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The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (no Q-Ball please)

 
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The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (no Q-... - 5/23/2011 6:41:35 PM   
Tarhunnas


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This time I am up against a real expert player. Q-Ball was on the forum when I started playing WITE, and I regard him as a veteran and pioneer. I have learnt a lot from his AARs and from him being my STAVKA commander in our team game.

We are starting a 41-45 GC, me as the Germans and Q-Ball as the Soviets.

Turn 1.
I am almost embarrased to use the Riga gambit aginst Q-Ball, I learnt it from one of his AARs. Otherwise, pretty much the standard opening in the center. In the south I go for the big Lvov pocket.

The only unusual thing I do is send the Grossdeutschland south. I need one more unit to make sure of closing the big Lvov pocket. I am also somewhat light on the airfield bombings. In my view, most of the Soviet aircraft destroyed are crap anyway, and I want to keep some air unit mileage for ground support. I think it is more important to ensure a smooth advance that killing a few more Soviet aircraft.

I am generally very meticulous when closing pockets, maybe too much so, but I hate leaky pockets, and they cost time. Thats why I place regiments at some places, to be insure against leakage or units sneaking in from the swamps.

Overview after German moves turn 1.




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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 5/23/2011 6:42:33 PM >
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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/23/2011 6:49:31 PM   
Ketza


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Good looking opening. All of those broken down divisions would make me nervous but if the pockets hold then it doesnt really matter in the end

Interesting you didnt send a panzer corp down South. No Kovel pocket is like 50k Soviets that can get away and cause trouble but I suppose you have plans in the center.

< Message edited by Ketza -- 5/23/2011 6:51:56 PM >

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/23/2011 7:10:16 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Really... someone should assassinate the guy who invented the mega-pocket in the Southwestern Front ... It's the thing I fear the most... And now it happens in every single game.

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/23/2011 7:57:33 PM   
Tarhunnas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Really... someone should assassinate the guy who invented the mega-pocket in the Southwestern Front ... It's the thing I fear the most... And now it happens in every single game.


I am not sure who invented it, but an early practicioner was my opponent...

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/23/2011 8:23:28 PM   
Ketza


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Good looking opening. All of those broken down divisions would make me nervous but if the pockets hold then it doesnt really matter in the end

Interesting you didnt send a panzer corp down South. No Kovel pocket is like 50k Soviets that can get away and cause trouble but I suppose you have plans in the center.


In many cases its the Axis only shot at any sorta large pocket

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/23/2011 9:15:16 PM   
Tarhunnas


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Turn 2.

Hmmm.... Every Soviet unit north of the marshes just disappeared! Has Q-Ball thought out some kind of Robinsky strategy? A little disconcerting. There seems to be some kind of gathering at Pskov though. Well, I guess there is nothing for it but barge ahead and see what we find! Map after recon but before German moves.




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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/23/2011 9:23:18 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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I think I know what his strategy is... I just deduce it from some exchanges we had Well, time will tell if I am correct...

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/23/2011 10:26:46 PM   
Mynok


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Why did you move the motorized unit up to the northern bulge west of Riga without taking the port there?

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/23/2011 11:05:12 PM   
Klydon


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The motor infantry unit did get the port on the coast, but he didn't send in a security division to hold it. Q-Ball had at least 1 unit rally out of that mess and it was able to move down and take the port back. Not good.

If that Lvov pocket held, you got lucky. I would have bashed the crap out of those tank regiments with the tank corps down by the Rumanian border. They absolutely can get to those regiments and hasty attacks have no issue moving them. (I tested this quite a bit when I was working on my German opening). Move the security regiment over so the tank regiment can't retreat to that hex, then do a hasty. Pocket broken. You would get it right back, but the point is either you don't reduce the pocket for a turn (units rout out instead) or waste even more time waiting to reduce it.

Overall, this will be different without the extra panzers in the south, so it will be interesting to see what an up to strength AGC can pull off this game.

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/24/2011 11:38:24 AM   
Tarhunnas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

The motor infantry unit did get the port on the coast, but he didn't send in a security division to hold it. Q-Ball had at least 1 unit rally out of that mess and it was able to move down and take the port back. Not good.



Exactly, it was an oversight by me not to send the sec boys in via sea movement.

(in reply to Klydon)
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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/24/2011 9:04:14 PM   
Tarhunnas


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Turn 2.

Not much resistance in the north. The panzers trundle forward. At the landbridge, a little tactical dilemma. The 12th Panzer division has 5 MPs left. Should I send it to hex A, discplacing an airfield and making really sure the landbridge isn't fortified? Or should I send it to hex B, securing the supply to the SS-division near Mogilev? A is of course the manly thing to do, dominating the landbridge and striking fear in your opponents heart, though it is risky. If it were me playing the Soviets, I would hit that Panzer division like a ton of bricks, and IIRC there are some CV 3 Soviet infantry divs around... and Q-Ball is at least as capable as I am in organizing a counterattack. The least I could expect would be finding it surrounded and out of supply. B has the nerit of being less risky, and both divisions will have their supply secured for next turn. Think about it, what would you do?






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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 5/24/2011 9:06:33 PM >

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/24/2011 9:09:06 PM   
Tarhunnas


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Here is an overview of the fron aftwer German moves turn 2.

In the north, I cross the river (I can never remember the name of that river) at Ostrov, and snuggle up to it at Pskov.

In the center, the Panzers reach Mogilev, the SS Das Reich division ends up right next to the city, and the industry is still there!

As for the 12th panzer, I surprise myself. I am a wimp! I go for alternative B. I dare not risk an elite panzer division routed!




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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 5/24/2011 9:10:02 PM >

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/24/2011 9:11:38 PM   
Tarhunnas


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In the Ukraine, I get stuck in something like a speed trap for panzers! I really don't accomplish much at all. Nice defense here by Q-Ball, though I expected nothing less.

The denizens of the Lvov pocket turn out to be a resilent bunch! Many retreats and not many surrenders.




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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 5/24/2011 9:12:37 PM >

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/24/2011 9:59:47 PM   
Klydon


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I would have gone B as well. Part of the issue is you don't really have enough issue. It appears the airfield does not have a ground unit with it, but what if it does? Same if the hex to the NW of that airfield has a unit or not. If it does, you don't get nearly the territory flip you would think and would absolutely easily be surrounded.

Pulling back to B keeps both divisions in good shape for next turn and able to resume the attack with a good amount of MPs.

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/24/2011 10:01:33 PM   
Mynok


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Why tote SEC boys up north when you can tote the LI corps (I think that's its name)? The one that starts down near Danzig. Just run to Danzig and ship them up to Riga and that little port. I usually send the polizei unit to the small northwestern port and the HQ and ID to Riga.

Tote the SEC the next turn.

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/24/2011 10:07:24 PM   
Klydon


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I have been using security units for the small ports so I can send the bigger stuff to Riga on turn 1 when shipping is a bit limited. Part of it depends on how much is left there in terms of Russian units. If there are some left like in this case, then I am more tempted to drop a L corps infantry division in the upper port for the expressed purpose of cleaning up any Russian units left in the area and letting my infantry that is a bit further back towards the border do as much marching as possible to catch up. 

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/24/2011 10:51:49 PM   
Mynok


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Well the only port the Soviet could possibly get to is the far northern one and getting Polizei there on turn 1 takes care of that problem. Plus it can quickly join the rest of its corps on turn 2 east of Riga.


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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/25/2011 4:21:18 AM   
Ketza


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B would be my choice.

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/25/2011 8:06:11 PM   
Tarhunnas


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So - how did it go? Here is a shot of the area before German moves turn 3. I am glad I chose B, otherwise I would probably have found my panzer division behind that brown wall (or found it routed *shudder*).




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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/25/2011 8:08:21 PM   
Tarhunnas


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And here is the area after German moves. Some hero rifle division on the landbridge drained the MPs of I don't know how many panzer divisions. Annoying. But I still broke through, and I have a bridgehead on the other side of the Dnepr.




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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/25/2011 8:09:44 PM   
Tarhunnas


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Overview of the north and center after German moves, turn 3.




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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/25/2011 8:12:12 PM   
Tarhunnas


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Closeup of Pskov area. The Soviet Pskov position is mostly obliterated. I send one motor division on a risky exploitation, but I want to keep the momentum towards Leningrad. I will probably find it isolated, but I hope it's worth it. Hopefully, it will mess up Soviet defense plans.




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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 5/25/2011 8:14:00 PM >

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/25/2011 8:15:46 PM   
Tarhunnas


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And the south after German moves turn 3. A little pocket is created southwest of Vinnitsa. Soviet interdiction is a real problem: one of my HQs suddenly get robbed of all its MPs at the wrong moment at the wrong place... I don't think Q-Ball will pass up the opportunity to displace it, so I reassign its units to other HQs nearby to mitigate the effects.




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< Message edited by Tarhunnas -- 5/25/2011 8:56:47 PM >

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/25/2011 10:42:02 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Turn 3 and almost in Novgorod? What is Q-Ball doing?

I suspect I was wrong. He was not going to follow x strategy.

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/25/2011 10:57:33 PM   
Sabre21


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Really... someone should assassinate the guy who invented the mega-pocket in the Southwestern Front ... It's the thing I fear the most... And now it happens in every single game.


I am not sure who invented it, but an early practicioner was my opponent...


I would reckon it was a tester that came up with the idea, and yes I know who. It used to be a lot worse (and still can be), I really wish there was a way to keep this from being the standard move, bit if not this, players would figure out something else just as entertaining.

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/25/2011 11:04:37 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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Yes, now I know, Sabre. The person who invented it (apparently) PMed me a few days ago and told me so Maybe he thought I would be sending my assassins for real...

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"Hang on, is that it...? Are we on the ring...?? Ready???" -- Nürburgring Seven Second Ring King

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/25/2011 11:10:36 PM   
Sabre21


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Yes, now I know, Sabre. The person who invented it (apparently) PMed me a few days ago and told me so Maybe he thought I would be sending my assassins for real...


Really..it would be interesting to know who thinks they invented it..I was doing this strategy over 2 years ago when Joel and I were trying to come up with ways of slowing it down.

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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/26/2011 12:50:00 AM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21


quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Yes, now I know, Sabre. The person who invented it (apparently) PMed me a few days ago and told me so Maybe he thought I would be sending my assassins for real...


Really..it would be interesting to know who thinks they invented it..I was doing this strategy over 2 years ago when Joel and I were trying to come up with ways of slowing it down.

It was Al Gore...

(in reply to Sabre21)
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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/26/2011 9:33:10 AM   
janh

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21
I would reckon it was a tester that came up with the idea, and yes I know who. It used to be a lot worse (and still can be), I really wish there was a way to keep this from being the standard move, bit if not this, players would figure out something else just as entertaining.


One suggestion to that end would be a non-historical game start where both sides would be allowed to relocate units (i.e. limited number, and limited areas where to) before start. Force dispositions less clear, and so the games will be less straight forward. Just an idea for future patches.

(in reply to Sabre21)
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RE: The Anti Bolshevik Crusade - Tarhunnas vs Q-Ball (n... - 5/26/2011 11:40:19 AM   
Tarhunnas


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quote:

ORIGINAL: janh

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21
I would reckon it was a tester that came up with the idea, and yes I know who. It used to be a lot worse (and still can be), I really wish there was a way to keep this from being the standard move, bit if not this, players would figure out something else just as entertaining.


One suggestion to that end would be a non-historical game start where both sides would be allowed to relocate units (i.e. limited number, and limited areas where to) before start. Force dispositions less clear, and so the games will be less straight forward. Just an idea for future patches.


Yes, that would be an interesting idea! Another one would be a slight randomization of the starting positions of Soviet units behind the front line.

(in reply to janh)
Post #: 30
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