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Amazing AI !!

 
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Amazing AI !! - 2/14/2011 7:36:51 PM   
garymiboy

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: West Yorkshire
Status: offline 		Hi,Guys.

has anyone else come across this?.

I have run a saved game file on 3 occasions for a few minutes..was the tutorial just getting to steinbeck bridge.and Every time the AI has done different moves.anyone doubting the quality of the AI on this awesome game needs to have a serious word with themselves!!
been playing it a while now.and no ther wargame comes close to it for utter realism !!.
congrats you guys at panther.
dont suppose your considering doing stalingrad with this awesome game engine?
Post #: 1
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/14/2011 8:19:09 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Stalingrad city fighting would have to be squad or platoon scale and I'm not sure if the game can do it....

A similar game made from the ground up for squad\platoon level would be superb and I'd buy straight away...even better if it was Stalingrad.

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

(in reply to garymiboy)
Post #: 2
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/20/2011 6:09:31 PM   
garymiboy

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: West Yorkshire
Status: offline 		yes now ive thought about it.i think your right... but wouldnt it be great if Panther/matrix got something similar to the command ops engine.that did city battles.. like you i would buy it..and im sure it would be a top seller.as the stalingrad conflict as well as others have always been some of the most popular war areas that are always of high interet..but there hasnt been any game engine that has done it yet.. you cant really call close combat the right engine as its too restricted.and doesnt have the almost complete flexibilty of the command ops engine..would like to know the guys from panthers thoughts on this.and if anything is bieng "kicked about" in the development office ?


(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 3
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/20/2011 9:34:07 PM   
Arjuna


Posts: 16448
Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline 		Urban conflict requires great detail. We would need to scale down the unit size to do it properly. It would also require more doctrine to be written to model the street tactics. By and large it boils down to an approach where you fight block by block, if not house by house. At a minimum you would need to go to line platoons with support sections, which is the scale BTW that we are going to use for the military version, should that go ahead. So you never know your luck.

_____________________________

Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com

(in reply to garymiboy)
Post #: 4
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/21/2011 11:44:27 AM   
wodin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Urban conflict requires great detail. We would need to scale down the unit size to do it properly. It would also require more doctrine to be written to model the street tactics. By and large it boils down to an approach where you fight block by block, if not house by house. At a minimum you would need to go to line platoons with support sections, which is the scale BTW that we are going to use for the military version, should that go ahead. So you never know your luck.



Dave,

You really have got me very excited with this bit of info....platoon level city fighting...oh my...Stalingrad...holy moley...IF you went ahead with this then I for one will be very very excited wargamer indeed...my favourite scale is tactical platoon or squad...with this engine it would sure be something to experience ...my fingers are crossed.

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

(in reply to Arjuna)
Post #: 5
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/21/2011 11:44:57 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Actually I'm now on my knees begging...

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

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Post #: 6
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/21/2011 6:56:47 PM   
OlegHasky


Posts: 147
Joined: 9/7/2009
From: Hamburg
Status: offline 		Look out woodin.. the position youre in is close to dangerous..
Its a one step from MAtrix annoucement, that it will require something more (from the level of knees) than bagging..
The sugestion could be so strong, price so rewarding.. you might find hard to resist

< Message edited by OlegHasky -- 2/21/2011 7:43:38 PM >

_____________________________

Hexamon have no use for laws! ..or governments.. We are strrrong... We obey NO ONE!...

Misarians.. Your names all meen -surrender!!...

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 7
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/21/2011 9:17:12 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I'm still on my knees....ready for anything...I have no dignity...for a tactical game

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

(in reply to OlegHasky)
Post #: 8
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/21/2011 10:23:37 PM   
benpark


Posts: 3736
Joined: 8/12/2002
From: New Haven, CT
Status: offline 		I'll add my name to the list of people interested. Berlin, Stalingrad etc. would be great.

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"Fear is a darkroom where the devil develops his negatives" Gary Busey


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Post #: 9
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/21/2011 11:18:09 PM   
Happy Hedonist

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 6/16/2010
Status: offline 		Wodin, I'm right there with you.  A tactical game with the Command Ops engine would get my money, probably day 1 too.

(in reply to benpark)
Post #: 10
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/22/2011 11:20:26 PM   
Deathtreader


Posts: 650
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Vancouver, Canada.
Status: offline
Sorry guys.......I have to disagree. I'd hate to see this line of games go tactical.
However, to each his own

Rob.

_____________________________

So we're at war with the Russkies eh?? I suppose we really ought to invade or something. (Lonnnng pause while studying the map)
Hmmmm... big place ain't it??
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Post #: 11
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/23/2011 1:48:07 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		To each his own...I just love tactical games..though if it is say post Korea I'm out.

I do feel though that if the Military thing goes ahead the game scale will change to platoon. As the core engine will be done already. I doubt Dave would have the time to develop the military sim and continue the Command Ops line. The new engine developed for the military could then be used for a commercial release.

< Message edited by wodin -- 2/23/2011 1:51:26 AM >

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

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Post #: 12
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/23/2011 9:43:46 AM   
RayWolfe

 

Posts: 1544
Joined: 2/5/2003
From: Kent in the UK
Status: offline 		Funny how you guys who have worked so hard to become Generals, wish to be demoted to Corporal!
Perhaps it's the pressure, perhaps you're aware of your own inadequacies, perhaps you want mum to run your life again.
So sad, so sad.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 13
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/23/2011 6:57:10 PM   
parmenio

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 8/6/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathtreader
Sorry guys.......I have to disagree. I'd hate to see this line of games go tactical.


Yeah - I'm with you on this one.

This is already at a "lower" level than I prefer but removing the ClickFest by having a competent AI means it has been incredibly enjoyable so far. In fact, I'd go so far as to say this is best computer-based wargame I've ever played.

(in reply to Deathtreader)
Post #: 14
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/23/2011 7:17:48 PM   
phoenix

 

Posts: 951
Joined: 9/28/2010
Status: offline 		Well, it's not either/or. This is a fantastic game, but tactical games would be fantastic too if they weren't just stupid click-fests. Combat Mission Shock Force, for example, is half-decent, but there's no AI worth speaking of at all, which makes it a bit silly at the end of the day. You have to command each and every unit. If you forget about them then the only thing they can do, basically, is retreat under fire. I would really love to see the AI in BFTB in a tactical environment. You don't need the little sprites etc at all. All those graphics are a waste of time compared to pleasure of watching the AI handle a complex attack in BFTB. If you could do a more detailed map and get that down to squads I think it would be fantastic, with or without beautiful graphics. I'd happily pay the BFTB price for that.

(in reply to parmenio)
Post #: 15
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/23/2011 8:52:07 PM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I really don't think the game would become a clickfest...I expect we would be looking say battalion level as the highest level...also knowing how Panther operate they wouldn't make or design a game that was a clickfest....even at platoon level...remember you will still be giving orders at a higher level than a squad most of the time just like you do with companies at the moment...the maps would I epxpect be very detailed...

I envisage the Barrikkady factory battle, with the recently arrived pioneer battalions...that would be a fantastic battle...Island of Fire is a fantastic book and a superb resource which if Dave did make a WW2 platoon level game I'd make the scenario...

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/Tacticalwargame

My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

https://www.facebook.com/jason.costa.rimmer

(in reply to phoenix)
Post #: 16
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/24/2011 5:36:50 PM   
garymiboy

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: West Yorkshire
Status: offline 		Wow, seems i got a good topic going here !!

To me what makes BFTB and its game engine better than anything else about at the moment is 2 things..1,the great AI and 2,the ability to watch everything happen and go straight in and change things,, no other wargame i have played or can think of does this. with the amount of things that can be changed.
As for my stalingrad suggestion. it doesnt have to be just the factory.there were so many battles in and around stalingrad.first of all getting in.which includes crossing the river etc.
just like the "bulge campaign there were so many small battles as we know from the game!!
and same for places like berlin budapest and the list goes on!!
in hindsight this particular game engine probably isnt right for city battles . and we certainly dont need anymore point and click games.loads of them already. but wouldnt it be great if we could possibly get a variation of this awesome game engine that did city sized battles...as i said earlier the only one that comes near is john tillers red victory..i havent played the game but have seen the screenshots.
anyway thats me throwing a few more ideas in the mix

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 17
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/25/2011 11:53:56 PM   
Agent S


Posts: 1197
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Try taking a look at good ol' Tacops.
-still a gem
and got close to what many here have talked about.


(in reply to garymiboy)
Post #: 18
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/26/2011 11:46:54 AM   
OlegHasky


Posts: 147
Joined: 9/7/2009
From: Hamburg
Status: offline 		The best Stalingrad expierience Ive encountered so far, was delivered by "Battlefront" (DB series)
The scale handed over (covering the whole City) seem to be appropriate, and diving deep enough for BTFB engine (if amended).

Surrounded by smaller scens in the sector, the "grand Stalingrad" scenario would have an instant impact on the series.

However, the drivers of the Panther locomotive seem to have only patriotic railays on their map, almost selfish mindset, and probobly music good enough in their headphones , that their are still far away from taking them off, and hearing the allaround need, even more far away from enering the theater.

This is the rare developer, that show incredible stagnation in its operations regarding their games.

Glad that Italian campagn is on the run for BFTB, althrough not even a footprint of soviet soldier in it, not a shine of the red star, but this have to be consieder as one consolation in the limited Panther world.



_____________________________

Hexamon have no use for laws! ..or governments.. We are strrrong... We obey NO ONE!...

Misarians.. Your names all meen -surrender!!...

(in reply to Agent S)
Post #: 19
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/26/2011 1:28:47 PM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4593
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe

Funny how you guys who have worked so hard to become Generals, wish to be demoted to Corporal!
Perhaps it's the pressure, perhaps you're aware of your own inadequacies, perhaps you want mum to run your life again.
So sad, so sad.


Luckily we both know you aren't taking orders from *anybody* ... except nursie

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to RayWolfe)
Post #: 20
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/26/2011 8:39:26 PM   
OlegHasky


Posts: 147
Joined: 9/7/2009
From: Hamburg
Status: offline
quote:

Wow, seems i got a good topic going here !!


Yeah, with the amazing tittle "Amazing AI !!"
How can you just not love it..

< Message edited by OlegHasky -- 2/26/2011 8:40:38 PM >

_____________________________

Hexamon have no use for laws! ..or governments.. We are strrrong... We obey NO ONE!...

Misarians.. Your names all meen -surrender!!...

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 21
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/27/2011 9:50:12 AM   
garymiboy

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: West Yorkshire
Status: offline 		Yes ive played tacops.. and although a pretty good game doesnt come anywhere near this game engine and AI.
As i said in an earlier post what makes this so good.is the ability to go in as the battle/operation is running and actually change certain things which have an immediate effect on things and could possibly change a loss into a win!!.
whereas in most other games about you have to wait until the current set of moves have finished before anything can be altered.
i havent tried battleground.so csant comment on that.but there are a few gasmes that do have stalingrad battles in them.AOTR being one. so it can be done but with a similar engine to the BOTB one. that would be some game.and i think its the game most wargamers are hoping to see

(in reply to OlegHasky)
Post #: 22
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/27/2011 9:52:09 AM   
garymiboy

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/29/2006
From: West Yorkshire
Status: offline 		oh by the way.id sell the wife to beta test it too !!

(in reply to garymiboy)
Post #: 23
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/27/2011 10:03:46 AM   
RayWolfe

 

Posts: 1544
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From: Kent in the UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe
Luckily we both know you aren't taking orders from *anybody* ... except nursie

Yep, "she who must be obeyed" still hovers over me like some medieval spectre just waiting to pounce on my smallest misdemeanour.
Cheers
Ray

(in reply to sterckxe)
Post #: 24
RE: Amazing AI !! - 2/27/2011 11:59:45 AM   
wodin


Posts: 6503
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I got a place of my own.....sometimes these things have to be done...

_____________________________

My Tactical wargame facebook page.

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My FB page, see I'm not that bad.

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(in reply to RayWolfe)
Post #: 25
RE: Amazing AI !! - 3/1/2011 11:58:03 AM   
sterckxe


Posts: 4593
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: Flanders
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RayWolfe

quote:

ORIGINAL: sterckxe
Luckily we both know you aren't taking orders from *anybody* ... except nursie

Yep, "she who must be obeyed" still hovers over me like some medieval spectre just waiting to pounce on my smallest misdemeanour.
Cheers
Ray


Be on your best behaviour this year, because I need you to get a permit to come and join us on a Normandy battlefield tour next year :)

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to RayWolfe)
Post #: 26
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