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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (no Q-Ball please)

 
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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/23/2011 3:28:59 PM   
Cannonfodder


Posts: 1326
Joined: 10/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

I rush down a panzer corps to shore up the defenses down south. My CVs are not really healthy, while Soviet CVs are awe inspiring...





Tarhunnas, do you have a feeling you will be able to do something to reverse the situation, if even locally? Seems to me you need to grab the initiative somehow because Q-ball is deciding how and where he wants to wear you down at the moment.


_____________________________





(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 571
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/23/2011 3:55:28 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1369
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		I think due to the fact that he can't even get 3:1 casualties when he counter-attacks, there is no realistic chance of regaining the initiative.  If you can't force the Soviets out of 3-deep defensive lines (of forts, mind you), you can't force the Soviets off balance.




_____________________________

For the longest time I thought I'd buy WitW to ensure my legitimate voice of criticism could be heard. But as WitE continues down the path of Soviet Army fantasy-land, I've given up all hope of enjoying either game again.

(in reply to Cannonfodder)
Post #: 572
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/23/2011 4:58:09 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		I would sure like to regain the initiative, but as Helio says, that is pretty hard as the Red Army looks at present. Q-Ball is also a very careful and methodical commander. I have a feeling he will not risk any rash dashing breakthroughs, but be quite content with wearing me down gradually, so I do not think I will get many chances of decisive counterstrokes.

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 573
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/23/2011 6:30:49 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 80. December 24 1942. Blizzard.

Another christmas at the front.

The entire front is ablaze, from Kalinin to the Black Sea. Most Soviet attacks are successful! Nothing very subtle though, it is the Russian Steam Roller indeed!




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(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 574
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/23/2011 6:52:02 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		A bright spot in the defense. Only 9 Axis casualties, and they turn out to have been members of a squad of the Rumanian Mountain Division who fell into a foxhole and twisted their ankles.




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(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 575
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/23/2011 8:17:22 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Shuffling around the defense as usual. Nothing very interesting to show a screenshot of. Instead I quote an observation I got from Q-Ball in a mail:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Not sure how the Germans are supposed to defend the Soviet Army, or what the best tactics are. The way forts work, it pays to stay and die deep in Russia, rather than retreat gradually. What happens then is that the Soviets don't take much territory, until the Wehrmacht is cooked, and then the floodgates open,



I think he is spot on there. The game mechanics simply don't encourage a fighting withdrawal, as you will tend to want to stay in the forts as long as possible.

OOB after turn 80.





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(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 576
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/27/2011 7:31:48 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 81. December 31 1942. Blizzard.

Things are beginning to look ugly! Especially in the south, I am running out of fortifications, and Soviet attacks are relentlessly grinding me down. Here are losses from the preceding Soviet turn.




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(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 577
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/27/2011 7:34:11 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		The front in the south after Axis moves. As things are better (but not good) west of Moscow, i transfer about a panzer corps southwards, they can be seen on trains in the Gomel area.




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(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 578
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/27/2011 8:12:16 AM   
majeloz

 

Posts: 250
Joined: 2/13/2011
From: Australia
Status: offline 		A suggestion, based on how I am playing a game where I have had to retreat slightly further than you in late 1942, but have held him really well since:

It may seem risky, but get some weak Inf divisions back behind the lines, broken down into regts along with italians digging your next line - Rumanians too. The question is: where? If you do this along the Dnepr, the risk is you will get out flanked from around Nikolaev. So, I'd probably say, go back deeper and have longer to dig and then asically defend this line through mid-late 1943. The best line is just east of Odessa, maybe, so long as you can hold there now. Then head west-north towards Kiev, using the small river, but rejoining the Dnepr south of the Pripyat marshes.  I've found that the Rumanians and ITalians add little defensively  - you can't rely on them alone, and if stacked with Germans, rarely make the difference. You will thank me when there's a line of Fort 3s ready :).

But, to be honest, I reckon you are doing well here... only that sourthern area is a risk


_____________________________

I still remember cardboard!

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 579
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/27/2011 8:19:43 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: majeloz

A suggestion, based on how I am playing a game where I have had to retreat slightly further than you in late 1942, but have held him really well since:

It may seem risky, but get some weak Inf divisions back behind the lines, broken down into regts along with italians digging your next line - Rumanians too. The question is: where? If you do this along the Dnepr, the risk is you will get out flanked from around Nikolaev. So, I'd probably say, go back deeper and have longer to dig and then asically defend this line through mid-late 1943. The best line is just east of Odessa, maybe, so long as you can hold there now. Then head west-north towards Kiev, using the small river, but rejoining the Dnepr south of the Pripyat marshes.  I've found that the Rumanians and ITalians add little defensively  - you can't rely on them alone, and if stacked with Germans, rarely make the difference. You will thank me when there's a line of Fort 3s ready :).

But, to be honest, I reckon you are doing well here... only that sourthern area is a risk



Thanks for the suggestion! I will consider it, though the problem is that during blizzard fort building is very slow. At present I have problems building even a second line of forts behind the first.

Thanks for the encouragement, but I don't feel I am doing well at all. I am constantly being pushed back and I am suffering losses that I cannot sustain and my fort levels are now 1-2 along the southern front. And the situation is getting worse from turn to turn. It is only a question of time before there is an ugly rupture of the front.

(in reply to majeloz)
Post #: 580
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/27/2011 9:43:57 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Turn 70 to 90 is the killer for sure, been there myself in one game. If the Germans are unable to attack during the summer of 42 they get rollered from 70 to 90.

How many of the attacks is he winning because of the 1v1=2v1 rule?

Even 1/2 is a killer for you instead of him.

1v1=2v1 causes increased losses for the Germans and much lower deaths for the Russian player because of retreats
1v1=2v1 causes lowered moral for the german and increased moral for the Russian army because of the retreats.
Plus you are driven from your forts when you should not be.

Its a deadly combo that tweaking will never fix.

You had a great summer of 41 as far as citys and losses goes, but were unable to take out 100 armerment 100pts, plus took kinda high losses during blizzard.

Hopefully the next patch addresses these issues.

1. 1v1=2v1
2. Make moving industry harder.

As the game stands now as long as the Russian run for the hills (they can loss every major city without penality)and rails out industy the German army becomes the Italian army between turns 70 - 90.

Pelton



< Message edited by Pelton -- 8/27/2011 9:50:15 AM >

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 581
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/29/2011 10:10:58 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 82. January 7 1943.

More Soviet attacks in the south, the pictures will no doubt be familiar now, so no need to post a screenshot of the map.

The Soviets are exploitig with tank and mechanized corps now, and those are much easier to counterattack than cavalry or rifle units. Example below.




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(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 582
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/29/2011 10:11:44 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Summary of losses after my turn. The ratio in the counterattacks is not too bad now.




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(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 583
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/30/2011 12:41:48 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Yes about all you can do to even things out.

1.05 has increased tank production?

My army broke on turn 87.

How fast is your total German OOB number dropping per turn?

I was lossing 50k per turn of just German men in to OOB. and Hoooper was gaining 40k a turn. Tracking this is key.

Your doing better then me at this time. Q-ball has about 600,000 less men then Hoooper and you have 100,000 more men on turn 80.

Pelton

< Message edited by Pelton -- 8/30/2011 12:55:28 AM >

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 584
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/30/2011 10:06:15 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I made even more successful attacks than last turn; basically almost one for every hex of the front south of Moscow. I am fully exploiting the +1 rule to multiply attacks and bleed the Axis more fully. I am certain it's working.


Thats a quote from Q-balls thread. I am not downing Q-ball, he like Hoooper were tring to show the huge impact of the flying pig rule on a historical game.

I have a nice screen shot of Q-balls use of the flying pigs rule on game play. (1v1=2v1)

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2895739&mpage=1&key=�





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< Message edited by Pelton -- 8/30/2011 10:08:59 AM >

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 585
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/30/2011 10:50:48 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

How fast is your total German OOB number dropping per turn?

I was lossing 50k per turn of just German men in to OOB. and Hoooper was gaining 40k a turn. Tracking this is key.

Your doing better then me at this time. Q-ball has about 600,000 less men then Hoooper and you have 100,000 more men on turn 80.



Thanks, that was a little encouraging at least. It is only a matter of time before my army breaks too.

I will check the OOB growth rates.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 586
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/31/2011 9:22:04 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 83. January 14 1943. Blizzard.

Ouch! I am getting steamrollered along the whole front from Moscow to the Black Sea!




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(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 587
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/31/2011 9:22:58 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		And losses are bad! More than 100k! This cannot go on for long before my army breaks!




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(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 588
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/31/2011 9:27:39 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		A stack is isolated near Bryansk. Let's see if we can get them out...?




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(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 589
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/31/2011 9:34:05 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Yes! We did it!

Actually, as they were only surrounded by a number of guards tank corps, it was not really in doubt. If, OTOH the Soviets had had the same number of men but no tanks, then we would have been in deep trouble... (ok, ok, I do sound a little sarcastic here, but that is the way it feels).




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Post #: 590
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/31/2011 10:21:37 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		This is a sample of the kind of front I can cobble together! I have to put the panzers in the line, otherwise I wouldn't have any front at all...




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(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 591
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/31/2011 10:25:52 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Here is the OOB. Compared to the last one, on turn 80, I am down 192k men while the Reds are up 174k.




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(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 592
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 8/31/2011 10:31:45 PM   
wpurdom

 

Posts: 410
Joined: 10/27/2000
From: Decatur, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Hopefully the next patch addresses these issues.

1. 1v1=2v1
2. Make moving industry harder.


Doing both would be overkill. PARTICULARLY when combined with some of the other adjustments that are in the works. As a simulation, given equal pay by equal players, I think the USSR should win. But it ought to be harder than it is to break the German army and its morale. Phasing out the 1v1 rule and making the German morale gravitate towards the national morale together with the production changes already in the works would be enough, if not more than enough, to try out.

I think its pretty hard to make the game balanced over 4 years, by their nature wargames don't maintain balance easily since electronic generals push their troops harder and longer than can be done in the real world - and also have no compunctions about casualty rates or worries about lower echelons putting on the slows or getting combat fatigued.

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 593
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 9/4/2011 8:49:00 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline 		Turn 84.

Things are getting worse and worse. Here is a picture from the southern front. It looks like first blizzard, the problem is it isn't...




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(in reply to wpurdom)
Post #: 594
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 9/4/2011 8:59:33 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Mine broke turn 87 looks like it be same for you.

The mud will save you for a few turns.

You guys going to call it quits and give 1.05 a try?

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 595
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 9/4/2011 9:09:11 PM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton
You guys going to call it quits and give 1.05 a try?


1.05 seems great, but I am starting to feel like I have had too much WITE for a while. I takes a lot of time. I think I am ready for a vacation from the eastern front after this.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 596
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 9/4/2011 9:27:46 PM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Hope to see you back soon.

(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 597
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 9/5/2011 3:38:47 AM   
Klydon

 

Posts: 1874
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Hope to see you back soon.


+1

Hope to see you back soon bud, but totally understand about a break.

(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 598
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 9/5/2011 8:58:37 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Hope to see you back soon.


+1

Hope to see you back soon bud, but totally understand about a break.


Thanks! I will not disappear just like that though. I will play out my current commitments, but I don't think I will start any new GCs in the near future.

(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 599
RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 9/6/2011 9:39:05 AM   
Tarhunnas


Posts: 2945
Joined: 1/27/2011
From: Hex X37, Y15
Status: offline
Q-Ball and I have decided to end the game. My army is being crushed in the south, and there is no real hope of stabilizing the front. With 1.05 around the corner, there seems no point in carrying on.

Q-Ball has played an excellent game and done a good job in masterfully husbanding his resources and of demolishing my army!



(in reply to Tarhunnas)
Post #: 600
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