RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario

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RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command Ops Series >> Mods and Scenarios >> RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario

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RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario - 5/27/2011 12:42:49 AM

Lieste

Posts: 1608
Joined: 11/1/2008
Status: offline

Couldn't do what I wanted, but had some modest success with shaping the battlespace.

Give the attached map a try - it isn't pretty, and might be somewhat away from your original source, but it has a more - "flat with lumps on it" feel to the height map. The southern 'rise' could do with some additional contours to define the slopes - the underlying terrain has slope between the canal and the contour. Uses my defaults for terrain cover and visibility - these mightn't be to your taste feel free to modify, but give 'em a whirl first.

Had an interesting platoon-based action on it, which lasted most of a week, going badly for me, before the attacking AI pushed just a little too hard and got cut off :)
End result was bloody but indecisive.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Chief Rudiger)

Post #: 31

RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario - 6/25/2011 7:08:00 PM

Chief Rudiger

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline

I've been unable to find much on the other Bde's involved in the operation - Martin Lindsay of the Gordons ("So Few Got Through"), who until then is an excellent commentator, drove over a mine on the eve of the Op and only witnessed his hospital ward filling up with the wounded.

Other sources (on the Div as a whole) don't give much info on this particular battle (as it was a bit of a walk over really) and concentrate instead on events before and after, especially the redeployment to the East of the Nijmegen salient.

The German Korp commander's report in the US document linked to previously are pretty interesting - particularly on 88mm Flak batteries being easily nuetralised in the AT role - and he is pretty scathing of the allied performance during these months - "hesitation and step-by-step attack tactics" (sounds pretty true, but not necessarily wrong since we won!).

What might be interesting, but on too big a scale for me, might be a courses scale scenario on the general cleaning up of the South bank of the Maas with the German's scoring VP for just delaying the Allies.

Anyway, the website i linked to has many excel tables giving manpower and material strengths but i don't know exactly which units opposed the 51st HD, other than their division, so naming the 59th I.D Bn/Regt would just be an educated guess.

59th division
I./Gren.Rgt.1034
II./Gren.Rgt.1034
I./Gren.Rgt.1035
I./Gren.Rgt.1036
II./Gren.Rgt.1036
Fus.Btl.159
Pi.Btl. (Stab+2Kp.)
FeldErsatz Btl.159
I./Arty.Rgt.159
II./Arty.Rgt.159
III./Arty.Rgt.159
Pz.Jg.Kp.159
Fla-Kp.159

attached
I./Gren.Rgt.723
II./Gren.Rgt.723
III./Gren.Rgt.723
F.E.B.347+ KG Stens
FJ.Btl.Balzereit
I./Pol.Sich.Rgt.3
KG Gramse
KG Bloch
KG Diedrich
FJ.Kp.Schneider
Fj.kp.Brehms

Leiste: would you like to post your version of the scenario as the final version?

(in reply to Lieste)

Post #: 32

RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario - 12/2/2011 1:00:34 AM

Chief Rudiger

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline

Am going to rebuild this with the Beta Patch and re-post.

(in reply to Lieste)

Post #: 33

RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario - 12/4/2011 7:01:22 PM

Chief Rudiger

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lieste

Couldn't do what I wanted, but had some modest success with shaping the battlespace.

Give the attached map a try - it isn't pretty, and might be somewhat away from your original source, but it has a more - "flat with lumps on it" feel to the height map. The southern 'rise' could do with some additional contours to define the slopes - the underlying terrain has slope between the canal and the contour.

LOS wise I don't see any significant difference between your map and mine, based on elevation alone. I did notice however that the linear towns don't reduce LOS at all. I therefore bumped the "LOS reduction per 100m" values for Town up to ~50, like forests. This prevents you seeing "through" the villages, which you wouldn't able to do if the surrounding land was flat (or the village was on a slight sandy rise [another poster in a thread i can't find had knowledge of the geography of the area]). This should have a significant effect on the scenario.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lieste

Uses my defaults for terrain cover and visibility - these mightn't be to your taste feel free to modify, but give 'em a whirl first.

What specifically are your cover and visibility value differences?

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Lieste)

Post #: 34

RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario - 12/4/2011 7:12:59 PM

Chief Rudiger

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief Rudiger

Am going to rebuild this with the Beta Patch and re-post.

@ Anybody:

How do you change the estab in a scenario? You can change the map just by clicking on that box but not so with the estab...

Little help?

(in reply to Chief Rudiger)

Post #: 35

RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario - 12/4/2011 11:31:46 PM

Arjuna

Posts: 16458
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline

You can't change the estab of a scenario as the forces within the scenario use it.

We do not have any functionality to try and map estabs from one estab file to another, nor to handle the cases where it doesn't find a corresponding estab entry. I agree that would be useful but until I can find time to address this you will have to redo your scenario using the new estab file.

I also agree with your suggestion to have a feature that would allow you to import/export an estab item. Now that we have a number of users actually developing scenarios I think we need to move this up the list of priorities. I need to discuss the mechanics of this with Paul and see what we can do. However, being realistic, I doubt this will happening in the very near future.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Chief Rudiger)

Post #: 36

RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario - 12/4/2011 11:34:53 PM

Arjuna

Posts: 16458
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline

Chief,

How many estab items by type ( unit, vehicle, weapon, ammo, formation ) are you talking about?

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Arjuna)

Post #: 37

RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario - 12/4/2011 11:37:46 PM

Arjuna

Posts: 16458
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline

An alternate approach maybe to support multiple estab files for a given scenario ( well two at least ). In other words it would look inside any custom estab file first and then in the default BFTB estab file. This may slow the game. I need to check.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to Arjuna)

Post #: 38

RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario - 12/8/2011 4:37:32 PM

Chief Rudiger

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Chief,

How many estab items by type ( unit, vehicle, weapon, ammo, formation ) are you talking about?

My question is really related to the French and Australian units i made for my Merdjayoun Scenario. You can see, in the attached screenshot, how many unique units i've made (though the Australians are shamelessly copied from COTA). The two french units open show most of the weapon types i've made. Each obviously has its own ammo. Most are simply renamed stock items (how different is an 8mm rifle round vs. a 7.95mm?) As for vehicles, i've only made one or two tanks. I've made no changes to the formation values.

So, its not an awful lot, to be honest, and it'd pretty rapidly recreate it all if I had too, but if i can't change the estab that the scenario uses then i'll have to scrap the whole thing and start that part again too!

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Arjuna)

Post #: 39

RE: Afwaterings Canal Mini Scenario - 12/8/2011 4:39:44 PM

Chief Rudiger

Posts: 183
Joined: 7/21/2009
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

You can't change the estab of a scenario as the forces within the scenario use it.

We do not have any functionality to try and map estabs from one estab file to another, nor to handle the cases where it doesn't find a corresponding estab entry. I agree that would be useful but until I can find time to address this you will have to redo your scenario using the new estab file.

I also agree with your suggestion to have a feature that would allow you to import/export an estab item. Now that we have a number of users actually developing scenarios I think we need to move this up the list of priorities. I need to discuss the mechanics of this with Paul and see what we can do. However, being realistic, I doubt this will happening in the very near future.

It seems other users have similar questions. Might you make a dedicated, stickied topic of your own and outline how the patches effect pre-patch scenarios and estabs?

(in reply to Arjuna)

Post #: 40