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ATG Random Game Highlights

 
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ATG Random Game Highlights - 3/7/2011 11:53:08 AM   
Webizen


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An ATG play tester's thoughts on Advanced Tactics Gold random games. Enjoy! See the Random Game Setup Screen. Note: See Post #14 in that thread to learn how to use the AT Classic Random Setup Screen to make ATG Random games.

1) Defense is generally stronger which means that artillery and aerial bombardment become important tools to soften up enemy strong points. Of course, armored units are still very useful on the offensive, especially in favorable terrain. Note however that armored units without supporting infantry are vulnerable to counter-attack by enemy infantry.

2) A standard random game starts with your regime's borders fixed and a standing infantry army in place. All regimes are at peace and a regime must expend 20 Political Points to declare war.

Note: there is a 1 Town start option where you must explore to expand your borders. Just as in standard random games, players start at peace. Cities of your own people group will be in the area of your capital with the possibility that some may be located some greater distance away. If you are using this option to play games against the AI, I'd recommend no more than 3 or 4 AI players.

3) Alliances can be made with other human players. Allied units can move into your territory without converting it to their territory, can trace supply through it and even stack with your units. Warning: beware of back stabbers. Your ally can move into your territory and then later declare war on you. They also see everything you see, including a map of all your territory. My experience with AT and other games suggest a house rule is helpful: once in an alliance always in that alliance. Alternatively, a house rule that states you cannot declare war on an ally if you have any units inside his territory. Of course, if you really want the uncertainty of wavering alliances, just play as is.

4) If in an alliance you can give to your ally the following: land hexes, units, and research. The only way to give oil or ore is to give a resource hex of that type. I can see some interesting uses of give land hexes: a stronger regime demands some territorial concessions or it is war. If you want an alliance, then you give me these hexes. You want peace, surrender these hexes to me. You get the idea.

5) Captured enemy cities cannot build units of any kind unless they are of your own people group. Cities not of your people group can only produce Political Points and limited amounts of recycled oil and ore. This is a big change and makes the building of factories (gun, ship, tank and plane) an important consideration in your war planning. Note that captured enemy factories can produce units. These changes mean that the loss of a city or two isn't necessarily all gloom and doom. That said; defend your cities to the best of your abilities. Cities are the only place you can produce supply, PPs, infantry and infantry support weapons (MGs, bazookas, mortars).

6) Oil and Ore (raw) resources limit the effective size of your motorized forces (land, air and sea). Over build and you will experience fuel shortages. This helps keep a more realistic infantry to motorized unit balance. Note that you do start each random game with a large fuel reserve but if you don't pay close attention, it will run out. Resource hexes can be captured and used.

Note: Trains use coal which for game purposes is assumed to be in unlimited supply.

7) Engineer units cannot 'repair' damaged cities or resource hexes. These hexes self-repair at a fixed rate. No more bomb a city into oblivion and then next turn a large stack of engineers rebuild it immediately. Hmmm, are those strategic bombers I see in the sky? Do I hear the thundering boom of heavy artillery?

8) Engineer units can build rail lines, fortifications, ports and shipyards: no more getting stuck on an island with no way to build ships. Also, no more one hex islands. The minimum island size is three hexes.

9) Engineers and staff no longer defend like they are experienced combat troops. Don't put them in the front line alone unless you are willing to risk high losses.

10) The random game map generator creates very interesting maps where each regime has the same number of cities, resource hexes and the same number of at start units. On occasion; however, you may get a geographically inferior position. If playing a two player PBEM game you might consider a restart but if playing a four or more player game, I would suggest you just deal with the territory you have. Trying to satisfy all players will just lead to frustration and delays. Consider alliances to shore up your position. If you want everything exactly equal, use mirror map mode (only available in two player games), but then mirror map mode is for wimps .

Roy, aka Tac2i
Internal VR Designs Play Tester

< Message edited by Webizen -- 9/19/2013 12:07:03 AM >
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Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 1:28:29 PM   
Webizen


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This screen shot (zoomed in mode, units unstacked) shows a test game currently in progress between 4 humans and 4 AI. Into turn 11 the the humans are still at peace. One human player is attacking one of the AI and two human players are both attacking another AI. One AI has joined the attack on the same AI the two humans are attacking. An uneasiness permeates the peace between the humans. Who is going to do what to whom, when??? In this particular game everyone made an alliance with each other. One or more players will eventually betray and attack.

Note: hex coloring is turned on in this screen shot.

Roy, aka Tac2i
Internal VR Designs Play Tester




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Webizen)
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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 3:20:26 PM   
Josh

 

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Thanks for the screenie.

What do the coloured bars mean next to the city of Orleans?

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 3:32:20 PM   
Webizen


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The colored bar indicates the state of Orleans health. Orleans has been heavily shelled by artillery. Now that it has been captured, its health will improve a little turn by turn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

Thanks for the screenie.

What do the coloured bars mean next to the city of Orleans?



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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 3:41:21 PM   
Barthheart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

The colored bar indicates the state of Orleans health. Orleans has been heavily shelled by artillery. Now that it has been captured, its health will improve a little turn by turn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

Thanks for the screenie.

What do the coloured bars mean next to the city of Orleans?




The coloured bar on the other side, left side, of the city matches the HQ the city is attached to.

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 3:44:50 PM   
Josh

 

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" The coloured bar on the other side, left side, of the city matches the HQ the city is attached to..."

Doh, now *that* is an improvement!  Who came up with that simple but absolutely great idea?

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 3:58:19 PM   
Barthheart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

" The coloured bar on the other side, left side, of the city matches the HQ the city is attached to..."

Doh, now *that* is an improvement!  Who came up with that simple but absolutely great idea?


Vic of course!

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 5:54:16 PM   
mgaffn1

 

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Looks good! Visuals are improved over original AT, but are still simple & graphic. I've got enough games with the pseudo-3D visuals that don't help the game & actually distract from playability.
Like the improvements for random games too - especially the natural resources. This will add a whole layer of complexity to the games.

All in all, the changes you've made to this game are very exciting - & most importantly you've kept intact the more appealing aspects of this game. Can't wait to buy it!
cheers,

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 7:39:02 PM   
Widell


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"Captured enemy cities cannot produce units of any kind"

Mot sure about that one. Shouldn't that be a parameter set per regime? It's not necessarily so that a captured city should not be able to produce units per default. Specially in historic, or should I say semi historic, settings a French city should produce extremely limited number of units when occupied by the Axis, but should produce more or less unrestricted if occupied by the Allies.

At least give the scenario designers an on/off option per regime. Ideally I'd like a "unit production percentage" per regime, but that may be for the future?

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 7:55:10 PM   
Barthheart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Widell

"Captured enemy cities cannot produce units of any kind"

Mot sure about that one. Shouldn't that be a parameter set per regime? It's not necessarily so that a captured city should not be able to produce units per default. Specially in historic, or should I say semi historic, settings a French city should produce extremely limited number of units when occupied by the Axis, but should produce more or less unrestricted if occupied by the Allies.

At least give the scenario designers an on/off option per regime. Ideally I'd like a "unit production percentage" per regime, but that may be for the future?


He was talking about random games there. Yes this is still a settable thing in the editor. In random games however, If I'm Arabs and capture a city that is set to have Chinese people then I can't build units there.


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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 7:59:37 PM   
Westheim

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

In random games however, If I'm Arabs and capture a city that is set to have Chinese people then I can't build units there.



I don't like the sound of this ......

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 8:39:16 PM   
Grymme

 

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I think, Vic/Matrixgames can correct me here, that in ATG you will be able to choose both between the new improved Random games and the old Classic Random games.

I have not seen the latest download so correct me if i am wrong.

Everything is editable, off course.

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 9:11:11 PM   
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Imagine giving/sending a complete unit to an ally or perhaps giving equipment to an ally that he does not have, i.e. sending level III mortar to your ally that only have level II mortar, but you don't send the actual research to them...unless you wish.  Stacking with an ally....a player can now send an expeditionary force to an ally and fight alongside them on their own turf.  Giving of land/hexes away to an ally.  The game additions will make for rich, interesting multiplayer games in my mind.  I'm sure some of the scenarios that will be made with ATG will be classics.
Respectfully, Arditi

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 9:33:47 PM   
Josh

 

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When you're near going gold, say two weeks prior, then it might be a good idea to write an AAR or two. One with a random game, and one historical one. Needn't be large AAR's, just a few turns to give people an idea of what they can expect of this new installment of AT. *If* you guys have the time ofcourse.

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 9:42:19 PM   
Grymme

 

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I have an AAR written down on the first Human vs Human testgame of my historical Fire in the East scenario. Just have to get back to my town and i will post it.

Its mixed graphics though, mostly ATG landscape graphics but with some other graphics mixed in. 

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 10:38:35 PM   
Webizen


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I've written one for a game against the AI. Not sure when or where it will published. Matrix Games will make that decision.

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/7/2011 10:59:38 PM   
Webizen


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Re: "Captured enemy cities cannot produce units of any kind"

Lets think about this a bit. In the original AT all random games started as a one city start. It was then a race to rapidly expand and it was usually the player who won that race that won that game. That player would have the production power to start conquering another player's cities and that just accelerated the poor fellow's downfall because those captured cities would start churning out infantry, tanks and planes. I know that someone created a mod for the original AT that allowed at start empires but it still suffered from the "capture and churn" out new units from a captured enemy city.

ATG does not allow you to produce units from a captured enemy city. This is a good thing in this AT player's opinion. You still gain advantages from captured enemy cities as I mentioned in my original post and your opponent loses all his production from that city. There have been some tense and operationally interesting test games because of this feature. Generally speaking, wars are likely to last longer. A regime that is "losing" a war has a better chance to hold out longer and perhaps due to some timely alliances, might have a chance to reverse his fortune. Overall, I believe players will find that this feature truly makes for some very interesting wargaming.

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/8/2011 6:07:00 AM   
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So, if you start with few cities you basically have no chance of winning a game, since you will never be able to produce in captured cities (beyond the few you start with). Sounds like it breaks the game for me.

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/8/2011 11:49:42 AM   
Grymme

 

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Westheim. No matter preferenses, and i can see your point (and i do not know the details). Any such settings will be easily moddable in the editor and it will be no problem playing games with the settings you prefer.

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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/8/2011 12:06:34 PM   
Barthheart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Westheim

So, if you start with few cities you basically have no chance of winning a game, since you will never be able to produce in captured cities (beyond the few you start with). Sounds like it breaks the game for me.


In random games you can start with 1 city and no army. This means that around you are a bunch of cities of your people type that you'll need to capture before others so you cn produce more (not too difficult to get 4 or 5 before real fighting starts.)
In random games you can start with countries. This means you start with many cities and a fair sized standing army. Everyone starts about the same.
You can play classic random games - play just like in AT.


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RE: Current 4 Human/4 AI ATG Random Test Game - 3/8/2011 12:50:38 PM   
Webizen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Westheim

So, if you start with few cities you basically have no chance of winning a game, since you will never be able to produce in captured cities (beyond the few you start with). Sounds like it breaks the game for me.


It is interesting that you mention 'few cities' because in some of the test games I've played against the AI and a couple of ongoing games against human players, these are the options that were chosen: medium map and deserted lands (few cities). On a medium map, this means each player has three cities. You find that you have to carefully manage your production as you can't do everything at once or quickly. If you establish an alliance and trade research, that part of the game can advance more quickly, especially if players refrain from going to war early. The geography of the map (mountains, rivers, etc.) and the layout of the land masses has a large bearing on a particular regime's war planning. Maps are always different, skill of players varied, and coupled with the variability of timing of operational events as players move and engage, this all comes together to impact game play. This is why I enjoy AT/ATG random games so much.

I think I understand where you are coming from in your comments but I believe you'll be surprised at how fun and operationally interesting ATG random games can be. Loss of a city is damaging to the player that lost it and enhances the capabilities of the regime that captured it, just not to the extent of the original AT. What I usually do when I capture an enemy city is set it to produce Political Points and then reduce by the same amount the number of PPs at one of my native cities so I can construct more combat units.

With all the options available for random games in ATG, re-playability is really a very strong point. I'm excited to see this game get released and hear the feedback from a much wider audience of players. Like almost all computer games, if something isn't working as intended or isn't resulting in fun game play, the game gets tweaked till it does.


< Message edited by Webizen -- 3/8/2011 5:51:21 PM >


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RE: ATG Random Game Highlights - 3/8/2011 5:48:37 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

no more one hex islands. The minimum island size is three hexes


Presumably this refers to random games only?

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RE: ATG Random Game Highlights - 3/8/2011 6:00:00 PM   
Barthheart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CSO_Talorgan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Webizen

no more one hex islands. The minimum island size is three hexes


Presumably this refers to random games only?


Yes.

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RE: ATG Random Game Highlights - 3/8/2011 6:01:34 PM   
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The whole thread is random games only.

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RE: ATG Random Game Highlights - 3/8/2011 7:28:49 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barthheart

Yes


Phew!

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RE: ATG Random Game Highlights - 3/8/2011 9:07:43 PM   
Webizen


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Yep... that is all I addressed in my original post: random games. Perhaps one of the testers that designs scenarios will drop by and start a thread about the new editor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grymme

The whole thread is random games only.



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RE: ATG Random Game Highlights - 3/8/2011 10:55:17 PM   
Arditi


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Not to worry guys.  If you were a fan of AT you will love ATG I bet.
Respectfully, Arditi

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RE: ATG Random Game Highlights - 3/9/2011 12:55:50 AM   
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I like the big hex with multiple counters.
Looks like you're getting some ideas for modern board wargames.
Counter stacking on small hexes is old school.

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RE: ATG Random Game Highlights - 3/9/2011 5:24:26 PM   
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A little question, is the OOB display as in AT or as the used on DC??? thanks.

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RE: ATG Random Game Highlights - 3/9/2011 5:45:45 PM   
Barthheart


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

A little question, is the OOB display as in AT or as the used on DC??? thanks.


Same as AT.

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