversions that make it a little complicated but basically each supply point is one ton of ammo and loadcost is calculated in pounds. A ship that needs 10,000 load cost of ammo will draw 5 supply points. The ammo ship must have this much supply. It must also have a total capacity equal to or greater than the load cost of each weapon.
So, a gun with an effect of 1000 will have (I believe) a load cost of 2000. This means the ammo ship must have a total capacity of 2000 and at least one supply point on board for each "round".

Some recommendations:
Use ammo ships. AE or AKE. Until 1945 these are identical. Put one or more in a forward port, along with a tanker or two (TK, doesn't have to be AO for in-port refueling). Give it some protection too - minesweepers and ASW small craft at a minimum. Some fighters would be nice too. This creates a "pit stop" where ships can put in for fuel and ammo. And some repair ships and you got a full fledged port's abilities at a small port.

If you ain't got ammo ships, use lots and lots of naval support. Naval Support emulates repair facilities, cargo handling troops, fuel and ammo lighters, harbor tugs, etc. The idea behind Naval Support was to allow temporary facilities in excess of port size.

(in reply to TommyG)
Post #: 4
RE: Naval Supply - 5/31/2011 1:13:31 AM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1925
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
Port 6 + 150 Naval support will get 8" guns, nothing bigger. You'd need hundreds more NS for BB guns, exact amount depending on which BB.

There's a table of rearm costs in the manual starting on p.284. It looks pretty complicated (and is) but after a while you get the general hang of things.

There's a step function between level 6 and level 7. 7 can rearm everything (except Yamato class main batteries). Level 6 is far less capable, and it steps down more incrementally from there.

As Shark7 notes, having tenders in ports can help a lot. But the tender has to have capacity equal/above the rearm cost to work. Some of the tenders are too small for BB main guns.

Note it's not just guns, you need a lvl 6 for normal CVTF sorties and level 7 for torpedo sorties (or smaller ports with naval support or an AE/AKE)



< Message edited by erstad -- 5/31/2011 1:15:31 AM >

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 5
RE: Naval Supply - 6/4/2011 3:48:43 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4717
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline
OK - I'm going to add this to Tracker for a quick look-up.

Using the equation
For Port size 1
NS =ROUNDUP((0.2*ReArm_Cost)-3)
For Port size > 1
NS = =ROUNDUP((0.2*ReArm_Cost)-(ReArm_Level/5))

Then give closest Port and eventually supply need to fully rearm.



_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 6
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Naval Supply Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.070