Matrix Games

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ORIGINAL: inqistor

It all began, when I realised, that Japan players outproduce their Armament Points, and generally turn its production off, at the beginning of 1943. This is in exact opposite to what actually happened in IRL (and WITP). Then I discovered, that Japan squads actually DO NOT UPGRADE (which, again is opposite to what happened in WITP), and whole Japan statistics are quite questionably done from both design (ie, implementation decision in game terms, have exact opposite result, as planned IRL), and historical point of view. Here is link to "research" thread. There is also serious error, in that most "special" squads are modelled after TYPE B platoon (Device 07, which has 20 Soft Attack), with 3 GDs per platoon, while they were IRL modelled after TYPE A platoon (Device 709, which has 22 Soft Attack), with 4 GDs.
MOD mostly takes care of Japan Shaped Charge technology import, from Germany, in mid-1942, introduction of TYPE 97 20mm AT Rifle, for Pacific/Burma-front units, and equipping Paratroops with TYPE 100 SMGs.

MOD, in greater, or lesser way address several game problems:
Lots of burned Armament Points in early 1943. So that should force Japan player to keep Armament production, and use more HI.
Reason, for both sides, to push into ending/not ending the war at historical date. At 9/45 things will get tough for Allied armour, of course if Japan hoarded enough Armament Production.
IJA squad becomes larger. That means Division will need more transport capacity (over 1500 extra men), and will use more supply (again, more transports needed).
All Japan squads get upgrade at 1942/1943. That will allow them remain competitive for a longer time, and inflict more loses to Allies (especially in disabled devices), so overall tempo of operations will be slower.
Stronger AT strength, will result in slightly more destroyed Allied tanks, and MUCH MORE disabled. Again, slower tempo.
SNLF squads are smaller (and early version is also weaker). If you are seeking garrison for your small island, SNLF units are your first choice.
Paratroopers are MUCH stronger. They should easily dispatch lone base force. Allies have now real need for using all those small battalions for protecting LOC.

So, first, questions:
1) Do I have to get some other files, or just changing few devices in scenario, and saving it in different slot, is enough? (is there 11 files in ONE scenario?!! Do I have to pack them all? This will take over 11 Mb)
2) Which slots are currently "commonly" taken. I understand Scenario should have number over 25?
3) what happens, when two squads are in production, one of them upgrade of the other? If they would have monthly number of production, I would guess, the "old type" would be immediately upgraded to "new type". But in case of infinite Japan production? Does it mess everything, or actually allows to take replacements, without upgrading the whole division?

Here is table. There are some changes to keep it consistent with game design. Green colour means, number is greater, than previous AE scenario, Red colour, means, that this number is lower:

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ORIGINAL: Buck Beach
But I can't tell the green from the red

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Yamato's main guns fired 27 rounds of Mk III AA shells during the battle of Mariana.

During the battle of Leyte Gylf, Nagato's main guns fired 45 rounds of Mk I AP shells, 52 rounds of Mk Zero HE shells, and 84 rounds of Mk III AA shells. Yamato and Musashi both fired Mk III shells during the first air raid on Oct 24, but Musashi's captain refused his ordnance officer's request during the second raid.

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Type 3 Common may have made up as much as 40% of the outfit by 1944.

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Bursting Charge Power - The following approximations of explosive power may be used using TNT = 1.00 as a reference point.

* Before and during World War I
o Black powder = 0.33 to 0.50
o Guncotton = 0.50
o Picric Acid = about 1.05 to 1.10
o USA Explosive D = 0.95

* After World War I
o German and Italian TNT = 1.00
o British Shellite = 0.96
o Japanese TNA = 1.05
o USA Explosive D = 0.95

* Other Explosives (torpedo warheads, mines, depth charges)
o Amatol (80/20) = 1.24
o DD (Dinitronaphthalene/Dinitrophenol 60/40) = 0.82
o PETN = 2.21
o MDN (Melinite/Dinitronaphthalene 80/20) = 0.88
o RDX = 1.94
o Tetryl = 1.39
o Torpex (TPX) = 1.50
o HBX-1 = 1.17
o HBX-3 = 1.14
o German SW types = about 1.07
o Japanese Type 97 (TNT/hexanitrodiphenylamine 60/40) = about 1.07

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Sankaidan - Japanese for "fragmentation." Also known as "incendiary shrapnel shells" (shôi ryûsandan). These were AA rounds which contained hundreds of incendiary-filled steel tubes and officially designated as "Type 3 Common Shells" (3 Shiki tsûjôdan). The incendiary filling was "Elektron" metal (45%), barium nitrate (40%) and rubber (14.3%) together with sulfur (0.5%) and stearic acid (0.2%). "Elektron" was a trade name for a metal alloy composed primarily of magnesium (90%) with the balance being aluminum (3%), copper (3%), zinc (2%) and silicon (2%). Besides their incendiary effect, the steel tubes also acted as shrapnel. The Type 3 was first deployed in 1942 for 20 cm (8 in) and larger guns and in 1943 for the 12.7 cm/40 (5 in) AA and 12.7 cm/50 (5 in) DP guns. The 46 cm (18.1 in) Type 3 projectiles for the Yamato class battleships may have been nicknamed "The Beehive" but this could be apocryphal. A time fuze was used to set the desired bursting distance, usually about 1,000 meters (1,100 yards) after leaving the muzzle. These projectiles were designed to burst in a 20 degree cone extending towards the oncoming aircraft with the projectile shell itself being destroyed by a bursting charge to increase the quantity of steel splinters. The incendiary tubes ignited about half a second later and burned for five seconds at 3,000 degrees C, producing a flame about 5 meters (16 feet) long. These shells were thought to have a larger lethal radius than did standard HE AA rounds. The concept behind these shells was that the ship would put up a barrage pattern through which an attacking aircraft would have to fly. However, the USN pilots considered them to be little more than fireworks and not an effective AA weapon.

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It seems, that Japan used 10% better explosive material in their projectiles. Does, it mean, that we should multiply guns effectiveness by that values?

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Sankaidan - Japanese for "fragmentation." Also known as "incendiary shrapnel shells"

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ORIGINAL: dwg

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It seems, that Japan used 10% better explosive material in their projectiles. Does, it mean, that we should multiply guns effectiveness by that values?

Are they included already? You'll need to reverse the calculation to see if effectiveness correlates to bursting charge or to bursting charge times equivalent explosive power. Even then damage isn't solely a factor of burster size, particularly for AP.

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Sankaidan - Japanese for "fragmentation." Also known as "incendiary shrapnel shells"

I think the significant part of that quote is: "USN pilots considered them to be little more than fireworks and not an effective AA weapon."

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battleship Nagato firing Mk III AA shells during battle of Sibuyan

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ORIGINAL: inqistor

It seems, that Japan used 10% better explosive material in their projectiles.
Does, it mean, that we should multiply guns effectiveness by that values?

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ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

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ORIGINAL: inqistor

It seems, that Japan used 10% better explosive material in their projectiles.
Does, it mean, that we should multiply guns effectiveness by that values?

If you want to get into this,

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you should also include the fact that picric acid explosive was highly unstable (witness the destruction of the Mutsu)

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and tended to burst on impact rather than after penetration (spoiling the armour piercing effect).

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ORIGINAL: inqistor
It seems, that Japan used 10% better explosive material in their projectiles.
Does, it mean, that we should multiply guns effectiveness by that values?

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ORIGINAL: JWE
At the wars beginning, an Allied shell was approximately 1.6 times more effective than an equivalent Japanese shell. By 1943, an Allied shell was approximately 2.2 times more effective than an equivalent Japanese shell. By 1945, an Allied shell was approximately 5.7 times more effective than an equivalent Japanese shell.

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ORIGINAL: FatR

I don't think that making any special allowance for things of marginal effectiveness like San-Shiki shells makes sense. There is a degree of abstraction in the game after all.

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Or, for another example, there is no differentiation between gun mounts save for that written in the statistics of the gun itself. Allies get some early bonuses from this, but Japanese benefit much more, when late in the war every single 25mm manually-operated mount with a simple ring scope (which are added in droves to almost everything that floats by late-war upgrades) has exactly 1/3 effectiveness of a triple powered mount, connected to a fire director, even though realistically the flak value of the former should have been, like, 1/30 of the latter.

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ORIGINAL: inqistor
Actually I think it is an error.

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I do not know,

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if in-game mounts actually increase chance of hit,

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but there are MG(x2), and Quad-MGs as single Devices, so it seems triple-AA-mounts should be also one Device.

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Surprise, surprise, there is Device 602, Triple 25mm AA gun. I do not see it used anywhere, so...

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what are benefits of several mountings on ships?

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ORIGINAL: Terminus
Let the fanboi have his fun, John.

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ORIGINAL: JWE

This is a one time response, because you are telling people you have figured it out, when you have not figured it out. You are giving people a false impression. The eff data number is the projectile weight, but there are 9 different combat modes that calculate effectiveness from data 9 different ways, off the base data number. You dink with the base, your game goes into the dumper.

You may, of course, do your mod in any manner you please. But your conclusions are not based on anything having to do with the game's combat algorithms.

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but there are MG(x2), and Quad-MGs as single Devices, so it seems triple-AA-mounts should be also one Device.

No, they should not.

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Surprise, surprise, there is Device 602, Triple 25mm AA gun. I do not see it used anywhere, so...

Surprise, surprise, device 602 is a holdover from WiTP-1 and is not used in WiTP-AE

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SBD-3 Dauntless x 26
TBM-3 Avenger x 18


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 destroyed, 7 damaged
TBM-3 Avenger: 3 destroyed, 10 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 3
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Nagato
CA Tone
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 3, on fire

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SBD-3 Dauntless x 55


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 4
BB Haruna
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 8, on fire
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 1, on fire
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TBM-3 Avenger x 18


Allied aircraft losses
TBM-3 Avenger: 5 destroyed, 6 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko, on fire
BB Haruna
BB Nagato, on fire
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SBD-3 Dauntless x 29


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
BB Nagato
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 4, on fire

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SBD-3 Dauntless x 55
TBM-3 Avenger x 18


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 16 damaged
TBM-3 Avenger: 1 destroyed, 11 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA Tone
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires
CA Takao, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 10, heavy fires
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SBD-3 Dauntless x 52
TBM-3 Avenger x 41


Japanese aircraft losses
No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 3 damaged
TBM-3 Avenger: 3 destroyed, 8 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 16, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
CA Tone, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

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SBD-3 Dauntless x 55
TBM-3 Avenger x 18


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 13 damaged
TBM-3 Avenger: 3 destroyed, 10 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 8, on fire
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 3
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 10, on fire
CA Tone, Torpedo hits 1

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SBD-3 Dauntless x 29
TBM-3 Avenger x 18


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 11 damaged
TBM-3 Avenger: 1 destroyed, 10 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Yamato
BB Nagato
CA Takao
CA Tone, Bomb hits 1
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SBD-3 Dauntless x 54


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 7 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 8, on fire
CA Tone
BB Yamato, Bomb hits 1

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The Japanese produced following kinds of HEAT shell.
Among them, the HEAT of Type 41 Mountain Gun was used in action and destroyed several Allied tanks in Burma and other places. The use of the HEAT for other guns is not known.

Below is the photo on the HEAT of Type 94 Mountain Gun. The HEAT of Type 94 Mountain Gun was not produced though it was developed.