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Air raids va AA

 
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Air raids va AA - 5/17/2011 8:41:24 AM   
OlegHasky

 

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A new post, as it appeares like Lieste failed to handle it.

AA relation to Air raids.

How the mechanizm work in deep.

Arjuna?..
Looks like you could be the only one to explain this.
Can you provide?
Would be great

Oleg,

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RE: Air raids va AA - 5/17/2011 10:47:32 AM   
Arjuna


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I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you wanting to know how anti-aircraft ffire affects air strikes?

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RE: Air raids va AA - 5/17/2011 6:16:08 PM   
OlegHasky

 

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Correct.

If possible, the widest/most detailed spectrum of explanation you can provide on the issue. From affectivness overall (basics) / to atomized co-relations of diffrent weapon types/units on the air raids (if this is also reflected in bftb)



< Message edited by OlegHasky -- 5/17/2011 6:28:57 PM >


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RE: Air raids va AA - 5/17/2011 10:25:08 PM   
wodin


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Oleg it will be abstracted mate...you ask way to much of the game if you think it tracks planes and AA fire in detail...it will be a basic calculation...where only talking about a couple of planes on interdiction misssions I'm sure...not carpet bombing...

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RE: Air raids va AA - 5/18/2011 4:59:53 PM   
Lieste

 

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Some bugs in the original data:

15mm Drilling (MG151/15) has AArm type accuracy data, 90%>30%, rather than "AA style" as the other weapons tend to have, 10%>15%>20%>15%>10%
50cal M2HB has AArm type accuracy data, with a data error, 90%>50%>4000% etc
50 cal (Veh) is "AA style" 10%>14%>14%>10%

Apart from these though, the rest have the low accuracy, "moderate" range effectiveness that you would expect.

Heavy FlaK is only useful at more than 3km distance to the target aircraft when it fires, light Flak is only short ranged, the medium FlaK has a 500m minimum range.

When an airstrike is called in, there is a chance to hit the aircraft (rare (except for the two erroneous weapons)), abort the strike, force it to miss the aimpoint or allow the strike to hit. The presence of more than one defending AAA position increases the proportion of missed, or aborted strikes, but equally multiple strikes called together into the same general area will overwhelm the defences. The maximum (unused/available) queue length is 20 strikes, which individually expire 30 minutes after being added, but with large numbers of sorties, there can be potential strikes that aren't immediately added if the queue is full and no strikes are ordered.

Airstrike "hit line" origin appears to be the SW corner (for Allies, possibly also for axis, but not checked), and firing from AAA batteries is marked from firing battery to aircraft strike location.

I'm not sure how many aircraft are supposed to be in a single strike, but coverage and damage caused suggest at least 4 fighter aircraft, possibly 2 medium/heavy bombers.

What would be 'nice' would be a possibility to fine tune the availability, so that the queue is 'busier' for a few hours at scenario start, or over a designated period (a few hundred sorties in a few hours, followed by a return to low availability within the same day) - the current 'all day' efforts are a bit much if more than a token effort is allowed...


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RE: Air raids va AA - 5/18/2011 6:42:44 PM   
Lieste

 

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Scaling may be an issue here - multiple AAA platoons appear to have little/no effectiveness, while a AAA company will disrupt attacks a reasonable proportion of the time, and a Bn is apparently more effective (against targets at appropriate ranges) than multiple AAA companies.

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RE: Air raids va AA - 5/18/2011 9:28:44 PM   
OlegHasky

 

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woodin,
I think playing such game without a drop of abstraction must be a painfull expierience.
In fact evry single post on "future directions" had its beginig in an ´abstract´ , and it is a silent ´demand´ itself. Including yours.

I could stad on my state cold-blooded, and repail that this was a question, not a demand.
But you are partially right i gues. I could be little to forward at the point, regarding the actual air sector in bftb.
Just it wasnt stated in a post, and I could say you are buginggg.. As this wasnt the first time youve tried to sting me lately. I understand it. I realize I musted hurt you in recen time somewhere .
Now, as youve nailed me with my secret desire on air sector I hope were even, and we will move on.

(sorry for the off-topic)

Lieste,
Fine post. I will analyse it carefully when with time. TY
Its also a good base for Arjuna to take a stance.



< Message edited by OlegHasky -- 5/18/2011 9:35:45 PM >


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RE: Air raids va AA - 5/19/2011 2:48:00 PM   
wodin


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Oleg...nothing ment mate...have nio problem with you at all....I do find it hard to understnd what your typing due to the obvious difficulty you have typing in english...but I can't speak a word of Russian (I presume your Russian or German)

No hard feelings

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RE: Air raids va AA - 5/19/2011 3:59:23 PM   
Joe D.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you wanting to know how anti-aircraft ffire affects air strikes?


Haven't I seen a msg that states "air strike driven-off on account of enemy (AAA?) fire" or words to that effect?

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RE: Air raids va AA - 5/19/2011 5:23:30 PM   
Lieste

 

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There are several messages "airstrike aborted by fire" and "strike forced off target by fire" - both only presented to the attacking player.
The aborted message is accompanied by a single 'explosion', and the missed message by the normal attack sounds.
If you are watching in 'slow' time when the attack goes in (5 minutes after targetting it), then you will see the AAA capable units fire onto the target location... which is very useful if you have additional airstrikes queued (they can hit the AAA units with lower risk, especially if there are only 1-2 AAA units in an area) or even better have DF or IDF assets within range of the AAA. They can suppress it just before the next attack is called.

If you are the recipient of airstrikes, you will only hear and see the cues, there are no messages given. Here you will see a converging cone of (grey) shot lines, with the apex on the enemy's target - the actual strike may land - either on this target, or displaced some way from it by your fires, or you will only see/hear the single defence shot and no strike.

There are no 'multiple shots' against incoming targets from longer ranged weapons, and these are impotent against an attack near their location - while presumably the attacker would have had to flown through the covered zone to reach the target - because of this, I will look at reducing the impact of the minimum range boundaries for AAA fires - a great idea if the attack is simulated, less so if it is only a snapshot.

Not at all sure if/how terrain adjusts the results of AAA and airstrikes, but it seems more effective if you have good intel on the target, even if you absolutely positively know that a hidden unit is exactly in a specific location. FWIW, I've temporarily doubled the effectiveness of the AAA units (20-40%, rather than 10-20%) but mainly to see the various 'results' more clearly. Not really sure what this should be doing (no clear image, compared to the infantry/artillery/armour ideas that I can 'feel'). The fleeting nature of both AAA and airpower in general make it quite different from the 'there' nature of the ground forces.


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