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RE: Angels over Sadogashima

 
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RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/28/2012 1:37:55 PM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1143
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
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Well you conquered that island with uhm iron and surly have the right to ah uh make it your name or so ...right ?



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Post #: 6211
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/28/2012 1:40:58 PM   
GreyJoy


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Well, Be sure i took a couple of iron wifes...for a good start

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Post #: 6212
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/28/2012 1:50:09 PM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1143
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From: Germany
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Btw I second GreyJoys notion about these books. I rarely read fantasy and I was very sceptical to read them because of the hype but they are realy amazing.

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Post #: 6213
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/28/2012 2:01:57 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 18244
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: Twin Cities, MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Sorry to interrupt, but can anyone please point out an combat that carriers react to enemy carriers that is 7/8 hex away?

You'll have to dig it out, but check out Cap_N_Gown's older AE AAR. Also, PzB's current ongoing match against Andy has at least one 8-hex carrier v. carrier strike that the Allies were unable to react to.

Technically, I don't recall if the carriers 'reacted' to the Allies that were 7/8 hexes distant, they *were* able to launch at 8 hexes though.

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Post #: 6214
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 10:18:37 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6291
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
Waiting for Rader to come back home, here's the status of my CV Fleet:

At my immediate disposal (meaning in combat shape) we have:

CV LexII
CV Intrepid
CV Franklin
CV Hornet
CV HornetII
CVL Bellau Wood

Ready in the next 20 days:
CV Enterprise
CV Indefatigable
CVL Hermes

Ready in 3 months
CV YorkTown
CV Victorious
CV Bunker Hill

Ready in 6/8 months
CVL Indipendence
CVL Bataan
CVL Princeton
CVL Langley
CV Yorktown II
CV Wasp II
CV Indomitable

Plus all the reinforcements coming in...

So for the immediate defence of my LOC we have 5 CVs, 1 CVL and 23 CVE, meaning a force of nearly 500 fighters and 500 attack planes...could be better, i know...but it's always better than nothing

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 6215
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 10:33:01 AM   
GreyJoy


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Now, if we can keep Sadogashima open and if we manage to transform it in an active base, we may be able to have a level 4 port and 7 AF that can support a further invasion of several bases in the northern coast of Japan. Clearly Rader will do everything he can to suppress Sadogashima and so i believe it will soon start a long campaign arial and naval campaign to fight for it...but i believe the sacrifice of my CVs may be prove not completely useless (weel, i know guys...i'm trying to look at the bright side of the situation...to help my morale, you know).
If the allies will be able to keep Sadogashima open and running Rader will have to worry about all those possible beachheads...but at the same time, having 14000 allied AVs threatening those beaches in northern Honshu, he will have to make some compromises in his defences...which may open some prespectives...

There's no reason to lie to ourselfs...the air battle for Sadogashima will probably be the most difficult task we have engaged in so far...defend a base 7 hexes far from our main AF...against superior forces (both in quality and quantity)...the only advantage we have is that we'll be fighting over a base in our hands so Rader is going to lose a whole bunch of pilots...but that's all...

...




Attachment (1)

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 6216
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 10:58:07 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6291
Joined: 3/18/2011
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Oh, one small note... after years of training, the first 2 squadrons (24 planes in total) of escaped chinese volounteer pilots are being moving to WC...they will be joining the fight over Hokkaido within the next month...they are all fervent anti-japanist and they have been training for ages at Karachi...they will arrive with skills that will make the best american aces envious...

When the will be arrived, the allied combined air forces in Hokkaido will be formed by 7 nations:

American (navy, USMC, and USAAF pilots)
British (RAF and RNAF)
Canadian
Australian
New Zelander
Chinese
Indian

talking about a world war....

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 6217
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 11:01:29 AM   
paullus99


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You are slowly, but surely doing exactly what you need to do - create a series of separate pressure points, which forces Rader to divert his attention (and forces - especially in the air). You are still getting him to dance to your beat & not the other way around, so you still have the initiative here.

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 6218
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 11:06:51 AM   
GreyJoy


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Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

You are slowly, but surely doing exactly what you need to do - create a series of separate pressure points, which forces Rader to divert his attention (and forces - especially in the air). You are still getting him to dance to your beat & not the other way around, so you still have the initiative here.


Yes, that is my strategy...altough i cannot deny that keeping the initiative, under this tactical situation, means running every turn a good number of great risks...we're always dancing on the edge of a blade here...and we have to keep our eyes always well open for any countermove rader can do...so to say we always have to check our defences around Hakkodate (both air and naval), the routes of our TFs...every radio signal recieved by my intel...his troops disposition...etc etc... it's stressing...cause you always feel you have forgotten something...that you never have everything under controll... but i guess that's exactly the weight of responsability that every commander in chief has to carry on his shoulders...

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 6219
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 5:19:18 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 7240
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From: Maryland
Status: offline
GJ, Do you have any HR preventing other Allied units operating out of Russian bases once the Russians are active?

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Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 6220
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 5:21:45 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6291
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ, Do you have any HR preventing other Allied units operating out of Russian bases once the Russians are active?



Yup, you bet it

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Post #: 6221
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 5:28:42 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 2621
Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ, Do you have any HR preventing other Allied units operating out of Russian bases once the Russians are active?



Yup, you bet it


Ya ...that HR lesson was learned from "Taming the Bear" Oh what a thread this creates in terms of understanding Soviet history and speculaton. One thing .. Ahistorical arguements supporting how IJ builds up scenario 2 power, overruns China and India with Germany remaining the main focus, and the US continues to withdrawal out of theater [the game basis everything on a Midway disaster that happened in RL that often does not happen in the game ..] ..well that seems plausible ... in the same light the Western Allies basing aircraft on Soviet territory "That would never happen!"

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 6222
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 5:28:51 PM   
Miller


Posts: 1644
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Waiting for Rader to come back home, here's the status of my CV Fleet:

At my immediate disposal (meaning in combat shape) we have:

CV LexII
CV Intrepid
CV Franklin
CV Hornet
CV HornetII
CVL Bellau Wood

Ready in the next 20 days:
CV Enterprise
CV Indefatigable
CVL Hermes

Ready in 3 months
CV YorkTown
CV Victorious
CV Bunker Hill

Ready in 6/8 months
CVL Indipendence
CVL Bataan
CVL Princeton
CVL Langley
CV Yorktown II
CV Wasp II
CV Indomitable

Plus all the reinforcements coming in...

So for the immediate defence of my LOC we have 5 CVs, 1 CVL and 23 CVE, meaning a force of nearly 500 fighters and 500 attack planes...could be better, i know...but it's always better than nothing


Well thats not too bad, looks like you will have parity with rader in the next 6/8 months. What are your confirmed losses in CVs from the CAP debacle?

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 6223
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 5:29:26 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 3741
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ, Do you have any HR preventing other Allied units operating out of Russian bases once the Russians are active?



Yup, you bet it


But maybe no rule against Soviets operating out of Western Allied bases?

If no such rule exists, you could use the limited Soviet navy to slowly transfer a lot of the Soviet army to Hokkadio where it could be reloaded on the much more plentiful American landing craft to be unloaded in a single day on Honshu and blow through the Japanese defenses.

Under no circumstances hint you might do this nor agree to any rule which would prevent you from doing so.

Alfred

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 6224
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 5:41:34 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6291
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ, Do you have any HR preventing other Allied units operating out of Russian bases once the Russians are active?



Yup, you bet it


But maybe no rule against Soviets operating out of Western Allied bases?

If no such rule exists, you could use the limited Soviet navy to slowly transfer a lot of the Soviet army to Hokkadio where it could be reloaded on the much more plentiful American landing craft to be unloaded in a single day on Honshu and blow through the Japanese defenses.

Under no circumstances hint you might do this nor agree to any rule which would prevent you from doing so.

Alfred


"Russian and other allied units cannot be co-located or occupy each other's bases. "

Well, this is the HR Rader requested. My understanding is that it covers up almost every kind of coordinated fighting effort between the russians and the western allies.
An HR is like a contract. Its interpretation can always be stretched to some degrees. I could, for example, use 99 american/british APA, and 1 Russian cruiser to create an amphib convoy under the USSR Navy flag and land a russian army in Honsu, interpretating it as an extension of the Land Lease act... it's an interpretation that obviously tries to elude or evade the inner meaning of the HR which is clear: Russian and Western allies are two separate forces both enemy of Japan but that operate separated.

Will for sure be a subject to be discussed, but i will not feel particularly strong in arguing the right of my interpretation of the rule

"

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 6225
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 5:42:11 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 14937
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ, Do you have any HR preventing other Allied units operating out of Russian bases once the Russians are active?


Yup, you bet it


But maybe no rule against Soviets operating out of Western Allied bases?

If no such rule exists, you could use the limited Soviet navy to slowly transfer a lot of the Soviet army to Hokkadio where it could be reloaded on the much more plentiful American landing craft to be unloaded in a single day on Honshu and blow through the Japanese defenses.

Under no circumstances hint you might do this nor agree to any rule which would prevent you from doing so.

Alfred


Just in case you missed that part...

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 6226
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 5:48:36 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6291
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Waiting for Rader to come back home, here's the status of my CV Fleet:

At my immediate disposal (meaning in combat shape) we have:

CV LexII
CV Intrepid
CV Franklin
CV Hornet
CV HornetII
CVL Bellau Wood

Ready in the next 20 days:
CV Enterprise
CV Indefatigable
CVL Hermes

Ready in 3 months
CV YorkTown
CV Victorious
CV Bunker Hill

Ready in 6/8 months
CVL Indipendence
CVL Bataan
CVL Princeton
CVL Langley
CV Yorktown II
CV Wasp II
CV Indomitable

Plus all the reinforcements coming in...

So for the immediate defence of my LOC we have 5 CVs, 1 CVL and 23 CVE, meaning a force of nearly 500 fighters and 500 attack planes...could be better, i know...but it's always better than nothing


Well thats not too bad, looks like you will have parity with rader in the next 6/8 months. What are your confirmed losses in CVs from the CAP debacle?


these are the ships already sunk

Wasp II, Indomitable, Yorktown II, Princeton and Langley are still struggling towards Hakkodate...they could sink anytime soon...but if they manage to get there i hope to save them within the next 8 months...well...probably 10...




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 1/29/2012 5:49:20 PM >

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Post #: 6227
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 5:51:13 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6291
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ, Do you have any HR preventing other Allied units operating out of Russian bases once the Russians are active?


Yup, you bet it


But maybe no rule against Soviets operating out of Western Allied bases?

If no such rule exists, you could use the limited Soviet navy to slowly transfer a lot of the Soviet army to Hokkadio where it could be reloaded on the much more plentiful American landing craft to be unloaded in a single day on Honshu and blow through the Japanese defenses.

Under no circumstances hint you might do this nor agree to any rule which would prevent you from doing so.

Alfred


Just in case you missed that part...


Oh, probably i didn't understand Alfred's sentence in the right way (my english is still far from being decent guys). I understood he said: "You mustn't agree to any further HR that will prevent you from doing it"

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 6228
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 6:01:57 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 3741
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ, Do you have any HR preventing other Allied units operating out of Russian bases once the Russians are active?



Yup, you bet it


But maybe no rule against Soviets operating out of Western Allied bases?

If no such rule exists, you could use the limited Soviet navy to slowly transfer a lot of the Soviet army to Hokkadio where it could be reloaded on the much more plentiful American landing craft to be unloaded in a single day on Honshu and blow through the Japanese defenses.

Under no circumstances hint you might do this nor agree to any rule which would prevent you from doing so.

Alfred


"Russian and other allied units cannot be co-located or occupy each other's bases. "

Well, this is the HR Rader requested. My understanding is that it covers up almost every kind of coordinated fighting effort between the russians and the western allies.
An HR is like a contract. Its interpretation can always be stretched to some degrees. I could, for example, use 99 american/british APA, and 1 Russian cruiser to create an amphib convoy under the USSR Navy flag and land a russian army in Honsu, interpretating it as an extension of the Land Lease act... it's an interpretation that obviously tries to elude or evade the inner meaning of the HR which is clear: Russian and Western allies are two separate forces both enemy of Japan but that operate separated.

Will for sure be a subject to be discussed, but i will not feel particularly strong in arguing the right of my interpretation of the rule

"


GreyJoy,

I have largely refrained from commenting on your opponent's approach and I won't fully unleash now, but he has always treated you, and the rest of the forum as fools. Nothing he puts forward to justify his actions has any validity, he misuses historical data, he misrepresents how the game operates, he misrepresents how he suffers from game mechanics. He might be a lovely individual in real life but he is not the saint you depict him as a player.

There is a very easy "legal" loophole around that "contract". Part of it you have already identified as sailing under a Soviet flag. The other leg is that you transport the Soviet army to a base on Hokkaido and the first day you land the first Soviet troops you change the base to Soviet command and move out all non-soviet forces.

GreyJoy, there is an old Spanish saying which is very applicable to you. He who makes himself of sugar, gets eaten by flies.

Alfred


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 6229
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 6:15:04 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6291
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ, Do you have any HR preventing other Allied units operating out of Russian bases once the Russians are active?



Yup, you bet it


But maybe no rule against Soviets operating out of Western Allied bases?

If no such rule exists, you could use the limited Soviet navy to slowly transfer a lot of the Soviet army to Hokkadio where it could be reloaded on the much more plentiful American landing craft to be unloaded in a single day on Honshu and blow through the Japanese defenses.

Under no circumstances hint you might do this nor agree to any rule which would prevent you from doing so.

Alfred


"Russian and other allied units cannot be co-located or occupy each other's bases. "

Well, this is the HR Rader requested. My understanding is that it covers up almost every kind of coordinated fighting effort between the russians and the western allies.
An HR is like a contract. Its interpretation can always be stretched to some degrees. I could, for example, use 99 american/british APA, and 1 Russian cruiser to create an amphib convoy under the USSR Navy flag and land a russian army in Honsu, interpretating it as an extension of the Land Lease act... it's an interpretation that obviously tries to elude or evade the inner meaning of the HR which is clear: Russian and Western allies are two separate forces both enemy of Japan but that operate separated.

Will for sure be a subject to be discussed, but i will not feel particularly strong in arguing the right of my interpretation of the rule

"


GreyJoy, there is an old Spanish saying which is very applicable to you. He who makes himself of sugar, gets eaten by flies.
Alfred




Very true Alfred about that old spanish saying! But i think i did defend my rights, even fighting for them, when i felt i was at 100% on the side of reason.
Under this particular matter, i have to admit that we talked a lot about the whole "russian thing" before we begun our match and i agreed with no hesitation on that particular HR (also because i did feel it wasn't historically uncorrect). I would probably express a "bad faith" if now, after one year, when this rule may become a "vulnus" for my future operations, i wanted to re-discuss it and change the "contract".
Rader has always been open to re-discuss the HRs every time i spotted a possible problem or underlined a rule that was becoming unbalancing with the going on of the game (see, for example, our latest re-opening of the whole night bombing feature).
I will talk to him openly about that, but having fixed in my mind another old saying (latin this time): Pacta Serbanda Sunt (agreements must be respected)

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 6230
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 6:25:28 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 3741
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
To which I can quote the epitome of the Roman state, Pompey the Great:

"Don't quote me laws, I come armed with swords"

Alfred

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 6231
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 6:29:56 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6291
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

To which I can quote the epitome of the Roman state, Pompey the Great:

"Don't quote me laws, I come armed with swords"

Alfred


That one was a good one.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 6232
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 6:33:48 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 14937
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

GJ, Do you have any HR preventing other Allied units operating out of Russian bases once the Russians are active?


Yup, you bet it


But maybe no rule against Soviets operating out of Western Allied bases?

If no such rule exists, you could use the limited Soviet navy to slowly transfer a lot of the Soviet army to Hokkadio where it could be reloaded on the much more plentiful American landing craft to be unloaded in a single day on Honshu and blow through the Japanese defenses.

Under no circumstances hint you might do this nor agree to any rule which would prevent you from doing so.

Alfred


Just in case you missed that part...


Oh, probably i didn't understand Alfred's sentence in the right way (my english is still far from being decent guys). I understood he said: "You mustn't agree to any further HR that will prevent you from doing it"


Our posts crossed. BTW Alfred's subsequent posts are right. You have been taken advantage of. Go get 'em.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 6233
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 6:41:09 PM   
House Stark

 

Posts: 184
Joined: 4/30/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

I was off for work, came back, peeked into the thread and read something about Kamikaze carriers......made my day.

Good yer stepped back from that one or I would have posted this



Who ever said i am Theon? Couldn't i be Victarion greyjoy?

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/a/a3/Victarion_Greyjoy.jpg

You're too clever to be Victarion. And considering that your bold plans meet with success you're clearly not Theon. So that leaves you as Asha, or quite probably Euron.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 6234
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 6:42:00 PM   
Wuffer

 

Posts: 257
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

To which I can quote the epitome of the Roman state, Pompey the Great:

"Don't quote me laws, I come armed with swords"

Alfred


veni vidi risi

we know how this episode ends, perhaps not the best omen
:-)

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 6235
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 6:45:19 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 3741
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

To which I can quote the epitome of the Roman state, Pompey the Great:

"Don't quote me laws, I come armed with swords"

Alfred


veni vidi risi

we know how this episode ends, perhaps not the best omen
:-)


Only because he arrived without swords.

Alfred

(in reply to Wuffer)
Post #: 6236
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 6:51:34 PM   
Wuffer

 

Posts: 257
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
still, it was the first step of a headless confusion :-)

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 6237
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 6:53:33 PM   
Wuffer

 

Posts: 257
Joined: 6/16/2011
Status: offline
but you are right, let the bears out

(in reply to Wuffer)
Post #: 6238
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 7:05:30 PM   
Gräfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1143
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: House Stark


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

I was off for work, came back, peeked into the thread and read something about Kamikaze carriers......made my day.

Good yer stepped back from that one or I would have posted this



Who ever said i am Theon? Couldn't i be Victarion greyjoy?

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/a/a3/Victarion_Greyjoy.jpg

You're too clever to be Victarion. And considering that your bold plans meet with success you're clearly not Theon. So that leaves you as Asha, or quite probably Euron.

Look, the wolf is barking.

_____________________________



(in reply to House Stark)
Post #: 6239
RE: Angels over Sadogashima - 1/29/2012 10:22:14 PM   
Roger Neilson II


Posts: 1515
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Newcastle upon Tyne. England
Status: offline
Its an interesting idea from Alfred. In historical realism this would be an absolute no-no. In 1945 in Europe there was very serious concern that the Soviets would just blitz us as well, such was the level of apprehension about Stalin's motives.

On the other hand I have to question at which point this scenario departed from historical anyway........ it is debatable that the 7th December was the starting point........

Ho hum.

Roger

_____________________________


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 6240
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