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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY

 
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RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 4:46:13 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9768
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Yup, rader had established a strong MLR.  He was in the comfortable position of knowing that GJ had to come to him.  Thus, rader could choose where and when to commit his naval assets.  That's all changed.  He's  lost control and now has to come to GJ.  A massive naval and air battle will be fought.  It will be fun to watch.  And GJ is in the driver's seat.

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 3871
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 4:47:34 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 5724
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Yup, rader had established a strong MLR.  He was in the comfortable position of knowing that GJ had to come to him.  Thus, rader could choose where and when to commit his naval assets.  That's all changed.  He's  lost control and now has to come to GJ.  A massive naval and air battle will be fought.  It will be fun to watch.  And GJ is in the driver's seat.


And that is supposed to be something good for me?!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3872
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 4:48:04 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1595
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline
Dad's given you the keys, just don't crash the car......

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 3873
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 4:53:37 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 5724
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Dad's given you the keys, just don't crash the car......


I'll do my best...also because i have already trashed Daddy's Porche Panamera twice (China and India) and i don't think his heart could stand another incident to his beloved teutonic supercar

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 3874
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 4:55:10 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9768
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Hey, didn't I just post something in that "Happy Thanksgiving, Gents" thread last week about GJ "wearing a colorful Tyrolian tunic and plaid leiderhosen, driving the wrong way down a one way street..."? 

I must be omniscient!

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 3875
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 4:55:22 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8026
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If any naysayers out there feel that way, I would love to hear them speak up now.  Come on, put your cards on the table where we can see them!

Nah! There can't be any such sentiment out there.  No matter what happens at this point, GJ has achieved victory by achieving total strategic suprirse that let him accomplish what had to be accomplished for him to ultimately prevail.


Naysayer? No, but GJ has some difficult days ahead. He has long SLOCs to supply a lot of bases, and good raiding bases along the flank in Truk, the Marianas, and the Iwo Jima group.

That said, I also think there's about a 40/60 chance rader asks for a divorce in the next two game months.

An interesting issue is that these two players are not playing for VPs, so what is "victory"? If they were playing for VPs I'd recco going for vehicle and armament points in order to hamstring land ops everywhere and make Japanese reenforcements flaccid. That would open the best chance for VP accumulation in many sub-theaters over two years, rather than just an air-war exchange struggle over the HI. But if there's no VPs on the table, then what? Does rader have to lose Tokyo? Even then, if auto-vic is not an option, are we back to the "do better than history" model? If we are, GJ just won.

I'm confused.

I think that if rader chooses to play on I'd like to see an AARed game with a Honshu invasion. I'm not sure it can be done if there are ahistorical levels of kamis. I'm back to wondering what were the status of rader's pools when he decided he didn't need India any longer.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3876
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 5:41:44 PM   
USS America


Posts: 15863
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Apex, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Dad's given you the keys, just don't crash the car......


I'll do my best...also because i have already trashed Daddy's Porche Panamera twice (China and India) and i don't think his heart could stand another incident to his beloved teutonic supercar


Oh, no! Don't hurt the Panamera!

My wife really wants one.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 3877
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 5:53:43 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 2587
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


....
Oh, no! Don't hurt the Panamera!

My wife really wants one.


In your best Monty Python French accent you are supposed to say "Ahhh... we already have a blue one .."

(in reply to USS America)
Post #: 3878
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 5:54:32 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 5724
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

If any naysayers out there feel that way, I would love to hear them speak up now.  Come on, put your cards on the table where we can see them!

Nah! There can't be any such sentiment out there.  No matter what happens at this point, GJ has achieved victory by achieving total strategic suprirse that let him accomplish what had to be accomplished for him to ultimately prevail.


Naysayer? No, but GJ has some difficult days ahead. He has long SLOCs to supply a lot of bases, and good raiding bases along the flank in Truk, the Marianas, and the Iwo Jima group.

That said, I also think there's about a 40/60 chance rader asks for a divorce in the next two game months.

An interesting issue is that these two players are not playing for VPs, so what is "victory"? If they were playing for VPs I'd recco going for vehicle and armament points in order to hamstring land ops everywhere and make Japanese reenforcements flaccid. That would open the best chance for VP accumulation in many sub-theaters over two years, rather than just an air-war exchange struggle over the HI. But if there's no VPs on the table, then what? Does rader have to lose Tokyo? Even then, if auto-vic is not an option, are we back to the "do better than history" model? If we are, GJ just won.

I'm confused.

I think that if rader chooses to play on I'd like to see an AARed game with a Honshu invasion. I'm not sure it can be done if there are ahistorical levels of kamis. I'm back to wondering what were the status of rader's pools when he decided he didn't need India any longer.


I think the game should end when it becomes clear that Japan has lost the war and has no chance of fighting back...or, in other words, when the game becomes not interesting anymore for both the players

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 3879
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 6:11:40 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 8026
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I think the game should end when it becomes clear that Japan has lost the war and has no chance of fighting back...or, in other words, when the game becomes not interesting anymore for both the players


I don't think these two ideas are equivalent. In many respects the first is true now. You have thousands of Allied soldiers standing on HI territory in 1944, which never happened in the real war at any time. In other respects your second statement assumes it takes two to decide to end it.

I'm not saying rader will choose to quit today. But I suspect his experience in his other game will color his patience with a long, drawn out strat bombing phase.

OTOH, if he goes on we begin to see the ramifications of taking auto-vic and VPs off the table. If he has large HI reserves he could concievably fight on after losing Tokyo. Realistic? You be the judge.

Bullwinkle likes black & white end-games. If it comes down to deciding whether a HI invasion trumps taking China and India in the "compared to real world sweepstakes" it'll be disappointing.

OTOH, if rader quits unilaterally, you win. Bottom line.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 3880
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 6:12:55 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 1917
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

So if he wants a Naval battle...a CV-CV Clash...well, he will have to come and look for me inside my defensive perimeter (Shukuka-Bihoro-Shikotan-Kunashiri-Etorofu-Uruppu and Shimushiri)... i won't go looking for troubles...not now.

Don't know guys...Rader seems too calm to be really considering this a "winning move"...It always seems that he has perfect controll of everything...So i'm not that overconfident.


Much as I would like a big naval battle and think one will take place if i were Rader I would play this differently. Besides lashing out someplace (Australia?) I would make GJ pay for every pound of supplies and ounce of oil he sends to the HI (yes, you are now in the HI's)d tha. GJ has a huge Army, Airforce and Navy a long way from home. Most of the supplies have to go by sea by a very predictable route. Rader has a lot of good air naval bases across that route. I would raid every convoy that goes through. That will cause the US CV's to escort those convoys. CVE's won't do it. That big carrier battle might take place, but it will be strictly carrier on carrier action in the open Ocean. The allies still have the advantage, but that is the best chance for a KB win. The IJN can choose to give battle, or not, in the open ocean.and the carrier forces are still close in number, if not a pilot quality.


_____________________________

The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it’s still on the list.

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 3881
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 6:19:29 PM   
SoliInvictus202


Posts: 367
Joined: 8/27/2010
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

So if he wants a Naval battle...a CV-CV Clash...well, he will have to come and look for me inside my defensive perimeter (Shukuka-Bihoro-Shikotan-Kunashiri-Etorofu-Uruppu and Shimushiri)... i won't go looking for troubles...not now.

Don't know guys...Rader seems too calm to be really considering this a "winning move"...It always seems that he has perfect controll of everything...So i'm not that overconfident.


Much as I would like a big naval battle and think one will take place if i were Rader I would play this differently. Besides lashing out someplace (Australia?) I would make GJ pay for every pound of supplies and ounce of oil he sends to the HI (yes, you are now in the HI's)d tha. GJ has a huge Army, Airforce and Navy a long way from home. Most of the supplies have to go by sea by a very predictable route. Rader has a lot of good air naval bases across that route. I would raid every convoy that goes through. That will cause the US CV's to escort those convoys. CVE's won't do it. That big carrier battle might take place, but it will be strictly carrier on carrier action in the open Ocean. The allies still have the advantage, but that is the best chance for a KB win. The IJN can choose to give battle, or not, in the open ocean.and the carrier forces are still close in number, if not a pilot quality.



I am unsure - does GJ control the Aleutians in total? - if so.... why should his convoys run over the ocean? - he can move them safely along the coastline - from Kodiak - Adak - Attu - Kuriles....

CV-escort is still needed - yes - but LBA-cover can be provided almost everywhere....


if he does NOT control them however - then it is an entirely different matter - but it seems that GJ already brought along a substantial number of supplies to keep ops running during these first few important weeks...

with the huge amount of 12kt AKs the US get he should be able to ensure fast unload of large convoys if they get through.... if 2 out 3 30 ship-convoys get sunk - the 1 should keep 2-3 bases running for quite a while....

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 3882
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 6:21:34 PM   
Olorin


Posts: 612
Joined: 4/22/2008
From: Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

So if he wants a Naval battle...a CV-CV Clash...well, he will have to come and look for me inside my defensive perimeter (Shukuka-Bihoro-Shikotan-Kunashiri-Etorofu-Uruppu and Shimushiri)... i won't go looking for troubles...not now.

Don't know guys...Rader seems too calm to be really considering this a "winning move"...It always seems that he has perfect controll of everything...So i'm not that overconfident.


Much as I would like a big naval battle and think one will take place if i were Rader I would play this differently. Besides lashing out someplace (Australia?) I would make GJ pay for every pound of supplies and ounce of oil he sends to the HI (yes, you are now in the HI's)d tha. GJ has a huge Army, Airforce and Navy a long way from home. Most of the supplies have to go by sea by a very predictable route. Rader has a lot of good air naval bases across that route. I would raid every convoy that goes through. That will cause the US CV's to escort those convoys. CVE's won't do it. That big carrier battle might take place, but it will be strictly carrier on carrier action in the open Ocean. The allies still have the advantage, but that is the best chance for a KB win. The IJN can choose to give battle, or not, in the open ocean.and the carrier forces are still close in number, if not a pilot quality.




I agree with above post. I too see a carrier battle in the open ocean, well East of the Kurilles.
If KB parks there, the allied CV must meet them. It depends on when the 2 million tons of supplies which GJ brought with the first wave are spent.



< Message edited by Olorin -- 11/30/2011 6:39:39 PM >


_____________________________

"Drang nach Osten"
--A TOAWIII AAR--

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 3883
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 6:31:47 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9768
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
GJ will welcome a carrier battle in the open ocean, I'm sure.  He'll have great superiority.  Damaged IJN carriers will then have a long way to go to make it safely home. 

It's true that rader can pick the time and place of battle, but he can't pick whether or not to fight.  He has to.  He didn't have to until this happened.  So now GJ is calling the shots, even though rader of course retains some discretion over what he does when and where.

(in reply to Olorin)
Post #: 3884
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 6:38:07 PM   
JohnDillworth


Posts: 1917
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:



I agree with above post. I too see a carrier battle in the open ocean, well East of the Kurilles.
If KB parks there, the allied CV must meet them. It depends on when the 2 million tons of supplies which GJ brought with the first wave are spent.

Yup, thats a couple of months down the road, but GJ will need supplies. Frankly, I don't think the KB pilots are in good shape right now. It will take a couple of months for the supplies to run low and the KB to get in fighting trim.. When the KB is ready, I'd base it in the Mariana's and scout the crap out of the approaches. IF it's a big convoy have a go. If the fleet is there in force fine, if not, lots of AK and TKs go down. Have to guard against the small convoys too. Best way to counter that might be to send a xAK every day, from every west coast port. Don't use convoys except for fuel or troops. Sure you will lose some, but you have more than plenty and they will unload quickly if they come in small groups

_____________________________

The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it’s still on the list.

(in reply to Olorin)
Post #: 3885
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 6:40:14 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 6836
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I've already expressed at length my feelings about GJ's performance here - stunning and magnificent.

Surely, there are a few folks out there that think all the glowing congratulations are premature, that rader is going to thrash GJ?  I can just imagine a few folks popping up after rader sinks the entire Allied fleet, downs all aircraft, and boots out the whole Allied army, to say:  "Well, I knew this was going to happen.  All you people congratulating GJ were very premature.  I knew all along this was an exercise in futility."

If any naysayers out there feel that way, I would love to hear them speak up now.  Come on, put your cards on the table where we can see them!

Nah! There can't be any such sentiment out there.  No matter what happens at this point, GJ has achieved victory by achieving total strategic suprirse that let him accomplish what had to be accomplished for him to ultimately prevail.



Well Canoe, you have touched on a very sensitive point. To be honest, I am quite upset with Greyjoy and think this is the appropriate time to bring up this issue. At this point in time we can be certain that every Jafanboy who is active on this forum is busy hastily shifting men and material to the Northern provinces. They are certainly without hesitation increasing the number and frequency of air patrols on all the approaches to the Kuriles and I have no doubt there is at this time a massive posting of picket ships and submarines far out into the reaches of the North Pacific. In successfully pulling off this sneaky and dare I say "gamey" massive invasion of the homeland in complete disregard for the accepted rules of war and reasonable practices of the gaming community, a certain Mr. Greyjoy has ruined the chances of thousands (yes thousands) of devoted and long suffering Allied fanboys who have spent years fighting off the Yellow Peril and dreaming of such a blow. It is my claim that every true Allied player harbors desires to strike a home run deep into the guts of Japan. By his obviously ill advised and premature invasion of the "gateway" of Japan without consulting the many wise Allied pundits on this board, he is not only risking his and every Allied FBs well earned reputation but also alerting the enemy to the remote possiblity that this sort of reckless and implausible invasion is even possible. ( As a result I have had to cancel my carfully planned 45 division direct assault on Tokyo Bay, to take place in the next week! )

Personally, I can't be shown up by this "NOOB" whippersnapper. While carelessly ignoring all of my sage advice and caution, he has repudtiated all of my vast and "expert" knowledge of this game. Should we die hard Allied players stand for this? I call for this "young upstart" to be hauled in chains in front of the Kangeroo Court whey he will have to defend his irregular ways before a tribunal of his betters.

My personal opinion is that this "Greyjoy" character is not what he represents. ("The Power of Inexperience" indeed!) but a returned Mogami who has led us all to believe that he was a new player but actually the old master himself in disguise. Returned to give us all a lesson in humility and to have a cruel joke on all of Allied players.

I must go now and come up with a new and better idea for defeating Japan. Better than anything Greyjoy (Mogami) could ever come up with. Perhaps something unorthadox such as a gradual two pronged advace in the Central Pacific and via the Solomos and NG to liberate the PI while grinding the Japanese army, fleet and airforce to dust.

I have been shamed.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3886
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 6:41:43 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 9768
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
Are you guys saying that an IJ fleet in the Marianas can interdict the Allied LOC to the newly acquired bases in NoPac?  I don't understand.  GJ is almost certain to set up a route from Seattle that will weave through the Aluetians and then down to his new bases.  Most of the route will be protected by LBA and patrols.  Interdicting that from the Marianas or anywhere else will be very tough.  GJ is going to have a very good LOC.  He'll have to watch out and protect big convoys, but that shouldn't be a big problem.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/30/2011 6:43:49 PM >

(in reply to JohnDillworth)
Post #: 3887
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 6:45:23 PM   
Ossian


Posts: 100
Joined: 7/7/2005
Status: offline
I don't know where this contest is going, or who will be the eventual victor. I don't know how many little virtual pilots, sailors and infantry will lose their lives on both side until either Greyjoy or Rader stand alone at the pinnacle of what has been a most outstanding match and I wouldn't presume to comment on the audacity of the current invasion when so many fine players, with so much more knowledge of playing this game than I, have already said it better than I could.

I do know, however, that 'Suddenly Hairy' is quite possibly the finest name for a military operation in the entire history of warfare, virtual and real. For that, my boy, I salute you.

Bravo!

_____________________________

Pure honking, big man.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 3888
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 6:57:04 PM   
cantona2


Posts: 3455
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well Canoe, you have touched on a very sensitive point. To be honest, I am quite upset with Greyjoy and think this is the appropriate time to bring up this issue. At this point in time we can be certain that every Jafanboy who is active on this forum is busy hastily shifting men and material to the Northern provinces. They are certainly without hesitation increasing the number and frequency of air patrols on all the approaches to the Kuriles and I have no doubt there is at this time a massive posting of picket ships and submarines far out into the reaches of the North Pacific. In successfully pulling off this sneaky and dare I say "gamey" massive invasion of the homeland in complete disregard for the accepted rules of war and reasonable practices of the gaming community, a certain Mr. Greyjoy has ruined the chances of thousands (yes thousands) of devoted and long suffering Allied fanboys who have spent years fighting off the Yellow Peril and dreaming of such a blow. It is my claim that every true Allied player harbors desires to strike a home run deep into the guts of Japan. By his obviously ill advised and premature invasion of the "gateway" of Japan without consulting the many wise Allied pundits on this board, he is not only risking his and every Allied FBs well earned reputation but also alerting the enemy to the remote possiblity that this sort of reckless and implausible invasion is even possible. ( As a result I have had to cancel my carfully planned 45 division direct assault on Tokyo Bay, to take place in the next week! )

Personally, I can't be shown up by this "NOOB" whippersnapper. While carelessly ignoring all of my sage advice and caution, he has repudtiated all of my vast and "expert" knowledge of this game. Should we die hard Allied players stand for this? I call for this "young upstart" to be hauled in chains in front of the Kangeroo Court whey he will have to defend his irregular ways before a tribunal of his betters.

My personal opinion is that this "Greyjoy" character is not what he represents. ("The Power of Inexperience" indeed!) but a returned Mogami who has led us all to believe that he was a new player but actually the old master himself in disguise. Returned to give us all a lesson in humility and to have a cruel joke on all of Allied players.

I must go now and come up with a new and better idea for defeating Japan. Better than anything Greyjoy (Mogami) could ever come up with. Perhaps something unorthadox such as a gradual two pronged advace in the Central Pacific and via the Solomos and NG to liberate the PI while grinding the Japanese army, fleet and airforce to dust.

I have been shamed.



I am hoping that this is tongue in cheek as kudos to GJ. Or there speaks a true JFB that sees it fine that the IJA rampages over all of India and produces the amounts of aircraft Rader has produced, or even lost!

I am hoping it was a bit of fun

_____________________________

1966 was a great year for English Football...Eric was born



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(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 3889
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 6:58:01 PM   
USS America


Posts: 15863
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Apex, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


....
Oh, no! Don't hurt the Panamera!

My wife really wants one.


In your best Monty Python French accent you are supposed to say "Ahhh... we already have a blue one .."



She does want it in blue, but our current cars are a silver Cayenne and a Guards Red Boxster S.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 3890
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 7:01:09 PM   
Olorin


Posts: 612
Joined: 4/22/2008
From: Greece
Status: offline
To be honest, as a new player one of the first thoughts I had when I looked at the map was: "The Japanese were right to be so fearful about the Northern Route". That's why I always keep 4-5 Jake-equipped subs in the region. If Rader did the same, he wouldn't be as surprised as he was. I don't want to sound as if I am claiming to be better than him, I am just stating that if the allied armada was spotted a week before it reached its targets, tactical and operational surprise would be non-existent.

I think that subs with Jakes are a strategic asset for Japan if used correctly, in my humble opinion.



_____________________________

"Drang nach Osten"
--A TOAWIII AAR--

(in reply to Ossian)
Post #: 3891
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 7:05:48 PM   
USS America


Posts: 15863
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Apex, NC, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well Canoe, you have touched on a very sensitive point. To be honest, I am quite upset with Greyjoy and think this is the appropriate time to bring up this issue. At this point in time we can be certain that every Jafanboy who is active on this forum is busy hastily shifting men and material to the Northern provinces. They are certainly without hesitation increasing the number and frequency of air patrols on all the approaches to the Kuriles and I have no doubt there is at this time a massive posting of picket ships and submarines far out into the reaches of the North Pacific. In successfully pulling off this sneaky and dare I say "gamey" massive invasion of the homeland in complete disregard for the accepted rules of war and reasonable practices of the gaming community, a certain Mr. Greyjoy has ruined the chances of thousands (yes thousands) of devoted and long suffering Allied fanboys who have spent years fighting off the Yellow Peril and dreaming of such a blow. It is my claim that every true Allied player harbors desires to strike a home run deep into the guts of Japan. By his obviously ill advised and premature invasion of the "gateway" of Japan without consulting the many wise Allied pundits on this board, he is not only risking his and every Allied FBs well earned reputation but also alerting the enemy to the remote possiblity that this sort of reckless and implausible invasion is even possible. ( As a result I have had to cancel my carfully planned 45 division direct assault on Tokyo Bay, to take place in the next week! )

Personally, I can't be shown up by this "NOOB" whippersnapper. While carelessly ignoring all of my sage advice and caution, he has repudtiated all of my vast and "expert" knowledge of this game. Should we die hard Allied players stand for this? I call for this "young upstart" to be hauled in chains in front of the Kangeroo Court whey he will have to defend his irregular ways before a tribunal of his betters.

My personal opinion is that this "Greyjoy" character is not what he represents. ("The Power of Inexperience" indeed!) but a returned Mogami who has led us all to believe that he was a new player but actually the old master himself in disguise. Returned to give us all a lesson in humility and to have a cruel joke on all of Allied players.

I must go now and come up with a new and better idea for defeating Japan. Better than anything Greyjoy (Mogami) could ever come up with. Perhaps something unorthadox such as a gradual two pronged advace in the Central Pacific and via the Solomos and NG to liberate the PI while grinding the Japanese army, fleet and airforce to dust.

I have been shamed.



I am hoping that this is tongue in cheek as kudos to GJ. Or there speaks a true JFB that sees it fine that the IJA rampages over all of India and produces the amounts of aircraft Rader has produced, or even lost!

I am hoping it was a bit of fun


Every word.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to cantona2)
Post #: 3892
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 7:08:35 PM   
cantona2


Posts: 3455
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona2


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well Canoe, you have touched on a very sensitive point. To be honest, I am quite upset with Greyjoy and think this is the appropriate time to bring up this issue. At this point in time we can be certain that every Jafanboy who is active on this forum is busy hastily shifting men and material to the Northern provinces. They are certainly without hesitation increasing the number and frequency of air patrols on all the approaches to the Kuriles and I have no doubt there is at this time a massive posting of picket ships and submarines far out into the reaches of the North Pacific. In successfully pulling off this sneaky and dare I say "gamey" massive invasion of the homeland in complete disregard for the accepted rules of war and reasonable practices of the gaming community, a certain Mr. Greyjoy has ruined the chances of thousands (yes thousands) of devoted and long suffering Allied fanboys who have spent years fighting off the Yellow Peril and dreaming of such a blow. It is my claim that every true Allied player harbors desires to strike a home run deep into the guts of Japan. By his obviously ill advised and premature invasion of the "gateway" of Japan without consulting the many wise Allied pundits on this board, he is not only risking his and every Allied FBs well earned reputation but also alerting the enemy to the remote possiblity that this sort of reckless and implausible invasion is even possible. ( As a result I have had to cancel my carfully planned 45 division direct assault on Tokyo Bay, to take place in the next week! )

Personally, I can't be shown up by this "NOOB" whippersnapper. While carelessly ignoring all of my sage advice and caution, he has repudtiated all of my vast and "expert" knowledge of this game. Should we die hard Allied players stand for this? I call for this "young upstart" to be hauled in chains in front of the Kangeroo Court whey he will have to defend his irregular ways before a tribunal of his betters.

My personal opinion is that this "Greyjoy" character is not what he represents. ("The Power of Inexperience" indeed!) but a returned Mogami who has led us all to believe that he was a new player but actually the old master himself in disguise. Returned to give us all a lesson in humility and to have a cruel joke on all of Allied players.

I must go now and come up with a new and better idea for defeating Japan. Better than anything Greyjoy (Mogami) could ever come up with. Perhaps something unorthadox such as a gradual two pronged advace in the Central Pacific and via the Solomos and NG to liberate the PI while grinding the Japanese army, fleet and airforce to dust.

I have been shamed.



I am hoping that this is tongue in cheek as kudos to GJ. Or there speaks a true JFB that sees it fine that the IJA rampages over all of India and produces the amounts of aircraft Rader has produced, or even lost!

I am hoping it was a bit of fun


Every word.



_____________________________

1966 was a great year for English Football...Eric was born



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(in reply to USS America)
Post #: 3893
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 7:22:06 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1595
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline
I suspect, should the historical allies be presented with the massive expansion of the Japanese Empire, as done by Rader, I would suspect that Nimitz / MacArthur might just have pursued a "hail mary" invasion much as GJ has done here - rather than accept the massive losses and time it would take to launch a more conventional offensive.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Ossian)
Post #: 3894
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 7:49:34 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 2587
Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

I suspect, should the historical allies be presented with the massive expansion of the Japanese Empire, as done by Rader, I would suspect that Nimitz / MacArthur might just have pursued a "hail mary" invasion much as GJ has done here - rather than accept the massive losses and time it would take to launch a more conventional offensive.


I might disagree ... this is the scenrario where MacAuthur meets his fate in Manilla and George S. Patton is called to duty not for Operation Corbra, but Operation "Suddenly Hairy!" "The hail (sic) I say with Formosa Nimitz! Let's kick those LYB's in the b*tt at Hokkaido!!"

< Message edited by Crackaces -- 11/30/2011 7:51:14 PM >

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 3895
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 8:43:50 PM   
witpqs

 

Posts: 14114
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: paullus99

I suspect, should the historical allies be presented with the massive expansion of the Japanese Empire, as done by Rader, I would suspect that Nimitz / MacArthur might just have pursued a "hail mary" invasion much as GJ has done here - rather than accept the massive losses and time it would take to launch a more conventional offensive.


I might disagree ... this is the scenrario where MacAuthur meets his fate in Manilla and George S. Patton is called to duty not for Operation Corbra, but Operation "Suddenly Hairy!" "The hail (sic) I say with Formosa Nimitz! Let's kick those LYB's in the b*tt at Hokkaido!!"


A Hairy Mary invasion!

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 3896
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 8:45:25 PM   
SoliInvictus202


Posts: 367
Joined: 8/27/2010
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

A Hairy Mary invasion!



if only the current Pope would read this.....

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 3897
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 9:19:07 PM   
Schlemiel

 

Posts: 154
Joined: 10/20/2011
Status: offline
Excellent moves.  I do agree that this seems to be the best route of attack for you in your game.  That Rader left such a vulnerable gap in his defenses is probably a sign of two things that have been pointed out earlier (especially by Nemo).  Rader is not a great player.  By that, I mean, he is an excellent and experienced Japanese player that adapts fairly well and had a good game plan, but even with basically every advantage possible (India and China, massive acceleration of his aircraft development, intact kb, etc) he seems to have been fighting the last war (against jzanes) instead of the current one (see buildup of timor, massive acceleration of fighters (presumably to counter 4e bombing, fighting harder at the Solomons to delay the push longer).  This is not the sign of a great player, but merely a good one.  The other thing is that Rader tends to overcommit to everything it seems.  While I certainly think he should have had glen equipped subs as pickets along that route (there's a very wide, hard to scout gap in islands that an afb can exploit, especially if midway and the aleutians are not Japanese scouting bases, or subs and pickets deployed), I'm not sure that even an extra week of warning would have been enough.  My guess based on his play is that most of his shipping is commited to the evacuation/repositioning in new guinea and the reinforcements to the DEI from elsewhere.  That Australia buildup was an excellent maskirovka for someone hellbent on fighting at the farthest perimeter as long as possible.  You played him like a fiddle in the hands of a very hairy hillwoman.  I would be completely unsurprised to find he had nothing resembling a strategic reserve within a week of the home islands at the time of this invasion.  I do also think, as I said earlier, that even capturing the DEI might not have been strategically significant at this point in this game, so your move to a strategically important (if not decisive) AND vulnerable location was very wise from my perspective (and obviously from your better informed (and probably with better reasoning) perspective, as you executed it well).  


That said, your losses early on have probably been to your significant advantage as a player.  You learned very quickly how passive play gets punished, and you were forced to consider unconventional thinking to counter his swarming defensive across a very, very thick perimeter.  Keep this up.  Your losses forced you to learn deeply and quickly or lose totally, while his successes seem to have given him victory disease.


Keep in mind Nemo's invasion of Okinawa in his aar and the vast Chinese and Indian divisions now freed for use in the home islands.  I wouldn't consider it an overreaction at all to send every last available division to reinforce your holdings here (as you really do not need to push your perimeter any closer unless you actually invade Japan).  An unconventional counterinvasion could make your life more difficult, so making each base untakable to any size landing in the short term (with adequate strategic reserves to guarantee a stalemate in the mid term).  Obviously you'll suppress the eastern kuriles, but I do not think it would be a mistake to conquer them in the timeframe 6 months out to further your hold.  Committing all your forces to a single axis is fairly easy to counter, but if you're already deep into his strategic depth (which can't really be moved out of the home islands in this case), you can guarantee the war.  Stalemate isn't good enough for him here, as you're too close to his vitals.  If you still have any doubts about his plans (and I personally doubt he has the psychology to really try), if you put everything this axis at this point, he can't kick you out even with everything he has committed to a brilliant plan, imo.  That's almost certainly being far too conservative, but given how the game started and what a big gamble you took to get this position, conservative play to secure it (at least for now) seems to be worthwhile (and your plan, as you indicate).  But hey, sometimes it's comforting to hear other people suggest to us the things we are already thinking.

All in all, gj gj.

(in reply to SoliInvictus202)
Post #: 3898
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 9:25:58 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3415
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline
crsutton's tongue in cheek post reminds me of a British officer captured by the Afrika Corps who was shown the 88mm gun that knocked out his tank:

"You can't shoot a tank with an anti-aircraft gun! It isn't Cricket!"



_____________________________

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(in reply to SoliInvictus202)
Post #: 3899
RE: SUDDENLY HAIRY - 11/30/2011 10:37:51 PM   
dekwik


Posts: 83
Joined: 9/22/2007
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
much as I applaud GJ for an excellent AAR and a tremendous and audacious move, he is about the only person in the forum who seems to have anything good to say about Rader.

Now Rader may not be prolific on the AAR front, but he is a good half of the equation in this great conflict, and I think the fat lady isn't close to singing yet. Ultimately of course, Japan goes down in flames, but every JFB knows that. It's just when and how.

Of course there's plenty of fodder for "coulda woulda shoulda." But if GJ had been an experienced player (instead of a fast learning newb) Rader's swift China supression and India invasion and HI harvesting, combined with opposition to allied production in the only area he can compete (airframes) would have been applauded as a strategic master piece. Up there on a pedestal with PZB's AAR (admittedly in vanilla AE and not 2)

I can't understand the criticism that Rader is only a tactical player. The opposite seems true. His strategy seems to be well thought out and consistently executed. If anything I would say his tactics (over commitment of units in certain theaters, under commited in others, staying too long and strong in India, over aggression in some circumstances) are sometimes a bit short.

In any case hats ofF to GJ. But let's not sell Rader short.

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 3900
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