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RE: Welle 16 to 35

 
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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/15/2012 4:33:47 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 2766
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
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quote:

Is there a flamethrower in the standard .eqp file?


I don't think so. The only one I'm aware of is the mounted 251/16 in the SP Gun section.

(in reply to polarenper)
Post #: 91
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/15/2012 6:29:40 AM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 1297
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

I'm beginning to think most everyone on this forum is either unemployed or retired.

Rrrong! *Arnie accent* Please rephrase Kamerad Panama... devoted, fanatic, the Old Guard, dedicated, nicotine and codeine junkies, or simply... self-employed and very well organized *Germans perhaps...*

I started sharing my collection of TO&E, OOB, .pdf via Dropbox with Fritz aka polarenper, so everybody is welcome to access it and share stuff *which is in public domain etc.*.

Klink, Oberst
self-employed, hard working, able admin of STALAG13 :P



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Post #: 92
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/16/2012 7:43:42 AM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 269
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

It's beginning to look like i should revise at least the first welle. Anyway, I've figured out where my numbers came from. The three companies are shown with 9 l.M.G squads each. In addition the have 6 flamethrowers each. I've counted them in as squads, for some reason. Is there a flamethrower in the standard .eqp file?
EDIT: I can see 3 (i thik it's a 3!) mortars for each kp. but no schwere kp?

Keep it coming if you have the patience. I'm keeping a list of things i should change!


Pio Bats had no schwere Kp. Instead each Kp had a schwere Zug. Each Zug in turn had 2 sMG and 2 81mm Gw. You can see this in the 44 B Pdf of the file you posted.

I haven't really had time to look over things yet, but I'll let you know if I find anything.

(in reply to polarenper)
Post #: 93
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/16/2012 1:16:33 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 350
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline
Ok, i couldn't resist it. I went and started a revision of the 1st Welle, using original KStN as far as possible. It's time consuming, and not always possible to locate the KStN, but it's yielded quite different numbers from the sources i used before. I've also given up on the stock .eqp, and assumed use of a WW2 specific .eqp. Since the one I have been working with for my Berlin scenario includes different kinds of MG's for the Germans, i have rendered all squads as rifle squads, except various personnel in HQ units armed only with rifles, who are shown as light rifle squads. I have also done away with the light rifle squads in the AT units etc. These are now shown simply as MG's.

Details to follow.

< Message edited by polarenper -- 3/16/2012 1:28:54 PM >


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(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 94
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/16/2012 1:46:00 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 350
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline
Divisional Headquarters
(KstN 21 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn211nov41.htm )
10 Light Rifle squads (13 men/squad)
2 LMG
27 Trucks

An infantry division at this time had three regiments, each
with three battalions, and a Stab.

Total equipment for 1 regiment:

Stab:
(KstN 101(R) http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn101r1okt37.htm )
2 Light Rifle Squads
2 Horse Drawn Wagons
2 Trucks
1 Motorcycle Squad

Nachrichtenzug des Stabes eines Infanterieregiments:
(KStN 221 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn2215okt37.htm )
2 Light Rifle Squads
3 Horse Drawn Wagons

Rgts.Pio.Zug
(KstN 196 original not found. Reference Tessin vol.15 p. 151, for numbers of weapons; http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_id-1_welle.html )
4 Pioneer Squads
3 LMG

Infanteriegeschutzkompanie (infantry gun company):
(KStN 171 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1711okt37.htm )
6 7.5 cm le.IG 18
2 15 cm s.IG 33
15 Horse Drawn Wagons

Infanteriepanzerabwehrkompanie:
(KStN 184 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1841okt37.htm )
4 l.MG
12 3.7 cm PAK
39 Trucks

Radf. Zug (Bicycle Platoon):
(KStN 353, only one zug used. http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn3531sept39.htm )
3 Bicycle Squads
3 l.M.G

leichte infanteriekolonne:
(KStN 201 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn201t20okt39.htm )
2 Light Rifle Squads
37 Horse Drawn Wagons

Next, the 3 Battalions;

Stab:
(KStN: 111(R) http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1111okt37.htm)
1 Bicycle Squad
3 Light Rifle Squads
3 Trucks
8 Horse Drawn Wagons

M.G.KP.:
(Tessin gives KStN 151 C, http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn151c1feb41.htm which is dated 1941. An alternative is KStN 151 (A), http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn151a1okt37.htm dated 1937. The difference being the absence of mortars in the latter. Below I have used 151 C. )
12 s.MG
4 Rifle Squads
6 8cm Mortars
24 Horse Drawn Wagons

Schutzen Kompanie x 3
(KStN 131 C http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131ct23okt39.htm )
1 company
1 Light Rifle Squad
9 Rifle Squads
4 LMG
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_id-1_welle.html gives 1 company as
9 Rifle Squads
2 LMG
3 5cm Mortars
take your pick!

Complete Regiment:
18 Light Rifle Squads
153 Horse Drawn Wagons
50 Trucks
1 Motorcycle Squad
4 Pioneer Squads
14 l.MG
36 s.MG
6 7.5 cm Le.IG 18
2 15 cm s.IG 33
12 3.7 cm PAK
6 Bicycle Squads
39 Rifle Squads
18 8 cm Mortars

panzerjaegerabteilung:
Stab including signals unit:
(KStN 1106 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn11061nov41.htm & 1192 quoted at feldgrau forums )
4 Light Rifle Squads
40 Trucks
17 Jeeps

panzerjaegerkompanie x3:
(KStN 1141 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn11411nov41.htm )
1 company:
6 l.MG
12 3.7 cm PAK
22 Trucks
4 Jeeps

radf.schwadr:
(KStN 353 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn3531sept39.htm )
10 Bicycle Squads
18 l.MG
3 5 cm Mortars
7 Trucks

Complete panzerjaegerabteilung:
4 Light Rifle Squads
113 Trucks
29 Jeeps
36 l.MG
36 3.7 cm PAK
10 Bicycle Squads
3 5 cm Mortars
12 2 cm Flak (These are listen in one source [Div.Tr.Inf.Div. 1Welle] as Masch.Gew.Kp.(S)(mot Z.). I have no KStN for it, nor does it appear in Tessins Gliederung for the 1st Welle. If you include it, I would also include 12 additional trucks.)


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(in reply to polarenper)
Post #: 95
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/16/2012 5:42:29 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 2766
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: offline
quote:

I've also given up on the stock .eqp, and assumed use of a WW2 specific .eqp.


Are you using the Wilson.eqp or Weichs.eqp ? (If you don't know which is which, see posts 24 and 25 in the TOE thread).

Do you plan on doing a .pdf similar to the previous one you did ?

(in reply to polarenper)
Post #: 96
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/17/2012 11:32:35 AM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 269
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

Rgts.Pio.Zug
(KstN 196 original not found. Reference Tessin vol.15 p. 151, for numbers of weapons; http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_id-1_welle.html )
4 Pioneer Squads
3 LMG


http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/41_organ_army/41_id_01-welle.html

Regimental Pio Platoon seems to have had 3 Squads in 41.


quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper
Schutzen Kompanie x 3
(KStN 131 C http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131ct23okt39.htm )
1 company
1 Light Rifle Squad
9 Rifle Squads
4 LMG
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_id-1_welle.html gives 1 company as
9 Rifle Squads
2 LMG
3 5cm Mortars
take your pick!


Infantry Platoons were increased to 4 Squads in 40-41. Also the ATR's are missing.

http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/41_organ_army/41_id_01-welle.html


quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper
panzerjaegerabteilung:

radf.schwadr:
(KStN 353 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn3531sept39.htm )
10 Bicycle Squads
18 l.MG
3 5 cm Mortars
7 Trucks



Never seen Infantry attached to Divisional AT units. Where did you get this from?


For some more general information:

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/General/site_map.htm

I can't double check all his sources but what he does mention seems to check out.

(in reply to polarenper)
Post #: 97
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/17/2012 11:03:13 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 350
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

Rgts.Pio.Zug
(KstN 196 original not found. Reference Tessin vol.15 p. 151, for numbers of weapons; http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_id-1_welle.html )
4 Pioneer Squads
3 LMG


http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/41_organ_army/41_id_01-welle.html

Regimental Pio Platoon seems to have had 3 Squads in 41.


quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper
Schutzen Kompanie x 3
(KStN 131 C http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131ct23okt39.htm )
1 company
1 Light Rifle Squad
9 Rifle Squads
4 LMG
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_id-1_welle.html gives 1 company as
9 Rifle Squads
2 LMG
3 5cm Mortars
take your pick!


Infantry Platoons were increased to 4 Squads in 40-41. Also the ATR's are missing.

http://niehorster.orbat.com/011_germany/41_organ_army/41_id_01-welle.html


quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper
panzerjaegerabteilung:

radf.schwadr:
(KStN 353 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn3531sept39.htm )
10 Bicycle Squads
18 l.MG
3 5 cm Mortars
7 Trucks



Never seen Infantry attached to Divisional AT units. Where did you get this from?


For some more general information:

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/General/site_map.htm

I can't double check all his sources but what he does mention seems to check out.



I don't know if i want to redo the whole document at the moment. I'll see how it goes with that.

For the pioneer zug;
I'm talking 1939 for the 1st welle, rather than 1941. Now, KStN 196 which Tessin quotes for the zug is dated 1940, but i can't find a copy of it, so it is irrelevant for our purposes. Tessin gives 77 men for this unit, and the closest KStN i found, 714, for a motorized light pionierkompanie dated 1938, gives 58 men with 11 pistols, 3 l.MG and 47 rifles. Hence i think 4 squads is a reasonable guess for a non-motorized unit in 1939.

Next,the schutzen kompanie.
The KStN i quoted shows 4 gruppen of 7 men each, which seems a bit small to warrant a whole rifle squad each, but then again...
I'm aware of the missing AT-rifles, and for the moment i have also left out the 5cm mortars. Both weapons appear on KStN 131 (C), dated 1941, which may be closer to the one used in 1939 than the one i used.

The AT unit is straight from Tessin. As for the Bayonet strength site, i am aware of it, but i am trying to avoid it at the moment. I want to find my own interpretation of the available sources. I did consult the Buchner book he quotes back when i first started this project, but found it lacked detail on the variations between welles.

Anyway, Lexikon der Wehrmacht and Dr. Leo both show the bicycle squadron attached to the recon unit, along with a cavalry unit and a heavy (armoured car) unit. Tessin shows, confusingly, only the bicycle unit, and no recon unit at all!

I'll need to re-evaluate that bit when i continue.

_____________________________

السلام عليكم

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 98
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/18/2012 5:58:14 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 1297
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
@polarenper

The easiest way is to proceed as you've already done Friedrich. I simply would add the source. It really depends on the scenario designer, as well as the documents one uses for relevant TO&E adjustments.

@MechFO
Eidgenosse, send me an email in order to add you to my Dropbox. We have already quite a collection of reference material.

oberst_klink@btopenworld.com

Klink, Oberst

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam
(Marcus Porcius Cato Censorius)

Visit the Gefechtsstand!

(in reply to polarenper)
Post #: 99
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/18/2012 7:52:33 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 350
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline
I'll keep fiddling with the KStN, and try to sneak in a few new formations here and there. I'll follow the new format with links or at least quotations for sources. Please keep up the corrections. Makes it easier to get to the right (or at least closest) source. Turns out even Tessin (shock! horror!) is wrong sometimes... Now if i could only justify spending $500 on those new reference volumes...

_____________________________

السلام عليكم

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)
Post #: 100
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/18/2012 9:44:12 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 350
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline
Here we go again. Before i start with my next attempt at nailing down the TO&E, i should say that i'm using Bill Wilsons Second World War Database now.

Now, if you'll pardon the repetition, here is what I've got so far. Comments encouraged!

PS I've omitted the totals for regiments etc, as my lack of math skills mean it takes as long as the research itself to total the various units up! And even then i still get it wrong usually...

Divisional Headquarters
(KstN 21 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn211nov41.htm )
10 Light Rifle squads (13 men/squad)
2 LMG
27 Trucks

An infantry division at this time had three regiments, each with three battalions, and a Stab.
Total equipment for 1 regiment:

Stab:
(KstN 101(R) http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn101r1okt37.htm )
2 Light Rifle Squads
2 Horse Drawn Wagons
2 Trucks
1 Motorcycle Squad

Nachrichtenzug des Stabes eines Infanterieregiments:
(KStN 221 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn2215okt37.htm )
2 Light Rifle Squads
3 Horse Drawn Wagons

Rgts.Pio.Zug
(KstN 196 original not found. Reference Tessin vol.15 p. 151, for numbers of weapons; http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_id-1_welle.html )
4 Pioneer Squads
3 LMG

Infanteriegeschutzkompanie (infantry gun company):
(KStN 171 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1711okt37.htm )
6 7.5 cm le.IG 18
2 15 cm s.IG 33
15 Horse Drawn Wagons

Infanteriepanzerabwehrkompanie:
(KStN 184 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1841okt37.htm )
4 l.MG
12 3.7 cm PAK
39 Trucks

Radf. Zug (Bicycle Platoon):
(KStN 353, only one zug used. http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn3531sept39.htm )
3 Bicycle Squads
3 l.M.G

leichte infanteriekolonne:
(KStN 201 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn201t20okt39.htm )
2 Light Rifle Squads
37 Horse Drawn Wagons

Next, the 3 Battalions;

Stab:
(KStN: 111(R) http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1111okt37.htm)
1 Bicycle Squad
3 Light Rifle Squads
3 Trucks
8 Horse Drawn Wagons

M.G.KP.:
(Tessin gives KStN 151 C, http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn151c1feb41.htm which is dated 1941. An alternative is KStN 151 (A), http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn151a1okt37.htm dated 1937. The difference being the absence of mortars in the latter. Below I have used 151 C. )
12 s.MG
4 Rifle Squads
6 8cm Mortars
24 Horse Drawn Wagons

Schutzen Kompanie x 3
(KStN 131 C http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn131c1feb41.htm )

1 company:
1 Light Rifle Squad
12 Rifle Squads (7 men +1 MG34 each)
12 LMG (Use your preference here. The database includes MG34 as a separate weapon)
3 Panzerbuechse
3 5 cm Granatwerfer

http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_id-1_welle.html gives 1 company as
9 Rifle Squads
2 LMG
3 5cm Mortars
take your pick!
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Zusatz/Heer/Gliederung.htm also lists 90 panzerbuechse for the division as a whole, which, logically means 30 per regiment, or according to the KstN, 27 per regiment.

panzerjaegerabteilung:

Stab including signals unit:
(KStN 1106 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn11061nov41.htm &1192 quoted at feldgrau forums )
4 Light Rifle Squads
40 Trucks
17 Jeeps

panzerjaegerkompanie x3:
(KStN 1141 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn11411nov41.htm )

1 company:
6 l.MG
12 3.7 cm PAK
22 Trucks
4 Jeeps

radf.schwadr:
(This included by Tessin, who excludes the whole aufklarungs abteilung instead. No other sources show this unit here.)
(KStN 353 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn3531sept39.htm )
10 Bicycle Squads
18 l.MG
3 5 cm Mortars
7 Trucks

Masch.Gew.Kp.(S)(mot Z.)
12 2 cm Flak (These are listen in one source [Div.Tr.Inf.Div. 1Welle] as Masch.Gew.Kp.(S)(mot Z.). It also appears on http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/1infdiv.html I have no KStN for it, nor does it appear in Tessins Gliederung for the 1st Welle. If you include it, I would also include 12 additional trucks.)


Artilerie Regiment:

Stab:
(No copy of KstN 401 could be found. Tessin, vol. 15, p. 152, lists 43 men, 28 horses, 4 horse drawn vehicles, 4 motor vehicles, 6 motorcycles and 1 bicycle. The below is based on this data, plus the corresponding unit in an infantry regiment. http://downloads.sturmpanzer.net/KStN_Bd/T78R392_H1_007.pdf lists KstN 401 dated 1945. I have ignored this, as I feel the differences would be too great.)
2 Light Rifle Squads
4 Horse Drawn Wagons
4 Trucks
1 Motorcycle Squad

Rgts.Nachr.zug:
(No copy of KstN 551 could be found. Tessin, vol. 15, p. 152, lists 51 men, 41 horses, 5 horse drawn vehicles The below is based on this data, plus the corresponding unit in an infantry regiment.)
2 Light Rifle Squads
5 Horse Drawn Wagons

Stb.lei.Artl.Abt x3:
(No copy of KstN 403 could be found. Tessin, vol. 15, p. 152, lists 41 men, 27 horses, 4 horse drawn vehicles, 3 motor vehicles, and 5 bicycles. http://downloads.sturmpanzer.net/KStN_Bd/T78R392_H1_007.pdf lists KSTn 403a (teilmot.) dated 1945. I have ignored it, as I feel the differences would be too great.

_____________________________

السلام عليكم

(in reply to polarenper)
Post #: 101
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 8/8/2012 1:28:19 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 350
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline
I found myself with spare time, so here is an update. Apologies for the repetition of some material from the previous post.

Artilerie Regiment:

Stab:
(No copy of KstN 401 could be found. Tessin, vol. 15, p. 152, lists 43 men, 28 horses, 4 horse drawn vehicles, 4 motor vehicles, 6 motorcycles and 1 bicycle. The below is based on this data, plus the corresponding unit in an infantry regiment. http://downloads.sturmpanzer.net/KStN_Bd/T78R392_H1_007.pdf lists KstN 401 dated 1945. I have ignored this, as I feel the differences would be too great.)
2 Light Rifle Squads
4 Horse Drawn Wagons
4 Trucks
1 Motorcycle Squad
Rgts.Nachr.zug:
(No copy of KstN 551 could be found. Tessin, vol. 15, p. 152, lists 51 men, 41 horses, 5 horse drawn vehicles The below is based on this data, plus the corresponding unit in an infantry regiment.)
2 Light Rifle Squads
5 Horse Drawn Wagons
Stb.lei.Artl.Abt x3:
(No copy of KstN 403 could be found. Tessin, vol. 15, p. 152, lists 41 men, 27 horses, 4 horse drawn vehicles, 3 motor vehicles, and 5 bicycles. http://downloads.sturmpanzer.net/KStN_Bd/T78R392_H1_007.pdf lists KSTn 403a (teilmot.) dated 1945. I have ignored it, as I feel the differences would be too great.
I suggest the following for the unit in TOAW III:
2 Light Rifle Squads
3 Trucks
4 Horse Drawn Wagons

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/1infdiv.html
lists
leichte Artilleriekolonne (32t) (x3) as well.
(KstN 506 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn5061okt37.htm )
I suggest the following for each unit in TOAW:
37 Horse Drawn Wagons
10 Light Rifle Squads (drivers etc. used to defend the unit in an emergency)

Art.Nachr.Zug x3:
KStN 553 – Not found. Tessin, vol 15, p. 152, lists 45 men, 38 horses, and 4 horse drawn vehicles.
I suggest the following for the unit in TOAW III:
4 Horse Drawn Wagons
Art.Verm.Tr (Survey Detachment) x3:
KStN 528 – Not found. Tessin, vol 15, p. 152, lists 10 men, 10 horses, and 1 horse drawn vehicle.
I suggest the following for the unit in TOAW III:
1 Horse Drawn Wagon
lei.Battr. (Light Battery) x6 (Later increased to x9)
(KStN 433 – No early version found. 433 dated 1944 can be seen at http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn4331mar44.htm . The arrangement with two batteries per battalion was due to a lack of artillery. This is mentioned in Keitel's memoirs. (Available for free from the despicable Mr. Irving at http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Keitel/index.html )

Tessin lists:
1026 men, 882 horses, 90 horse drawn wagons, 6 motor vehicles, and 6 motorcycles.
Looking at the 1944 KstN we can see armament including:
92 carbines, 16 pistols, 8 machine pistols, and 5 light machine-guns for a battery of 4 guns.
For one battery in TOAW I recommend:
4 LeFh 18
5 MG 34
2 Light Rifle Squads (drivers of the horses pulling the guns, equipped with carbines. The rest of the men so armed belonged to the supply or forward observer part of the unit and would likely not have been involved in combat, barring the most desperate situations.)
15 Horse Drawn Wagons
1 Truck



Stb.schw.Artl.Abt
(KstN 405 – No early version found.)
Tessin lists 41 men, 27 horses, 4 horse drawn wagons, 3 motor vehicles, and 5 motorcycles.
KstN 407 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn40716jan43.htm dated January '43 is the closest I have found online. I have ignored it, as the differences are very great.

For TOAW I suggest:
4 Horse Drawn Wagons
3 Trucks
2 Light Rifle Squads

Artl.Nachr.Zug
(KstN 553 – Not found. Tessin lists 45 men, 38 horses, and 4 horse drawn vehicles.
I suggest the following for the unit in TOAW III:
4 Horse Drawn Wagons

Artl.Verm.Tr
KStN 528 – Not found. Tessin lists 10 men, 10 horses, and 1 horse drawn vehicle.
I suggest the following for the unit in TOAW III:
1 Horse Drawn Wagon

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/1infdiv.html lists
le.Art.Kol. (18t) (x3)
but gives no KstN.
As an educated guess I suggest the following for TOAW:
23 Horse Drawn Wagons
7 Light Rifle Squads


Schw.Battr. (x2 according to Tessin, x3 according to everyone else)
KstN 456 – Not found. Tessin lists 346men, 272 horses, 38 horse drawn vehicles, 2 motorcycles and 14 bicycles for the two batteries combined.

I suggest the following for the unit (one battery) in TOAW:
4 s.FH18 (150mm)
2 Light Rifle Squads
19 Horse Drawn Wagons


Aufklarungsabteilung (not listed in Tessin, taken from http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/1infdiv.html)

Stab
(KstN unknown)
For TOAW I suggest, as a guess:
4 Horse Drawn Wagons
3 Trucks
2 Light Rifle Squads

Nachr.Zug
(KstN unknown, I have used the same as for an infantry regiment staff.)
(KStN 221 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn2215okt37.htm )
2 Light Rifle Squads
3 Horse Drawn Wagons

Reiterschwadron
(KstN unknown. I have used KstN 181 (Reiterzug) and assumed that a schwadron would have 3 zug. I have used the tross elements of a Radfahrschwadron.)
10 Cavalry Squads
18 l.MG
8 Horse Drawn Wagons
3 5cm mortars


radf.schwadr:
(This included by Tessin, who excludes the whole aufklarungs abteilung instead. No other sources show this unit here.)
(KStN 353 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn3531sept39.htm )
10 Bicycle Squads
18 l.MG
3 5 cm Mortars
7 Trucks

Schwere schwadron
(No KstN. See http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/1infdiv.html and http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_id-1_welle.html for my sources.
3 SdKfz 221
2 75mm Infantry Guns
3 37mm AT Guns


Pionier Battalion

Stb.Pi.Btl.
KstN 702 – Not found. KstN 703 is a motorized stab, see http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn7031okt37.htm see also http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_id-1_welle.html and http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=187048 .

As this is a stab unit, I will follow Tessin for vehicles, with reference to the above sources to estimate how many of the personell should be represented as available for fighting.
I suggest:
3 Horse Drawn wagons
2 Trucks
1 Light Rifle Squad (alternatively Motorcycle Squad)
4 l.MG (by 1944. I somehow doubt these were present in 1939)
Pi.Kp (x2)
KstN 711 – Not found. http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn7111okt37.htm shows KstN 711(Lw) which is Landwehr. The number of men seems to agree with Tessin, so I will take the vehicles from Tessin, and the armament from 711(Lw). See also the forum discussion linked under the stab above.

I suggest:
9 Pionier Squads (Engineers,but personally I would choose Assault squads, considering the German doctrine.)
9 l.MG
(by 1944, but possibly earlier) 2 s.MG
(by 1944, but possibly earlier) 2 8cm mortars
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=187048 also includes 3 AT rifles

le. Pi.Kp (mot)
Tessin doesn't show this, but all other sources are unanimous.
(KstN 714 http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn7141okt38.htm )
In TOAW
9 Pionier Squads (Engineers,but personally I would choose Assault squads, considering the German doctrine.)
9 l.MG
26 Trucks
9 Kubelwagen

Bruckko B
No KstN. See http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn7331jun44.htm for the same unit in '44. http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/011_germany/39_organ_army/39_id-1_welle.html also shows the unit as motorized in '39, so i'll follow the '44 KstN below.

In TOAW:
16 Ferry-Bridging Teams (based on the number of pontoons carried by the unit. Use your own judgement.)
3 l.MG
38 Trucks
4 Light Rifle Squads (drivers)



l.Pi.Kolonne
(KstN 741 dated '43 was the closest I could find.)

In TOAW:
14 Trucks
2 l.MG
4 Light Rifle Squads (drivers)

_____________________________

السلام عليكم

(in reply to polarenper)
Post #: 102
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 8/8/2012 2:25:37 PM   
Telumar


Posts: 2006
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline
Just for clarity - this refers to the 1st Welle Inf Divisions, does it?

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(in reply to polarenper)
Post #: 103
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 8/8/2012 3:29:36 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 350
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline
Yes, still 1st welle.

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السلام عليكم

(in reply to Telumar)
Post #: 104
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