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Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 3:26:58 AM   
PaxMondo


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REferring to device 1161 ...

Accuracy on this gun is 25%, about 6x the accuracy of similar weapons. Just curious, yes this is a famous weapon ... but does this seem correct?

As I understand it accuracy is a combination of both to-hit and ROF.

Asking experts here as I am not.

Thanks.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 4:18:32 AM   
Herrbear


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It doesn't seem correct to me either. It looks like the range was entered by mistake and it should probably be a 4 for ROF.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 5:03:31 AM   
oldman45


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If memory serves me correctly, the 155 gun was an extremely accurate weapon. Used for counter battery fire at Corp or Division level, I don't remember which.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 7:27:08 AM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

If memory serves me correctly, the 155 gun was an extremely accurate weapon. Used for counter battery fire at Corp or Division level, I don't remember which.


Corps. Division had 155 howitzers and a couple types of 105 howitzers.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 8:04:34 AM   
d0mbo

 

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So far my experience (and I am only in '42) is that these weapons are definately accurate and they are used by Regiments as well. They eat fast transports and especially slow moving transports for breakfast, lunch and diner. Whether this is or is not accurate I leave to the crowd to be decided. I definately fear them.




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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 10:12:12 AM   
Smeulders

 

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Editor accuracy probably doesn't equal accuracy in real life. As you say, things like ROF are rolled into it as well and only Grigsby and the devs know what else, so it's rather pointless for us to be discussing it I think.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 12:04:41 PM   
m10bob


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While the "device" is a single unit, is it possible it was boosted to simulate the very often used "Time On Target" type firing this gun was used for?

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 12:10:08 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Editor accuracy probably doesn't equal accuracy in real life. As you say, things like ROF are rolled into it as well and only Grigsby and the devs know what else, so it's rather pointless for us to be discussing it I think.



Exactly why I have brought it up here ....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

It doesn't seem correct to me either. It looks like the range was entered by mistake and it should probably be a 4 for ROF.



My concern. It does look like an oops. Accuracy might want to be 6 - 8 ... that would be double what most other guns are in the game ...

And I too have found these to be REALLY deadly. To me beyond what they really were.


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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 12:56:49 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: d0mbo

So far my experience (and I am only in '42) is that these weapons are definately accurate and they are used by Regiments as well. They eat fast transports and especially slow moving transports for breakfast, lunch and diner. Whether this is or is not accurate I leave to the crowd to be decided. I definately fear them.



The 155mm Gun was the Army's chosen weapon for Coast Defense..., which might have something to do with the numbers. When used in this role, the units had specially designed mobile mountings, radar fire direction, and naval-style fire control. And they were quite effective. Most Army artillery (on both sides) used in this fashion was simply regular artillery which happened to be on the coast..., but the "Long Toms" could actually function as honest-to-God Coast Artillery.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 1:11:12 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


The 155mm Gun was the Army's chosen weapon for Coast Defense..., which might have something to do with the numbers. When used in this role, the units had specially designed mobile mountings, radar fire direction, and naval-style fire control.

Now that would explain things ... I wonder if accuracy comes into play for ground combat? Maybe not, and thus allows the devs to use it for CD only.

Interesting.

I've posted a link to this in the ground thread as well. Maybe Andy will comment.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 3:41:30 PM   
Ranger5355

 

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Was the Long Tom an adaptation of a naval gun?

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 3:51:45 PM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ranger5355

Was the Long Tom an adaptation of a naval gun?


It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 4:14:45 PM   
Gilbert


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quote:

It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.


This gun was the 155mm GPF (Grande Puissance Filloux). More details here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_155mm_GPF

Gilbert

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 10:38:18 PM   
Ranger5355

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gilbert

quote:

It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.


This gun was the 155mm GPF (Grande Puissance Filloux). More details here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_155mm_GPF

Gilbert

Interesting, thanks!

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 7:26:47 AM   
stuman


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Interesting. I love arcane stuff like this

< Message edited by stuman -- 1/28/2011 11:28:25 AM >


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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 7:55:09 AM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

Interesting. I love acane stuff like this


The spelling came through garbled. Do you mean arcane or inane?

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 10:52:03 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gilbert

quote:

It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.


This gun was the 155mm GPF (Grande Puissance Filloux). More details here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_155mm_GPF

Gilbert

The gun was deadly accurate at around 2000 yards... the USAA used them on the Siegfried Line where they would park a gun a 2000 yards and pick off concrete bunkers with a single shot. They are also employed in attacking one German city in a similar fashion (??Aachen), and were used with such effectiveness that the German commander protested and demanded that they be made illegal as a weapon of war... the US commanders just laughed at him.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 11:28:08 AM   
stuman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

Interesting. I love acane stuff like this


The spelling came through garbled. Do you mean arcane or inane?


Ha, well I meant arcane, but inane may apply as well

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 12:32:23 PM   
USS America


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gilbert

quote:

It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.


This gun was the 155mm GPF (Grande Puissance Filloux). More details here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_155mm_GPF

Gilbert

The gun was deadly accurate at around 2000 yards... the USAA used them on the Siegfried Line where they would park a gun a 2000 yards and pick off concrete bunkers with a single shot. They are also employed in attacking one German city in a similar fashion (??Aachen), and were used with such effectiveness that the German commander protested and demanded that they be made illegal as a weapon of war... the US commanders just laughed at him.


He cried that using it in that fashion was gamey!

THAT is a good weapon!

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 12:45:35 PM   
wdolson

 

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If you want a really big gun, try this one: http://www.vincelewis.net/dora.html

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 12:54:31 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

If you want a really big gun, try this one: http://www.vincelewis.net/dora.html



Big yes..., but a touch light on the Mobility Factor...

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 1:32:30 PM   
bjmorgan


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Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 4:28:05 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?




I'll put my money on the 8" Howitzer.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 4:40:46 PM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?



At what range?

AIR the 8" howitzer at comparable ranges.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 5:24:13 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?

Aw, c'mon dude, it's all CEP for a tube, and I know they taught that stuff to FOs. All depends on the tube design, the charge increment and how good the Met pukes were at HQ Bty. M113 could really reach out and touch someone The M115 just wasn't in it. Just take a peek at the CEP tables at base charge. Not that accuracy means anything, when a smaller CEP and smaller boom is equated to a bigger CEP and bigger boom. Just reach back and remember the stuff they taught you at Ft Sill, or if you didn't get to Sill, what the Yankee fools at Devins were trying to teach (if they could ever find their butts with their left hands).

M113, hands down.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 7:01:25 PM   
herwin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?

Aw, c'mon dude, it's all CEP for a tube, and I know they taught that stuff to FOs. All depends on the tube design, the charge increment and how good the Met pukes were at HQ Bty. M113 could really reach out and touch someone The M115 just wasn't in it. Just take a peek at the CEP tables at base charge. Not that accuracy means anything, when a smaller CEP and smaller boom is equated to a bigger CEP and bigger boom. Just reach back and remember the stuff they taught you at Ft Sill, or if you didn't get to Sill, what the Yankee fools at Devins were trying to teach (if they could ever find their butts with their left hands).

M113, hands down.


Weren't the M107 and M110 about the same?

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/29/2011 1:36:29 AM   
Fallschirmjager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gilbert

quote:

It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.


This gun was the 155mm GPF (Grande Puissance Filloux). More details here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_155mm_GPF

Gilbert


Ask my opponent DivePac88 about these guns in the PI

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/29/2011 1:39:44 AM   
Fallschirmjager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?



I have read that when the war in Italy slowed down to a snail like pace that the Allies used the 8" gun as a 'sniper' piece being able to pick off single buildings and strong points in just a handful of shots.

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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/31/2011 3:48:00 AM   
Blackhorse


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There are a slew of US 155mm-equipped units in AE, but only a few should be using the Long Toms.

Most Army and Marine Divisions and separate artillery battalions have (or eventually get) the (device 1160) M1 Howitzer. Late war reinforcements from the ETO bring the (1167) M12 GMC, the self-propelled version of the M1 Howitzer. These 155's have an accuracy of '4'.

The US Army Coastal Artillery bns/rgts and the Marine defense battalions have (or upgrade to) the M1918 GPF and its modernized succesor, the M1A1 GPF. These are 155mm guns, not howitzers, on the rotating "Panama Mounts" that Mike Scholl mentioned that makes them effective versus ships. Their accuracy is 50 and 53 respectively.

IIRC, the only Long Tom-equipped (device 1161) units in the game should be about half of the dozen or so independent Marine artillery battalions. (The other half have 155mm howitzers). They each have only 12 tubes. These are the same M1A1 guns that the coastal defense battalions have, but we assume that the battalions are not as rigorously trained in engaging ships as are the defense battalions, and/or that not all of the guns have Panama Mounts and the associated tracking equipment, so the accuracy has been reduced to '25'. The primary role of the Long Tom battalions was to serve as Corps-artillery equivalent support for Marine grunts. But they were expected to be able to engage ships, as well.

Is your concern solely with the effect the Long Tom units are having during land combat, or is it bombardment effect of the other 155mm gun LCUs (like the Coastal Artillery regiments)?



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RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/31/2011 4:26:28 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


...Is your concern solely with the effect the Long Tom units are having during land combat, or is it bombardment effect of the other 155mm gun LCUs (like the Coastal Artillery regiments)?



Initially I was on the receiving end of Long Tom barrage, went into the db to see how/why I got my butt kicked.

Noted the range and accuracy of the device were the same (25), and that the accuracy was substantually higher than similar pieces. Wasn't sure if this was WAD or a typo.

Thanks for stepping in and clarifying.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 1/31/2011 4:27:32 AM >


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