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Panzerglocke vs Pakfronts

 
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Panzerglocke vs Pakfronts - 5/30/2011 8:01:32 PM   
general_solomon

 

Posts: 239
Joined: 5/18/2007
Status: offline 		Hey Guys,

I was reading that the Germans developed a defensive technique called Pakfront (anti-armor units) which was later used by the soviets to great effect at kursk and elsewhere.

to counter this, the Panzer commanders developed the armored bell ( panzerglocke) formation. the heavy tanks at the center and the medium tanks to the right and rear and light tanks behind the center.

I could not find any diagrams online to illustrate both tactics. can someone here both concepts with some sceenshots or diagrams. I am a visual person and need to see it to my head around the concept.

thanks,

Gen. Solomon
Post #: 1
RE: Panzerglocke vs Pakfronts - 5/30/2011 8:05:11 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12673
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		I'll bet that the shortage of heavy tanks helped develop that tactic. Sounds like a wedge formation with 3 heavys and a couple of lights on the wings.

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RE: Panzerglocke vs Pakfronts - 5/30/2011 8:23:10 PM   
general_solomon

 

Posts: 239
Joined: 5/18/2007
Status: offline 		actually, from what i read, this armored bell formation was developed because the wedge formation could not counteract the Pakfronts.

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RE: Panzerglocke vs Pakfronts - 5/30/2011 9:40:50 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

New weapons brought with them new tactics, most notably the Panzerglocke [tank bell], "with (super-)heavy tanks in the center, medium tanks to the right and left in a widening arch, light tanks behind the center and held ready for pursuit."[37] The Germans felt that this was the best formation to confront a wide front.

&

The Panzerglocke replaced the Panzerkeil [tank wedge] as the standard armor formation. The Panzerkeil used a spearhead assault made up of medium and heavy tanks to break through enemy defenses.


The author of the article quoted above got the information from:
quote:

F. W. von Mellenthin, Panzer Battles: A Study of the Employment of Armor in the Second World War, trans. H. Betzler (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1956)


If I were to guess why the change was made: a wedge is not effective when breaking through a wide front, as a breakthrough doesn't automatically threaten the enemy position if the rest of the line holds. All it will do is cause the spearhead to more or less automatically isolate themselves as the follow-up troops are harassed from the flanks of the breakthrough point.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/30/2011 9:42:29 PM >

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RE: Panzerglocke vs Pakfronts - 5/30/2011 11:10:53 PM   
general_solomon

 

Posts: 239
Joined: 5/18/2007
Status: offline 		you are correct. most articles on the net reference the Panzerkeil. this was the first time I came accross the Panzerglocke.

have you had the opportunity to used either tactic in your long campaign?

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RE: Panzerglocke vs Pakfronts - 5/31/2011 2:30:34 AM   
general_solomon

 

Posts: 239
Joined: 5/18/2007
Status: offline 		I found a graphical representaton:

http://www.woods-car.com/tanks/sld006.htm

I dont know who to paste the picture directly on this page. maybe someone else can do it for me.



J2D: thanks for the picture below.

< Message edited by general_solomon -- 5/31/2011 2:46:32 AM >

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RE: Panzerglocke vs Pakfronts - 5/31/2011 2:32:26 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12673
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline

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Conflict of Heroes "Most games are like checkers or chess and some have dice and cards involved too. This game plays like checkers but you think like chess and the dice and cards can change everything in real time."

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RE: Panzerglocke vs Pakfronts - 5/31/2011 10:48:53 AM   
ComradeP

 

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Joined: 9/17/2009
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quote:

have you had the opportunity to used either tactic in your long campaign?


I don't have, nor will I get (at least not core ones), heavy tanks, so tactics/formations were one group of tanks essentially acts as a piñata, drawing fire and diverting fire from the rest are not really possible. I keep my Panzer IIB's some distance from the front as even a DShK can destroy them.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 6/1/2011 7:12:29 PM >

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RE: Panzerglocke vs Pakfronts - 5/31/2011 12:36:17 PM   
Richie61


Posts: 184
Joined: 3/2/2009
From: Massachusetts
Status: offline 		Some really interesting "slides" on that site about armor formations. 

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