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RE: I dont like my union

 
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RE: I dont like my union - 5/24/2011 9:39:16 PM   
ilovestrategy


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I agree with Slick. Like I said earlier in this post, I've had to go to the union due to abusive supervision. If it wasn't for our Union my work life would have been a lot harder.

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Post #: 31
RE: I dont like my union - 5/24/2011 11:15:16 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3175
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

Unions are a good thing, per se.


Unions have been utterly corrupt almost since their inception in the US. A total lack of oversight at the top allows them to basically forcibly tax their membership and funnel those taxes (dues) anywhere the corrupt leadership sees fit to funnel it.

In the early days it was the mafia that leached on to the union funds, today itís the Democratic Party. Personally I think the politicians are far worse than the mafia ever was. At least there was some chance at accountability when it was criminals at the reigns, but now the foxes are guarding the henhouse. So what we have right now is simple bribery and theft. The unions bribe the politicians via political donations and the politicians then allow the unions to commit theft from the public coffers every chance they get by granting unreasonably absurd benefits every time they vote.

Any kind of investigation into how unions operate is swiftly shut down these days by their controlling political party. To them unions are a way of taxing people and forcing them into supporting their political careers whether they want to or not and there isnít a dam thing the union workers can do to stop them.

If a worker pitches a bitch about how his dues are being abused, heís tossed out of the union on his arse. So what we are left with is the situations we have today in America where politicians have granted the unions anything and everything they ever wanted for decades and now thereís no way to pay for the promises. But as long as the unions keep the cash flow spigot open, the politicians are willing to drive the country off a financial cliff at 100 miles an hour.

Iím not saying unions shouldnít have a right to support politicians, but if they do, then those same politicians should have to recuse themselves from voting on any legislation concerning regulating those same unions.

Union workers should also have guaranteed protections from unjust persecution from their union leadership if they try and reform the corruption within their own unions.

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 5/24/2011 11:17:47 PM >


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Post #: 32
RE: I dont like my union - 5/25/2011 12:37:26 AM   
apathetic lurker

 

Posts: 1342
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Buffalo,ny
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

Unions are a good thing, per se.


Unions have been utterly corrupt almost since their inception in the US. A total lack of oversight at the top allows them to basically forcibly tax their membership and funnel those taxes (dues) anywhere the corrupt leadership sees fit to funnel it.

In the early days it was the mafia that leached on to the union funds, today itís the Democratic Party. Personally I think the politicians are far worse than the mafia ever was. At least there was some chance at accountability when it was criminals at the reigns, but now the foxes are guarding the henhouse. So what we have right now is simple bribery and theft. The unions bribe the politicians via political donations and the politicians then allow the unions to commit theft from the public coffers every chance they get by granting unreasonably absurd benefits every time they vote.

Any kind of investigation into how unions operate is swiftly shut down these days by their controlling political party. To them unions are a way of taxing people and forcing them into supporting their political careers whether they want to or not and there isnít a dam thing the union workers can do to stop them.

If a worker pitches a bitch about how his dues are being abused, heís tossed out of the union on his arse. So what we are left with is the situations we have today in America where politicians have granted the unions anything and everything they ever wanted for decades and now thereís no way to pay for the promises. But as long as the unions keep the cash flow spigot open, the politicians are willing to drive the country off a financial cliff at 100 miles an hour.

Iím not saying unions shouldnít have a right to support politicians, but if they do, then those same politicians should have to recuse themselves from voting on any legislation concerning regulating those same unions.

Union workers should also have guaranteed protections from unjust persecution from their union leadership if they try and reform the corruption within their own unions.

Jim



Ummm.....no

I am one of the biggest bitchers at our local.Probably stems from me once running my own company. Still there..My arse has not been tossed........I wish I got unreasonably absurd benefits.....If I paid for full family medical it would cost me one weeks pay for a month of coverage through my union. My wife who is non-union(a private company), gets fully paid family medical coverage.Yeah, my union benefits so outstrip anything available to her non-union job(note sarcasm here). .The big thing separating us from the non-union part of our bus company? The management cant just fire us and we have seniority for bus runs.....Yes, our company is both union and non-union. Depends on the terminal..Guess which terminal gets very high turnover of drivers?......So no, don't go painting all unions with the same broad brush.....

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Post #: 33
RE: I dont like my union - 5/25/2011 12:53:08 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2277
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick Wilhelm

Unions are a good thing, per se.


Unions have been utterly corrupt almost since their inception in the US. A total lack of oversight at the top allows them to basically forcibly tax their membership and funnel those taxes (dues) anywhere the corrupt leadership sees fit to funnel it.

In the early days it was the mafia that leached on to the union funds, today itís the Democratic Party. Personally I think the politicians are far worse than the mafia ever was. At least there was some chance at accountability when it was criminals at the reigns, but now the foxes are guarding the henhouse. So what we have right now is simple bribery and theft. The unions bribe the politicians via political donations and the politicians then allow the unions to commit theft from the public coffers every chance they get by granting unreasonably absurd benefits every time they vote.

Any kind of investigation into how unions operate is swiftly shut down these days by their controlling political party. To them unions are a way of taxing people and forcing them into supporting their political careers whether they want to or not and there isnít a dam thing the union workers can do to stop them.

If a worker pitches a bitch about how his dues are being abused, heís tossed out of the union on his arse. So what we are left with is the situations we have today in America where politicians have granted the unions anything and everything they ever wanted for decades and now thereís no way to pay for the promises. But as long as the unions keep the cash flow spigot open, the politicians are willing to drive the country off a financial cliff at 100 miles an hour.

Iím not saying unions shouldnít have a right to support politicians, but if they do, then those same politicians should have to recuse themselves from voting on any legislation concerning regulating those same unions.

Union workers should also have guaranteed protections from unjust persecution from their union leadership if they try and reform the corruption within their own unions.

Jim


So, they can behave exactly in the same way as corrupt, abusive business? It's amazing how our world is assaulted by the forces of evil and corruption literally from all sides.

From what I've seen, unions of property valuers in Poland are very corrupt. They usually have a directorship that always wants to get the best contracts for themselves and uses unfair methods of competition. For example in my city, the local union of property valuers has corrupted the local authorities and membership in that union was mandatory for starting in auctions in it.
It was like this for over a decade until Jarosław's Kaczyński's PiS got to power and started their crusade against corruption.

My mother got barred from entering that union because she gave better offers in some auctions where the guys from directorship were also starting.
They justified it by saying that she's giving dumping prices despite that she had pretty high income from these commissions.

Another thing that they do is making opinions about property evaluations that are made for the person/company that paid for it. They write that an evaluation is wrong basing it on some completely subjective arguments and they get paid for it often more than ten times more than the cost of normal property evaluation. It's basically legalized corruption.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 5/25/2011 12:56:45 AM >


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Post #: 34
RE: I dont like my union - 5/25/2011 2:32:59 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8916
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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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Yep, they are good in theory. I wish that state government workers had a strong union, but they have been dismantled in a few states.

I can see this thread being headed towards a lockdown.

Please, Erik, do it now before it degenerates into a political bloodbath.

(in reply to Slick Wilhelm)
Post #: 35
RE: I dont like my union - 5/25/2011 4:05:19 AM   
apathetic lurker

 

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I dont think this thread needs a lockdown.....

Shame on you KG for trying to involve "management" in our nice and friendly conversation......

< Message edited by apathetic lurker -- 5/25/2011 4:11:58 AM >


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Post #: 36
RE: I dont like my union - 5/25/2011 4:34:53 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3175
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker
Ummm.....no

I am one of the biggest bitchers at our local.Probably stems from me once running my own company. Still there..My arse has not been tossed........I wish I got unreasonably absurd benefits.....If I paid for full family medical it would cost me one weeks pay for a month of coverage through my union. My wife who is non-union(a private company), gets fully paid family medical coverage.Yeah, my union benefits so outstrip anything available to her non-union job(note sarcasm here). .The big thing separating us from the non-union part of our bus company? The management cant just fire us and we have seniority for bus runs.....Yes, our company is both union and non-union. Depends on the terminal..Guess which terminal gets very high turnover of drivers?......So no, don't go painting all unions with the same broad brush.....


I'm talking about management not the union members themselves. But at the same time if you decide to turn a blind eye to the corruption in management simply because they are working to get you better benefits then perhaps some of the blame deserves to be leveled at the members themselves.

Like it or not unions are modeled on the co-op plan and co-ops never work. The one thing all co-ops have in common from tiny union locals to huge communist parties is they place all the power in the hands of their leadership and that leadership is absolute and unaccountable. And without exception that kind of uninhibited power has been corrupted throughout history.

Personally I think all hourly wages and fixed minimum wages should be abolished. Let the CEOís pay themselves whatever they want. Just pass a law that the lowest paid employee in any company cannot be paid less than 10% of the highest employees total compensation package and suddenly the adversarial relationship between management and employees becomes a partnership instead.

With a law like that there would be no need for corrupt union management and CEOs will be forced to work in the best interest of their employees by default if they want to improve their own personal portfolios. Companies that arenít doing so well wonít be forced to pay unreasonable salaries and those that are successful will pay very well indeed. And if CEOís want to cut costs by reducing salaries theyíll have to cut their own pay first in order to accomplish it, which guarantees it wonít happen unless absolutely necessary.

Jim


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Post #: 37
RE: I dont like my union - 5/25/2011 4:41:05 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3175
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
So, they can behave exactly in the same way as corrupt, abusive business?


Except for one thing. Itís the politicianís job to negotiate wage and salary benefits with the unions. And they are supposed to negotiate on behalf of the public good, not on behalf of the unions. Theyíve sold out their fiduciary responsibility to the public in the interest of furthering their own political careers.

Thatís a big difference over the corruption normally seen when big business buys politicians. Iím not saying that is acceptable either, only that one makes them morally and criminally responsible for the conditions that lead to the theft on a personal level.

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 5/25/2011 4:43:26 AM >


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Post #: 38
RE: I dont like my union - 5/25/2011 12:04:20 PM   
Greybriar


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+1 Slick Wilhelm

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Post #: 39
RE: I dont like my union - 5/25/2011 2:04:31 PM   
bairdlander

 

Posts: 1553
Joined: 3/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
So, they can behave exactly in the same way as corrupt, abusive business?


Except for one thing. Itís the politicianís job to negotiate wage and salary benefits with the unions. And they are supposed to negotiate on behalf of the public good, not on behalf of the unions. Theyíve sold out their fiduciary responsibility to the public in the interest of furthering their own political careers.

Thatís a big difference over the corruption normally seen when big business buys politicians. Iím not saying that is acceptable either, only that one makes them morally and criminally responsible for the conditions that lead to the theft on a personal level.

Jim

Politicians negotiated something called "temporary foriegn workers" which some consider modern day slavery.Whats your opinion of TFW's?I currently rent out rooms to 2 of them and they get treated like crap,lower wages then others,they were promised 40 hours a week yet get 20,before living with me they were forced to live in a house owned by thier employer ( a major US resturant chain,I wont mention) and pay double market rent to the employer.If no one stands up to these giants we could all be placed in a similiar situation.And as I said union doesnt mean a job for life,you fool around,slack off and you get laid off.Our union as well turfs people from the union if they dont go to work and slack off so its a partnership between us and the employer.A lot of what you say is "myth" and misconception.We provide a safe skilled workeforce.The compnay we are under contract to made 1.3 billion the first quarter this year so the wages we get are nothing for them.

< Message edited by bairdlander -- 5/25/2011 2:09:43 PM >

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Post #: 40
RE: I dont like my union - 5/25/2011 2:36:19 PM   
sabre1


Posts: 1928
Joined: 8/15/2001
From: CA
Status: offline
[/quote]

Unions have been utterly corrupt almost since their inception in the US. A total lack of oversight at the top allows them to basically forcibly tax their membership and funnel those taxes (dues) anywhere the corrupt leadership sees fit to funnel it.

In the early days it was the mafia that leached on to the union funds, today itís the Democratic Party. Personally I think the politicians are far worse than the mafia ever was. At least there was some chance at accountability when it was criminals at the reigns, but now the foxes are guarding the henhouse. So what we have right now is simple bribery and theft. The unions bribe the politicians via political donations and the politicians then allow the unions to commit theft from the public coffers every chance they get by granting unreasonably absurd benefits every time they vote.

Any kind of investigation into how unions operate is swiftly shut down these days by their controlling political party. To them unions are a way of taxing people and forcing them into supporting their political careers whether they want to or not and there isnít a dam thing the union workers can do to stop them.

If a worker pitches a bitch about how his dues are being abused, heís tossed out of the union on his arse. So what we are left with is the situations we have today in America where politicians have granted the unions anything and everything they ever wanted for decades and now thereís no way to pay for the promises. But as long as the unions keep the cash flow spigot open, the politicians are willing to drive the country off a financial cliff at 100 miles an hour.

Iím not saying unions shouldnít have a right to support politicians, but if they do, then those same politicians should have to recuse themselves from voting on any legislation concerning regulating those same unions.

Union workers should also have guaranteed protections from unjust persecution from their union leadership if they try and reform the corruption within their own unions.

Jim

[/quote]


Hmmmm, YES!

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 41
RE: I dont like my union - 5/25/2011 7:43:20 PM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3628
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline
Well, I don't know anything about the corruption level and I dont care. What I do know and do care about is that for me, personally, my own self, is that is that having a union at my workplace has kept my job from being contracted out and has kept me from being abused.

If corruption is the price I have to pay than so be it. The alternative for me would have been worst.

_____________________________

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

(in reply to sabre1)
Post #: 42
RE: I dont like my union - 5/25/2011 7:57:50 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Hi everyone,

Clearly a political thread, locking this up.

Regards,

- Erik


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