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Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 2:58:27 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 25362
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
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The 1.04.10 public beta patch should become available within the next day or two. There are a lot of changes and I've listed the items from the readme below with some major items in bold. There are many not bolded that are important though, so it's worth a full read through. Some highlights are reductions in the impact of the first winter rules on the Germans, a greater number of disabled troops resulting from damaged units and front line attrition, slower fort build rates at higher levels, greater attrition from non-rail movement, greater armaments production, and refit mode not providing benefits for units next to enemy controlled hexes. There were many formula tweaks and even some improvemens made to the Multiplayer system. On top of this many bugs and data issues were fixed. The changes were extensive and we are looking forward to public feedback on how the combined impact of the 1.04 items have changed the game.

For those asking about a revised manual, work is underway to produce a "living manual" that will contain the rule changes made to date. We would like to get this manual caught up to the current changes and released by the time a 1.04 version becomes an official patch. If you start a new AAR, it would help us if you would post the version number in your AAR title or at a minimum list the version number at the start of your AAR thread.

List of changes:


V1.04.10 – April 18, 2011

• New Features and Rule Changes

1) Changes with Version Numbers – The main menu now lists both the installed version number and the exe version number for the program being used. This makes it easier to use multiple copies of the game with different versions on one computer. The top windows bar will still display only the installed version number. We have also changed our version numbering to show 2 additional digits in the version number instead of labeling versions beta 1, beta 2, etc. --- The exe version number is also shown now as the last entry in the logistics phase event log. This is the version number that was being used during the logistics phase, so it is now possible to see what version your PBEM or Multiplayer opponent was using at the end of their turn.
2) New Rule - Damaged equipment and manpower returned to the pool during the logistics phase are not available immediately to be used as replacements. Although they appear in the pool on the production screen, they actually are put in a “transit pool”. At the start of each friendly logistics phase, 25% of the amount in the transit pool is moved to the available pool. This represents the lost time from the front of lightly wounded soldiers and damaged equipment.
3) New Rule - Units from different Luftflotte’s or Air Armies will not participate in the same air mission.

4) New Rule – If the Moscow Defense Zone HQ is relocated and it has no valid hex in the Moscow region to be relocated to (x=106-112, y=45), it is disbanded.
5) Rules Changes to First Winter rules (Section 22.3):
(a) (Section 22.3.1) Changed the CV modifications in January 1942 as follows: Attacking CV is divided by 2 (instead of /3). Any missed check (admin or combat skill) causes CV to be further divided by 3 (instead of /4). Defending CV is divided by 1.5 (instead of /2 – previously this was incorrectly listed as /4). Any missed checks causes CV to be further divided by 1.5 (instead of /2). The displayed on counter CVs are divided by 2 for attack and 1.5 for defense (instead of /3 and /2).
(b) (Section 22.3.1) Changed the CV modifications in February 1942 as follows: Attacking CV is divided by 1.5 (instead of /3). Any missed check (admin or combat skill) causes CV to be further divided by 2 (instead of /4). Defending CV is divided by 1.33 (instead of /2 – previously this was incorrectly listed as /4). Any missed checks causes CV to be further divided by 1.33 (instead of /2). The displayed on counter CVs are divided by 1.5 for attack and 1.33 for defense (instead of /3 and /2).
(c) (Section 22.3.2) The percent of damaged elements has been reduced in December 41 so instead of roughly 5-20% the losses are now roughly 1-7% (the damage losses are still reduced by 50% in Jan/Feb 1942). Units subject to this damage will now see their damage reduced if they are in a hex that has a fort level. The amount of the reduction is the fort level squared as follows:
1. Fort Level 1 – 1% reduction
2. Fort Level 2 – 4% reduction
3. Fort Level 3 – 9% reduction
4. Fort Level 4 – 16% reduction
5. Fort Level 5 – 25% reduction
So a unit in a fort level 4 that would have suffered 6% attrition will now suffer roughly 5% attrition.
(d) (Section 22.3.3) The Morale drop for exposed units was reduced from 2 to 1.
(e) (Section 22.3.3) Removed the automatic pre-combat morale reduction of 2 when morale was less than 60.
(f) (Section 22.3.3) Added a loss of 1 morale for non-Finnish Axis units whenever they are attacked and the final end of combat odds are greater than 1:2.
(g) (Section 22.3.4) Axis units tracing supply to a railhead in the affected area (22.3) will have the amount of supply they receive reduced by 25% after all other modifications. (previously it was reduced 50%).
(h) It was always harder for German units to received replacements during the first winter (previously undocumented). It is now even more difficult for them to received replacements during first winter.
6) Rule Changes to fort level construction rules:
(a) (Section 15.3.2.1) Decreased the fort build rates as follows:
Fort Level 0 3.0 (was 3.0, no change)
Fort Level 1 1.0 (was 1.0, no change)
Fort Level 2 0.25 (was 0.33)
Fort Level 3 0.05 (was 0.10)
Fort Level 4 0.01 (was 0.02)
(b) Construction values are reduced based on the supply level of the unit. In no event will they be reduced below 20% of normal due to supply level.
(c) Level 5 forts may continue to build up to 10% over level 5. This allows them to take some damage and still remain at Level 5.
(d) Artillery (especially Heavy Artillery) can cause small fort reductions during combat.
(e) Fort build rates for building forts greater than 3 can be divided by 2 if a leader admin check fails.
7) Rule Changes to Refit rules (Section 18.3) – Units set to refit (and those automatically considered in refit) will no longer receive the following benefits from refit if they are adjacent to an enemy controlled hex during their logistics phase:
(a) (Section 9.1.1) Morale bonus if under 50 morale.
(b) (Sections 18.2.1 and 18.2.2) Replacements in the refit sub-segment. Instead they will receive replacements in the normal replacement sub-segment (without priority) and be treated as if they are not in refit mode for the purposes of the TOE limits in section 18.2.2.
(c) (Section 9.3.1) The refit experience (training) benefit when their experience is lower than their morale (previously not clearly documented).
(d) (Section 18.3) Priority on upgrading and swapping of equipment.

8) Rule Change – The amount of support units can be increased by the level of fortification in the defending hex.
9) Rule Change - Introduced the concept of a commanding HQ for each side for each combat. Generally this commanding HQ is selected because it has the most CVs directly reporting to it in the battle. Units not reporting directly to the commanding HQ will suffer command battle modifiers that will reduce their CV for the battle. The battle report now lists the units in the battle grouped under the name of the HQ they report to. If an HQ’s units are suffering a command battle modifier, the amount of the CV reduction is shown next to the name of the HQ (for example XXIV Panzer Corps -36% indicates that each unit listed in this corps has had its CV reduced by 36%). The greater the number of HQ’s that the unit must trace through to reach the commanding HQ, the greater the modifier. In addition, units that report directly to a high command HQ suffer an additional 20% modifier, and those that report directly to an Army Group or Front suffer an additional 10% modifier (these are shown as part of the total modifier percentage displayed).
10) Changed the way reserves are committed to battle. The lower the command battle modifier described in item 9 above, the higher the chance the unit will be committed from reserve (especially those units with a command modifier below 10%). Also increased the chance of motorized units being committed.

11) Rule Change – Adjusted the amount of morale a unit loses after a battle. Now units are not guaranteed to lose a morale point when a battle is lost. The higher a unit’s morale is over its national morale, the greater the chance the morale will be reduced when it loses a battle.
12) Rule Change – (Section 18.2.1) Damaged units sent back to the pool during the logistics phase now have 40% of their manpower disabled (instead of 20%).
13) Rule Change – (Section 15.4.1) Artillery (ART,MORT,ROCKET,AT) support units have priority to be committed into a battle during a special commitment phase. During this round of commitments, defending HQ's have a chance of committing 3 more than the normal limit of committed HQs (so 9 or 21 instead of 6 or 18). After this round, the normal commitment round is conducted.
14) Rule Change – (Section 9.5.2) Increased front line attrition, but reduced the proportion of these attrition loss that is KIA to 30% (was 50%). The net impact should be similar KIA but an increased amount of manpower disabled due to front line attrition.
15) Rule Change – (Section 22.3.5) - First winter mitigation for towns and cities now protects the units with the largest manpower (including attached support units), instead of those with the largest CV (if any units are protected, as per the existing rules).
16) Rule Change – (Section 12.2.5 and 16.1.7) – Changing the Mission setting for a Fighter Bomber group no longer costs AP points (used to cost 1 AP). Player’s should realize that groups flying missions in a role they are not trained for will be flying at a major disadvantage.
17) Rule Change – There are now restrictions on the swapping out Heavy Artillery ground types.
18) Rule Changes – Each Armament factory now uses 50 supply points to produce 300 armament points per turn.
19) Rule Change – Excess AFV’s are not sent back to the pool if the AFV total in a unit is not exceeding the OB’s AFV total by 25%.
20) Multiplayer Change - Added 'Resign' option to the games list.
21) Multiplayer Change - Added 'Show Completed' and 'Show Resigned' buttons to the games screen to allow filtering of the game list
22) Multiplayer Change - Added 'hover' text to the games and challenges lists to display additional information about games.
23) Multiplayer Change – Now when an attempt to save the game fails, the user will be informed of this event and given the opportunity to try again.

24) Formula Changes to Movement Attrition and Fatigue:
(a) Non-AFV elements of motorized divisions will no longer suffer enhanced movement fatigue.
(b) Increased the average movement fatigue, especially for non-motorized units.
(c) Increased the chance of non-AFV elements breaking down during movement.
(d) Movement break down is decreased in case of successful Admin Rolls.

25) Formula Changes - Reduced the effectiveness of interdiction in terms of casualties caused. Increased the chance that interdiction will cause movement point reduction to the interdicted unit.
26) Formula Change - Decreased the morale reduction for air groups.
27) Formula Change - Air strikes are more fragmented now depending on experience and leader checks.
28) Formula Change – Reduced the amount of planes flying recon interception missions.
29) Formula Change – Slightly increased the accuracy of tactical bombers, primarily those with higher experience.
30) Formula Change - Increased the damage done by strategic bombing to some industry types including ports and heavy industry.
31) Formula Change - Increased the chance that an element will be damaged in combat instead of disrupted.
32) Formula Change – Increased damage from retreat attrition.
33) Formula Change - Reduced the rate at which leaders are promoted.
34) Formula Change – Reduced the amount of flak attacks.
35) Formula Change - Armament point usage during supply conversion to ammunition can get reduced by 2-4 times if the Admin roll is successful.
36) Formula change - There is a slightly higher chance than previously for high national morale units to gain morale during the logistics phase (didn’t change for those with morale less than 60).
37) Interface Change - Added AA units directly attached to cities to the OOB display.
38) Interface Change – Added turn, date and location information to the battle reports.
39) Interface Change - Units that are already assigned to an HQ will not appear on that HQ’s list on the Pick Support Unit Window when the Assign/Form button has been selected.
40) Interface change – Added a high detail combat message when an element is disrupted due to an airstrike.
41) Interface Change - Added the number of ready, damaged and reserve aircraft to the reinforcement screen for each air group listed.
42) New Message - Added a message to the event log when an empty unit is disbanded.
43) New Editor Feature - Added COPY/CLEAR functions to the TOE(OB) editor.
44) Improved Soviet AI in the Caucasus.
45) Somewhat improved the automatic air base selection method (still best to select the air base manually).

• Bug Fixes
1. Fixed a bug causing incorrect numbers being shown in the number of men moving to and from the pool in the Event Log.
2. Fixed a bug causing some withdrawing units to incorrectly place their equipment and manpower in the pool.
3. Fixed a bug where Axis units could ignore the TOE% settings during the first winter.
4. Fixed a bug in the truck loss routine that was adding manpower to the pool when trucks were damaged.
5. Made sure that the CR and OOB screen numbers agree. There were some discrepancies that could cause the two to disagree.
6. Fixed bugs that caused the AI to sometimes move support units to off-map/delayed HQs and “inactive” support units to on map HQs.
7. Fixed a bug that caused units moving by naval transport to get stuck in a water hex when it was interdicted.
8. Fixed a bug in which small factories could report different amount of equipment built than those that actually went to the pool.
9. Fixed combat so odds may no longer be shown as 0:0.
10. Fixed a bug that could cause routed tank divisions to not correctly transform to delayed tank brigades.
11. Fixed a problem in which the disband routine was not bringing some damaged equipment back to the pool.
12. Fixed a bug where inactive support units were passing through the upgrade/swap ground types procedure, placing and taking equipment to/from the pool.
13. Fixed a bug where the number of partisan cadres formed was incorrect.
14. Fixed a bug that was causing ports to be repaired too quickly.
15. Fixed a bug in the path tracing that could prevent defending units to receive support units help in a battle.
16. Fixed a bug that caused a unit to not be able to trace a movement path through a hex with 3 friendly units.
17. Fixed a bug where a guards unit was created with the same name as that of an existing guards unit.
18. Fixed a bug causing manpower loss/gain when escaped squads convert to partisans.
19. Fixed a bug in the Set All Unit MPs function in the editor that doesn't set MP for the Axis units correctly on June 22 1941.
20. Fixed Motorcycles Squads so they are set to infantry class instead of artillery class.
21. Fixed Heavy Infantry Guns so they are set to artillery class instead of infantry class.
22. Fixed a bug where Artillery Regiments had the option to assign another support unit to them, something that should never happen.
23. Fixed a bug where damaged elements were not having their manpower sent to the pool when due to an OB change the elements were no longer needed (the manpower was just being lost).
24. Fixed a bug where elements that were being exchanged due to a TOE change or upgrade were not properly accounting for the difference in manpower between the old and new elements.
25. Fixed a bug that could cause inaccurate record keeping of manpower lost from retreat attrition.
26. Fixed a bug that could prevent a totally empty Soviet or German unit removed from the map from being brought back on the map to be rebuilt.
27. Fixed a bug where ground elements which had an upgrade path set to 0 (instead of to themselves) could have some of their elements incorrectly sent back to the pool.
28. Fixed bugs where the map popup was not closing correctly when either ground element details of support units were displayed, or when TOE(OB) of support units attached to a city were displayed.
29. Fixed a bug where HQ units moving by naval transport were stopping when they entered an enemy zone of control in a water hex.
30. Fixed a bug where CV counter values for Axis units during the first winter were not displaying the correct modified CV value for the “attack”.
31. Fixed a bug preventing support units directly attached to combat units from helping in fort construction. Also fixed a bug that had allowed “inactive” support units to allow in fort construction.
32. Fixed a bug where undoing an air base unit movement could wipe out air groups recently assigned to the air base from reserve.
33. Fixed another instance where an isolated AI unit makes an illegal escape.
34. Fixed a bug where new units could be formed in reserved slots in the database (0, 8172-8191).
35. Fixed a bug where Soviet Military Districts and the Moscow Defense Zone that were isolated could not be destroyed when they should have been (they should be disbanded after October 1941 if they are forced to retreat).
36. Fixed a bug where HQ or routed units can start the turn next to an enemy combat unit when other units in the stack surrendered during the logistic phase.
37. Fixed a bug where enemy units were revealed by selecting a friendly unit and then shift-clicking on remote hexes.
38. Made a change so that frontline attrition will never cause damage beyond the amount of ready squads.
39. Fixed a problem where the unit names of units disbanded during combat were not being reported in the battle report.
40. Fixed a bug where delayed air groups could reset their plane count on load/saving a scenario.
41. Fixed a problem where HQ units were being listed as routed/retreated/shattered. This should not happen for HQ units.
42. Fixed a problem where partisan units could form routed.
43. Fixed a problem where hidden enemy units were being shown on the jump map when the end turn is pressed.
44. Fixed a problem where units could receive a very large number of support elements as replacements which where were not needed.
45. Made some improvements to the staging airbase selection code and air map generation code.
46. Fixed a crash bug caused by right clicking on a unit in the right unit panel while another units TOE detail screen is open.
47. Fixed so that HQ/Air Base units can no longer improperly be set static with the Shift-T hotkey.
48. Fixed so that Germany will no longer send armaments to surrendered nations.
49. Fixed a bug where the strongest units in a city or town were not correctly chosen for first winter mitigation effects (a weaker unit would sometimes be chosen instead).
50. Fixed shading in water hexes when using Movement FOW.
51. Fixed bugs that could in some cases prevent off-map factories from repairing/expanding.
52. Fixed factories in isolated cities so they will not upgrade.
53. Fixed a problem where newly arrived units which didn’t immediately receive replacements could get disbanded.
54. Fixed a bug where leaders could be dismissed without fighting a battle.
55. Fixed so that partisan cadres cannot get over 100% of OB.
56. Fixed a bug where hidden p[artisan units could affect an Axis unit’s move path display.
57. Fixed bugs where reorganizing/reforming Soviet unit messages appeared in the German Event Log.
58. Fixed a bug where heavy AT guns were not being produced.
59. Fixed a bug where units could get duplicate names due to OB/Guards conversions.
60. Fixed a bug where Fighter Bombers with a fighter mission were sometimes flying in bomber strikes as bombers.
61. Fixed a bug where 1 guard and 2 non-guard Soviet units when merged were forming a guard unit.
62. Fixed a bug where combat values of support units attached to combat units were not benefitting from non-urban fort/terrain modifier.
63. Fixed a problem where small partisan units with no listed supply need would not receive supplies from air resupply (even when missions were flown). Also fixed a display bug with the number of aircraft flown during a partisan resupply mission.


• Data and Scenario Changes
1. Small adjustments of Heavy Panzer Battalions for correct OBs for arrival dates
2. Moved the 653rd and 654th Heavy Panzerjager Battalions arrival date to 3 Jun 43
3. Changed the Soviet 1st BAK Commander to Izotov in all 1941 scenarios
4. Adjusted Operation Blue's Victory Points to make a German decisive victory a little easier. Stalingrad is now worth 300 VPs to the Germans at the end of the scenario (was 200). Soviet VPs for Baku is now worth 200 (was 300).
5. Fixed Soviet overstack in 1943 Campaign at 85,24
6. Ernst Leyser put as commander of XXVI Corps in 1943 Campaign
7. Ran SET ALL CITY SUPPLY REQUIREMENTS in all non-campaign scenarios
8. Updated leader file with corrections to German names
9. Purged airgroups on the arrival schedule now arrive with the proper amount of aircraft in all scenarios
10. German 41 Flak Regiments have been rebuilt in all scenarios to get rid of the 105mm Flak Gun
11. Polizei SS Division rebuilt as a 43 SS Grenadier Division for the 1943 Campaign Game
12. 22nd, 23rd, and 24th Panzer Division that arrive in Spring of 42 now have their historical tank numbers
13. One Rumanian Anti-Tank Battalion was rebuilt to use the proper 47mm Anti-Gun in all scenarios
14. Manpower and armament pools were wiped for all scenarios and campaigns except for the 1941 Campaign, Operation Barbarossa, Operation Typhoon, and "Road to" Scenarios.
15. Manpower and armament pools adjusted slightly for "Road to" scenarios to be consistent with the 1941 Campaign game.
16. Starting Administrative Point numbers slightly changed. Soviets were getting extra APs due to them receiving their per-turn allotment prior to their first turn.
17. Corrected amount of Support in OBs 86 & 87 (43 Guards Tank Corps) to agree with Support in OBs 104 & 105 (43 Tank Corps).
18. Adjusted upgrade dates of German Panzer Pioneer squads (Units 101 – 104) to fix problems created by duplicate squads (102 & 103).
19. Corrected device in Unit 370 (122mm Field Gun) from M-10 howitzer to A-19 field gun.


_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard
Post #: 1
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 3:28:57 AM   
hfarrish

 

Posts: 774
Joined: 1/3/2011
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Thanks Joel - everyone is looking forward to this and appreciates the hard work...

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 2
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 4:20:03 AM   
Mynok


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Well that's going to be a very different game.

quote:

8) Rule Change – The amount of support units can be increased by the level of fortification in the defending hex.


Huge. Just huge.


_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to hfarrish)
Post #: 3
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 5:19:05 AM   
hfarrish

 

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quote:

3) New Rule - Units from different Luftflotte’s or Air Armies will not participate in the same air mission.


This changes the air war dramatically as well...

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 4
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 5:27:49 AM   
76mm


Posts: 3012
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From: Berlin
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Thanks for the effort, most of the changes look great. A couple of questions:

1) I hope that these blizzard changes have been extensively tested before being released? In particular the reduction in attrition losses seems pretty signficant--between 1% and 7% (from a max of 20% under 1.03), to be further reduced by forfications, cities, etc.? At least in my ongoing campaign, under 1.03 the Germans seem to be in pretty fine shape after the blizzard.

2) Re partisan supply: I saw this fix, but have asked several times whether partisan supply is working correctly--there seem to be very very few partisan supply flights?
quote:

63. Fixed a problem where small partisan units with no listed supply need would not receive supplies from air resupply (even when missions were flown). Also fixed a display bug with the number of aircraft flown during a partisan resupply mission.


< Message edited by 76mm -- 4/20/2011 5:28:44 AM >

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 5
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 5:45:37 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6107
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From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
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Wow my head is spinning, Joel, Gary and Pavel have been beesy beavers... I have never seen so much post release support in a game...

_____________________________

Jon Pyle
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(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 6
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 5:50:20 AM   
Zebedee


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Definitely a lot to take in there.

Appreciate the work you guys are putting in behind the scenes (devs and testers alike).


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Post #: 7
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 6:02:01 AM   
Wild


Posts: 317
Joined: 12/10/2007
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WOW!!!

Absolutely incredible support.

@76mm. I'm sure the blizzard changes have been tested before release, but "Extensively Tested". I'm sure a small company like 2by3 has neither the time or resources for extensive testing. I for one don't mind. I'm sure the community will help in testing to make this game the best it can be.
Not to mention all the people who would cry (squatter ) if the patch wasn't released soon.

Also i think Helpless said somewhere that the partisan fix would be in the 1.04 Beta 2 patch. Not enough time to get it in this one.



< Message edited by Wild -- 4/20/2011 6:07:46 AM >

(in reply to Zebedee)
Post #: 8
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 6:18:48 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

Also i think Helpless said somewhere that the partisan fix would be in the 1.04 Beta 2 patch. Not enough time to get it in this one.


Thanks to the timezone differences we managed to get it into 1.04.10. There is still known issue that recons may join those flights, but it looks much better than before.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to Wild)
Post #: 9
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 6:38:08 AM   
Uxbridge


Posts: 929
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Uppsala, Sweden
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Really impressive! And timely too, with the winter-41 period coming up in our game.

I'm under the impression that the ill-effects from patching mid-game is inferior?

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Post #: 10
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 7:14:36 AM   
76mm


Posts: 3012
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Berlin
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless
Thanks to the timezone differences we managed to get it into 1.04.10. There is still known issue that recons may join those flights, but it looks much better than before.

Excellent, I hadn't seen acknowledgement of any problem. And it seems odd that recons may join partisan supply flights, since generally recons are not turned on for night missions?

Re the blizzard rules, I used the term "extensively" in a relative sense, and recognize that further tweaking may be necessary. However, after reading this forum, my understanding has been that the flogging during the blizzard is required to a certain degree to "correct" pre-blizzard losses that are too low, that is what I'm concerned about. The "during blizzard" effects sound about right to me.

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 11
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 7:45:44 AM   
Wild


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I don't know, i like to think the rule is there not as a balancing tool but as a historical accuracy tool for those of us grongards who have studied the eastern front in detail for the last 30 years.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 12
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 7:50:26 AM   
randallw

 

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Maybe the Axis fanboys will actually continue a campaign to the middle of 1942 now. 

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 13
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 7:59:43 AM   
Wild


Posts: 317
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I'm an axis fanboy!!
unfortuneatly i do not have much time due to real life issuses right now. But my AI campaign vs. the soviets on Hard is in nov'42 and i plan to play this one till the bitter end. ( that is unless 1.04 is too hard for me to resist.


< Message edited by Wild -- 4/20/2011 8:05:17 AM >

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 14
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 8:20:19 AM   
76mm


Posts: 3012
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Berlin
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wild

I don't know, i like to think the rule is there not as a balancing tool but as a historical accuracy tool for those of us grongards who have studied the eastern front in detail for the last 30 years.


I guess we'd all like to think that, but IIRC the devs have explicitly admitted the fact that a harsh blizzard was considered necessary to offset lower-than-historical losses during the 1941 campaign (tried to find a link to a post but the search function on this forum does not work at all). Sorry to disappoint you and all of the other grognards who have studied the eastern front in detail for the last 30 years.

EDIT: I basically agree with the position of Q-Ball (and others) in this thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2775324

< Message edited by 76mm -- 4/20/2011 8:25:43 AM >

(in reply to Wild)
Post #: 15
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 2:01:12 PM   
Lowlander2010

 

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looking forward to the beta being released and getting back to the eastern front, thanks for all your hard work :)

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 16
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 2:24:30 PM   
Ketza


Posts: 2255
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline
Much appreciated and anticipated.

Just like a honeymoon night!

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 17
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 2:26:46 PM   
Aditia

 

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62. Fixed a bug where combat values of support units attached to combat units were not benefitting from non-urban fort/terrain modifier.


What does this mean for defensive SU that are committed to a battle from an HQ, and were not previously assigned to a unit? This is important to know, to decide wether or not to spend AP to maximize the effect of available SU

(in reply to Lowlander2010)
Post #: 18
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 2:39:39 PM   
Helpless


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quote:

What does this mean for defensive SU that are committed to a battle from an HQ, and were not previously assigned to a unit?


They follow reserve unit rules.

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(in reply to Aditia)
Post #: 19
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 2:54:59 PM   
Sabre21


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Thanks for the effort, most of the changes look great. A couple of questions:

1) I hope that these blizzard changes have been extensively tested before being released? In particular the reduction in attrition losses seems pretty signficant--between 1% and 7% (from a max of 20% under 1.03), to be further reduced by forfications, cities, etc.? At least in my ongoing campaign, under 1.03 the Germans seem to be in pretty fine shape after the blizzard.

2) Re partisan supply: I saw this fix, but have asked several times whether partisan supply is working correctly--there seem to be very very few partisan supply flights?
quote:

63. Fixed a problem where small partisan units with no listed supply need would not receive supplies from air resupply (even when missions were flown). Also fixed a display bug with the number of aircraft flown during a partisan resupply mission.



Considering we only have a handfull of active testers now, doing extensive testing is time consuming and very difficult to say the least. Testers are no different than any of you in that they have families, jobs, real life, etc., that takes precedence and in many cases can only do a game turn every few days. Many of the older testers have long since been burned out so we go through a lot of testers.

Most folks aren't too interested in just testing patches so we have a tough time getting new recruits that are willing or able to put in the time. When you consider that you must finish 37 turns in order to get thru the blizzard, that is a daunting task considering so many people want the patch as of yesterday :)

Even identifying bugs, which the testers are good at, takes time. You must first realize a bug exists, sometimes this is easy, sometimes not. Then it needs to be confirmed as a bug, then Pavel gets the task of fixing it, then we must retest it to make sure it is indeed fixed. Sometimes fixing one bug generates others, fortunately though, our resident vulcan Pavel rarely makes that mistake.

So longer term balancing takes time. Just so you know the blizzard effects were tested, just not what I would call extensive. We had several games in progress, only one made it thru the blizzard several days ago using 1.04, data was looked at and adjusted. As more games get there post 1.04 release, more tweaking might be needed since the latest adjustments themselves have yet to be retested.

One last thing I would like to add, the pre-1.04 blizzard IMO was never broke. Over balanced in favor of the Soviets somewhat sure, but not broke. The modifications that were done for 1.04 should be good to go.

Have a nice weekend

Andy

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RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 3:19:43 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

So longer term balancing takes time. Just so you know the blizzard effects were tested, just not what I would call extensive. We had several games in progress, only one made it thru the blizzard several days ago using 1.04, data was looked at and adjusted. As more games get there post 1.04 release, more tweaking might be needed since the latest adjustments themselves have yet to be retested.


Totally understand, I certainly didn't expect you to have played a 100 GCs from Turn 1 through Turn 37, although I was thinking that you might have pulled a bunch of Turn 24 games off the server to get a variety of pre-blizzard start points (Axis winning, Sovs winning, etc.) and then played through the blizzard to see how things end up...

Like everyone else I appreciate the effort you guys are putting in, and understand that further tweaking with be necessary, looking forward to seeing the results.

(in reply to Sabre21)
Post #: 21
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 4:28:15 PM   
Sabre21


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

So longer term balancing takes time. Just so you know the blizzard effects were tested, just not what I would call extensive. We had several games in progress, only one made it thru the blizzard several days ago using 1.04, data was looked at and adjusted. As more games get there post 1.04 release, more tweaking might be needed since the latest adjustments themselves have yet to be retested.


Totally understand, I certainly didn't expect you to have played a 100 GCs from Turn 1 through Turn 37, although I was thinking that you might have pulled a bunch of Turn 24 games off the server to get a variety of pre-blizzard start points (Axis winning, Sovs winning, etc.) and then played through the blizzard to see how things end up...

Like everyone else I appreciate the effort you guys are putting in, and understand that further tweaking with be necessary, looking forward to seeing the results.


I considered that, I even have several earlier savegames myself. The problem is that some of the changes require a fresh start since they have a cumulative effect. The increase in armament points is a case in point. This will allow for more troops to get into the line that accumulate in the pool, more arty, more anti-tank guns, etc.

I'm going to post a request in the aar section about putting up certain screenshots from the game that will help monitor game balance.


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Post #: 22
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 4:51:32 PM   
JAMiAM

 

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By the way, folks...the public beta patch is out and ready for y'all!

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Post #: 23
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 5:01:01 PM   
Joel Billings


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We came to believe that the frostbite percentage was too high, especially combined with the German supply difficulties during the first winter, and the combined effect was sending too many Germans to the disabled pool. On the other hand, the number of troops sent to the disabled pool was not high enough in general in the game. As we looked at issues of casualties and how many were evacuated from the area and how long they were out of service, we began to think that the amount of troops disabled was not high enough. We were relying on the damage system to keep a lot of troops unavailable to represent casualties, but this wasn't doing the job. So we came up with two ideas. One was the transit pool that causes some of the rotated damaged elements to remain unavailable for a longer period of time. The second was increasing the percentage disabled from damaged elements sent back to the pool (from 20% to 40%). All of these factors have to be taken together. As Andy indicated, test resources are limited for a game this big. Taking games midway and continuing on was possible, but part of what we were trying to do was change the dynamic so that the Germans would not be as well off going into the first winter (of course neither are the Soviets in some ways). Andy managed to solo hotseat a game through winter, which gave us some good info while other testers continued on in their games and found issues that Pavel was able to fix. A lot of AI vs AI tests were run, and I'd say it's likely that without the first winter nightmare, a good player may want to bump up his play level a bit against the Soviet AI in the long campaign. From a balancing point of view, we'll really be looking for new games started with 1.04, although everyone is welcome to upgrade mid-game and help us find other issues with the game. Exactly what the impact will be of switching mid-game is impossible to say given all the variables, but you will be playing with a set of rules that we think more accurately simulates the War in the East and will be able to take advantage of a myriad of bug fixes and new features. For any tournament or very competitive games in-progress, I'd suggest you stick with your current version.

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Post #: 24
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 5:15:29 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


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I note that there is still not an "axis win" button...

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Post #: 25
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 5:25:20 PM   
Joel Billings


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Not at all. The Germans will be facing more Soviets in 41 (due to armament changes), and should find themselves more ground down during the summer/fall campaign (due to disabled changes and increased movement attrition).

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Post #: 26
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 5:35:10 PM   
Uxbridge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

... but you will be playing with a set of rules that we think more accurately simulates the War in the East and will be able to take advantage of a myriad of bug fixes and new features. For any tournament or very competitive games in-progress, I'd suggest you stick with your current version.


Now that seems to give me an answer to my earlier question. But what to do now?? We're at GT 8 in GC41. Getting there took us at least six weeks and the situation is very interesting. No way we're going to start all over. To patch or not to patch, that is the question. What a dilemma...

And now the patch arrived also!


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Post #: 27
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/20/2011 5:46:35 PM   
Aditia

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Not at all. The Germans will be facing more Soviets in 41 (due to armament changes), and should find themselves more ground down during the summer/fall campaign (due to disabled changes and increased movement attrition).


Yeah, movement attrition change is probably one of the biggest changes I can identify for the overall game, that combined with changes to interdiction by fighter planes (unless I invented that in my mind only). Mobile reserves behind the lines will no longer be an effective tool to counter breakthroughs anywere on a large section of front line and has to be planned more meticulously. Changes to applying of command bonuses/penalties will also lessen the effectiveness of mobile reserves on the defence.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 28
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/21/2011 3:20:06 AM   
Wild


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Sorry wrong thread. nm.

< Message edited by Wild -- 4/21/2011 3:23:24 AM >

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Post #: 29
RE: Update on next public beta patch - 4/21/2011 11:07:54 AM   
Speedy

 

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From: Reading, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Thanks for the effort, most of the changes look great. A couple of questions:

2) Re partisan supply: I saw this fix, but have asked several times whether partisan supply is working correctly--there seem to be very very few partisan supply flights?



I can verify this is a lot better now. As Pav mentioned Recon can get invovled in Partisan re-supply (which they shouldn't) but now you'll find many re-supply missions occur with between 5-15 planes delivering vital supplies, NKVD Squads etc (these are VITAL to getting the Partisan's going, moving and causing chaos).

Let me know what you think now but my testing on this says it looks pretty good now.

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Post #: 30
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