Matrix Games

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ORIGINAL: Helpless

It is not about production, but the way TOE(OB) is done. Pz-IIIn is CS type tank and can't be substituted for other types. Probably not many units has this type in OOB at the moment.

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Is this as intended or not?

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What's a "CS type" tank?

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ORIGINAL: Helpless

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What's a "CS type" tank?

Counter Strike

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ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

What's a "CS type" tank?

What rationale drives the game mechanic that sees an armored division's worth of state-of-the-art tanks lying at their factory locale back in Germany?  (This mechanic is certainly of no value to the German army. What's the historical basis of such a mechanic is what I'm getting at.)

And while production system as a whole is something I basically consider PFM (pure f****ng magic), this is primarily from lack of effort on my part.  How do you have 250 of a tank that you have no capacity to build?  Is that an off-map factory production element?

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ORIGINAL: Helpless

I meant it works as intended form the code perspective. The fact the Germans don't have appropriate OB to utilize CS Tanks in beyond 1943 is outside of my competence. Hopefully Jim will answer this.

Stugs are assault guns and can't be substituted by CS tanks. We tried to create all kind of exceptions, but then it leads to much worse anomalies.

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ORIGINAL: Aditia
EDIT: if this is working as intended, well, all I can do is make a monkey face and continue to soldier on in my game. I have to say it feels pretty dumb to see 90% of my infantry divisions without AFV (StuG losses are horrific) and seeing 250 infantry tanks being used to parade around the Champs Elysee

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ORIGINAL: Mynok

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ORIGINAL: Aditia
EDIT: if this is working as intended, well, all I can do is make a monkey face and continue to soldier on in my game. I have to say it feels pretty dumb to see 90% of my infantry divisions without AFV (StuG losses are horrific) and seeing 250 infantry tanks being used to parade around the Champs Elysee

If Stug losses are bad, IIIn losses would be much worse.

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ORIGINAL: AKCLIMBER

The handling of production and distribution of equipment can certainly be frustrating.  I'm on turn 166 (August, 1944) of a GC vs Soviets and I've got 296 Tigers, 95 King Tigers, 94 Jagdpanthers and 70 Hetzers in my pool.  I could certainly use them up on the line.  At least some units are using the Tigers, Jagdpanthers and Hetzers but none of my pixel panzer truppen seem interested in taking possession of those Tiger IIs, even tho my Gorky and Rostov lines are beginning to crumble.

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ORIGINAL: TAIL_GUNNER

The Germans never had a CS type tank designation in their unit orgs.

Battle tanks were either light, medium, or heavy....Panzer IV and IIIn were always designated mediums.

Type 'CS' should be done away with...unless there's something in the code for this identifier?

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ORIGINAL: TAIL_GUNNER

quote:

ORIGINAL: AKCLIMBER

The handling of production and distribution of equipment can certainly be frustrating.  I'm on turn 166 (August, 1944) of a GC vs Soviets and I've got 296 Tigers, 95 King Tigers, 94 Jagdpanthers and 70 Hetzers in my pool.  I could certainly use them up on the line.  At least some units are using the Tigers, Jagdpanthers and Hetzers but none of my pixel panzer truppen seem interested in taking possession of those Tiger IIs, even tho my Gorky and Rostov lines are beginning to crumble.

Ran some numbers on the Tiger production numbers in the game..

Production runs from 7/42 - 12/44 = 125 weeks (why does the editor say 150 weeks??)
Factory in Kassel produces 9 per week, so 9 * 125 = 1125
As "free" reinforcements you get another 230 Tigers.
Grand total = 1355

Historical production was 1347 machines.
This is why the numbers are so high...it seems the game is producing for ALL theaters, even though the focus should only be the East Front.

I wonder if this is intentional?

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ORIGINAL: AKCLIMBER

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ORIGINAL: TAIL_GUNNER

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ORIGINAL: AKCLIMBER

The handling of production and distribution of equipment can certainly be frustrating.  I'm on turn 166 (August, 1944) of a GC vs Soviets and I've got 296 Tigers, 95 King Tigers, 94 Jagdpanthers and 70 Hetzers in my pool.  I could certainly use them up on the line.  At least some units are using the Tigers, Jagdpanthers and Hetzers but none of my pixel panzer truppen seem interested in taking possession of those Tiger IIs, even tho my Gorky and Rostov lines are beginning to crumble.

Ran some numbers on the Tiger production numbers in the game..

Production runs from 7/42 - 12/44 = 125 weeks (why does the editor say 150 weeks??)
Factory in Kassel produces 9 per week, so 9 * 125 = 1125
As "free" reinforcements you get another 230 Tigers.
Grand total = 1355

Historical production was 1347 machines.
This is why the numbers are so high...it seems the game is producing for ALL theaters, even though the focus should only be the East Front.

I wonder if this is intentional?

Nice work. That certainly seems to make sense.

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ORIGINAL: TAIL_GUNNER

The Germans never had a CS type tank designation in their unit orgs.

Battle tanks were either light, medium, or heavy....Panzer IV and IIIn were always designated mediums.

Type 'CS' should be done away with...unless there's something in the code for this identifier?

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ORIGINAL: Aditia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

It is not about production, but the way TOE(OB) is done. Pz-IIIn is CS type tank and can't be substituted for other types. Probably not many units has this type in OOB at the moment.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't understand what you are trying to say =P Is this as intended or not? And yes, I know it is a CS tank, which is why I was hoping it would filter to infantry divisions since I am very low on StuG's :) Also, the gun of the IIIn does have anti-armor capabilities by firing HEAT ammo

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ORIGINAL: jaw

The Panzer IIIn last appears in the TOE of the 42 Heavy Panzer Battalion which upgrades to the 43 Heavy Panzer Battalion in July, 1943. The Panzer IIIn itself goes out of production in August, 1943.

The way the game system works AFVs are defined by type such a light tank, medium tank, etc. Unless specifically allowed by code, these types are not interchangeable. This prohibition was a deliberate design decision to allow TOEs to maintain an historical distribution of tank types/quantities to the greatest extend possible. The downside of this prohibition is that occasionally in cases like the Panzer IIIn the type can be discontinued in the TOEs before it actually ends production. In the "real world" the Germans would have simply used any available Panzer IIIns as substitute battle tanks and thought nothing of it; such flexibility can't easily be represented in a game.

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ORIGINAL: molchomor

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ORIGINAL: AKCLIMBER

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ORIGINAL: TAIL_GUNNER

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ORIGINAL: AKCLIMBER

The handling of production and distribution of equipment can certainly be frustrating.  I'm on turn 166 (August, 1944) of a GC vs Soviets and I've got 296 Tigers, 95 King Tigers, 94 Jagdpanthers and 70 Hetzers in my pool.  I could certainly use them up on the line.  At least some units are using the Tigers, Jagdpanthers and Hetzers but none of my pixel panzer truppen seem interested in taking possession of those Tiger IIs, even tho my Gorky and Rostov lines are beginning to crumble.

Ran some numbers on the Tiger production numbers in the game..

Production runs from 7/42 - 12/44 = 125 weeks (why does the editor say 150 weeks??)
Factory in Kassel produces 9 per week, so 9 * 125 = 1125
As "free" reinforcements you get another 230 Tigers.
Grand total = 1355

Historical production was 1347 machines.
This is why the numbers are so high...it seems the game is producing for ALL theaters, even though the focus should only be the East Front.

I wonder if this is intentional?

Nice work. That certainly seems to make sense.

In my 42 GC I get 8 tigers/week, from the start of production it has been this way. 125 weeks of that would mean I get 1000 tanks less than the figure quoted above during the same period (I am in feb '44 now and still 8 tigers are produced each turn). So I would not be so sure to draw any conclusions on the "production for all theatres" thing. of course I have the same problem with most units not wanting/daring to use the tiger and king tigers so the majority are sitting in the pool (this has been discussed to death before, we will never get a switch tank equipment option (as exists for aircrafts) so game "features" as e.g. pz divisions having zero or very few T-70:s, T-34s etc. in their listed equipment instead of using the piles of tigers being available will stay).

Edit: Lol ? 125 x 1 = 125 tanks less not 1000 tanks less :)