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Herman, please don't crash the server

 
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Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/19/2011 7:19:21 AM   
TonyE


Posts: 1544
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
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Gee Herman, perhaps you could resist the temptation and not crash the MP server I put up? That'd be greatly appreciated going forward and your actions in the last few hours were not appreciated.

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner
Post #: 1
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/19/2011 8:12:49 AM   
TonyE


Posts: 1544
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline
This people, is a main reason why running a server outside of Herman's realm is an extra large pain...






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to TonyE)
Post #: 2
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/19/2011 12:26:32 PM   
Ron Belcher


Posts: 250
Joined: 5/21/2005
From: Clovis, CA USA
Status: offline
Hmmmm...

I would like to know Herman's point of view, as well. Why hasn't Herman posted anything in awhile?!

Herman.. come in please and give us your point of view! Where are you??? ???
Post #: 3
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/19/2011 7:34:53 PM   
Little Beavers


Posts: 27
Joined: 9/24/2010
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It would appear than a ban feature is needed for the MP version.  
Post #: 4
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/19/2011 9:12:47 PM   
TonyE


Posts: 1544
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From: MN, USA
Status: offline
I do not know exactly what Herman did. I do know that he has great influence over servers running with PDB and he doesn't need to be nosing around a HUD3 server testing his various bugs and crashing the server in the process.

What I do know that his actions crashed the server multiple times. The bad thing is that means he can crash the server at will and interrupt any game in progress.

The scripting I've done to help automatically recover from the crashes will lessen impact but if he will still have the ability to crash at will.

As for Herman's side of the story he'll say that the server shouldn't crash. I agree but "we have to play with the game that we have, not the game that we want" and that requires effort. So far I can't even load a saved game without crashing the server but starting new sessions and running from scenario start is functioning. Since I don't have a good report to make (I've only tried one save) I can't make grand statements about any flaws other than to say the MP server software isn't as stable as I'd like and as it stands will require action on the players' part to optimize the experience (to be detailed in the Server topic as we discover what helps and what hinders).



_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Little Beavers)
Post #: 5
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/19/2011 10:33:00 PM   
Ron Belcher


Posts: 250
Joined: 5/21/2005
From: Clovis, CA USA
Status: offline
Banned !?

What the heck !? I personally consider Herman a true Harpoon devotee/fan. What possibly could
he have done to deserve such ill fate? It's not my concern. Nor is this the place to go into detaill.
Let's just stay focused on HEU and the benefit of such an awesome game!

I'm here to support HEU in any way possible...

With that being said... I have to add...

If this game crashes simply because someone logs in, we've got serious problems!


< Message edited by tactician93612 -- 3/19/2011 10:37:46 PM >

(in reply to TonyE)
Post #: 6
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/19/2011 10:53:37 PM   
TonyE


Posts: 1544
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tactician93612
If this game crashes simply because someone logs in, we've got serious problems!


Good thing it doesn't crash just because someone logs in.


_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Ron Belcher)
Post #: 7
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/20/2011 12:31:02 AM   
Vincenzo_Beretta


Posts: 440
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tactician93612

Banned !?

What the heck !? I personally consider Herman a true Harpoon devotee/fan.


He is. Actually, he is the best bug finder around (just check my sig. for the list and some workarounds). I guess he just stumbled upon another one.

quote:


If this game crashes simply because someone logs in, we've got serious problems!


True, but blame Herman is easier than looking for the actual problem. It is the accepted party line over here

Anyway, this is worth checking for real (not that the rest isn't... ) It is not the first time I hear some disturbing reports re: patch 3.10 and MP. I guess some serious tests are in order.

_____________________________


(in reply to Ron Belcher)
Post #: 8
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/20/2011 12:49:01 AM   
FreekS


Posts: 323
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline
Hi all,

I'm not sure if i crashed the server, but here is what i did

Found the ip adress on Matrix games in Tonys post o 3/19/2011
Entered with Harpoon3Client_3101.exe
Typed in some chat lines to see if comms worked, OK
Tried to start a session
Message: Waiting for Session Creation
Did not get past this message, so I hit quit
Nothing happened in harpoon, but on my desktop there was a message
Harpoon3 Advanced Naval warfare: Unhandled exception.

So if i crashed the server i apologise, i was trying to go through the motions of starting a standard game. If as a PDB designer i am not authorised to access this server, then i apologise also, just wanted to verify if the server works with 310.

Freek

Freek

quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyE

Gee Herman, perhaps you could resist the temptation and not crash the MP server I put up? That'd be greatly appreciated going forward and your actions in the last few hours were not appreciated.



_____________________________


(in reply to TonyE)
Post #: 9
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/20/2011 1:00:26 AM   
TonyE


Posts: 1544
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline
Works for me, and at that over a bluetooth connection through my phone!

Read my posts gents, I didn't say it was hard to crash the server. Herman's activities on the server were clearly with the intent to see if the server crashed based on specific steps he laid out and he can do that on his own servers so he should test on those, not on mine. In other words he fully intended to crash the server.








Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to FreekS)
Post #: 10
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/20/2011 1:19:53 AM   
Vincenzo_Beretta


Posts: 440
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TonyE
Herman's activities on the server were clearly with the intent to see if the server crashed based on specific steps he laid out


Define "clearly". Because, the way I see it, the problem appears when one A) logs in and B) stars a session. Hardly William Gibson's stuff.

quote:


and he can do that on his own servers so he should test on those, not on mine. In other words he fully intended to crash the server.


Knowing how someone can "crash the server" can be a good first step in fixing the problem, you know Then again, I admit that blaming some "evil magic" is quickier and easier

_____________________________


(in reply to TonyE)
Post #: 11
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/20/2011 1:39:48 AM   
TonyE


Posts: 1544
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline
Herman was in a session testing out various approaches to causing trouble. For me that was clear evidence.

I have not blamed any magic.

If someone actually wanted to benefit the testing they would be working together with the person running the server to capture the situations. You are not, Herman is not, Freek is not.

Nice try though, have fun with the thread, I've said my piece.

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to Vincenzo_Beretta)
Post #: 12
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/20/2011 3:20:48 AM   
CapitanPiluso


Posts: 67
Joined: 1/23/2009
From: Buenos Aires
Status: offline
Well, not sure this is the right place to post, but I´ve tried to connect to Tony´s server and I am disconnected.I suffered some issue that Freeks explained.

Regards

(in reply to TonyE)
Post #: 13
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/20/2011 3:37:17 AM   
TonyE


Posts: 1544
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline
Definitely not the place to post, that'd be on the server topic or at harpgamer. Yes, it did go kerplut <g>.

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to CapitanPiluso)
Post #: 14
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/20/2011 11:33:21 PM   
aotino

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 9/21/2009
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Don't know if it helps, but I just crashed the server in the same way Freek and Herman did.

(in reply to Vincenzo_Beretta)
Post #: 15
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/21/2011 8:39:17 AM   
Vincenzo_Beretta


Posts: 440
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: koelbach
Herman cannot answer here. He is banned from this side, like from two other major Harpoon sites (Harpgamer, Warfaresims), since several months/ a long time.


This is not a difficult feat to pull: you only need a pied piper and a bunch of people dancing to the tune without even listening to it

_____________________________

Post #: 16
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/21/2011 7:15:19 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 33960
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: online
Hi Vincenzo,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vincenzo Beretta
This is not a difficult feat to pull: you only need a pied piper and a bunch of people dancing to the tune without even listening to it

True, but blame Herman is easier than looking for the actual problem. It is the accepted party line over here


Herman was banned for violating the forum rules, which were clearly posted. The above quotes are very close to crossing that line as well. Consider yourself warned. Discussing issues and problems constructively is fine. Sniping at the developers and/or community is not.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Vincenzo_Beretta)
Post #: 17
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/21/2011 10:39:56 PM   
FreekS


Posts: 323
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline
Sorry Eric, i take issue with this. Its clear from the thread that Herman did not deliberately crash the server but tried to start a session on a server open to anyone in the community (Tony announced the server himself). The server crashed in the same way with 4 people doing the same thing. I feel Herman was unfairly insulted/accused in this thread and of course could not reply.

So i feel your official warnings are somewhat one-sided.

Freek



_____________________________


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 18
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/21/2011 10:56:53 PM   
TonyE


Posts: 1544
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline
Freek, try as you might to rewrite history you weren't the one observing the server when Herman was at work and it is quite clear what Herman was doing.  That he was there at all is disappointing, being banned and all.

_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to FreekS)
Post #: 19
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/22/2011 2:03:15 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11531
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline
I'd address the bug and if running on a windows server you can probably block antics like that there instead of relying on the forum. Forum posts are just used to put a show on in other places

Just a suggestion.

(in reply to TonyE)
Post #: 20
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/22/2011 2:12:42 AM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline
I don't know. I've always liked Herman. When he was on the forum and someone had a question, he was always the first one to help. The amount of time he's devoted to helping others is incredible. It's a shame he couldn't keep out of trouble and got banned.

But afaik being banned from the forum doesn't ban you from the server. Even if he was debugging or whatever on the server, how can anyone read his mind and know for sure he was trying to crash the server. Personally I would have given him the benefit of the doubt and communicated with him to find out what he was doing before posting in public.

That's just my opinion fwiw. Please, no flames.

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 21
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/22/2011 2:33:14 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11531
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545

I don't know. I've always liked Herman. When he was on the forum and someone had a question, he was always the first one to help. The amount of time he's devoted to helping others is incredible. It's a shame he couldn't keep out of trouble and got banned.

But afaik being banned from the forum doesn't ban you from the server. Even if he was debugging or whatever on the server, how can anyone read his mind and know for sure he was trying to crash the server. Personally I would have given him the benefit of the doubt and communicated with him to find out what he was doing before posting in public.

That's just my opinion fwiw. Please, no flames.



That's a good question Rich.

If you're hosting a server though you're not just providing service to Herman so you've got to make sure it remains up. The sensible thing to on the tech side is to block the troublesome incoming connection causing the problem and on the people side email the user letting them know why and when they can expect to have service again. So Herman's informed but the guys that are trying to play the game aren't having their games ruined. If Herman is causing the problem he'll likely stop if he want to jump on to play again.

Sound like a better approach?


(in reply to rich12545)
Post #: 22
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/25/2011 12:12:18 AM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The above quotes are very close to crossing that line as well.


So is addressing a public forum post to, and taking a snipe at, somebody whom you know can't respond IMHO. Particularly when the evidence of malice aforethought, at least as presented here, is not exactly convincing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tactician93612

I personally consider Herman a true Harpoon devotee/fan. What possibly could
he have done to deserve such ill fate?



Likewise. I know nothing little about this p*ssing context beyond the fact it exists, has for a long while, and that - face facts, folks - both sides have behaved like spoiled children on occasion, as evidenced by their posts. I DO know, though, that Herman was a hell of a lot more helpful than anybody else to new players who came to and struggled with ANW when first released by Matrix, such as myself.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 23
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/25/2011 3:34:50 PM   
TonyE


Posts: 1544
Joined: 5/23/2006
From: MN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545
It's a shame he couldn't keep out of trouble and got banned.


No doubt, but he couldn't and he did. You can look at my posts here and at HarpGamer even after Herman was banned and see that there is only one more effective and desirable tester I've ever had the joy of working with. Unfortunately Herman couldn't keep out of trouble :( .


_____________________________

Sincerely,
Tony Eischens
Harpoon (HC, HCE, HUCE, Classic) programmer
HarpGamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to rich12545)
Post #: 24
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 3/28/2011 7:20:34 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 33960
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: online
Hi guys,

I kept my mind open on Herman for a long time and even got him "unbanned" a few years ago, but it became clear to me that he had a larger agenda. I'm not going to get into all of that here, where Herman can't respond, but he was banned for violating clear forum rules and we'll leave it at that.

As far as what happened on the Server, I don't think we can know that Herman was trying to crash it, but based on personal experience I'll take Tony's word for the fact that what he was observing was not just normal player behavior. I'm sure Herman still reads these forums, so I'm sure he got Tony's message.

With that said, I completely agree that the server should be stable and resistant to crashing and there's clearly more work to be done there, which I'll discuss with Tony and Don to see what we can do.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
Director of Product Development


For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to TonyE)
Post #: 25
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 7/29/2011 9:25:56 AM   
erichswafford


Posts: 565
Joined: 5/14/2008
Status: offline
I agree with the devs on this one...

< Message edited by kondor999 -- 8/21/2011 4:43:32 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 26
RE: Herman, please don't crash the server - 7/29/2011 6:31:40 PM   
Vincenzo_Beretta


Posts: 440
Joined: 3/13/2001
From: Milan, Italy
Status: offline
"Clearly, if..." "Should someone..." "I heard that... and I think that..." and so on. If there is something I learned from the whole "Herman vs. the World" saga is that, for "the World" the burden of proof is an abstract concept. The very title of this thread has never been changed, even if a lot of people suffer from the same problem even when Herman is not around.

Anyway, of all days, this is in absolute the worst one to bring out this kind of stupidity - which is what saddens me the most.

_____________________________


(in reply to erichswafford)
Post #: 27
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