Matrix Games

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

I always woundered just how many of the Allied ships in the Pacific were actualy used on the run to the USSR and theirfore not realy in our war???

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Lend-Lease reached Russia through four routes, two of which were within the scope of the Pacific War. The Persian route ran through the western Indian Ocean and through Iran (Persia) into south Russia. It would have been susceptible to attack had the Japanese seized Madagascar or even Colombo, and did suffer some losses from far-ranging German and Japanese submarines

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

quote:

Lend-Lease reached Russia through four routes, two of which were within the scope of the Pacific War. The Persian route ran through the western Indian Ocean and through Iran (Persia) into south Russia. It would have been susceptible to attack had the Japanese seized Madagascar or even Colombo, and did suffer some losses from far-ranging German and Japanese submarines

It was my understanding that these ships were not Rusian flaged, and that the ships on the Alaska run were not Russian entirely.

That Russian ships picked up material in Alaska, the vast bulk of which was sent their from the US west coast on US ships, the Alcan did come on line untill later and then did not move as much as the seaboarn rute.

Sometime ago I spot checked some ships and while I was looking for "other" things I noticed that many were on runs to Alaska for most of the war.

Howeaver I dont know how many actualy serviced this route.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

I beelave it was in Thunder Below that I recalled reading of the USS Barb setting up on a convoy, only to stop at the last second as it was a Soviet Convoy while she was in the Sea of Otousk (sp?). Its posable that the ships sunk were by US sub's I suspect in part.

When I was doing some stuff for WiTE I came across an article that sugested to me a lot of the material was carried on US flaged ships to Alaska, I nead to try and find that.

The ships to Indian Ports though were not Rusian Flaged ships afik.

quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89
To take this is a different direction, perhaps our problem lies in capacity not numbers. In WiTP my one PBEM that went into 1945 was a BigB 1.4 game. My discussions with Brian (who is stalking these Forums again these days) revealed that one of the things he did in the mod was to alter capacilites. I don't think this was 100% a work around to make the mod work. I think he felt that ships capacities were overstated.

You have so many ways of looking at tonnage/capacity. The standard seems to be GRT with its each ton = 100 cubic feet of volume. Then there is NRT which is probably a better measure but rarely available. GT is probably of little use.

Wiki Definitiions

Perhaps the problem is no more complex than the formula for converting GRT/NRT to AE based cargo capacity is just off. I obviously don't have the methodology that was used, but it really does make sense. Would love to hear from JWE or other people in the know on this matter

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ORIGINAL: treespider

For Brady's benefit...

Register of Ships received by Soviet Union as per Lend-Lease Agreement

(can't believe I took time to look for this...)

On average during the "peak" period (the final 26 months of the war) of Soviet Far East Shipments an average of 36 ships per month visited Soviet Far East ports.

I'm not certain, but my guess is, these ships are not included in the Allied total as Brady would like to suggest. On to other conspiracy theories...

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< Message edited by treespider -- 2/22/2011 6:03:25 AM >

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ORIGINAL: vettim89

Stuman I think there are convoys that arrive at Vlad ala Cape Town periodically that represent this. WIthout a code change, it would be impossible to stop the USSR flagged ships from being attacked

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ORIGINAL: stuman

More stuff:

In Print
Russia's Life-Saver: Lend-Lease Aid to the U.S.S.R. in World War II,
by Albert Weeks



" The ships proceeded in convoy, the Japanese were informed by the
Soviet government of the size, makeup and route of the convoy

> Was it all Russian shipping?
A typical convoy left Seattle for Vladivostok in Jan 1944.
It was composed of 46 merchantmen (all 8-10K ton ships); built by
McCormack Ship Yards that were Soviet flagged and Soviet crewed.

Six of the 46 ships were loaded with ammunitions and small arms. Four of the
46 ships were loaded with foodstuffs. Two of the 46 ships were loaded by
Dodge (presumably with trucks). One ship was loaded by Westinghouse
(presumably with communications gear).

They carried:
20,000 tons of steel provided by U.S. Steel.
3,000 truck chassis, by Ford (the Soviets also assembled U.S. trucks from
parts).
3,000 truck differentials from Thornton Tandem Co.
2,000 tractors by Allis Chalmers Co. (agricultural and military use)
1,500 automotive batteries from the Price Battery Corp.
1,000 aircraft provided by the North American Aviation Co.
612 airplanes from the Douglas Aircraft Co.
600 trucks from Mack.
500 Allison aircraft engines.
500 half-tracks from Minneapolis Moline Co.
400 airplanes from Bell Aircraft
400 electric motors from Wagner Electric Co.
400 truck chassis by GM (see Ford above)
310 tons of ball bearings from the Fafnir Company.
200 aircraft provided by the U.S. Navy
200 aircraft engines by Aeromarine
100 tractor-trailer units by GM (trucks)
70 aircraft engines by Pratt & Whitney "

There seems to be conflicting info. Some sources state that the crews operating the shipping docking in Soviet ports were always Russian, which makes sense to me. But others imply maybe some were crewed by Americans. I will keep poking around.

Not sure any of this affects our game. But interesting anyway.

You guys are slowly turning me into a ship fanatic
I am starting to accumulate a nice stack of books, articles, web sites.......

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In 1942-1944 the Soviet Union chartered about 120 American ships and 50 U.S. tankers, and to protect these vessels from attack by Japan in the wake of its December 1941 strafing of Pearl Harbor, American crews sailed under the Soviet hammer and sickle flag

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ORIGINAL: Brady

quote:

In 1942-1944 the Soviet Union chartered about 120 American ships and 50 U.S. tankers, and to protect these vessels from attack by Japan in the wake of its December 1941 strafing of Pearl Harbor, American crews sailed under the Soviet hammer and sickle flag

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ORIGINAL: Nikademus
Here's a shot in the dark.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
Here's a shot in the dark.

Yes. There's two (actually 7) things happening.

There's the idea that some form of resources and oil need to be transported to Japan for processing into useable components, and then there's the other 5, which is distributing the resource and oil inputs to the end-users as supply and fuel, and providing input to the factories.

It is practically impossible to differentiate between a "point" or a "ton", or anything like that, or even determine what a "point" or a "ton" actually means. By using a "word", it allows all the whackos to ping on the "word". But the "idea" is the game premise: this is several steps up the conceptual ladder. The game works at the top couple rungs of the conceptual ladder; the "words" are just chrome.

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ORIGINAL: oldman45

Oh fine, make it that simple

Just wondering out loud, why didn't they seperate fuel and av gas as an end product?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
Here's a shot in the dark.

Yes. There's two (actually 7) things happening.

There's the idea that some form of resources and oil need to be transported to Japan for processing into useable components, and then there's the other 5, which is distributing the resource and oil inputs to the end-users as supply and fuel, and providing input to the factories.

It is practically impossible to differentiate between a "point" or a "ton", or anything like that, or even determine what a "point" or a "ton" actually means. By using a "word", it allows all the whackos to ping on the "word". But the "idea" is the game premise: this is several steps up the conceptual ladder. The game works at the top couple rungs of the conceptual ladder; the "words" are just chrome.

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ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
Here's a shot in the dark.

Yes. There's two (actually 7) things happening.

There's the idea that some form of resources and oil need to be transported to Japan for processing into useable components, and then there's the other 5, which is distributing the resource and oil inputs to the end-users as supply and fuel, and providing input to the factories.

It is practically impossible to differentiate between a "point" or a "ton", or anything like that, or even determine what a "point" or a "ton" actually means. By using a "word", it allows all the whackos to ping on the "word". But the "idea" is the game premise: this is several steps up the conceptual ladder. The game works at the top couple rungs of the conceptual ladder; the "words" are just chrome.

Maybe avoid using the "word" and instead substitute the symbol for delta or sigma?

Alfred

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ORIGINAL: oldman45
Just wondering out loud, why didn't they seperate fuel and av gas as an end product?

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ORIGINAL: Nikademus
Only Gary Grigsby knows. I would 'speculate' it was done that way for simplicities sake. The game is enough of a micromanagement nightmare as it is. (sometimes called...."Quartermaster in the Pacific")