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RE: Swamp Test

 
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RE: Swamp Test - 2/16/2011 6:30:50 PM   
squatter

 

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Swamps were definitely overpowered for defence in the last patch.

Weak soviet divisions who were not dug in could hold stacks of attacking armour.

The developers found a bug where swamp was doubling defending CV. This has been changed, which is good.

The main issue remaining is mechanised movement in swamps. This should be much higher. As should heavy forrest. The poster from Sweden is on the money: these are serious wildernesses, unlike anything in Western Europe, that make the ardennes look like an English garden.

Light woods and rough hexes should represent marginal/mixed swamp and forrest. Swamp and heavy woods should be practically impassible to armoured units (perhaps other than along rr, but even then it should be slow). Its probably about right for infantry.

And the idea for extra attrition in swamp is good, and has been suggested before.


(in reply to Shellshock)
Post #: 31
RE: Swamp Test - 2/16/2011 9:03:28 PM   
heliodorus04


Posts: 1402
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: squatter


Swamps were definitely overpowered for defence in the last patch.

Weak soviet divisions who were not dug in could hold stacks of attacking armour.

The developers found a bug where swamp was doubling defending CV. This has been changed, which is good.

The main issue remaining is mechanised movement in swamps. This should be much higher. As should heavy forrest. The poster from Sweden is on the money: these are serious wildernesses, unlike anything in Western Europe, that make the ardennes look like an English garden.

Light woods and rough hexes should represent marginal/mixed swamp and forrest. Swamp and heavy woods should be practically impassible to armoured units (perhaps other than along rr, but even then it should be slow). Its probably about right for infantry.

And the idea for extra attrition in swamp is good, and has been suggested before.



In the presence of enemy ZOC, heavy woods would be a large problem. You'd be restricted to roads and small combat power could significantly impede movement speed.

However, outside of enemy ZOC, you should move fine, presumably in column formation on decent roads.

And if we're going to get all persnickety about terrain and realism, then we should be arguing for bridges across major rivers, and decreased movement costs when moving along a railroad path.

Personally I'm not ready to change swamps since the patch fixed the doubling of CV. I think perhaps many Soviet players are forgetting how limited a 50% TOE Soviet rifle division's force projection is in a 10-mile area. I play both sides, and when a Soviet rifle division with good TOE (75% plus) and average (for Soviet) morale gets a level 1 fort, it's still well more than a speed bump.

(in reply to squatter)
Post #: 32
RE: Swamp Test - 2/16/2011 10:49:41 PM   
sillyflower


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Joined: 8/4/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: squatter


The main issue remaining is mechanised movement in swamps. This should be much higher. As should heavy forrest. The poster from Sweden is on the money: these are serious wildernesses, unlike anything in Western Europe, that make the ardennes look like an English garden.



Have you ever seen an English garden? Getting through one with a tank without the owner killing you for damaging the flowers is virtually impossible. You can only do it if you say you are from Time Team ( for the non-UK reader this is a TV archaeology programme)

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Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

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(in reply to squatter)
Post #: 33
RE: Swamp Test - 2/17/2011 8:44:39 AM   
RayWolfe

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
You can only do it if you say you are from Time Team ( for the non-UK reader this is a TV archaeology programme)

... or any other program that gives you the opportunity to be on the telly!

(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 34
RE: Swamp Test - 2/18/2011 8:05:27 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22582
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

Just out of interest, has anyone ever noticed that unit's defensive CV's in swamp hexes only show a doubling of CV (like light woods), when they should be trebled (like heavy woods).It's never bothered me until now because they've always behaved more like permanent level 5 forts.Is this just cosmetic or are swamps now too easy for attackers?


I investigated this further and reported it to developer's forum - Pavel fixed it and it will be in next patch!

Please note that it was only display quirk - the data was OK internally and combat values used in actual fighting were always correct...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to timmyab)
Post #: 35
RE: Swamp Test - 2/18/2011 11:43:58 AM   
timmyab

 

Posts: 906
Joined: 12/14/2010
From: Bristol, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
I investigated this further and reported it to developer's forum - Pavel fixed it and it will be in next patch!

Please note that it was only display quirk - the data was OK internally and combat values used in actual fighting were always correct...

Leo "Apollo11"

Thanks very much!Good to know everything's working OK underneath.
Just to cement my reputation as an enormous pain in the bum, I've since realized that the same thing applies to defensive CV's in heavy woods.Rough terrain seems fine.

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 36
RE: Swamp Test - 2/18/2011 12:00:25 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 22582
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline
Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11
I investigated this further and reported it to developer's forum - Pavel fixed it and it will be in next patch!

Please note that it was only display quirk - the data was OK internally and combat values used in actual fighting were always correct...


Thanks very much!Good to know everything's working OK underneath.
Just to cement my reputation as an enormous pain in the bum, I've since realized that the same thing applies to defensive CV's in heavy woods.Rough terrain seems fine.


Yep... we know... fixed already...

quote:


On map defending CV values for units in Swamp and Heavy Forest hexes were being calculated as if their terrain fort value was +1 when in reality their terrain fort value was +2. This caused the displayed defending CV to be undervalued. This was a display bug only, and has been fixed.



Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to timmyab)
Post #: 37
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