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Rails to Vyazma!

 
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Rails to Vyazma! - 4/16/2011 4:36:11 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


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I don't do enough testing, I freely admit it. Too much "seat of the pants" play, and trusting gut instincts. However, I have played a lot, quite a few GC vs the AI, at least 6 games (current or over) against people.

When it comes to rail repair, no one strategy is right. However, I think I have seen some players not maximizing their rails in the center. The trick is not to double up (maybe only if you face the absolute worst sort of Comrade Robinski, and even then I am not sure that 1 more hex a turn is worth it...), but to use what you have wisely.

Here is an image of what I do - it is not perfect, there really is no right or wrong. However, it is designed to support the sort of advance that I want to have in my "mobility" thread.

The Center has two repair units. The top helps out the AGN repair unit until they split at the initial swamp - then the top on hugs the rail line along the Baltic Zone (excepting the one place it must dip down) to speed up repair. By turn 14, with proper breakthroughs, it can be in Vyazma and the upper part of the Center can have fairly decent supply.

The lower of the Center units does not drive to Minsk, but rather the long straight rail line just north of the Mashes. By turn 14 it can be beyond Gomel and heading east.

This has allowed me to get more supplies for a Moscow Drive (or threat there), not have to use HQ buildup for the tanks in near Vyazma, and have nice parallel lines to link up north south during mud/snow preparing for emergencies.

Really, this is not perfect, it is just the way I do it...





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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/18/2011 7:58:26 PM   
Altaris

 

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I do this too, makes the most use of the Baltic Rail Repair bonus. I also take the FBD unit west of Brest-Livotsk and send him south, since you really only need 1 line in the center, but you can do a lot of branching off in the wide expanses of the Ukraine.

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/18/2011 9:39:38 PM   
Mynok


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But then you can't do the red line in his picture, and that's really a critical railroad, and the fastest way to get railheads to the south-center area.

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/18/2011 11:07:04 PM   
Q-Ball


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Those are the exact lines I use.

In the North, probably everyone goes the same way: Branch off that blue-line to Riga, then Pskov, then left-turn for Leningrad

In the SOUTH, I send one line toward Kiev, and another from Romania toward Nikolev/D-Town

An important consideration also is creating a Beltway before winter, i.e. a north-south line to link them all together. You can't really move reserves around without it.

For that, I like to go Pskov/Vitebsk/Mogilev/connect to that Red Line

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/19/2011 2:24:38 AM   
Mynok


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And I'll sneak one south to the Kiev line during mud/snow if I can to link up the center east of the marshes.


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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/19/2011 6:57:57 PM   
morantbay

 

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Total noob question here, I am just a few turns into my first campaign.

How do I persuade the rail repair units to actually repair the rail point I wish? This thread suggests you can do this by placing them on the rail line, but when I do this I see repair parties deployed all over the place anyway - very frequently the line deeper into Russia is the last one they decide to get to. As a result, seven turns in they are still swanning about near the border making a nice dense rail network there and little progress east has actually been made. 

I've tried placing them at the juncture between damaged and undamaged rail, as well as a few hexes deeper in on the desired line, I can't see any positive difference either way ....

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/19/2011 8:06:40 PM   
Mynok


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There are three FBD units that you control that are for repairing rail lines. All the little const battalions are run by the computer.

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/20/2011 3:12:05 AM   
morantbay

 

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Thanks for the reply Mynok. I got that the FBD units were for rail repair but I wasn't seeing that tiny blue "RRC" text link on the unit icon to actually make them do it. The scales have fallen from my eyes :-) Thanks.

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/20/2011 4:04:23 AM   
Mynok


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It's never obvious until it is. Then it is.


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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/20/2011 5:25:32 PM   
marty_01

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


There are three FBD units that you control that are for repairing rail lines. All the little const battalions are run by the computer.


Four FBD units ... at least at the start of the 41GC. There is one over in Rumania attached to 11th Army (i think its 11th Army?)

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/20/2011 7:22:03 PM   
JAMiAM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty_01


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


There are three FBD units that you control that are for repairing rail lines. All the little const battalions are run by the computer.


Four FBD units ... at least at the start of the 41GC. There is one over in Rumania attached to 11th Army (i think its 11th Army?)

Actually, five, if you count the one in Rumania. One for AGN, two for AGC, one for AGS, one for 11th Army.

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/21/2011 1:05:15 AM   
marty_01

 

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You're right. My bad. I forgot AGC starts with 2.

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/28/2011 3:34:45 PM   
vilcum

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
In the North, probably everyone goes the same way: Branch off that blue-line to Riga, then Pskov, then left-turn for Leningrad


Maybe only sensate people does that , Vs. computer (only played soviet side in PBEM) a dash for Leningrad may be better served by converting the full baltic states line avoiding pskov and the triple cost over that rail

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/28/2011 4:41:27 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


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Actually, as Q-Ball said, the Pskov route is the better one, as it allows the drive south of Leningrad to be more fully supported too.


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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/28/2011 4:52:48 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


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Perhaps a bit more open to play style, here is my southern rails routes. The reason for these paths is to maximize my speed to the east. If one remembers my Gomel route in AGC, then the fact that the AGS line goes further south makes more sense. I drive to Lvov if at all possible on turn 1 to jumpstart this line (having converted hexes to and through Lvov means full speed rail on turn 2) The 11th Army line goes to the Dnepr Bend to supply any push beyond Stalino (one of the logistic sore points).

The problem always is lateral lines, if the advance is too far or too fast, the chance of linking up before middle blizzard is tough.

Your mileage again will vary.






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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/28/2011 5:26:41 PM   
Farfarer

 

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A variant is to send the Green FBD up from Chernovsty in Romania( after sending it there by RR) , as was common in the old WITE (paper). All the RR Bots will convert the Lvov pocket are for you - there will be many of these chomping away. You can even send it to Kirovograd/D Town/Stalino and send the Purple FBD down into the Northern Crimea ( or further) if you are a Crimea/Kuban attack fanboy.

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/28/2011 5:41:46 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


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The problem with that, for me at least, is that the southern part of the Lvov Pocket finishes up the last, thus costing several turns of full builds. I have found that clearing and converting the rail path early on works the best. The annoying autofill around Lvov is still there, of course, but I can get a jump on supplying the south through Lvov.

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/28/2011 6:35:00 PM   
Q-Ball


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RE: Pskov, I build there in the North; realize going through Estonia is quicker, but a) you lose some of the speed because you convert more hexes, and b) that move can ONLY support the Leningrad area. You will still have to build to Pskov, if you want to start linking all your lines together. It's more efficient to just build to Pskov, and turn left for Leningrad, then come back and build south from Pskov to link-up with AGC's lines.

PDH, those are good in the south, a couple options:

1. I prefer to send the green line more through Kiev; that makes it easy to link up with an AGC FBD coming down through Gomel/Chernigov

2. Blue is good, except that if you are going deep in the Crimea, you have to build closer than Nikolev, or during mud, all your units in the Crimea will be out of supply and isolated; it's too many MPs to the railhead.

You have to think not only of building East, but also North/South, because you need a "beltway" during the winter to move troops along the front lines

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/28/2011 6:41:41 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


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I know, my biggest problem is always taking too much land east. Beltways suffer until later in blizzard because of the need to extend railheads since I am too far to the east.

If I pummel the Crimea, I can have sea supply from Kerch...at least that is the goal

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/28/2011 8:16:49 PM   
sath

 

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OK so I agree with the blue and red rail line routes. But why split one at the swamp hex then to Riga and then to Pskov. Why not split them at Daugavpils then one to Pskov and the other to Vyazma.

For the red one do you back it up with the Southern repair unit. then what about the 11th army repair unit.

Thanks

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/28/2011 10:26:07 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


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I don't double up the repair, having 5 lines is more important and easier to beltway. I don't do the Daugabpils route in part because in the Baltic region the repair always outruns the hex limit, and so it seems there is less good to double here and another line adds more redundancy to the supply - important now I think.

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 4/28/2011 11:33:27 PM   
pompack


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And to complicate things, the partisans in 1.04.11 are now really annoying. EVERY Rumanian, Hungarian and Slovokian infantry was assigned to rear area security and garrison duty along with EVERY security division (broken into regiments) and a fort on every garrison town. Also I pulled one infantry division off the line, broke it into regiments and used it for security. And I still lost one turn of build on Route 1 (north), FIVE turns of build on Route 2 through Smolensk, amd one turn on route 3 through Gomel. It's really worse than that because in some cases I didn't move the FDB and the next turn it still couldn't build and in other cases I diverted the FDB back to repair the break and lost most of the subsequent turn's build as well.

Per Joel the partisans will be toned down a bit in the next patch. However right now it gets ugly since you need every hex of rail when the mud comes unless you are having a dud offensive; a single break up the line before you get your cross-links in is devastating.

EDIT: I really need a spell checker

< Message edited by pompack -- 4/28/2011 11:35:30 PM >

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 8/1/2011 7:19:47 PM   
Balou


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Another way to look at rail repair is from the economy viewpoint ie MPs. I just started to reconsider may rail repair layout for AGS.
First: each FBD has 16 MPs per week/turn = 272 MPs until mud in turn 18
Second: there are three popular routes from the Roumanian border towards D-town and/or Stalino, depending on what's your intentions and capabilities. Attachements shows the costs in terms of MPs. If it's paramount to reach D-town and Stalino as fast as possible, then it's definitly the orange route. If the Crimea has to be connected, then its yellow or white, requires Odessa, and Stalino will have to wait.
Third: when the southern hook is successful, I always take the "Lvov"-FBD along to Chernovtsy. I may only start rail repair in week 3, but it's much faster from there to Vinnitsa then from Lvov.






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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 8/1/2011 7:37:06 PM   
Balou


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The Chernovtsy-Vinnitsa Railroad

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 8/1/2011 7:49:48 PM   
Balou


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MPs for FBD3. I sometimes use the northern route for the second leg, since it offers a better possibility to build lateral drives towards FBD4.

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 8/1/2011 7:51:44 PM   
Balou


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AGC northern routes




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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 8/1/2011 8:22:37 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Balou

Another way to look at rail repair is from the economy viewpoint ie MPs. I just started to reconsider may rail repair layout for AGS.
First: each FBD has 16 MPs per week/turn = 272 MPs until mud in turn 18
Second: there are three popular routes from the Roumanian border towards D-town and/or Stalino, depending on what's your intentions and capabilities. Attachements shows the costs in terms of MPs. If it's paramount to reach D-town and Stalino as fast as possible, then it's definitly the orange route. If the Crimea has to be connected, then its yellow or white, requires Odessa, and Stalino will have to wait.
Third: when the southern hook is successful, I always take the "Lvov"-FBD along to Chernovtsy. I may only start rail repair in week 3, but it's much faster from there to Vinnitsa then from Lvov.







This is interesting, and more folks should show what Rail Repair they do.

I will say on this one, the shortest distance to D-Town isn't the only consideration. I prefer the Southern Route here, because you need that if you want to supply troops in the Crimea. Without it, you can't advance into the Crimea at all.

Same with the AGC northern routes below; the Vishney route is slightly shorter, but you need the line through Smolensk to better supply units on the push to Moscow.

Also, North/South lines are as important as east-west when it comes to Blizzard. this is another important consideration; setting up the lines so it's also easy to build a "beltway" north-south, in order to facilitate the deployment of reserves during blizzard.

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 8/1/2011 10:50:04 PM   
Balou


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As I said, the fastest way to D-town leaves the Crimea unsupplied.
I just completed my rail line "analysis" in the south. Here it is. BTW, if someone wants to further down into the Crimea and continue towards Stalino, its not as slow as I first suspected.
Note: there has been an error with the MPs to Stalino via Zaporo (pink line), numbers have changed.




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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 8/1/2011 11:42:59 PM   
Michael T


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I always double up the RR guys. After 10 turns, with the kinks and S bends you can end up with 20 extra hexes converted as opposed to a single RR per line.

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RE: Rails to Vyazma! - 8/2/2011 12:25:48 AM   
sveint


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Going through Odessa is risky as you are vulnerable to naval assault. Need several Romanian coastal garrisons at minimum.

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