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RE: JAPAN Aid

 
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RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 12:37:56 AM   
sven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

While my heart goes out to the Japanese and their families, I still fail to see how a wealthy highly developed country like Japan deserves my money. This is JAPAN, NOT Haiti where most of the population is living in poverty and there is no way they could recover on their own.

Seems kind of cold, but come on let's be real.


The Japanese suffered a minimum of 18,000 dead, 300 billion dollars worth of damage, and are a FAR more important nation to the US than haiti. It was important to help haiti to engage in an act of kindness for a disadvantaged neighbor, it is VITAL for us to help japan because she is a friend and a close trading partner. Unless the japanese have massive vaults like Cheyenne Mtn all over their nation I am pretty sure they need a hand up.

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Post #: 31
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 12:44:46 AM   
Anthropoid


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I harbor some pretty cold hearted ideas about how sheer population size combined with ever-increasing standards of living are the ultimate cause of most human suffering, including natural disasters like Katrina or this Japan catastrophe. While it seems a bit callous to say so right after one of these unsafe areas has been hammered by a natural disaster, it deserved to be pointed out: not all areas of Earth are equally suited for human inhabitation. Many areas like large chunks of California, Hawaii, Japan, etc., are quite prone to Earthquakes. There are areas that are vulnerable to volcanoes. Various areas in the American midwest are vulnerable to tornadoes and flooding. Coastal areas are always subject to the vagaries of the sea. Mountainous areas suffer landslides and avalanches. And then of course there are droughts, which can occur pretty much anywhere, but certainly seem to favor certain areas more than others. If you conservatively estimated the sum total of areas on Earth where it was "safe" to build a nuclear plant, let alone safe for people to live, there probably wouldn't be enough room for a billion of us. Moving to areas that are not subject to certain natural disasters is an option for some of us, but for those who stay, periodic catastrophes are just going to happen, and it is foolish to think that they won't. From that standpoint, building nuclear powerplants on that particular chunk of Japan (if not the whole island? I don't know its geology that well) is one reflection of the poor decision making which large population demands and the normalization of those demands exert.

I'm not saying I'm glad anyone suffers, and I'm certainly not suggesting something like "a few more dead people is good because it reduces the population size." But these catastrophes are a good time to be reminded about the real, ultimate causes of such suffering, and how, in the long turn, we humans can avoid such needless suffering if we would transform our societal values relating to families and reproduction. If only those who really have a calling for parenting became parents, we could conceivably in 500 years have this planet back into something like a "normal' state.

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Post #: 32
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 12:53:51 AM   
V22 Osprey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sven


quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

While my heart goes out to the Japanese and their families, I still fail to see how a wealthy highly developed country like Japan deserves my money. This is JAPAN, NOT Haiti where most of the population is living in poverty and there is no way they could recover on their own.

Seems kind of cold, but come on let's be real.


The Japanese suffered a minimum of 18,000 dead, 300 billion dollars worth of damage, and are a FAR more important nation to the US than haiti. It was important to help haiti to engage in an act of kindness for a disadvantaged neighbor, it is VITAL for us to help japan because she is a friend and a close trading partner. Unless the japanese have massive vaults like Cheyenne Mtn all over their nation I am pretty sure they need a hand up.



Hundreds of thousands died in Haiti. This is a very poor country as I previously stated,so 18,000 in a highly developed country is child's play with some candy on the side in comparison. Massive Vaults? Any country that can afford to spend billions apon billions on Fancy High-Speed Trains alone, does not need a hand up.

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Post #: 33
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 1:00:27 AM   
sven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey



Hundreds of thousands died in Haiti. This is a very poor country as I previously stated,so 18,000 in a highly developed country is child's play with some candy on the side in comparison. Massive Vaults? Any country that can afford to spend billions apon billions on Fancy High-Speed Trains alone, does not need a hand up.



Japan suffered a minimum of these numbers.

Glad to know if we build high speed rail here we'll never merit any help or sympathy on the world stage.

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Post #: 34
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 1:08:46 AM   
V22 Osprey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sven


quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey



Hundreds of thousands died in Haiti. This is a very poor country as I previously stated,so 18,000 in a highly developed country is child's play with some candy on the side in comparison. Massive Vaults? Any country that can afford to spend billions apon billions on Fancy High-Speed Trains alone, does not need a hand up.



Japan suffered a minimum of these numbers.

Glad to know if we build high speed rail here we'll never merit any help or sympathy on the world stage.


You missed the point. It's not the fact that they have HSR that does not make them deserves any help(although to build HSR requires you be a fairly wealthy nation anyway), it's the fact that they are ABLE to spend billions on it. If a country can spend billions on Trains ALONE do you honestly think they need financial help? And no, the USA does not deserve any kind of help on the World Stage regardless of HSR. We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world, do we really need any help, especially considering how much we spend on military trying to HELP other countries with their problems. Oh, and America does have HSR in Northeast called the Acela Express. So your point failed before you even finished it.

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 3/22/2011 1:09:40 AM >


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Post #: 35
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 1:33:14 AM   
sven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey


You missed the point. It's not the fact that they have HSR that does not make them deserves any help(although to build HSR requires you be a fairly wealthy nation anyway), it's the fact that they are ABLE to spend billions on it. If a country can spend billions on Trains ALONE do you honestly think they need financial help? And no, the USA does not deserve any kind of help on the World Stage regardless of HSR. We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world, do we really need any help, especially considering how much we spend on military trying to HELP other countries with their problems. Oh, and America does have HSR in Northeast called the Acela Express. So your point failed before you even finished it.


No I think we're sailing at cross purposes here champ.

Oh and saying Amtrak is "high speed rail" compared to what the japanese have wrought is a lot like my saying that my bottle rocket is a lot like the Saturn V moonshot booster.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela_Express

The Acella Express turns a mild profit for a company that loses between 32-45 bucks a passenger depending on who you ask.

Japan needs aid to get back on her feet and assume her place in the economic order. It is a different kind of charity than haiti....also in my opinion *if* we are to start assigning aid based on "need" and "merit" I would rather donate to a nation that does not have the multiple layers of graft and corruption hamstringing her economy.

We'll agree to disagree I'd wager.



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Post #: 36
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 1:47:59 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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V22,

Please re-read my post about the purpose of this thread. Then take a trip to Japan and to Haiti and talk to some of the people affected by these disasters and see if you still feel the same way and if there is such a difference between someone who has lost their home and loved ones in one place or another. I never said Haiti did not need help, but this thread is on Japan. Adding your opinion here on who is "more worthy" of assistance was poor manners and I'm getting mightily disappointed that we can't have a thread like this without people jumping in and derailing it.

Regards,

- Erik



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Post #: 37
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 3:18:23 AM   
V22 Osprey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sven


quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey


You missed the point. It's not the fact that they have HSR that does not make them deserves any help(although to build HSR requires you be a fairly wealthy nation anyway), it's the fact that they are ABLE to spend billions on it. If a country can spend billions on Trains ALONE do you honestly think they need financial help? And no, the USA does not deserve any kind of help on the World Stage regardless of HSR. We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world, do we really need any help, especially considering how much we spend on military trying to HELP other countries with their problems. Oh, and America does have HSR in Northeast called the Acela Express. So your point failed before you even finished it.


No I think we're sailing at cross purposes here champ.

Oh and saying Amtrak is "high speed rail" compared to what the japanese have wrought is a lot like my saying that my bottle rocket is a lot like the Saturn V moonshot booster.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acela_Express

The Acella Express turns a mild profit for a company that loses between 32-45 bucks a passenger depending on who you ask.

Japan needs aid to get back on her feet and assume her place in the economic order. It is a different kind of charity than haiti....also in my opinion *if* we are to start assigning aid based on "need" and "merit" I would rather donate to a nation that does not have the multiple layers of graft and corruption hamstringing her economy.

We'll agree to disagree I'd wager.





I will drop it Erik, I just have one thing to say and me and sven can go to PM.

I thought the whole point of donations was to help people with needs and that merit it?


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Post #: 38
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 5:23:16 AM   
flipperwasirish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I will drop it Erik, I just have one thing to say and me and sven can go to PM.

I thought the whole point of donations was to help people with needs and that merit it?


V22,

I can only hope that when you're older you'll have the maturity to understand the "merit" part of your question doesn't come into play when dealing with disasters like discussed here. If you see somebody drowning you don't stop and ask how much money they have or if they merit assitance.

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Post #: 39
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 5:42:19 AM   
V22 Osprey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish


quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I will drop it Erik, I just have one thing to say and me and sven can go to PM.

I thought the whole point of donations was to help people with needs and that merit it?


V22,

I can only hope that when you're older you'll have the maturity to understand the "merit" part of your question doesn't come into play when dealing with disasters like discussed here. If you see somebody drowning you don't stop and ask how much money they have or if they merit assitance.


I was just waiting for you to comment. Yes, I know you think I'm less of me compared to other members on the forum just because I'm younger. You ALWAYS have to comment on anything I say. It's almost like you are watching everything I say and feel the need to comment on my maturity. Plus, saving someone from directly from drowning and providing the cash to the people that help the people in need are completely different things because the government can pay for the money to help those people.

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Post #: 40
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 8:19:32 AM   
jomni


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Just to put a different perspective...

Japan has been very generous to any country that is hit by disaster.  They are usually big donors.
So why can't we pay it back by being generous to them?

And Japan, though seemingly rich... is a country in very deep debt (just like the United States).

< Message edited by jomni -- 3/22/2011 8:24:03 AM >


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Post #: 41
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 8:38:50 AM   
E

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey
quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish
quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey
I will drop it Erik, I just have one thing to say and me and sven can go to PM.
I thought the whole point of donations was to help people with needs and that merit it?

V22,
I can only hope that when you're older you'll have the maturity to understand the "merit" part of your question doesn't come into play when dealing with disasters like discussed here. If you see somebody drowning you don't stop and ask how much money they have or if they merit assitance.

I was just waiting for you to comment. Yes, I know you think I'm less of me compared to other members on the forum just because I'm younger. You ALWAYS have to comment on anything I say. It's almost like you are watching everything I say and feel the need to comment on my maturity. Plus, saving someone from directly from drowning and providing the cash to the people that help the people in need are completely different things because the government can pay for the money to help those people.

He's right, "merit" has no place in this thread. Between you comparing rich victims versus poor victims, and the other guy comparing which victims do we have a larger stake in... you're both disgusting. -->REAL<-- people were hurt and killed in both places. This thread is about Japan. And FWIW, my daughter-in-law's brother and family were in the area of greatest damage. They survived the initial disasters, but we continue to worry about their baby without shelter. And you two go on about who "merits" help...

A single raised center digit from each of my hands to those who argue merits of needing help.


...And yet, I honestly hope neither of you learns what any of them are going through, by direct or related experience.

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Post #: 42
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 8:52:31 AM   
ilovestrategy


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Japan is our friend. Friends help each other. I've lived in Japan. I know for a fact they love the U.S. I know, I lived in a Japanese household.

And the bottom line is people are people. And the people over there are suffering.


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RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 2:54:17 PM   
V22 Osprey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: E


quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey
quote:

ORIGINAL: flipperwasirish
quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey
I will drop it Erik, I just have one thing to say and me and sven can go to PM.
I thought the whole point of donations was to help people with needs and that merit it?

V22,
I can only hope that when you're older you'll have the maturity to understand the "merit" part of your question doesn't come into play when dealing with disasters like discussed here. If you see somebody drowning you don't stop and ask how much money they have or if they merit assitance.

I was just waiting for you to comment. Yes, I know you think I'm less of me compared to other members on the forum just because I'm younger. You ALWAYS have to comment on anything I say. It's almost like you are watching everything I say and feel the need to comment on my maturity. Plus, saving someone from directly from drowning and providing the cash to the people that help the people in need are completely different things because the government can pay for the money to help those people.

He's right, "merit" has no place in this thread. Between you comparing rich victims versus poor victims, and the other guy comparing which victims do we have a larger stake in... you're both disgusting. -->REAL<-- people were hurt and killed in both places. This thread is about Japan. And FWIW, my daughter-in-law's brother and family were in the area of greatest damage. They survived the initial disasters, but we continue to worry about their baby without shelter. And you two go on about who "merits" help...

A single raised center digit from each of my hands to those who argue merits of needing help.


...And yet, I honestly hope neither of you learns what any of them are going through, by direct or related experience.


You continue to miss the point, if the GOVERNMENT is WEALTHY enough to pay to help their own people, why does the country need our money. It's like Donating to Bill Gates if his house Burnt down. Would you really donate if that happened? You continue to make yourself sound like an Angel, acting like I don't care for the victims at all. You continue to bypass my main point to make it seem I'm cold hearted person doesn't care. I care, I just think the country in question is capable financially to help itself.

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RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 5:20:00 PM   
vonRocko

 

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nevermind

< Message edited by vonRocko -- 3/22/2011 5:58:00 PM >

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Post #: 45
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 5:26:20 PM   
flipperwasirish


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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

Yes, I know you think I'm less of me compared to other members on the forum just because I'm younger. You ALWAYS have to comment on anything I say. It's almost like you are watching everything I say and feel the need to comment on my maturity.


V22,

I do not think less of you period. Some of your commnets come accros as well thought out and mature. Others, such as in this thread painfully reinforce your immaturity. We all had go through this when we grew up. The good news you have time for it to happen normally.

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Post #: 46
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 5:45:37 PM   
uncc


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...for those who are still considering a donation, please check with your employer. Many employers (especially the larger ones) may make a matching donation with proof of your donation. It may require you to make the donation through a specific organization. For example, my wife's company (Lockheed Martin) is matching donations up to a certain amount if the funds are directed through the American Red Cross or the International Federation of the Red Cross.

< Message edited by uncc -- 3/22/2011 6:07:26 PM >


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RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 7:08:55 PM   
06 Maestro


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The comparative wealth of nations is not really that important in deciding to donate. As an example; about 35 years ago there was a very nasty and long lingering arctic weather front that moved into the U.S. north east. Even though up state N.Y. is normally a winter wonderland, this cold was too much for the area-there were fatalities IIRC. Germany (perhaps some other nations) began a large scale winter relief program-gathering heavy winter clothing for Americans. Whoever received such aid from Germany were no doubt very grateful.

The situation in Japan is truly catastrophic. It is not just those who lost homes and the basics for survival, but a large part of the nation is suffering from reduced electricity service resulting in factory shutdowns. In view of the long term economic difficulties that Japan has been dealing with, this disaster is even more difficult to handle.

If the situation is bad enough for even China to give aid to Japan (as far as I know, a first), the situation is bad. People should give what they can.

BTW, I did not know about corporate matching donations-thanks for the link. I am going to lay that on my employer.

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RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 7:32:55 PM   
V22 Osprey


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I didn't know having a different opinion made me immature, just because it's about donations. However I will be happily leaving this forum. Hope Japan recovers, although I think financially and mentally they can handle it on their own. Good Day.

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RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/22/2011 7:44:17 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Ok, any more attempts to derail this thread will result in bans. Consider yourselves warned.

Now, back on topic, this is a useful page that Google has setup:

http://www.google.com/crisisresponse/japanquake2011.html

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Post #: 50
RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/24/2011 10:35:50 AM   
jomni


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Japan donations are lagging compared to Katrina.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/18/pf/japan_earthquake_aid/index.htm?fb_ref=fbLike&fb_source=home_oneline

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RE: JAPAN Aid - 3/25/2011 2:24:53 AM   
Gary Childress


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

Japan donations are lagging compared to Katrina.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/18/pf/japan_earthquake_aid/index.htm?fb_ref=fbLike&fb_source=home_oneline


I don't know if it is so much a case that people don't care as much about Japan as it is the case that people just can't afford to donate as much in this horrible economy. But, yes, that's sad. IIRC Japan donated a lot to Katrina victims.

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