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Very satisfying - soviet tank corps

 
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Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 6:50:45 AM   
bwheatley

 

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It feels like forever until you get them. But then finally having more then 18MP is amazing.

Then when i can go toe to toe with 11th Panzer division and force it to retreat (6 tank corps, 2 cav corps, 3 rifle divisions) it is very satisfying. I lost 80 tanks but i caused him to lose 56.

It is nice it feels like 42 is when the real fun starts with the back and forth mobile warfare.
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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 7:50:01 AM   
jomni


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I can't wait to reach that stage.
But it's March 42 in my game vs the AI and I have already elimiated 6 Germant Tank Divisions during the winter offensive.


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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 7:52:24 AM   
randallw

 

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That mean there's at least about 14 still out there....never complain there are not enough to shoot at.

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 8:27:03 AM   
Paul McNeely

 

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Unfortunately in may of 42 I am facing an assault with 8 Pz divisions and 2 motorized divisions concentrated in a 30 mile wide front.  Two examples...

2nd, 14th and 16th Pz Divisions (35K men, 358 guns , 262 tanks) vrs the 6th Tank Corps and 58th Mnt Division (which had retreated twice before this battle) (18K men, 172 guns, 162 tanks) plus 54 fighters and 27 bombers.  Soviet forces retreat.  Axis Losses: 476 men, 3 guns, 5 tanks.  Soviet Losses: 2395 men, 62 guns, 72 tanks

2nd, 9th, and 13th Pz Divisions (31K men, 317 guns, 283 tanks) vrs the 6th Tank Corps and the 58th Mnt Division (15k men, 119 guns, 102 tanks).  Soviet forces retreat.  Axis Losses: 382 men, 5 guns and 16 tanks.  Soviet Losses: 705 men, 9 guns, and 19 tanks. 

My feeling is the 72 losses represented all the light tanks initially present, and the 19 were probably 38 damaged T34 and KV1 tanks plus the 4 tanks of the Mtcl Rgt.  The core of the Corps is probably still in good shape.

Not the best beginning.  Still compared to the tank bde it is a joy to see the Corps show up.

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 8:35:46 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

That mean there's at least about 14 still out there....never complain there are not enough to shoot at.


Good to hear! So shall I crank up the difficulty from Normal to Hard or Challenging now?

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 6:23:57 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely

Unfortunately in may of 42 I am facing an assault with 8 Pz divisions and 2 motorized divisions concentrated in a 30 mile wide front.  Two examples...

2nd, 14th and 16th Pz Divisions (35K men, 358 guns , 262 tanks) vrs the 6th Tank Corps and 58th Mnt Division (which had retreated twice before this battle) (18K men, 172 guns, 162 tanks) plus 54 fighters and 27 bombers.  Soviet forces retreat.  Axis Losses: 476 men, 3 guns, 5 tanks.  Soviet Losses: 2395 men, 62 guns, 72 tanks

2nd, 9th, and 13th Pz Divisions (31K men, 317 guns, 283 tanks) vrs the 6th Tank Corps and the 58th Mnt Division (15k men, 119 guns, 102 tanks).  Soviet forces retreat.  Axis Losses: 382 men, 5 guns and 16 tanks.  Soviet Losses: 705 men, 9 guns, and 19 tanks. 

My feeling is the 72 losses represented all the light tanks initially present, and the 19 were probably 38 damaged T34 and KV1 tanks plus the 4 tanks of the Mtcl Rgt.  The core of the Corps is probably still in good shape.

Not the best beginning.  Still compared to the tank bde it is a joy to see the Corps show up.




To try and make sure my tanks were more effective. I grouped them into 5 corps in north. 5 in center and 5 in the south. Then once i have a few more guards i want to put 3 guards inf divisions with them and group them under shock armies. I the north they have been pretty good and broke through the line in a few places. Once i get a little more experience with them maybe i'll be able to pull off an encirclement.

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 6:45:36 PM   
cookie monster


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Tanks go in tank armies to get the +1 admin roll which I presume tranlsates into greater MP's.

Shock Army is nice though with the +15 Morale boost to attached units

For me however on offense my infantry make the holes and the tanks grab the territory, as in they dont fight

So I would go all Guards Corps in Shock Armies

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 6:52:03 PM   
MengJiao

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bwheatley


quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely

Unfortunately in may of 42 I am facing an assault with 8 Pz divisions and 2 motorized divisions concentrated in a 30 mile wide front.  Two examples...

2nd, 14th and 16th Pz Divisions (35K men, 358 guns , 262 tanks) vrs the 6th Tank Corps and 58th Mnt Division (which had retreated twice before this battle) (18K men, 172 guns, 162 tanks) plus 54 fighters and 27 bombers.  Soviet forces retreat.  Axis Losses: 476 men, 3 guns, 5 tanks.  Soviet Losses: 2395 men, 62 guns, 72 tanks

2nd, 9th, and 13th Pz Divisions (31K men, 317 guns, 283 tanks) vrs the 6th Tank Corps and the 58th Mnt Division (15k men, 119 guns, 102 tanks).  Soviet forces retreat.  Axis Losses: 382 men, 5 guns and 16 tanks.  Soviet Losses: 705 men, 9 guns, and 19 tanks. 

My feeling is the 72 losses represented all the light tanks initially present, and the 19 were probably 38 damaged T34 and KV1 tanks plus the 4 tanks of the Mtcl Rgt.  The core of the Corps is probably still in good shape.

Not the best beginning.  Still compared to the tank bde it is a joy to see the Corps show up.




To try and make sure my tanks were more effective. I grouped them into 5 corps in north. 5 in center and 5 in the south. Then once i have a few more guards i want to put 3 guards inf divisions with them and group them under shock armies. I the north they have been pretty good and broke through the line in a few places. Once i get a little more experience with them maybe i'll be able to pull off an encirclement.


I'm finding that its safer and more efficient to make a clumpy mass of say 7-9 tank corps, 3-4 cavalry corps with a lot of guards infantry corps and tank brigades and motorized brigades and maybe one or two mechanized corps and just chop out 7-8 hexes full of whatever odds and ends the Axis has (I'm playing the AI on normal and it often puts together pretty motley stretches of front line) in the front line. The short chop avoids logistic problems, stands up well to counterattacks and you can let the railrepair happen pretty fast there while you rebuild your tank corps. and then you can find another good spot and make another short chop.

Well...it works agains the normal AI.

Anyway, I'm not sure how many tank corps an encirclement might need.



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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 6:54:50 PM   
Zoetermeer

 

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Not quite as fun if you're playing as the Axis. Once you get to the nice weather, you really begin to realize that you're just not capable of the things you were in'41. Very depressing. This game makes you feel what the folks in the German high command were probably feeling. What can I do to win this war? I can take more territory, but what does that really get me? Can I get enough to really force a victory? Or maybe I can just focus on killing more Soviets, but the more I kill, the more they gain.

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 7:00:15 PM   
kirkgregerson

 

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Yeah, for axis the party is over in Oct 41 when mud hits. In a campaign game that is 200+ turns long, I think I'd pref to play sov as I think in WitE 1942 is like 1943 for axis as the sov are usually quite strong by 42.

So if you like offensive actions .. play sov as you'll have more than the say 17-20 turns out of 250(?) that the axis get. Of course you could always play axis against a sov AI on easy or something.

So the axis really only have 41 to enjoy themselves. Unless you like defensive maneuvers/tactics, which can be fun too.

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 7:04:30 PM   
Flaviusx


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Don't get too cocky with those 42 tank corps, guys.

They are fragile and weak to start with. Push them too hard, and the German will send them packing. They need a lot of easy wins to get their training and morale up. The 42a TOE is pretty bad, too.



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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 7:05:32 PM   
PeeDeeAitch


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Just like the actuall situation the Germans found themselves in that year. The facing down the growing Soviet strength is one of the dramas of the campaign. The change in systems from the all-out blitz of the early days to the concentrated panzer armies of the second year, seeing the balance tip - that is very interesting.

I do not think that the party is over in 1942, but it does change. If simply like playing the blitz period, then it is not as exciting - but in my opinion it should be.

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 7:06:49 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cookie monster

Tanks go in tank armies to get the +1 admin roll which I presume tranlsates into greater MP's.

Shock Army is nice though with the +15 Morale boost to attached units

For me however on offense my infantry make the holes and the tanks grab the territory, as in they dont fight

So I would go all Guards Corps in Shock Armies


Ahh i don't have a tank armys yet. Do you get any? or do i have to build them? When can i start building tank armies? When i get the ability to build tank corps?

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 7:08:56 PM   
BigAnorak


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quote:

Yeah, for axis the party is over in Oct 41 when mud hits.


The only months I am not attacking are December 1941, January 1942 and February 1942, but If I have the Kuban I'll be attacking with my mountain Corps. He who stops attacking loses.

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 7:10:05 PM   
Flaviusx


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April of 42 is when you can start building tank corps. Tank armies become available I believe in July.

I like to include 1 tank corps in shock armies, myself. (Or, alternately, a cav corps.) But otherwise, I also pack them with guards rifle corps up to the command limits.


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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 7:10:35 PM   
bwheatley

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Don't get too cocky with those 42 tank corps, guys.

They are fragile and weak to start with. Push them too hard, and the German will send them packing. They need a lot of easy wins to get their training and morale up. The 42a TOE is pretty bad, too.





I'm not too cocky but beating down an elite 11th panzer division makes me happy. :) It was very reassuring. But i do pull them all back behind the lines after combat since you said they are fragile.

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/27/2011 7:22:20 PM   
bwheatley

 

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After we hit 53 tonight we're going to bail and i'll start a GC as the axis. With the TOE change causing experience drop issue i'm sure that's not helping ara at all either. :)
Then i'll get to try to duplicate his feats. Though i doubt i'll be able to kill 4 million soviets. Though after all the talk i think i'll not worry about taking leningrad as much as taking southern cities.

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/28/2011 7:23:06 AM   
Paul McNeely

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

quote:

Yeah, for axis the party is over in Oct 41 when mud hits.


The only months I am not attacking are December 1941, January 1942 and February 1942, but If I have the Kuban I'll be attacking with my mountain Corps. He who stops attacking loses.


I assume you pick your targets very carefully, use 10:1 forces and air power up the ying yang. The AI launched several attacks in the mud on me, the net result was to produce 2 Guards Rifle and 2 Guards Cavalry divisions. The clobbering of the CV value from the mud means you pretty much have to use fire power to obliterate the unit in place. That is pretty much what was happening with the AI, she had the 2 Rifle divisions down to 39% and 42% TOE (and you can imagine what that means for their front line battalions) and the Cavalry were basically off loading men and horses continuously to replace their losses. But keeping Cavalry divisions at full strength is easy. I had replacement divisions on the way to the rifle's, and was gob smacked when they suddenly converted to Guards.

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/28/2011 9:11:27 AM   
Paul McNeely

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Don't get too cocky with those 42 tank corps, guys.

They are fragile and weak to start with. Push them too hard, and the German will send them packing. They need a lot of easy wins to get their training and morale up. The 42a TOE is pretty bad, too.




I hear you. Unfortunately I have a 30 mile breach in my lines and so well, needs drive. I would much rather have them sit around building up their experience for 6 weeks. The only good thing about the 42a TOE is when it is compared to a 42a Tank Bde TOE, it looks heavenly.

My Shock Armies are standardized at 1 Tank Corp, 1 Cavalry Corps, 1 Guards Rifle Corps (reality here is 3 Guards Rifle Divisions), 1 Regular Rifle Corps, 1 Lt. Hwz Bde, 1 PVO AA Bde, 3 Naval Rifle Bde and 3 Regular Rifle Bde. Of course being the Soviets I don't think a single Shock Army has that exact TOE.

I look at my exiting officers and make up an ersatz Tank Army since I can't make the HQ's yet. Eremenko's 51st Army for example is one 4 Guard Tank Bde, 1 Regular Tank Corps, 3 Guards Rifle Bde, 1 Cavalry Corps. When Tank Army HQs show up I'll formalize this. Other examples would be the 37th and 60th Armies each of which is tank heavy.

For the moment my tank Corps are dispersed a lot more than I like. What has really hurt me is the removal of my high experience Rifle Squad devices from the TOE of a great many Rifle Divisions. I purposely stopped fighting to let my morale translate into experience...and then the Rifle Squads vanish. I just hope Pavel finds out why this is going on and fixes it...but I'll just have to accept the hit.

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/28/2011 11:49:18 AM   
BigAnorak


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quote:

The AI launched several attacks in the mud on me


The AI generally does make poor attacks in mud, but as a human you can , as you say, be more selective. Anything better than clear terrain is probably a no go, but in the South which is mostly clear I am usually trying to get the Manpower centres like Kharkov and Stalino, which means I have to get as close as I can to unleash the Panzers in the 3 turns of snow.

You have to take the manpower out regardless of how bad the blizzard is going to be.

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RE: Very satisfying - soviet tank corps - 1/28/2011 12:48:44 PM   
Paul McNeely

 

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I would think that additionally it would be worth re-visiting your air doctrine screen and pushing up the number flying for ground support to over 100% plus use manual air strikes before any attack with say level bombers to do a job on the troops and hope your Stuka's and Me-110's can inflict serious harm in the ground support phase.

Clear terrain, lots of mass on your side and good air support would make it work as well as it is going to work.  The clobbering of the CV makes getting 2:1 hard, you basically have to exterminate the defenders to get that.

Taking urban areas pre-blizzard, as they can shelter 3 units from blizzard effects but cutting out manpower, is also a goal worth making an effort on.  If you have objectives that are close and high value I don't see why you should not use the snow turns to go for them.  I know I was hanging on by my fingernails in a few places a good shove would have done a lot of harm.  If you are playing with random weather on depending on if you get a snow turn and when you get it can also make a huge difference.

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