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RE: list/menu of captured/destroyed factories

 
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RE: list/menu of captured/destroyed factories - 11/16/2017 1:55:00 PM   
morvael


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Good idea.

(in reply to Stelteck)
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RE: Soviet air force - 11/16/2017 11:48:40 PM   
thedoctorking

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

The point I was making was specifically about growth of experience relative to losses. As I understand it Soviet air units can get increased experience even if they are taking such losses that you might expect them to be losing experience. I don't think the same is going to apply to ground forces as losses are at nothing like the same level. However have not done an analysis of this and don't know exactly how the game works it.
This was not a criticism of your taking advantage of it - I trust we are both working the engine to the best of our ability.


I have been following this discussion and I would like to offer some thoughts regarding the increase of experience for air units. Remember, loss of an aircraft in combat does not necessarily imply the loss of the pilot. Soviet planes, especially the very commonly used American lend-lease P-39's and P-40's, had armored cockpits and self-sealing gas tanks, meaning that pilots were more likely than not to survive the loss of their aircraft. Also, the Soviets were fighting in their own national air space. Even if a pilot bailed out over territory nominally controlled by the Axis, he was likely to find friendly civilians and even members of the Red Army on the ground to welcome him. So a pilot could certainly gain useful experience (at least about what not to do) from a mission in which his aircraft is lost. Also, as long as an air unit retains a cadre of its experienced pilots, the inexperienced newcomers will learn from their more experienced comrades.

And, especially with the contribution of the Americans, the USSR had no shortage of aircraft. So they could tolerate more losses than the Germans in the interests of gaining experience.

Therefore, I think the current system rewards a very proper and historical aggressiveness by the Soviet air force in the early part of the war. What I think of as an "exploit" is the habit that some Soviet players have of moving units wholesale into the National Reserve and keeping them there for many months. National Reserve is fine for a couple of weeks for retraining and perhaps reequipping with modern aircraft, but I can't imagine Stalin sitting still for his air force commanders basing the entire inventory in Chelyabinsk while the Luftwaffe bombs the Red Army at will.

< Message edited by thedoctorking -- 11/17/2017 12:04:19 AM >

(in reply to tyronec)
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RE: Soviet air force - 11/17/2017 1:42:22 PM   
SPNILHOB

 

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Thanks, guys. Good thread. Let's be careful about drawing definitive conclusions from speculation and fragmentary data.

< Message edited by SPNILHOB -- 11/17/2017 1:46:09 PM >

(in reply to thedoctorking)
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RE: Soviet air force - 11/17/2017 11:13:49 PM   
thedoctorking

 

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And loss of an aircraft on the ground will almost never mean loss of the pilot. And at least in the games I've played (through early 1942 only, though), the vast majority of USSR aircraft losses come on the ground. That should cause minimal to no experience loss.

(in reply to SPNILHOB)
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RE: Soviet air force - 12/11/2017 12:38:30 AM   
thedoctorking

 

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How about a random leader stats option? Maybe when combined with a system so that you don't know or can't know exactly what a leader's true abilities are until you have used him in combat.

This would be especially appropriate for the Russians since it had been quite some time since the Civil War and few senior Red Army officers had survived the period of purges from that earlier conflict. And even fewer of them had held high command before.

(in reply to thedoctorking)
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RE: Soviet air force - 12/11/2017 1:21:51 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
How about a random leader stats option? Maybe when combined with a system so that you don't know or can't know exactly what a leader's true abilities are until you have used him in combat.


I really like this idea. A new interesting part of the game would be finding out which one of your leaders is actually very good. Which is pretty historical. I wonder also would there be a Peter's principle involved? Could good corps commanders turn out to be not very good army commanders, so more randomness at promotions.

I suppose you could have some historical well knowns fixed like Zhukov - there would be too many complaints if Zhukov got a bad rating. But some randomness among all the generals who died early historically but could survive and become military geniuses in your game?

(in reply to thedoctorking)
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RE: Soviet air force - 12/11/2017 2:29:34 PM   
thedoctorking

 

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And maybe those guys the NKVD shot on turn 3 historically actually were just unlucky and would have been good had they survived? After all, trusting some Chekist to be able to tell if a general is qualified or not is a little random.

Maybe what you could say is that leaders who have commanded large forces in combat before have fixed and known stats - so Zhukov, for example, was a proven quantity after the Khalkhin Gol campaign, and Timoshenko and Budenny had shown their skills, such as they were, in the Civil War. Most of the Germans would be known by this standard. But most Soviet leaders would be unknown at start. You would have a "det level" on each leader based on how many battles they had been in that would give you a closer and closer approximation of that leader's actual stats.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 757
RE: Soviet air force - 12/11/2017 3:22:52 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

How about a random leader stats option? Maybe when combined with a system so that you don't know or can't know exactly what a leader's true abilities are until you have used him in combat.

This would be especially appropriate for the Russians since it had been quite some time since the Civil War and few senior Red Army officers had survived the period of purges from that earlier conflict. And even fewer of them had held high command before.


This option makes War Between the States interesting .. in the American Civil war the problem was finding the better leaders ...
Not totally random . I think there are constraints ..

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(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 758
RE: Soviet air force - 12/11/2017 4:07:58 PM   
thedoctorking

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

How about a random leader stats option? Maybe when combined with a system so that you don't know or can't know exactly what a leader's true abilities are until you have used him in combat.

This would be especially appropriate for the Russians since it had been quite some time since the Civil War and few senior Red Army officers had survived the period of purges from that earlier conflict. And even fewer of them had held high command before.


This option makes War Between the States interesting .. in the American Civil war the problem was finding the better leaders ...
Not totally random . I think there are constraints ..

In the American Civil War, none of the leaders had ever commanded more than a few companies in battle. Some of the most highly respected leaders - Bragg, Halleck, McClellan - turned out to be useless, while Grant and Sherman had both left the army before the war as not too highly respected junior officers.

There's a board game I played, I think it was Victory Games' Civil War, where all your generals are hidden at start. That is, you draw 3-star general ??? and you assign him to command an army, only finding out later whether you got Lee or Van Dorn.

That game also has a promotion system where some generals get better as their experience and rank increases and others get worse. I notice that there's a little of that in War in the East, but there could be more.

< Message edited by thedoctorking -- 12/11/2017 4:09:21 PM >

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 759
RE: Soviet air force - 12/13/2017 9:33:10 PM   
thedoctorking

 

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How about semi-free deployment? Say 50% of Soviet units must be within 5 hexes of the border and another 25% within 15 hexes. Air bases could be fixed or required to be in specific regions or some such.

There's a kind of a seam in the Russian deployment in the south that permits a near-automatic isolation of a huge bunch of Soviet units around Lvov right off the bat. At a minimum it would be good to shuffle some units around to make this move less straightforward for the Germans on turn 1.

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 760
RE: Soviet air force - 12/13/2017 10:06:41 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

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Impact of the trucks shortage on the MP for motorized units.
e.g. Motorized unit that have 50% trucks – 25 or 50% MP reduction.

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 761
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