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RE: 1.04.14 Fulkerson vs KLilly T19

 
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RE: 1.04.14 Fulkerson vs KLilly T19 - 5/6/2011 3:41:17 AM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline 		Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have another question for Heliodorus and I think Larry will also benefit, so...

Heliodorus, I don't understand the point of tracking rifle squads--why is that better than simply tracking the manpower pool?

Also, thanks for the tips on the aircraft, I spent a lot of time fixing some stuff this turn, but next turn should go much quicker.

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 151
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T23 - 5/6/2011 5:23:54 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm
Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have another question for Heliodorus and I think Larry will also benefit, so...
Heliodorus, I don't understand the point of tracking rifle squads--why is that better than simply tracking the manpower pool?

I'd like to know HOW to track the rifle squads. I mean I see the numbers each turn on the production and losses screens but I don't pay all that much attention to the trend(s); if there is one I'm not aware of it. Maybe I should pay more attention to some specific number. Don't worry about hijacking my thread, I'm here to learn too.

Here's the front lines before any movement on turn 23:




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Post #: 152
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T23 - 5/6/2011 5:24:58 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		And the ground losses so far:




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Post #: 153
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T23 - 5/6/2011 5:25:29 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		And the OOB:




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Post #: 154
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T23 - 5/6/2011 5:25:58 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		And the state of Soviet production so far:




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Post #: 155
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T23 - 5/6/2011 6:14:38 AM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		Timely recon has pointed to the possibility that I've found a rather large hole in the Axis lines. Maybe I pour a few million soliders through
that bad boy and see what happens. He'll probably close the gaps some way or the other before I can take advantage of the situation.





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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 5/6/2011 6:15:48 AM >

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Post #: 156
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T23 - 5/6/2011 6:17:29 AM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1369
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		Before I get to explaining much about the Rifle Squads, let me confide that my statistical tracking is completely for theory right now.  All I'm trying to do is track trends in the stats (Rifle Squads, Manpower), and MAYBE see if there is any impact in the game relative to the stats I'm tracking.  It's something I started as an exercise not knowing if it will be worthwhile tracking data.  I remember Big Anorak writing about the Axis 'shatter' threshold (for the whole front) being about 19,000 rifle squads.

I'm not even sure I'm tracking the right statistic right now.  I'll show you where I get them when I can concentrate again and make a screen shot.  I finished my last forecasting project today, and this thread provided much needed mental breaks.  And then my opponent finished a turn, so I have my own game to obsess over for a day or two.


_____________________________

For the longest time I thought I'd buy WitW to ensure my legitimate voice of criticism could be heard. But as WitE continues down the path of Soviet Army fantasy-land, I've given up all hope of enjoying either game again.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 157
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T23 - 5/6/2011 6:24:11 AM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline 		heliodorus, OK, thanks. I'd be interested in seeing how rifle squads correlate to manpower in late 1941, when I typically have up to a million men in my manpower pool! That number drops pretty quickly as soon as 1942 begins, but I don't really understand why...

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 158
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T23 - 5/6/2011 6:27:35 AM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline 		Larry, good job finding the hole, but I've got to say that he should have no problem plugging it if all you have are your plodding rifle divisions. You need to scrounge up as much cav/armor to throw up there as possible and attach it to a nearby HQ, then see what you can do!

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 159
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T23 - 5/7/2011 6:28:07 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm
Larry, good job finding the hole, but I've got to say that he should have no problem plugging it if all you have are your plodding rifle divisions.

You need to scrounge up as much cav/armor to throw up there as possible and attach it to a nearby HQ, then see what you can do!

Here's the T24 front lines before any Soviet movement. You can see where Kevin has already started to close the hole using nearby assets. I'll post a close-up also, of the area in consideration after this post.




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Post #: 160
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T23 - 5/7/2011 6:29:27 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		Here's a close-up of the area where the hole used to be. Kevin is scrambling to close the hole and I'm scrambling to open it wider.




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(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 161
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T23 - 5/7/2011 6:30:50 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		I'm thinking that I have a bottleneck in the Armaments area. I'm not good at looking at statistics and finding a problem quickly so I'm just guessing.




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Post #: 162
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T24 - 5/7/2011 6:31:28 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		Here's the ground losses so far:




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(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 163
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T24 - 5/7/2011 6:32:01 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		Here's the OOB ( just for completeness ).




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(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 164
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T24 - 5/7/2011 6:33:00 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		Here's a close-up of an area where Kevin has formed an almost pocket and I'm thinking I can counterattack and maybe isolate some of his stuff and kill it.




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(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 165
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T24 - 5/7/2011 6:59:29 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1369
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		Forgive me, but I don't remember what turns are what weather.  By my math in my head (always unreliable), T24 should be the last turn of snow, with the Blizzard starting next turn?

If that's the case, then yes, you have major counter-attack possibilities.  It looks like you have a great and solid defensive line now, and an awesome set of counterattack possibilities.

Southwestern Front has a great bulge, the southern-half of which has a lot of Axis Minors, and I think you could steam-roll that bulge from the north and the south.

If you work it efficiently, I think you might be able to encircle all of the armor in that salient from your last screen shot, but I could be wrong.  He's certainly stuck his neck out there, which I'd say is probably a mistake the turn before the blizzard starts.






_____________________________

For the longest time I thought I'd buy WitW to ensure my legitimate voice of criticism could be heard. But as WitE continues down the path of Soviet Army fantasy-land, I've given up all hope of enjoying either game again.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 166
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T24 - 5/7/2011 7:00:26 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1369
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		Also, for you and 76mm, here is how I'm tracking my manpower, rifle squads, and cav squads (taken from the production screen with filters set to 'off').






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_____________________________

For the longest time I thought I'd buy WitW to ensure my legitimate voice of criticism could be heard. But as WitE continues down the path of Soviet Army fantasy-land, I've given up all hope of enjoying either game again.

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 167
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T24 - 5/7/2011 10:05:56 PM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline 		What's the difference between rifle squads and rifle squads (-) again?

(in reply to heliodorus04)
Post #: 168
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T24 - 5/7/2011 10:42:02 PM   
Jajusha


Posts: 127
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

What's the difference between rifle squads and rifle squads (-) again?


rifle Squads (-) are a slightly older model i think. Something like it has one extra rifle and 1 less smg.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 169
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T23 - 5/7/2011 10:45:31 PM   
Jajusha


Posts: 127
Joined: 12/21/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I'm thinking that I have a bottleneck in the Armaments area. I'm not good at looking at statistics and finding a problem quickly so I'm just guessing.





You still have a decent armament production curretly. Normaly you have a lack or armaments and too many men eager to join the front lines.

Looking at your production, you have 91.000 men waiting to join the front lines, and 373.000 armaments to produce their rifles, so, you are currently equiping everyone and sending them to the front lines with little to no delay. If all is well, you should soon start to stockpile both on men and armaments as your divisions start to get close to their TOE level.

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 170
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T24 - 5/7/2011 11:05:57 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 1109
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jajusha


rifle Squads (-) are a slightly older model i think. Something like it has one extra rifle and 1 less smg.

squad(-) is a weaker type of squad.

< Message edited by sillyflower -- 5/7/2011 11:20:43 PM >

_____________________________

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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Post #: 171
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T24 - 5/7/2011 11:19:38 PM   
sillyflower


Posts: 1109
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

Here's a close-up of an area where Kevin has formed an almost pocket and I'm thinking I can counterattack and maybe isolate some of his stuff and kill it.





if this is last snow turn it would be great if you could squueze around that armoured finger even if you can't get enough together to attack it. Armour in the open is a fantastic target in blizzard.

you are in much better shape than the other game as you have held a lot of ground in the south so have more manpower and ( I presume) factories. Also, far fewer losses and it shows because you have more 2CV units.

give his army hell in the winter especially units in the open and no/low forts. Easiest to attack and they will also have suffered more attrition.

You also have great strategic opportunities as germans holding too long a front. Moscow clearly vulnerable and a major thrust from South would cause seroius problems as there are lots of gals on the Dnepr already. Yuo would need to shift some more troop there to make the most of that. I would do that rather than take him on where he is clearly strong.

Good to see you have made the most of Heliodorus' advice from the look of your dispositions. You can win this game!

_____________________________

web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 172
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T24 - 5/7/2011 11:34:45 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		Here's the moves I made in the area where the hole is. I'm poised to advance into the gaps and try to widen the hole bigger. He's
probably moving people to this area even as we speak. I'm going to have to rail in some more people if possible to counter his moves.
This is a poor area for the Soviets to attack as it doesn't have any close rails to use. Any people I ship here will have to hot-foot it into
the front lines.




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(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 173
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T24 - 5/7/2011 11:53:40 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		Here's my moves to try to isolate Kevin's latest attempt to make a pocket. I didn't have quite enough movement points left to isolate his Black SS dudes but I'm forming attacking stacks all over the place.




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(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 174
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T24 - 5/8/2011 2:03:59 AM   
Pelton


Posts: 4355
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline 		Nice job Larry vs KTilly.

You seem to have the upper hand in this war.

I just wanted to comment a little on what I see in this game vs our game Fulkerson vs Pelton and Fulkerson vs KTilly

Looking at turn 10 in each game first.

I have about 70,000 more deaths then Tilly. On the ground there are little differences other then I have allot more enemy troops surrounded. I would also say that Tilly is doing better in the north and center then me also, I am doing better in the South.

I have killed about 2.4 mil to KTilly's 1.8 mil.
Larry has 3.8 mil combat troops vs Pelton
Larry has about 4.25 mil combat troops vs KTilly

Turn 20

Again KTilly is doing better from Moscow north and I am doing better from Moscow south.

I have killed about 3.5 mil to KTilly's 2.8 mil.
Larry has 4.1 mil combat troops vs Pelton
Larry has about 5.0 mil combat troops vs KTilly

Larrys manpower production vs Pelton 2498 / vs KTilly 2718
Larrys Hvy production vs Pelton 158 / vs KTilly 214
Larrys Arm production vs Pelton 191 / vs KTilly 329

My conclusions:

1. The GHC must lower SHC manpower production to below 2500. There are several ways to do this. Moscow is not a must, but sure helps.
2. Capture as many cities as fast as you can.
3. The number of kills is not as important as it seems, the production factors are more important. More kills sure helps, I think 3 mill is probably the min if you can lower the SHC production numbers low enough. This should really weaken the SHC 1941-1942 winter attacks. Which "should" lead to a better then historical 1942 summer for the GHC.

Pelton



< Message edited by Pelton -- 5/8/2011 2:14:35 AM >

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 175
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T25 - 5/8/2011 2:26:42 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		Here's the T25 front lines before any Soviet movement:




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(in reply to Pelton)
Post #: 176
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T25 - 5/8/2011 2:27:48 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		And the ground losses so far:




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(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 177
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T25 - 5/8/2011 2:28:06 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		And the OOB:




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(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 178
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T25 - 5/8/2011 2:28:30 PM   
larryfulkerson


Posts: 16902
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Tucson, AZ, USA, Earth, Solar System
Status: online 		And the state of Soviet production so far:




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(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 179
RE: 1.04.16 Fulkerson vs KLilly T25 - 5/8/2011 3:21:09 PM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline 		I would think about sending many reinforcements down south, to the lower Dnepr--wide open spaces and you can probably beat up on Romanians, could be promising...

(in reply to larryfulkerson)
Post #: 180
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