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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR

 
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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/19/2011 10:29:31 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

The last shot in post 56 I believe is a 2k map. What did you think of the extra territory?


Difficult to tell, as only about 1/4 of the map was actually fought over. I appreciate having space for flanking moves or space in general as it makes a battle less predictable in terms of where the enemy attack is likely to come from/where the enemy units are most likely to be located, but as the objectives were clustered in only a small portion of the map, I don't really have a feeling for how a battle on a 2000x2000 map would play out if the objectives would be dispersed across the entire map.

quote:

Are you interested in an early war PBEM game at some point?


At some point, certainly.

There are, as I see it, a few problems in terms of balance with early war battles that might be a problem in PBEM's. If the Germans have veteran crews in Panzer III's and the Soviets have T-26's or BT's, the Soviets are likely to lose, because they're less likely to hit their targets and even if they do hit their targets, their hits are less likely to penetrate then the German return fire because the armour on the Soviet tanks is weaker relative to the firepower of the enemy.

However, if on a wide open map, the Germans would have Panzer III's and the Soviets a few T-34's and KV-1's, the Soviets are likely to win because the Germans don't really have the means to disable them if the Soviet player can keep his distance and knows what he's doing.

There's not really a middle ground, at least not with a core like mine. You're either in a battle where superior ROF and accuracy (through the elite bonus or medals/awards) will win you a battle with a Soviet 1930's tank force, or in a battle where you're close to powerless against the handful of 1940's tanks at normal combat ranges.

It's not that the battles I'm fighting are easy per se, but as soon as the Soviet tanks and AT guns are gone, which can happen quite quickly, the battle still essentially comes down to mopping up the infantry.

When I started the campaign, I was expecting the Soviets to outnumber me 2:1 or 3:1 in tanks in most battles. That would've made things quite challenging. However, I believe I've outnumbered the Soviets in tanks in every battle thus far, or have at least had the same amount of medium tanks.

If the Soviets outnumber the Germans, they have a chance even with 1930's tanks, as they can then use some tanks to draw German fire whilst other tanks, BT's for example, race across the map to the German flank.

Currently, due to my unit placement the AI is forced into medium to long range (by 1941 standards) tank duels, which they can essentially only lose with 1930's tanks.

As soon as the Soviets get more T-34's, the upgraded 1942 model 45mm AT gun or 76.2mm AT guns and heavy tanks, the picture changes completely, even if I'd be using the best Germany has to offer at that point (Panzer IVF/2's maybe and long barreled Panzer III's) because in that scenario, basically everything the Soviets have can knock out my tanks. Currently, those T-26's or BT's can mostly dream about knocking out my tanks. Even if I would not reload a battle as soon as one of my tanks is knocked out, I'd lose at most 2 or so out of 12.

quote:

I don't think they stand much of a chance at this point with the equipment and experience they are likely to have.


Out of curiosity: what's the chance the Soviets will get T-34's or KV's at this point, in July or August?

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/19/2011 10:30:43 PM >


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(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 61
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/19/2011 11:06:01 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 32912
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
There's not really a middle ground, at least not with a core like mine. You're either in a battle where superior ROF and accuracy (through the elite bonus or medals/awards) will win you a battle with a Soviet 1930's tank force, or in a battle where you're close to powerless against the handful of 1940's tanks at normal combat ranges.


I think an early war battle with 50mm Panzer IIIs and 75mm Panzer IVs on the tank side against Soviet T-26/BTs and T-34s/KV-1 is quite interesting and balanced. The 3rd Panzer semi-random campaign does a good job of showing that too. Early war Soviet infantry really doesn't stand much of a chance against German Tanks or Infantry though.

quote:

As soon as the Soviets get more T-34's, the upgraded 1942 model 45mm AT gun or 76.2mm AT guns and heavy tanks, the picture changes completely, even if I'd be using the best Germany has to offer at that point (Panzer IVF/2's maybe and long barreled Panzer III's) because in that scenario, basically everything the Soviets have can knock out my tanks. Currently, those T-26's or BT's can mostly dream about knocking out my tanks. Even if I would not reload a battle as soon as one of my tanks is knocked out, I'd lose at most 2 or so out of 12.


I've played a ways into the 7th Panzer Campaign (finished a short version of it) and completed the 1st Panzer long campaign when I was testing Kharkov (and played well into it during Ostfront testing). There are certainly battles that will feel hopeless and be very difficult, but it is possible to get through. Once I got into Winter, there was no way for me to preserve my force. I came into Spring of 1942 at around 30-40% strength.

quote:

Out of curiosity: what's the chance the Soviets will get T-34's or KV's at this point, in July or August?


Fairly small. Starting in September, the chance starts to increase significantly.

Regards,

- Erik


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Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 62
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/19/2011 11:21:57 PM   
RedCharlie65

 

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Beautiful stuff.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 63
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/20/2011 8:28:01 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Battle 9 went well after I made sure the Soviets couldn't see any of my units. The opening barrage on the first try was rather brutal as the Katyusha's managed to hit one of my tanks every single time.

Legendary victory, one tank suffered from track damage, another one was immobilized by a hit to the engine (the 2nd HQ tank is not really lucky, it suffered from track damage 4 times thus far, but it did get its Iron Cross 2nd Class in this battle). Both were recovered.



I changed my unit placement a bit after taking this screenshot, but I forgot to take a new one. The Panzer II's were moved to the same area as my other tanks at the central flag. There's another flag further to the right, in the lower right corner of the map, but that one wasn't fought over and is as such not in the screenshot.

Red circles: T-26 M33's and a BA-10M.
Yellow circles: 45mm AT guns.
Blue circle: 122mm guns.

The plan was to let the infantry hold the western flag, whilst my tanks waited until the Soviet tanks started to move at which point 5 Panzer 38(t)E's would be ordered to move into the orchard and the 2 HQ Panzer 38(t)E's would move along the eastern edge of the orchard to hopefully catch the enemy as they were moving towards the western flag, exposing their sides to my tanks in the orchard. It was a bit risky, but it worked. I could've simply waited until they showed up near the flags, but this was more interesting. The plan worked as intended, the majority of the T-26 M33's were shot in the side of the hull as they moved along the orchard.



My tanks move into the orchard to catch the enemy tanks in the flank as they move towards the western flag. This was a bit risky as my tanks started to attract the attention of a number of AT guns, but those were dealt with after the Soviet tanks were destroyed.



A T-26 M33 brews up moments after the infantry riding on the tank was killed.



The end. It seems there were two 122mm guns on the battlefield, but they presumably couldn't see anything. It was a short, intense battle.

Core:

1/1/2-6 PzG /1 Close Combat Bar (Bronze), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Rifle squad.
/2 Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), Close Combat Bar (Bronze).
/3: Close Combat Bar (Bronze).

Transports: /1 Veteran Driver.
/2 Veteran Driver.
/3 nothing.

1/1-37 Aufklaerung /1: Veteran Driver
/2: Wound Badge (Black), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Maxim crew, 2 Rifle squads and 1 50mm mortar team.

HQ 3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver) and Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 23 Rifle squads, 4 50mm mortar teams, 8 Maxim crews, 4 45mm AT gun crew, 2 BT-7's, 2 BA-10M's, 2 DShK 39 crews, 2 BT-5's, 1 T-26S M39 and 1 BA-6.
/2: Wound Badge (Black), Wound Badge (Silver), Panzer Ace, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Gold), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Iron Cross 2nd Class, killed 24 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 3 Maxim crews, 4 50mm mortar teams, 1 AT Rifle squad, 2 BA-10M's, 3 BT-7's, 3 BT-5's, 1 122mm gun, 3 45mm AT guns, 2 Flamethrower squads, 1 BA-6, 3 BT-7M's and 1 T-26 M33.

2/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and Iron Cross 2nd Class, killed 16 Rifle squads, 2 45mm AT gun crews, 1 50mm mortar crew, 2 T-26 M33's, 1 truck, 1 Maxim crew and 1 AT Rifle squad.
/2: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, German Cross (Gold), Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Ace and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 24 Rifle squads, 3 T-26 M39's, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 6 Maxim crews, 2 BT-7's, 1 45mm AT gun crew, 2 AT Rifle squads, 1 BA-10M, 3 T-26 M33's, 2 DShK 39 crews and 3 50mm mortar teams.
/3: Wound Badge (Black), Veteran Driver, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class and War Merit Cross 2nd Class, killed 21 Rifle squads, 3 Maxim crews, 1 BT-7, 4 45mm AT gun crews, 1 BT-7M, 2 DShK crews, 1 BA-3, 1 KV-2 M41, 1 AT Rifle squad, 1 Sniper team and 2 T-26 M33's.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver), Veteran Driver, Panzer Ace and Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 1 T-26 M39, 22 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 2 BT-7's, 4 Maxim crews, 2 AT Rifle squads, 4 45mm AT gun crews, 3 T-26 M33's, 4 DShK crews, 1 BT-7M, 1 F-22, 1 BA-10M, 1 50mm mortar team, 1 BA-10, 1 T-26 M33, 2 BT-5's.
/5: Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 1st Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Silver) and Panzer Ace, killed 23 Rifle squads, 1 BA-6, 3 AT Rifle squads, 4 Maxim crews, 1 BA-3, 2 BT-7M's, 4 T-26 M33 and 1 45mm AT gun crew.

1/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment /1: Iron Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 17 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew and 1 Maxim crew.
/2: War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 11 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew and 1 Maxim crew.
/3: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 13 Rifle squad and 2 Maxim crews.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver and Iron Cross 2nd Class, killed 13 Rifle squads, 2 Sniper teams, 1 BA-10, 1 Maxim crew and 1 BT-7M.
/5: Iron Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Knights Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class, Wound Badge (Black) and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 16 Rifle squads, 1 Sniper team, 3 50mm mortar teams and 1 Maxim crew.

Medal/award/ability bonanza for 2/3/2-25 Panzer/2: Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Ace and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver). 1/3/2-25 Panzer/2 is the only tank without an Iron Cross currently.

The next battle takes place a few days after this one. The battle uses a map situated in Germany, as the text hovering above the map gives directions to Seelow and Berlin. Oddly, the village in the center is called Ludwigslust. That's not logical as the only Ludwigslust I know is located south of Schwerin, well to the northwest of Berlin (aside from it being peculiar that I'm already fighting in Germany, but that's due to the random maps I guess).

-

The sighting system continues to produce some oddities. When I click on a unit, and an enemy unit is shown, it can't always be targeted. If it can't be targeted, it usually drops out of sight in the next phase.

Also: if you target an area attack directly at the position of an enemy unit that the unit can't see but that is present on that location, it seems the unit will ignore the order (from time to time). I've had a few instances where I ordered my tanks to fire HE shells at an AT gun position, only to have some of them change their target as their first action of the phase.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/21/2011 11:50:54 AM >


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Post #: 64
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/20/2011 8:41:25 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Congratulations again. The recovery rolls are definitely going your way as well. Nice flanking move through the orchard. Catching moving T-26s on the flank is a great way to guarantee a decisive result.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
The next battle takes place a few days after this one. The battle uses a map situated in Germany, as the text hovering above the map gives directions to Seelow and Berlin. Oddly, the village in the center is called Ludwigslust. That's not logical as the only Ludwigslust I know is located south of Schwerin, well to the northwest of Berlin (aside from it being peculiar that I'm already fighting in Germany, but that's due to the random maps I guess).


Yes, whoops. We probably should make a version of that map without the landmarks for the random campaigns. We included some maps in the random campaign pool because they were too good to leave out, but apologies for the suspension of disbelief required in this case. I'll see if we can adjust that for the first update.

Regards,

- Erik

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(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 65
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/20/2011 8:45:32 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

The recovery rolls are definitely going your way as well.


Most of the time, only 1 track is hit. I've only had 1 immobilizing hit thus far, the one in this battle. The other hits where a tank was immobilized were due to 2 track hits.

I agree that the rolls are going my way, but I'd say it's realistic that tanks with track damage are recovered if a battle is won and the enemy is (presumably) driven off the field. No critical systems within the tank are damaged, after all.

In case you missed the edit to my previous post:
quote:

The sighting system continues to produce some oddities. When I click on a unit, and an enemy unit is shown, it can't always be targeted. If it can't be targeted, it usually drops out of sight in the next phase.

Also: if you target an area attack directly at the position of an enemy unit that the unit can't see but that is present on that location, it seems the unit will ignore the order (from time to time). I've had a few instances where I ordered my tanks to fire HE shells at an AT gun position, only to have some of them change their target as their first action of the phase.


< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/20/2011 8:46:31 PM >


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Post #: 66
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/20/2011 8:49:04 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
I agree that the rolls are going my way, but I'd say it's realistic that tanks with track damage are recovered if a battle is won and the enemy is (presumably) driven off the field. No critical systems within the tank are damaged, after all.


That's very true and the chance of recovering a tank with just a track hit is very high by design. Recovering from a mobility hit is less likely though and eventually your tanks will get beat up enough that one of those track hits will result in a scrapped tank. I hope that doesn't happen for a long while though!

quote:

In case you missed the edit to my previous post: The sighting system continues to produce some oddities. When I click on a unit, and an enemy unit is shown, it can't always be targeted. If it can't be targeted, it usually drops out of sight in the next phase.


I would love to see a save file that duplicates that issue if you have it. We did make some changes to the line of sight system in the last few builds before release and it's certainly possible there is a bug or two remaining.

quote:

Also: if you target an area attack directly at the position of an enemy unit that the unit can't see but that is present on that location, it seems the unit will ignore the order (from time to time). I've had a few instances where I ordered my tanks to fire HE shells at an AT gun position, only to have some of them change their target as their first action of the phase.


I noticed that as well, we're having a look at Area Fire for the first update. This and the LOS issue you mentioned could be connected as well.

Regards,

- Erik


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Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 67
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/20/2011 9:08:55 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

nd eventually your tanks will get beat up enough that one of those track hits will result in a scrapped tank


Yes, I already try to keep my tank movement within sensible limits, I won't charge across half the map in rush mode. I usually take my time, sort of role-playing that I also need to make sure my tanks get through a battle in good shape from a mechanical perspective.

As an aside: I seem to recall that the Germans frequently lost more tanks to breakdowns than to enemy fire in the early stages of Barbarossa, mostly due to the bad roads, overcomplicated design of vulnerable areas (such as interleaving road wheels) and lack of immediate availability of spare parts because there were both many parts and many different tank designs in use.

Of course, the Soviets had the same problem in many cases, as even though a tank like the T-34 was reliable, its components were often of a mediocre to bad quality and it still suffered from moving on bad roads. I recall a post from someone detailing the build-up for operation Star/Gallop, where the Tank corps and Tank brigades that were soon ordered to attack in the direction of Kharkov suffered from serious numbers of breakdowns, reducing their amount of operational tanks to a minimum.

-

quote:

I would love to see a save file that duplicates that issue if you have it.


I'll keep an eye out for the issue and will try to get a save where it can be duplicated.

quote:

we're having a look at Area Fire for the first update


I've also had cases where, during targeting for area fire, a red line to a target area appears, but when I actually click on the target area a grey line appears, indicating it's an invalid target, even though the targeting line is red.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/20/2011 9:10:02 PM >


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Post #: 68
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/20/2011 10:03:42 PM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
Also: if you target an area attack directly at the position of an enemy unit that the unit can't see but that is present on that location, it seems the unit will ignore the order (from time to time). I've had a few instances where I ordered my tanks to fire HE shells at an AT gun position, only to have some of them change their target as their first action of the phase.
Do you have an example save of this?
And was this changed to area fire in the Orders phase or the Reaction phase, if you know?

I think some of these incidents are because the firer loses sight of the target. The relative sighting function takes into account the motion or the firing of the target. It that changes in the next phase the function recalculates the ability of the firer to see the target. So if the target is no longer moving or firing it may not be an acquired target any longer.

< Message edited by Mobius -- 5/20/2011 10:15:00 PM >

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 69
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/20/2011 10:56:59 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

Do you have an example save of this?


I'll try to get save where it can be repeated.

quote:

And was this changed to area fire in the Orders phase or the Reaction phase, if you know?


I'm not sure if it only happened during one type of phase or during both.

quote:

I think some of these incidents are because the firer loses sight of the target. The relative sighting function takes into account the motion or the firing of the target. It that changes in the next phase the function recalculates the ability of the firer to see the target. So if the target is no longer moving or firing it may not be an acquired target any longer.


The previous phase had already ended, as I was able to give orders for the new one, so the only way the target would be able to disappear is if a sighting check is made directly after the action part of a phase starts, which would be odd as you give orders based on what is known at the start of the phase. I've literally had targets disappear on me a split second after I started the phase, even though they were visible at the start of the phase.

I've also had instances where, without a unit selected, I could see less enemy units in total than the combined total of what all of my units could see, as on more than one occasion, one of my units could see targets that did not appear on the map without any units selected. Those targets also tended to disappear from sight a moment after starting the phase, unless they moved and were thus presumably also in LOS at the first sighting check.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/20/2011 10:59:23 PM >


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Post #: 70
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/20/2011 11:21:36 PM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
The previous phase had already ended, as I was able to give orders for the new one, so the only way the target would be able to disappear is if a sighting check is made directly after the action part of a phase starts, which would be odd as you give orders based on what is known at the start of the phase. I've literally had targets disappear on me a split second after I started the phase, even though they were visible at the start of the phase.
This would be logical if you were spotting moving targets. The enemy doesn't stop moving until it is ordered to stop. So if the spotted units was moving last phase then received orders to Defend or Engage they would stop. Only then would the sighting calculation use the stationary factor and not the moving factor.


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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/21/2011 8:46:00 AM   
spellir74

 

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Great AAR.

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 72
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/21/2011 11:50:08 AM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

This would be logical if you were spotting moving targets. The enemy doesn't stop moving until it is ordered to stop. So if the spotted units was moving last phase then received orders to Defend or Engage they would stop. Only then would the sighting calculation use the stationary factor and not the moving factor.


Ah, so that's WAD then? It makes planning more difficult from time to time if targets disappear from sight directly after giving an order to engage it.

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Post #: 73
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/21/2011 3:46:56 PM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
quote:

This would be logical if you were spotting moving targets. The enemy doesn't stop moving until it is ordered to stop. So if the spotted units was moving last phase then received orders to Defend or Engage they would stop. Only then would the sighting calculation use the stationary factor and not the moving factor.

Ah, so that's WAD then? It makes planning more difficult from time to time if targets disappear from sight directly after giving an order to engage it.
Maybe they could change the sighting function to make it harder to lose sight of a target that the firer is fixated on. But it would be at the expense of sighting things to the sides and rear.


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Post #: 74
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/21/2011 4:26:17 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Battle 10 was more like a massacre than a battle.

It featured the combat debut of the T-34/76 M41 (albeit only one), but unfortunately for the Soviets, also the combat debut of the FlaK 36 and the two 88mm's butchered the Soviet tanks before they had much of an idea as to what was going on. The T-34 was burning within 10 seconds on turn 1, the second 88mm shell being fired at it hit it and it brewed up. This is also the first battle where most enemy tanks brewed up, as opposed to being abandoned after suffering from damage or crew casualties. I guess that's due to the power of the 88mm.

The FlaK 36's destroyed all armoured vehicles, my tanks didn't score a single tank or AFV kill.

As an aside: the FlaK 36 has no unit description in its unit details.

My support consisted of 4 105mm's as artillery support, 2 FlaK 36's and 2 Sd.Kfz. 231's.

Time limit was 27 turns.

Legendary victory, no damage to my tanks.



Red circles: 45mm AT guns.
Yellow circle: 2 BA-10M's.
Blue circle: T-34/76 M41.
Purple circle: 8 BT-7M's.

This was a risky deployment if the enemy had artillery (they had 120mm mortars and two Katyusha's according to the final review, but nothing showed up), but I wanted to try it. The 88's are in light woods and can see the battlefield areas where the Soviet tanks are, they're in an excellent overwatch position. They're the two units east of my tanks.

The plan was for the HQ tanks to move around the town on the eastern flank and head for the second flag on the other side of the map as soon as the BT-7M's were destroyed, whilst the other 10 tanks would move into the field in front of them first and then wheel towards the right and move towards the first flag, moving around the town just in case some or all of the buildings were occupied by infantry.



The T-34 after a few seconds, it barely had time to turn around.



What my tanks saw as they moved towards the road next to the setup area. I felt sorry for calling down a 105mm barrage on them.



BT-7M's on turn 3, there's only 1 left.



Turn 11. The HQ tanks will soon be held up by a number of AT Rifle squads in heavy woods to their right, whilst my other tanks move into the field. They spend the first few turns firing at all the infantry. My second artillery barrage of the battle is directed at the remaining AT gun in the woods beyond the field.



The end on turn 20, it turned out that I didn't need to capture the second flag to win. The third barrage of the battle that I called in on the AT Rifle squads didn't have time to arrive.

Core:

1/1/2-6 PzG /1 Close Combat Bar (Bronze), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Rifle squad.
/2 Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), Close Combat Bar (Bronze).
/3: Close Combat Bar (Bronze), Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze).

Transports: /1 Veteran Driver.
/2 Veteran Driver.
/3 nothing.

1/1-37 Aufklaerung /1: Veteran Driver
/2: Wound Badge (Black), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Maxim crew, 2 Rifle squads and 1 50mm mortar team.

HQ 3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver) and Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 23 Rifle squads, 4 50mm mortar teams, 8 Maxim crews, 4 45mm AT gun crew, 2 BT-7's, 2 BA-10M's, 2 DShK 39 crews, 2 BT-5's, 1 T-26S M39, 1 BA-6 and 1 AT Rifle squad.
/2: Wound Badge (Black), Wound Badge (Silver), Panzer Ace, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Gold), War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 26 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 3 Maxim crews, 4 50mm mortar teams, 1 AT Rifle squad, 2 BA-10M's, 3 BT-7's, 3 BT-5's, 1 122mm gun, 4 45mm AT guns, 2 Flamethrower squads, 1 BA-6, 3 BT-7M's and 1 T-26 M33.

2/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class and Panzer Ace, killed 22 Rifle squads, 2 45mm AT gun crews, 1 50mm mortar crew, 2 T-26 M33's, 1 truck, 1 Maxim crew, 1 AT Rifle squad and 1 Sniper squad.
/2: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, German Cross (Gold), Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Ace, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and Veteran Driver, killed 29 Rifle squads, 3 T-26 M39's, 2 76mm infantry gun crews, 6 Maxim crews, 2 BT-7's, 1 45mm AT gun crew, 2 AT Rifle squads, 1 BA-10M, 3 T-26 M33's, 2 DShK 39 crews and 3 50mm mortar teams.
/3: Wound Badge (Black), Veteran Driver, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 22 Rifle squads, 3 Maxim crews, 1 BT-7, 4 45mm AT gun crews, 1 BT-7M, 2 DShK crews, 1 BA-3, 1 KV-2 M41, 1 AT Rifle squad, 1 Sniper team and 2 T-26 M33's.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver), Veteran Driver, Panzer Ace, Iron Cross 1st Class and War Merit Cross 1st Class, killed 1 T-26 M39, 27 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 2 BT-7's, 4 Maxim crews, 2 AT Rifle squads, 5 45mm AT gun crews, 3 T-26 M33's, 4 DShK crews, 1 BT-7M, 1 F-22, 1 BA-10M, 1 50mm mortar team, 1 BA-10, 1 T-26 M33, 2 BT-5's.
/5: Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 1st Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Silver) and Panzer Ace, killed 27 Rifle squads, 1 BA-6, 3 AT Rifle squads, 4 Maxim crews, 1 BA-3, 2 BT-7M's, 4 T-26 M33 and 2 45mm AT gun crews.

1/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment /1: Iron Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 19 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew and 1 Maxim crew.
/2: War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 12 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew and 1 Maxim crew.
/3: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 14 Rifle squad and 2 Maxim crews.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver and Iron Cross 2nd Class, killed 14 Rifle squads, 2 Sniper teams, 1 BA-10, 1 Maxim crew and 1 BT-7M.
/5: Iron Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Knights Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class, Wound Badge (Black) and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 16 Rifle squads, 1 Sniper team, 3 50mm mortar teams and 3 Maxim crews.

Non-core:

105mm's /1: Iron Cross 2nd Class, killed 1 45mm AT gun, 1 Rifle squad and 1 Flamethrower squad.
/2: Killed 2 Sniper squads.
/3: Killed 1 Rifle squad, 1 76mm infantry gun.
/4: nothing.

88mm's /1: Killed 1 BA-10M, 3 BT-7M's.
/2: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, killed 1 T34/76 M41, 1 BA-10M, 5 BT-7M's and 3 Rifle squads.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/21/2011 4:30:17 PM >


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Post #: 75
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/21/2011 8:18:10 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Battle 11, fought on the 30th of August, went well, it wasn't a difficult one as the Soviets had little AT capabilities. It was their worst loss thus far, with only a 7% score.

Legendary victory, no damage to my tanks.

The Soviets did have an F-22 that could've caused plenty of damage, but I outflanked it and it was destroyed before it could cause damage.



Red circle: 2 T-26 M33's.
Yellow circle: 4 BT-7's.
Blue circle: F-22.

The plan was to send all of my tanks towards the first objective, using the terrain as cover as the upper half of the map is higher than my starting position, which obstructs the Soviet view and then send the to attack the other flag from the rear. I ended up surprising both groups of tanks, which were positioned to deal with an attack coming up from the hill in front of them, whilst I was coming from their flank as I had already moved up the hill near the edge of the map. The HQ tanks cleaned up the infantry around the first objective, whilst the other tanks moved on.



Turn 10. Left to right: the 2 HQ tanks, 5 Panzer IIB's and 5 Panzer 38(t)'s. I'm not entirely sure whether the last group of tanks had already destroyed the BT-7's at that point.



Panzer 38(t)E's gunning down Soviet infantry.



Panzer IIB's gunning down Soviet infantry.



Foreground: Panzer IIB's dealing with the remaining Soviet infantry. Background: 5 Panzer 38(t)E's that are about to face the F-22 and will soon move into the woods to the last flag. They were charged by Soviet infantry, but the infantry was all cut down by machineguns.



The end on turn 25.

With ammo levels at 87%, running out of ammunition is a bigger problem in battles like this than the Soviet defenses.

Core:

1/1/2-6 PzG /1 Close Combat Bar (Bronze), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Rifle squad.
/2 Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), Close Combat Bar (Bronze).
/3: Close Combat Bar (Bronze), Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Rifle squad.

Transports: /1 Veteran Driver.
/2 Veteran Driver.
/3 nothing.

1/1-37 Aufklaerung /1: Veteran Driver
/2: Wound Badge (Black), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Maxim crew, 2 Rifle squads and 1 50mm mortar team.

HQ 3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 1st Class and German Cross (Gold), killed 31 Rifle squads, 4 50mm mortar teams, 8 Maxim crews, 4 45mm AT gun crew, 2 BT-7's, 2 BA-10M's, 2 DShK 39 crews, 2 BT-5's, 1 T-26S M39, 1 BA-6 and 1 AT Rifle squad.
/2: Wound Badge (Black), Wound Badge (Silver), Panzer Ace, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Gold), War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 33 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 3 Maxim crews, 4 50mm mortar teams, 1 AT Rifle squad, 2 BA-10M's, 3 BT-7's, 3 BT-5's, 1 122mm gun, 4 45mm AT guns, 2 Flamethrower squads, 1 BA-6, 3 BT-7M's and 2 T-26 M33's.

2/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class and Panzer Ace, killed 23 Rifle squads, 2 45mm AT gun crews, 3 50mm mortar crews, 3 T-26 M33's, 1 truck, 1 Maxim crew, 1 AT Rifle squad and 1 Sniper squad.
/2: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, German Cross (Gold), Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Ace, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and Veteran Driver, killed 38 Rifle squads, 3 T-26 M39's, 2 76mm infantry gun crews, 6 Maxim crews, 2 BT-7's, 1 45mm AT gun crew, 2 AT Rifle squads, 1 BA-10M, 3 T-26 M33's, 3 DShK 39 crews and 5 50mm mortar teams.
/3: Wound Badge (Black), Veteran Driver, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 26 Rifle squads, 3 Maxim crews, 1 BT-7, 4 45mm AT gun crews, 1 BT-7M, 2 DShK crews, 1 BA-3, 1 KV-2 M41, 1 AT Rifle squad, 1 Sniper team, 2 T-26 M33's and 2 50mm mortar teams.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver), Veteran Driver, Panzer Ace, Iron Cross 1st Class and War Merit Cross 1st Class, killed 1 T-26 M39, 30 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 3 BT-7's, 4 Maxim crews, 2 AT Rifle squads, 5 45mm AT gun crews, 3 T-26 M33's, 4 DShK crews, 1 BT-7M, 2 F-22's, 2 BA-10M's, 1 50mm mortar team, 1 BA-10, 1 T-26 M33, 2 BT-5's.
/5: Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 1st Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Silver), Panzer Ace and War Merit Cross 2nd Class, killed 33 Rifle squads, 1 BA-6, 3 AT Rifle squads, 4 Maxim crews, 1 BA-3, 2 BT-7M's, 4 T-26 M33, 2 45mm AT gun crews, 1 50mm mortar team and 2 BT-7's.

1/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment /1: Iron Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver and War Merit Cross 2nd Class, killed 20 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew and 1 Maxim crew.
/2: War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 12 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew and 1 Maxim crew.
/3: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Veteran Driver, killed 16 Rifle squad and 2 Maxim crews.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, Iron Cross 2nd Class and Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 18 Rifle squads, 2 Sniper teams, 1 BA-10, 1 Maxim crew and 1 BT-7M.
/5: Iron Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Knights Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and Panzer Ace, killed 19 Rifle squads, 1 Sniper team, 3 50mm mortar teams and 3 Maxim crews.

The next battle also takes place on the 30th of August (busy day for 7th Panzer). I have Stuka and mortar support, and a T-34/76 M41 is visible during setup, so there are probably more. Let's hope the Stuka pilots are more interested in hitting tanks in this battle than in previous battles (preferably not my own tanks either).

In 11 battles, about a Rifle division worth of Rifle squads has been destroyed.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/21/2011 8:23:27 PM >


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Post #: 76
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/21/2011 8:35:36 PM   
Mad Russian


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Are you playing these as they come? Blind? A one time play through?

Good Hunting.

MR


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Post #: 77
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/21/2011 8:42:36 PM   
ComradeP

 

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If a tank is destroyed or a crew member is injured, I'll restart the battle or go back to a save near the start of the battle. That isn't necessary in all battles though, I primarily need to reload when there's artillery involved.

The last two battles generally just went well from the start, though, no restarting required.

I know that the main challenge will come in autumn/winter and that these battles are still in the happy times. It's during those battles when battles become a real puzzle, because my forces are not equipped well enough to deal with T-34's at normal combat ranges.

As I detailed before, there just isn't much the Soviets can do to stop me when their tanks and AT assets are knocked out and in many battles, those are knocked out in just a few turns.

If I would've played this without reloading when I suffered core losses, I would've lost about half a dozen core tanks now, mostly due to artillery.

As said before, to me every battle is a puzzle, and as I'm a perfectionist, I'll try to find the best solution to the puzzle. In tactical games, the challenge for me is not winning, but winning without losses. Thus far, due to the Soviet unit and equipment quality, that hasn't been too difficult thus far, but that will all change soon.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/21/2011 8:45:53 PM >


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Post #: 78
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/21/2011 8:52:38 PM   
Mad Russian


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That works. I was just thinking these battles were way too easy if you keep getting Legendary Victories without taking ANY losses.

For me the perfection would come at the end. I would play it all the way through with actual losses then try to best that score in later attempts. But we all play differently and PCO caters to that.

I wish you luck in the later battles.

Good Hunting.

MR


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Post #: 79
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/21/2011 9:27:52 PM   
junk2drive


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Joined: 6/27/2002
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Status: online
quote:

As an aside: the FlaK 36 has no unit description in its unit details.


Fixed for update.

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Post #: 80
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/21/2011 10:24:56 PM   
RedCharlie65

 

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Really enjoying this AAR! Thank you for the close in screenshots as well.

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Post #: 81
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/21/2011 10:57:23 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

For me the perfection would come at the end. I would play it all the way through with actual losses then try to best that score in later attempts. But we all play differently and PCO caters to that.


I prefer to "puzzle" my way through battles because, to me, it's also the best way to learn the game. The last two battles didn't require restarts because by now, after over a week of experience with the game, I have a good feeling for what my tanks can and can't do, which should help me in later battles.

If I would play with losses, and would take half a dozen or so (including bad luck like friendly fire from air strikes or artillery hitting just the right spot), the later battles would obviously be more difficult, but it would feel "wrong" to me, as I try to keep puzzling until nothing goes badly wrong, which is also why the battle with the Matilda's took me a while to complete.

It's a bit like those chess problems you sometimes see in newspapers. To me it's not about winning, it's about how that victory is achieved. The road to the victory is more important to me than the victory.

In wargames, you also can't keep rolling the dice for that natural 20 (well, you could hope for a critical hit, but that's about it). You do need a plan that can work, because if a plan can't work, it won't work no matter how often you reload.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/21/2011 10:59:54 PM >


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Post #: 82
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/22/2011 1:50:14 AM   
Mad Russian


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I'm fine with your gaming style. I was just concerned that the campaigns may be too easy since you kept getting Legendary Victories.

From my gaming perspective it's all about the plan as well. Knowing that from the first shot the original plan is worthless and how I adjust to the changing circumstances to see if I can still force my will to events to gain the same objectives the original plan had.

Two very different gaming styles.

But that's okay because PCO will easily accommodate both styles. It will be interesting to see how you do in later battles.

Good Hunting.

MR


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Post #: 83
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/22/2011 12:08:33 PM   
ComradeP

 

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I'll make this a separate post.

Tricky battle, what might be bugged air support (still only hitting infantry, not guns or tanks) and the overriding orders issue where if you target the position of an enemy unit, a unit will change its orders didn't make the battle easier. I was too frustrated to make a saved game of the last issue, so that's still pending.

The air support might've worked in the release version you tested, but I still haven't seen air strikes targeted at enemy tanks or directly at guns.

I also ran into what is presumably a corruption of post-battle results, as it seems my units were credited with their kills in this battle and in the previous one. I'm hoping it won't happen again. That probably explains why I got 3 Knight's Crosses because some units had a very impressive amount of kills.

2/3/2-25 Panzer/4's crew is the first tank crew to have all possible medals, awards and abilities, after getting Wound Badge (Gold), Knight's Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class and German Cross (Gold) in this battle.

The next battle will take place on the 10th of September, in a snow storm, so weather in random campaigns is a bit funny too (I encountered my fair share of muddy terrain in summer as well).

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/22/2011 12:10:02 PM >


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RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/22/2011 12:46:10 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP
Tricky battle, what might be bugged air support (still only hitting infantry, not guns or tanks) and the overriding orders issue where if you target the position of an enemy unit, a unit will change its orders didn't make the battle easier. I was too frustrated to make a saved game of the last issue, so that's still pending.


Meaning where you said you were targeting, then losing line of sight and having them re-target on their own? We're checking air support and this for the first update to see if there's an issue we can fix.

quote:

The air support might've worked in the release version you tested, but I still haven't seen air strikes targeted at enemy tanks or directly at guns.


That's certainly odd as that's what they mainly targeted during testing, but we'll figure it out.

quote:

I also ran into what is presumably a corruption of post-battle results, as it seems my units were credited with their kills in this battle and in the previous one. I'm hoping it won't happen again. That probably explains why I got 3 Knight's Crosses because some units had a very impressive amount of kills.


Meaning a doubling of the kill count? I'm very concerned to hear that and have played dozens of random campaign battles without seeing any corruption like that. Did you have any save file that showed this, or a save file from the battle before it happened? Sorry to keep asking, I don't want you to feel like a tester I just want to be responsive to any perceived issues.

quote:

2/3/2-25 Panzer/4's crew is the first tank crew to have all possible medals, awards and abilities, after getting Wound Badge (Gold), Knight's Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class and German Cross (Gold) in this battle.


That's quite impressive.

quote:

The next battle will take place on the 10th of September, in a snow storm, so weather in random campaigns is a bit funny too (I encountered my fair share of muddy terrain in summer as well).


We'll push back the earliest date for the winter maps a bit.

Regards,

- Erik


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Post #: 85
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/22/2011 12:49:26 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Legendary victory, presumably only barely as I ended with 80% score and the Soviets with 20% (they had mostly infantry left, though). One mobility kill, and track damage on a HQ tank which made me fear it could not be recovered, but it was recovered, and two tanks suffered from single track hits. Those were also recovered.

This is the second battle where I get messages about Soviet units surrendering or abandoning their equipment, previously I wasn't informed of that.

Those who played the bootcamp campaign or watched Erik's video of the first mission will recognize the map.



The start, with a black arrow showing the planned route of advance.

Red circle: 3 T-34's.
Yellow circles: 76mm infantry guns.
Green circle: BA-10M and T-26 M39.
Purple circle: F-22.

One of the HQ tanks would soon have its engine knocked out by a T-34, so the HQ tanks spend most of the battle in the woods where the first arrow is (as seen from the starting position), the Panzer IIB's spend most of the battle in reserve behind them, as I didn't want to expose them. The 5 Panzer 38(t)E's moved to the church and the other objectives, splitting up to cover the flanks as indicated by the arrows.

The original plan was a wide flanking move along the western edge of the map, but the presence of 76mm infantry guns in buildings made that impossible, so I had to make a new plan.

I used my mortars to place smoke between me and the T-34's, which allowed my tanks to get closer to them to a distance from where their AP and APCR shells had a better chance of penetrating the armour of the T-34's.



Turn 20. My tanks are still slowly trying to get moving, disabling the 76mm infantry guns and T-34's one by one.



All T-34's were finally destroyed on turn 20. One had been destroyed almost immediately after the start of the battle by a side hull hit, another one was damaged and had damaged tracks, which somehow caused it to twist around a bit. It eventually ended up being shot in the rear hull for some reason. The final one took 4(!) damaging hits and a track hit or two before being destroyed (shown as abandoned). They were green, so I can only wonder what will happen in battles where they're veteran or elite.



Turn 30, the church has been secured and two tanks move up to the final objective. Two tanks on the flank are having a duel with some AT Riflemen in a building.



The end on turn 36.



Panzer IIB in the process of killing a Soviet unit.



A nice shot of the terrain and a Panzer 38(t)E, with my tanks advancing on the church in the background to the right. In my opinion, the model of the Panzer38(t)E is quite pretty.

To be safe, I substracted the kills from the previous battle from the kill totals of my units in this battle, due to the probable corruption mentioned in the previous post.

Core:

1/1/2-6 PzG /1 Close Combat Bar (Bronze), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Rifle squad.
/2 Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), Close Combat Bar (Bronze).
/3: Close Combat Bar (Bronze), Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Rifle squad.

Transports: /1 Veteran Driver.
/2 Veteran Driver.
/3 nothing.

1/1-37 Aufklaerung /1: Veteran Driver
/2: Wound Badge (Black), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Maxim crew, 2 Rifle squads and 1 50mm mortar team.

HQ 3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 1st Class, German Cross (Gold), Wound Badge (Gold) and Panzer Ace, killed 32 Rifle squads, 4 50mm mortar teams, 8 Maxim crews, 4 45mm AT gun crew, 2 BT-7's, 2 BA-10M's, 2 DShK 39 crews, 2 BT-5's, 1 T-26S M39, 1 BA-6 and 2 AT Rifle squads.
/2: Wound Badge (Black), Wound Badge (Silver), Panzer Ace, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Gold), War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and War Merit Cross 1st Class, killed 37 Rifle squads, 4 76mm infantry gun crew, 3 Maxim crews, 4 50mm mortar teams, 1 AT Rifle squad, 2 BA-10M's, 3 BT-7's, 3 BT-5's, 1 122mm gun, 5 45mm AT guns, 2 Flamethrower squads, 1 BA-6, 3 BT-7M's, 2 T-26 M33's, 1 T34/76 M41 and 1 Sniper squad.

2/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Panzer Ace and Knight's Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 25 Rifle squads, 2 45mm AT gun crews, 3 50mm mortar crews, 3 T-26 M33's, 1 truck, 2 Maxim crews, 1 AT Rifle squad, 1 Sniper squad, 1 T34/76 M41 and 1 F-22.
/2: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, German Cross (Gold), Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Ace, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and Veteran Driver, killed 39 Rifle squads, 3 T-26 M39's, 2 76mm infantry gun crews, 6 Maxim crews, 2 BT-7's, 1 45mm AT gun crew, 2 AT Rifle squads, 1 BA-10M, 3 T-26 M33's, 4 DShK 39 crews, 5 50mm mortar teams and 1 Sniper squad.
/3: Wound Badge (Black), Veteran Driver, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 29 Rifle squads, 4 Maxim crews, 1 BT-7, 4 45mm AT gun crews, 1 BT-7M, 2 DShK crews, 1 BA-3, 1 KV-2 M41, 1 AT Rifle squad, 1 Sniper team, 2 T-26 M33's and 2 50mm mortar teams.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver), Veteran Driver, Panzer Ace, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, Wound Badge (Gold), Knight's Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class and German Cross (Gold), killed 1 T-26 M39, 32 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 3 BT-7's, 4 Maxim crews, 5 AT Rifle squads, 5 45mm AT gun crews, 3 T-26 M33's, 6 DShK crews, 1 BT-7M, 2 F-22's, 2 BA-10M's, 1 50mm mortar team, 1 BA-10, 1 T-26 M33, 2 BT-5's and 1 T-34/76 M41.
/5: Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 1st Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Silver), Panzer Ace, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Knight's Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 40 Rifle squads, 1 BA-6, 4 AT Rifle squads, 4 Maxim crews, 1 BA-3, 2 BT-7M's, 4 T-26 M33, 2 45mm AT gun crews, 2 50mm mortar teams, 2 BT-7's, 1 BA-10M, and 1 DShK crew.

1/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment /1: Iron Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver and War Merit Cross 2nd Class, killed 20 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew, 1 Maxim crew and 1 T-26 M39.
/2: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver and Iron Cross 2nd Class, killed 15 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew, 1 Maxim crew and 1 AT Rifle squad.
/3: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver and Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 19 Rifle squad, 3 Maxim crews.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Wound Badge (Black) and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 19 Rifle squads, 2 Sniper teams, 1 BA-10, 1 Maxim crew,1 BT-7M and 1 76mm infantry gun crew..
/5: Iron Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Knights Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and Panzer Ace, killed 20 Rifle squads, 1 Sniper team, 3 50mm mortar teams and 3 Maxim crews.

Non-core:

Ju 87/1 War Merit Cross 2nd Class, killed 1 Rifle squad.
/2 War Merit Cross 2nd Class, killed 2 Maxim crews.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/22/2011 4:56:20 PM >


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(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 86
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/22/2011 12:54:38 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7167
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Meaning where you said you were targeting, then losing line of sight and having them re-target on their own?


No, that's a different issue, this is the area fire issue where if you target the exact location (the hitbox) of an enemy unit, units seem to override the order as they might treat it as a regular targeting request, which they can't comply with as they can't see the target.

quote:

Meaning a doubling of the kill count? I'm very concerned to hear that and have played dozens of random campaign battles without seeing any corruption like that. Did you have any save file that showed this, or a save file from the battle before it happened? Sorry to keep asking, I don't want you to feel like a tester I just want to be responsive to any perceived issues.


Not literally a doubling, it seems to be the kills of the previous battle+the ones in this battle.

I don't mind you asking about saves, we're all trying to improve the product after all.

Who should I send the pre-end turn save to?

quote:

That's quite impressive.


The Wound Badge and German Cross were what I expected, but the Knight's Cross was probably due to what I suspect is the corrupted amount of kills during the battle.

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Panzer Corps Beta tester
Unity of Command scenario designer

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 87
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/22/2011 3:16:36 PM   
Mad Russian


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From: Texas
Status: offline
You should be able to attach the file here.

Good Hunting.

MR


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Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 88
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/22/2011 4:55:53 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Status: offline
A Rapidshare link for the turn 35 saved game: https://rapidshare.com/files/2186801198/Turn35.zip

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Post #: 89
RE: 7th Panzer 97 battle long campaign AAR - 5/23/2011 12:03:53 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7167
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline
Were you guys able to duplicate the problem with the save?

-

Weather's still a bit funny, I've only gotten snow in September in 3 battles thus far. It seems the weather tables are about 2 months off the mark, with mud in July-August (should be mostly from October onwards) and snow in September (completely snowed over maps should be mostly from November and onwards). In WitE, weather's clear until October generally, and although a map with mud or two is realistic for the summer, snow in September just feels odd.

The T-34/57 M41's availability date could also possibly be moved towards October or November, September's a bit early.

-

Legendary victory in battle 13, no damage to my tanks. It seems the Soviets get less units in September than they got in the summer, I don't know if that's by design.

Ammunition levels were 60% or so, which made the battle more difficult.



The plan: flank the T-34's with the 2 HQ tanks (who will capture the first flag in the process), whilst distracting them with the 5 other Panzer38(t)E's. After the T-34's are destroyed, the Panzer II's and the non-core Sd.Kfz. 251's will move in to capture the second flag.

Red circle: 2 T-34/76 M41's.
Yellow circle: 45mm AT gun.
Green circle: F-22.



As one of the T-34's turned towards a HQ tank, I had hoped to get a good flanking shot in, but aside from damaging a track no damage was done. After these tanks got the attention of the T-34's, they withdrew out of their sighting range.



Literally with their last two AP shells, the HQ Panzer 38(t)E's sneak up on the T-34's through some woods and destroy them from behind.



Turn 30, a Panzer 38(t)E engaging some Soviet infantry.



The end on turn 31.

Not a very intense battle, as I spend most of the time flanking the T-34's.

The Soviets had placed 2 AT guns to guard their flank at the first flag, but once those were gone my HQ tanks could fairly easily move in behind the T-34's.

A T-26 M33 and a BA-6 were also present, but those didn't pose much of a threat.

Core:

1/1/2-6 PzG /1 Close Combat Bar (Bronze), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Rifle squad.
/2 Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), Close Combat Bar (Bronze).
/3: Close Combat Bar (Bronze), Infantry Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Rifle squad.

Transports: /1 Veteran Driver.
/2 Veteran Driver.
/3 nothing.

1/1-37 Aufklaerung /1: Veteran Driver
/2: Wound Badge (Black), War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Bronze), killed 1 Maxim crew, 2 Rifle squads and 1 50mm mortar team.

HQ 3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 1st Class, German Cross (Gold), Wound Badge (Gold) and Panzer Ace, killed 38 Rifle squads, 5 50mm mortar teams, 8 Maxim crews, 4 45mm AT gun crew, 2 BT-7's, 2 BA-10M's, 2 DShK 39 crews, 2 BT-5's, 1 T-26S M39, 2 BA-6's, 2 AT Rifle squads and 1 T34/76 M41.
/2: Wound Badge (Black), Wound Badge (Silver), Panzer Ace, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Gold), War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), War Merit Cross 1st Class and Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 45 Rifle squads, 4 76mm infantry gun crew, 3 Maxim crews, 4 50mm mortar teams, 1 AT Rifle squad, 2 BA-10M's, 3 BT-7's, 3 BT-5's, 1 122mm gun, 6 45mm AT guns, 2 Flamethrower squads, 1 BA-6, 3 BT-7M's, 3 T-26 M33's, 2 T34/76 M41's, 1 Sniper squad and 1 F-22.

2/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment/1: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Panzer Ace and Knight's Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 26 Rifle squads, 2 45mm AT gun crews, 3 50mm mortar crews, 3 T-26 M33's, 1 truck, 2 Maxim crews, 1 AT Rifle squad, 2 Sniper squads, 1 T34/76 M41 and 1 F-22.
/2: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, German Cross (Gold), Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Ace, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and Veteran Driver, killed 42 Rifle squads, 3 T-26 M39's, 2 76mm infantry gun crews, 6 Maxim crews, 2 BT-7's, 1 45mm AT gun crew, 2 AT Rifle squads, 1 BA-10M, 3 T-26 M33's, 4 DShK 39 crews, 5 50mm mortar teams and 1 Sniper squad.
/3: Wound Badge (Black), Veteran Driver, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 30 Rifle squads, 4 Maxim crews, 1 BT-7, 4 45mm AT gun crews, 1 BT-7M, 2 DShK crews, 1 BA-3, 1 KV-2 M41, 1 AT Rifle squad, 1 Sniper team, 2 T-26 M33's and 2 50mm mortar teams.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Wound Badge (Silver), Veteran Driver, Panzer Ace, Iron Cross 1st Class, War Merit Cross 1st Class, Wound Badge (Gold), Knight's Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class and German Cross (Gold), killed 1 T-26 M39, 35 Rifle squads, 1 76mm infantry gun crew, 3 BT-7's, 5 Maxim crews, 5 AT Rifle squads, 5 45mm AT gun crews, 3 T-26 M33's, 6 DShK crews, 1 BT-7M, 2 F-22's, 2 BA-10M's, 1 50mm mortar team, 1 BA-10, 1 T-26 M33, 2 BT-5's and 1 T-34/76 M41.
/5: Wound Badge (Black), Iron Cross 2nd Class, Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), Iron Cross 1st Class, Veteran Driver, Wound Badge (Silver), Panzer Ace, War Merit Cross 2nd Class and Knight's Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 43 Rifle squads, 1 BA-6, 4 AT Rifle squads, 4 Maxim crews, 1 BA-3, 2 BT-7M's, 4 T-26 M33, 2 45mm AT gun crews, 2 50mm mortar teams, 2 BT-7's, 1 BA-10M, and 1 DShK crew.

1/3/2-25 Panzer Regiment /1: Iron Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver and War Merit Cross 2nd Class, killed 20 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew, 1 Maxim crew and 1 T-26 M39.
/2: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver and Iron Cross 2nd Class, killed 15 Rifle squads, 1 50mm mortar crew, 1 Maxim crew and 1 AT Rifle squad.
/3: Iron Cross 2nd Class, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver and Iron Cross 1st Class, killed 19 Rifle squad, 3 Maxim crews.
/4: War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, Iron Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Wound Badge (Black) and Panzer Assault Badge (Silver), killed 19 Rifle squads, 2 Sniper teams, 1 BA-10, 1 Maxim crew,1 BT-7M and 1 76mm infantry gun crew..
/5: Iron Cross 2nd Class, Veteran Driver, War Merit Cross 2nd Class, Iron Cross 1st Class, Knights Cross to the Iron Cross 1st Class, Wound Badge (Black), Panzer Assault Badge (Silver) and Panzer Ace, killed 20 Rifle squads, 1 Sniper team, 3 50mm mortar teams and 3 Maxim crews.

< Message edited by ComradeP -- 5/23/2011 12:05:02 PM >


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WitE Alpha tester
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Unity of Command scenario designer

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Post #: 90
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