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RE: Welle 16 to 35

 
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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 6/27/2011 10:46:17 AM   
polarenper


Posts: 281
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline 		Next version, including corrections and some Croat divisions (which were a pain due to their custom TO&E!) can be found here.

A couple more divisions and we get to the Neue Art divisions, which should be interesting.

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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 7/22/2011 2:48:23 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 281
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline 		Slow progress, but here is the next installment. Only three divisions done with TO&E and all this time, but one of those is probably the most detailed I've done so far.

More to come, assuming I'm not distracted by my map-making project during my vacation.

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Post #: 62
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 7/22/2011 2:53:37 PM   
Panama


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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 7/22/2011 2:59:35 PM   
polarenper


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Status: offline 		Who else would spent hours figuring out what kind of French howitzer a certain division used?

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Post #: 64
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 7/23/2011 10:32:27 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 2296
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Status: online 		You might want to check the Rifle Squad count for the 369 and 373 Div's - there might be a discrepancy between the division count and the component count.

For the TOE.2 file, there are no 'AT Squads', so I took the liberty of giving the AT Abt for the above two units '(24) 37mm Door Knockers'.

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Post #: 65
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 7/23/2011 10:50:59 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 2296
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: online 		From page 97 -

quote:

22 Sturmhaubitzen (no source as to which mark – I would guess StuH42)


I like to think I can usually figure these things out, but in this case I'm not sure what is meant by the 'Sturmhaubitzen' because as far as I know the StuH 42 was only issued to Panzer Divisions. If I had to guess, I would think that they mean the StuG 75/48, which was very numerous from '42 on.

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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 7/23/2011 11:03:45 AM   
polarenper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

You might want to check the Rifle Squad count for the 369 and 373 Div's - there might be a discrepancy between the division count and the component count.

For the TOE.2 file, there are no 'AT Squads', so I took the liberty of giving the AT Abt for the above two units '(24) 37mm Door Knockers'.



No discrepancy, just my lazy cutting and pasting again. These divisions had no training battalion, so the reference to one should be deleted.

The door knockers seem fair enough. It seems they were starting to be phased out of the "proper" units about this time, so giving them to the Croats would seem logical.

As ever, thanks for catching the mistakes!



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Post #: 67
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 7/23/2011 11:25:46 AM   
polarenper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

From page 97 -

quote:

22 Sturmhaubitzen (no source as to which mark – I would guess StuH42)


I like to think I can usually figure these things out, but in this case I'm not sure what is meant by the 'Sturmhaubitzen' because as far as I know the StuH 42 was only issued to Panzer Divisions. If I had to guess, I would think that they mean the StuG 75/48, which was very numerous from '42 on.


This hits on my weakness; i don't know much about AFV's (yet). Ask me about fighter planes instead!

However, some further research has revealed that there was no 282 abt. Only one source mentions it. Tessin doesn't list it at all.

Instead it seems the abteilung in question was the 905th. On this i have the following:

Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 905

Sturmgeschütz-Brigade 905 (Feb 44)

Heeres-Sturmartillerie-Brigade 905 (Fall 44)

Dec 42 - formed at Jüterbog, with three batteries

Mar 43 - arrives in 7th Army's sector

Apr 43 - transferred from 7th Army, France

Jul 43 - Corps Raus, Armee Abteilung Kempf, Army Group South (23 StuG III and 9 StuH 42; 23 vehicles operational and 8 under repair)

Aug 43 - attached to 282nd Infantry Division, XLII Corps, 8th Army, Army Group South (2 StuGs operational 21 under repair)

Jan 44 - assigned to XI Corps, 8th Army, Army Group South, Kirovograd; later Fourth Rumanian/Eighth Army, Army Group South Ukraine

Aug 44 - Eighth Army, Army Group South Ukraine

1945 Fifth Panzer Army (Eifel and Rhine), after rebuilding

So it seems logical to assume that when the unit was re-assigned it lost its StuH's and retained its StuG III's.

Make sense to you?

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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 7/23/2011 9:07:11 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

Make sense to you?


Yes, but I see now a lot of StuH 42's in the independent StuG units, so I'm glad I looked because another source said they were in the Pz Div's (it didn't say they were 'only' in the Pz Div's).

I wouldn't include StuG 905 in the 282.Inf standard TOE.

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Post #: 69
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 7/28/2011 1:30:41 PM   
polarenper


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Status: offline 		I still need to check up on this, but it seems the StuGs were there pretty much from the get go with this division. I have been thinking of listing the StuG units separately when i get on to the panzers (sometime in the late 23rd century), but it seems convenient to me to have them listed along with the divisions they were assigned to. Otherwise they might get left out (and THAT would obviously precipitate severe earthquakes, tsunamis and the end of the world generally, due to the displeasure of the gods of historical gaming!)



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Post #: 70
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 8/23/2011 6:27:39 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 281
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From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline 		Here is the next bit. Getting into the new stuff now! Also getting close to finishing the infantry.

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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 8/23/2011 7:51:08 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

You might want to check the Rifle Squad count for the 369 and 373 Div's - there might be a discrepancy between the division count and the component count.

For the TOE.2 file, there are no 'AT Squads', so I took the liberty of giving the AT Abt for the above two units '(24) 37mm Door Knockers'.



No discrepancy, just my lazy cutting and pasting again. These divisions had no training battalion, so the reference to one should be deleted.

The door knockers seem fair enough. It seems they were starting to be phased out of the "proper" units about this time, so giving them to the Croats would seem logical.

As ever, thanks for catching the mistakes!




Maybe you're already doing this, but you might want to mark information that's a guess with an asterisk or something.

A lot of times, when I'm looking at one of this sort of thing, I find myself wondering what actually has some documentation behind it and what's merely a best guess.

The problem's endemic to wargaming, as you have to fill the holes with something. You can't just have 373.Infanterie (undefined) as a unit.


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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 8/23/2011 8:04:47 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 281
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Status: offline 		If i have no source for a unit i state that fact, and also where i got the to&e i decided to use.

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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 8/23/2011 9:41:14 PM   
Telumar


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Status: offline 		The link to www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de in the document's preface has a typo. Just substitute the c in lexicon for a k.

Otherwise, good work!


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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 8/23/2011 10:23:11 PM   
polarenper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telumar

The link to www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de in the document's preface has a typo. Just substitute the c in lexicon for a k.

Otherwise, good work!



Fixed, thanks.

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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 8/24/2011 4:02:12 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 281
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From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline 		Erm, ive made a significant error with the division n.A. they should have significantly more infantry. I've fixed it, and will upload the new version when i get sick of working on it for today.

Sorry!

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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 8/24/2011 11:13:16 PM   
polarenper


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Status: offline 		All right, enough for one day!
Here is the new and improved version.

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Post #: 77
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 9/3/2011 5:38:42 PM   
polarenper


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Status: offline 		That's it! I've finished with the infantry! Get it here!

Next part will start with light/jager and mountain divisions. Then ... well, one thing at a time. But as long as i keep my interest alive I'll eventually get to motorized troops, then armored, and finally SS, Luftwaffe and Navy troops.

EDIT: I should add that I am certain to have missed things. If you find something strange, or thee is something you can't find, give me a shout and I'll look into it. I'll add what's missing or at least explain why it's not been included. Finally, i should say that you are free to do with the document what you like. Host it, email it etc. Just please leave my name in there somewhere!

< Message edited by polarenper -- 9/3/2011 5:49:16 PM >

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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/11/2012 2:15:22 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 281
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Status: offline 		Here we go. The first little segment of the next part of the project. On track for completion in time for the 2222 Olympics in Ulan-Bator.

Get it here.

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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/11/2012 10:37:20 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Status: online 		Uh oh ... what are you working on now grandmaster Fred ?

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Post #: 80
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/12/2012 7:41:23 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 281
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline 		Mountain, light, jaeger, skijaeger, some LW divisions that were taken over by the Heer, and some other stuff. I don't have as much time as i did to devote to this, but the smaller scope means that i should be able to finish it in a reasonable amount of time. Assuming i can find sources on the TO&E of these things, that is.

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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/13/2012 1:24:21 PM   
MechFO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

Mountain, light, jaeger, skijaeger, some LW divisions that were taken over by the Heer, and some other stuff. I don't have as much time as i did to devote to this, but the smaller scope means that i should be able to finish it in a reasonable amount of time. Assuming i can find sources on the TO&E of these things, that is.


Hi
Can you please tell me what Assault Squads are supposed to represent and why you only have 18 Engineer Squads in a 1. Welle Division (should be 9X3?).

Also where do you get that the 20mm flak were part of the Regiments? AFAIK the Flak Bttr were added to the Art Abt as attachments later in the war.


The Div nA:

- you have Hvy Rifle AT Squads (supposed to represent sMG Teams) even though I never heard about sMG teams having Pz Fausts?

- the Pionier Bat has 48! Squads? I know the Inf Regiments were supposed to have up to 6 Squads, but I can't see the Pio Bat alone having 48 (3x16?)

- Artillerie is definitely wrong. According to Deutsche Artillerie 1934-45 Engelmann/Scheibert, the dotation for a Inf Div44 was 36 10.5 and 9 15.5 from 4.3.44 onward. Previously the 25.th - 29.th waves had a mix of 7.5/8.8 ArtPakAbteilungen (6x7.5 or 3x8.8 per bttr) plus 2 x le Abt (12x10.5) and a s Abt (8-12x15).

Regards

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Post #: 82
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/13/2012 2:08:29 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

Mountain, light, jaeger, skijaeger, some LW divisions that were taken over by the Heer, and some other stuff. I don't have as much time as i did to devote to this, but the smaller scope means that i should be able to finish it in a reasonable amount of time. Assuming i can find sources on the TO&E of these things, that is.


Hi
Can you please tell me what Assault Squads are supposed to represent and why you only have 18 Engineer Squads in a 1. Welle Division (should be 9X3?).

Also where do you get that the 20mm flak were part of the Regiments? AFAIK the Flak Bttr were added to the Art Abt as attachments later in the war.


The Div nA:

- you have Hvy Rifle AT Squads (supposed to represent sMG Teams) even though I never heard about sMG teams having Pz Fausts?

- the Pionier Bat has 48! Squads? I know the Inf Regiments were supposed to have up to 6 Squads, but I can't see the Pio Bat alone having 48 (3x16?)

- Artillerie is definitely wrong. According to Deutsche Artillerie 1934-45 Engelmann/Scheibert, the dotation for a Inf Div44 was 36 10.5 and 9 15.5 from 4.3.44 onward. Previously the 25.th - 29.th waves had a mix of 7.5/8.8 ArtPakAbteilungen (6x7.5 or 3x8.8 per bttr) plus 2 x le Abt (12x10.5) and a s Abt (8-12x15).

Regards

Well, the right/wrong discussion is a matter of interpretation of the KStN. I got a complete list and collection of various .PDF from websites, TO&E etc. that I can share.

The PiBtl should have around 24-36 'pure' squads and perhaps 8-12 ferry engineers to reflect the Brücken Kolonne.

The engineer battalion (partly motorized) was made up of battalion staff,
intelligence platoon (mot.), 1st and 2nd engineer companies
(horsedrawn), 3rd engineer company (mot.), bridge column B (mot.) and
light engineer column (horsedrawn). Its entire complement numbered 17
officers, 1 administrator, 60 non-commissioned officers, 442 engineers, 14
saddle horses, 38 draft horses, 19 horsedrawn vehicles, 9 cars, 24 motor-
cycles and 38 trucks (not counting the bridge and light engineer col-
umns).

As for the artillery... the 24 x 10.5cm and 12 x 15cm seems to be the average/norm; not that they always were able to fill the KSt up in later days of WW2.

An artillery regiment consisted of:
- Regimental staff with staff battery
- Three light units, each with a staff battery and three batteries of
four light 18 field howitzers (FH 18) each, 36 1FH 18 in all
- One heavy unit with a staff battery and three batteries, each with
four heavy 18 field howitzers (sFH 18), 12 sFH 18 each
- Supply trains.

Again, it's how one interprets the KStN and the roster/TO&E is a good overall guidance.

Klink, Oberst

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Post #: 83
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/13/2012 2:13:51 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

That's it! I've finished with the infantry! Get it here!

Next part will start with light/jager and mountain divisions. Then ... well, one thing at a time. But as long as i keep my interest alive I'll eventually get to motorized troops, then armored, and finally SS, Luftwaffe and Navy troops.

EDIT: I should add that I am certain to have missed things. If you find something strange, or thee is something you can't find, give me a shout and I'll look into it. I'll add what's missing or at least explain why it's not been included. Finally, i should say that you are free to do with the document what you like. Host it, email it etc. Just please leave my name in there somewhere!


Friedrich,

I got a whole motley collection of various TO&E etc. and you are more than welcome to request/receive the collections of the Oberst :) I am currently creating .TOE files for Kharkov '43 and look what kid of tedious work it is...

Klink, Oberst




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 84
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/13/2012 10:54:00 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 281
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO


quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

Mountain, light, jaeger, skijaeger, some LW divisions that were taken over by the Heer, and some other stuff. I don't have as much time as i did to devote to this, but the smaller scope means that i should be able to finish it in a reasonable amount of time. Assuming i can find sources on the TO&E of these things, that is.


Hi
Can you please tell me what Assault Squads are supposed to represent and why you only have 18 Engineer Squads in a 1. Welle Division (should be 9X3?).


The assault squads represent the pioneer platoon that was attached to each regiment according to this. The pioneer battalion itself is quite beyond me. Well spotted. I'll change that.

quote:


Also where do you get that the 20mm flak were part of the Regiments? AFAIK the Flak Bttr were added to the Art Abt as attachments later in the war.


Scroll to the bottom of this page ,and you will see a list of weapons assigned to a division of the 1st welle. It includes 12 20mm aa guns. I couldn't figure out where they belonged historically, so i made the assumption that in TOAW 3terms they were likely to be somewhere close to the front line, i.e. the regiments.

quote:


The Div nA:

- you have Hvy Rifle AT Squads (supposed to represent sMG Teams) even though I never heard about sMG teams having Pz Fausts?

Firstly, I use heavy rifle squads to represent heavy machine-gun units. I have assigned
one such squad for each heavy machine-gun historically present. I am of the opinion that
the in-game heavy machine-guns give an unfair advantage when fighting armour, since
in the German army the standard heavy machine-gun was 7.92mm calibre, and therefore
not particularly effective against armour. I also believe that weapons like the MG34 and
42 were crew-served, but essentially used as a part of the parent unit, i.e. these weapons,
even if they were assigned to a separate heavy weapons company, would be spread out
among the other companies according to where they could do the most good. For that
reason I can live with any extra manpower resulting from the choice of a rifle squad,
rather than a crew.

This from the introduction that i think you were referring to.

As i said there, i believe the MGs would be spread out among the companies. Further, an MG team could consist of anything from 2-5 or 6 men, going by my reading. Late war, i don't see why these men shouldn't carry a panzerfaust or two, seeing as how the proliferation of tanks made AT resources much more important. Further, the worsening material situation of the Heer meant that "proper" AT resources were increasingly rare.
quote:


- the Pionier Bat has 48! Squads? I know the Inf Regiments were supposed to have up to 6 Squads, but I can't see the Pio Bat alone having 48 (3x16?)

This is from "Grundgliederung inf.div.44 which you can look at here. (From AHF) It is a bit hard to read, but i get 48 squads.

quote:


- Artillerie is definitely wrong. According to Deutsche Artillerie 1934-45 Engelmann/Scheibert, the dotation for a Inf Div44 was 36 10.5 and 9 15.5 from 4.3.44 onward. Previously the 25.th - 29.th waves had a mix of 7.5/8.8 ArtPakAbteilungen (6x7.5 or 3x8.8 per bttr) plus 2 x le Abt (12x10.5) and a s Abt (8-12x15).


The artillery numbers are from here. (lexikon der wehrmacht, scroll down a bit and you'll find the division n.A)


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Post #: 85
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/13/2012 10:58:17 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 281
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From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

Friedrich,

I got a whole motley collection of various TO&E etc. and you are more than welcome to request/receive the collections of the Oberst :) I am currently creating .TOE files for Kharkov '43 and look what kid of tedious work it is...

Klink, Oberst
[snipped the images]


I know what you're saying. This is how far i've gotten with my Berlin effort, without even worrying about the exact TO&E that much yet.

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Post #: 86
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/14/2012 10:17:22 AM   
polarenper


Posts: 281
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline 		Looking into the artillery. I assumed the first time around that the stabs battery would include 4 guns, same as the other batteries. That doesn't seem to have been the case. KStN 583 shows no guns, but several half-tracks and 2 Pz.III forward observer tanks. On the other hand, Artillerie 1941-44.pdf from sturmpanzer.com lists that KStN as a cavalry artillery regiment. I wish i had the time to track down the original KStN for all units and redo this thing that way! Maybe if i quit my day job and divorce my wife...

Anyway, the conclusion has to be, for now, that my list for the n.A division has 12 light guns too many. That is, 4 per battalion. And 4 too many heavy guns.

One final edit before i quit with the arty...

Dug into Tessin. For the div. n.A the KsTN i'm after is 403 for the stab and 433 for the battery. 433 is available on wwiidaybyday.com, but i cant find 403 anywhere. Anyway, Tessin goes on to list 3 l.F.H batteries with 3 guns each, 6 l.F.H batteries with 4 guns each, 3 batteries of s.F.H with 3 guns each. That makes 33 l.F.H and 9 s.F.H.

That leaves 3 l.F.H difference between your numbers and Tessins. I suppose we could account for them by assuming KStN 401 stb.u.stbs.bttr.A.R. includes 3 l.F.H., same as the stab of a battalion. But then we are assuming that KStN 403 stb.u.stbs.bttr.s.F.H.abt. does not include a 3 gun battery. Opinions?

And finally, what about Lexikon der Wehrmacht?
quote:


Artillerieregiment mit
-Stabsbatterie
-3 leichte Abteilung (10,5 cm leFH) mit Stabsbatterie und 3 Batterien zu je 4 Geschützen.
-1 schwere Abteilung (15 cm sFH) mit Stabsbatterie und 3 Batterien zu je 4 Geschützen.
Vorgesehen war, daß eine leichte und die schwere Abteilung im mot.Zug bewegt werden sollten (meist RSO).


Edited for style and content. Twice.

< Message edited by polarenper -- 3/14/2012 11:13:48 AM >

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RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/14/2012 5:12:21 PM   
MechFO

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

Looking into the artillery. I assumed the first time around that the stabs battery would include 4 guns, same as the other batteries. That doesn't seem to have been the case. KStN 583 shows no guns, but several half-tracks and 2 Pz.III forward observer tanks. On the other hand, Artillerie 1941-44.pdf from sturmpanzer.com lists that KStN as a cavalry artillery regiment. I wish i had the time to track down the original KStN for all units and redo this thing that way! Maybe if i quit my day job and divorce my wife...

Anyway, the conclusion has to be, for now, that my list for the n.A division has 12 light guns too many. That is, 4 per battalion. And 4 too many heavy guns.

One final edit before i quit with the arty...

Dug into Tessin. For the div. n.A the KsTN i'm after is 403 for the stab and 433 for the battery. 433 is available on wwiidaybyday.com, but i cant find 403 anywhere. Anyway, Tessin goes on to list 3 l.F.H batteries with 3 guns each, 6 l.F.H batteries with 4 guns each, 3 batteries of s.F.H with 3 guns each. That makes 33 l.F.H and 9 s.F.H.

That leaves 3 l.F.H difference between your numbers and Tessins. I suppose we could account for them by assuming KStN 401 stb.u.stbs.bttr.A.R. includes 3 l.F.H., same as the stab of a battalion. But then we are assuming that KStN 403 stb.u.stbs.bttr.s.F.H.abt. does not include a 3 gun battery. Opinions?

And finally, what about Lexikon der Wehrmacht?
quote:


Artillerieregiment mit
-Stabsbatterie
-3 leichte Abteilung (10,5 cm leFH) mit Stabsbatterie und 3 Batterien zu je 4 Geschützen.
-1 schwere Abteilung (15 cm sFH) mit Stabsbatterie und 3 Batterien zu je 4 Geschützen.
Vorgesehen war, daß eine leichte und die schwere Abteilung im mot.Zug bewegt werden sollten (meist RSO).


Edited for style and content. Twice.



A Stabs Bttr will never have any guns. That is universal across any army. A Stabs Bttr is where the Feuerführung/Feuerleitung and, depending on organization, logistics are concentrated. The discrepancy of gun numbers between different sources comes from that there were about 3 different le FH Abt TOE's in service concurrently at the end of 43, early 44. 2x6, 3x3 and 3x4. I'd go with the 3x4 version as standard due to that being the preferred option, the others being expedients due to what was available on hand.

For the s Abt both 3x3 or 3x4 are reasonable.


(in reply to polarenper)
Post #: 88
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/14/2012 5:46:39 PM   
MechFO

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 6/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper


quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

Also where do you get that the 20mm flak were part of the Regiments? AFAIK the Flak Bttr were added to the Art Abt as attachments later in the war.


Scroll to the bottom of this page ,and you will see a list of weapons assigned to a division of the 1st welle. It includes 12 20mm aa guns. I couldn't figure out where they belonged historically, so i made the assumption that in TOAW 3terms they were likely to be somewhere close to the front line, i.e. the regiments.



I've been wondering where those 20mm come from myself, since I can't find it on any KSTN of that period. I have read that they belonged to a MK company that was habitually attached to Inf Divisions, so strictly speaking not organic. This would explain why they are often mentioned but don't show up in KSTN's until the 37mm AA in the nA KSTN's of 43.

As to where the MK companies were integrated organisation wise, it seems to be either in the Pz Jg Abt (concurrent with the later praxis), but I have also seen it being attached to the Art Reg. Due to the Pz Jg Abt being where they officially ended up in later on, I'd personally go with that option, but this is really a grey area.


quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

The Div nA:

- you have Hvy Rifle AT Squads (supposed to represent sMG Teams) even though I never heard about sMG teams having Pz Fausts?

Firstly, I use heavy rifle squads to represent heavy machine-gun units. I have assigned
one such squad for each heavy machine-gun historically present. I am of the opinion that
the in-game heavy machine-guns give an unfair advantage when fighting armour, since
in the German army the standard heavy machine-gun was 7.92mm calibre, and therefore
not particularly effective against armour. I also believe that weapons like the MG34 and
42 were crew-served, but essentially used as a part of the parent unit, i.e. these weapons,
even if they were assigned to a separate heavy weapons company, would be spread out
among the other companies according to where they could do the most good. For that
reason I can live with any extra manpower resulting from the choice of a rifle squad,
rather than a crew.

This from the introduction that i think you were referring to.

As i said there, i believe the MGs would be spread out among the companies. Further, an MG team could consist of anything from 2-5 or 6 men, going by my reading. Late war, i don't see why these men shouldn't carry a panzerfaust or two, seeing as how the proliferation of tanks made AT resources much more important. Further, the worsening material situation of the Heer meant that "proper" AT resources were increasingly rare.



Thanks for the explanation. The reason for my doubting them having PzF is weight. No MG team will have the spare carrying capacity. Any spare capacity would be used for ammunition.

quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

quote:

ORIGINAL: MechFO

- the Pionier Bat has 48! Squads? I know the Inf Regiments were supposed to have up to 6 Squads, but I can't see the Pio Bat alone having 48 (3x16?)

This is from "Grundgliederung inf.div.44 which you can look at here. (From AHF) It is a bit hard to read, but i get 48 squads.



Thanks for the file, I didn't have it in that detail. As to your numbers, I still can't see how you arrive at 48 Squads for the Pio Bat. The Pio Squads in the Regiments are already accounted for by the Assualt AT Squads, which leaves the standard 3x9 Squads in the Pio Bat.

I've just noticed you are missing the Schw Zug of every Pio Kp in a Pio Bat with 2 sMG and 2 81mm Gw. This can be seen in your KSTN. AFAIK the Pio Kp started having the Schw Zug from 42 onward.


< Message edited by MechFO -- 3/14/2012 5:48:13 PM >

(in reply to polarenper)
Post #: 89
RE: Welle 16 to 35 - 3/14/2012 10:20:41 PM   
polarenper


Posts: 281
Joined: 8/31/2001
From: Currently in Kiev
Status: offline 		It's beginning to look like i should revise at least the first welle. Anyway, I've figured out where my numbers came from. The three companies are shown with 9 l.M.G squads each. In addition the have 6 flamethrowers each. I've counted them in as squads, for some reason. Is there a flamethrower in the standard .eqp file?
EDIT: I can see 3 (i thik it's a 3!) mortars for each kp. but no schwere kp?

Keep it coming if you have the patience. I'm keeping a list of things i should change!

< Message edited by polarenper -- 3/14/2012 10:22:39 PM >

_____________________________

السلام عليكم

(in reply to MechFO)
Post #: 90
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