Matrix Games Forums

Command Ops gets a Massive Update!Lost Battles AAR: Smolensk 41War in the East: Lost Battles is here!Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! Let's Play videoLost Battles Scenario Manual excerpts available!A sneak peek from Allied Corps!Harpoon 3 ANWs Free Ultimate Update!All good Deals always come in threesDistant Worlds: Shadows Approaches!Lost Battles AAR: Moscow 41		 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Long Tom Accuracy

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Long Tom Accuracy Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 3:26:58 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 4426
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		REferring to device 1161 ...

Accuracy on this gun is 25%, about 6x the accuracy of similar weapons. Just curious, yes this is a famous weapon ... but does this seem correct?

As I understand it accuracy is a combination of both to-hit and ROF.

Asking experts here as I am not.

Thanks.

_____________________________

Pax
Post #: 1
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 4:18:32 AM   
Herrbear


Posts: 843
Joined: 7/26/2004
From: Glendora, CA
Status: offline 		It doesn't seem correct to me either. It looks like the range was entered by mistake and it should probably be a 4 for ROF.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 2
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 5:03:31 AM   
oldman45


Posts: 2024
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		If memory serves me correctly, the 155 gun was an extremely accurate weapon. Used for counter battery fire at Corp or Division level, I don't remember which.

_____________________________


(in reply to Herrbear)
Post #: 3
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 7:27:08 AM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6057
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

If memory serves me correctly, the 155 gun was an extremely accurate weapon. Used for counter battery fire at Corp or Division level, I don't remember which.


Corps. Division had 155 howitzers and a couple types of 105 howitzers.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to oldman45)
Post #: 4
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 8:04:34 AM   
d0mbo

 

Posts: 569
Joined: 8/21/2009
From: Holland
Status: offline 		So far my experience (and I am only in '42) is that these weapons are definately accurate and they are used by Regiments as well. They eat fast transports and especially slow moving transports for breakfast, lunch and diner. Whether this is or is not accurate I leave to the crowd to be decided. I definately fear them.




(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 5
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 10:12:12 AM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1871
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline 		Editor accuracy probably doesn't equal accuracy in real life. As you say, things like ROF are rolled into it as well and only Grigsby and the devs know what else, so it's rather pointless for us to be discussing it I think.

(in reply to d0mbo)
Post #: 6
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 12:04:41 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 7117
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		While the "device" is a single unit, is it possible it was boosted to simulate the very often used "Time On Target" type firing this gun was used for?

_____________________________




(in reply to Smeulders)
Post #: 7
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 12:10:08 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 4426
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Editor accuracy probably doesn't equal accuracy in real life. As you say, things like ROF are rolled into it as well and only Grigsby and the devs know what else, so it's rather pointless for us to be discussing it I think.



Exactly why I have brought it up here ....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Herrbear

It doesn't seem correct to me either. It looks like the range was entered by mistake and it should probably be a 4 for ROF.



My concern. It does look like an oops. Accuracy might want to be 6 - 8 ... that would be double what most other guns are in the game ...

And I too have found these to be REALLY deadly. To me beyond what they really were.


_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Smeulders)
Post #: 8
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 12:56:49 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

Posts: 1173
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: d0mbo

So far my experience (and I am only in '42) is that these weapons are definately accurate and they are used by Regiments as well. They eat fast transports and especially slow moving transports for breakfast, lunch and diner. Whether this is or is not accurate I leave to the crowd to be decided. I definately fear them.



The 155mm Gun was the Army's chosen weapon for Coast Defense..., which might have something to do with the numbers. When used in this role, the units had specially designed mobile mountings, radar fire direction, and naval-style fire control. And they were quite effective. Most Army artillery (on both sides) used in this fashion was simply regular artillery which happened to be on the coast..., but the "Long Toms" could actually function as honest-to-God Coast Artillery.

(in reply to d0mbo)
Post #: 9
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 1:11:12 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 4426
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


The 155mm Gun was the Army's chosen weapon for Coast Defense..., which might have something to do with the numbers. When used in this role, the units had specially designed mobile mountings, radar fire direction, and naval-style fire control.

Now that would explain things ... I wonder if accuracy comes into play for ground combat? Maybe not, and thus allows the devs to use it for CD only.

Interesting.

I've posted a link to this in the ground thread as well. Maybe Andy will comment.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to mike scholl 1)
Post #: 10
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 3:41:30 PM   
Ranger5355

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		Was the Long Tom an adaptation of a naval gun?

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 11
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 3:51:45 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6057
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ranger5355

Was the Long Tom an adaptation of a naval gun?


It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Ranger5355)
Post #: 12
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 4:14:45 PM   
Gilbert


Posts: 232
Joined: 8/8/2009
From: Hendaye, France
Status: offline
quote:

It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.


This gun was the 155mm GPF (Grande Puissance Filloux). More details here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_155mm_GPF

Gilbert

_____________________________

UMI YUKABA
"If I go away to sea, I shall return a corpse awash, if duty calls me to the mountain, a verdant will be my pall, thus for the sake of the Emperor, I will not die peacefully at home...."

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 13
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/27/2011 10:38:18 PM   
Ranger5355

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 9/12/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gilbert

quote:

It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.


This gun was the 155mm GPF (Grande Puissance Filloux). More details here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_155mm_GPF

Gilbert

Interesting, thanks!

(in reply to Gilbert)
Post #: 14
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 7:26:47 AM   
stuman


Posts: 3852
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline 		Interesting. I love arcane stuff like this

< Message edited by stuman -- 1/28/2011 11:28:25 AM >

_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley


(in reply to Ranger5355)
Post #: 15
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 7:55:09 AM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6057
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

Interesting. I love acane stuff like this


The spelling came through garbled. Do you mean arcane or inane?

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to stuman)
Post #: 16
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 10:52:03 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22515
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gilbert

quote:

It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.


This gun was the 155mm GPF (Grande Puissance Filloux). More details here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_155mm_GPF

Gilbert

The gun was deadly accurate at around 2000 yards... the USAA used them on the Siegfried Line where they would park a gun a 2000 yards and pick off concrete bunkers with a single shot. They are also employed in attacking one German city in a similar fashion (??Aachen), and were used with such effectiveness that the German commander protested and demanded that they be made illegal as a weapon of war... the US commanders just laughed at him.

(in reply to Gilbert)
Post #: 17
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 11:28:08 AM   
stuman


Posts: 3852
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: stuman

Interesting. I love acane stuff like this


The spelling came through garbled. Do you mean arcane or inane?


Ha, well I meant arcane, but inane may apply as well

_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley


(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 18
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 12:32:23 PM   
USS America


Posts: 15070
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gilbert

quote:

It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.


This gun was the 155mm GPF (Grande Puissance Filloux). More details here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_155mm_GPF

Gilbert

The gun was deadly accurate at around 2000 yards... the USAA used them on the Siegfried Line where they would park a gun a 2000 yards and pick off concrete bunkers with a single shot. They are also employed in attacking one German city in a similar fashion (??Aachen), and were used with such effectiveness that the German commander protested and demanded that they be made illegal as a weapon of war... the US commanders just laughed at him.


He cried that using it in that fashion was gamey!

THAT is a good weapon!

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 19
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 12:45:35 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 7032
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		If you want a really big gun, try this one: http://www.vincelewis.net/dora.html

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to USS America)
Post #: 20
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 12:54:31 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

Posts: 1173
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

If you want a really big gun, try this one: http://www.vincelewis.net/dora.html



Big yes..., but a touch light on the Mobility Factor...

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 21
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 1:32:30 PM   
bjmorgan


Posts: 2904
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline 		Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?

(in reply to mike scholl 1)
Post #: 22
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 4:28:05 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

Posts: 1173
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?




I'll put my money on the 8" Howitzer.

(in reply to bjmorgan)
Post #: 23
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 4:40:46 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6057
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?



At what range?

AIR the 8" howitzer at comparable ranges.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to bjmorgan)
Post #: 24
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 5:24:13 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6576
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?

Aw, c'mon dude, it's all CEP for a tube, and I know they taught that stuff to FOs. All depends on the tube design, the charge increment and how good the Met pukes were at HQ Bty. M113 could really reach out and touch someone The M115 just wasn't in it. Just take a peek at the CEP tables at base charge. Not that accuracy means anything, when a smaller CEP and smaller boom is equated to a bigger CEP and bigger boom. Just reach back and remember the stuff they taught you at Ft Sill, or if you didn't get to Sill, what the Yankee fools at Devins were trying to teach (if they could ever find their butts with their left hands).

M113, hands down.

(in reply to bjmorgan)
Post #: 25
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/28/2011 7:01:25 PM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6057
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE


quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?

Aw, c'mon dude, it's all CEP for a tube, and I know they taught that stuff to FOs. All depends on the tube design, the charge increment and how good the Met pukes were at HQ Bty. M113 could really reach out and touch someone The M115 just wasn't in it. Just take a peek at the CEP tables at base charge. Not that accuracy means anything, when a smaller CEP and smaller boom is equated to a bigger CEP and bigger boom. Just reach back and remember the stuff they taught you at Ft Sill, or if you didn't get to Sill, what the Yankee fools at Devins were trying to teach (if they could ever find their butts with their left hands).

M113, hands down.


Weren't the M107 and M110 about the same?

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 26
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/29/2011 1:36:29 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6302
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gilbert

quote:

It descended from a heavy gun used in the French Army.


This gun was the 155mm GPF (Grande Puissance Filloux). More details here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_de_155mm_GPF

Gilbert


Ask my opponent DivePac88 about these guns in the PI

(in reply to Gilbert)
Post #: 27
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/29/2011 1:39:44 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6302
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Speaking of accuracy, as a one time Vietnam Era artillery forward observer I posit this question, which was more accurate, the 8" howitzer (towed or SP, no difference) or the 175MM gun?



I have read that when the war in Italy slowed down to a snail like pace that the Allies used the 8" gun as a 'sniper' piece being able to pick off single buildings and strong points in just a handful of shots.

(in reply to bjmorgan)
Post #: 28
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/31/2011 3:48:00 AM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1923
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline
There are a slew of US 155mm-equipped units in AE, but only a few should be using the Long Toms.

Most Army and Marine Divisions and separate artillery battalions have (or eventually get) the (device 1160) M1 Howitzer. Late war reinforcements from the ETO bring the (1167) M12 GMC, the self-propelled version of the M1 Howitzer. These 155's have an accuracy of '4'.

The US Army Coastal Artillery bns/rgts and the Marine defense battalions have (or upgrade to) the M1918 GPF and its modernized succesor, the M1A1 GPF. These are 155mm guns, not howitzers, on the rotating "Panama Mounts" that Mike Scholl mentioned that makes them effective versus ships. Their accuracy is 50 and 53 respectively.

IIRC, the only Long Tom-equipped (device 1161) units in the game should be about half of the dozen or so independent Marine artillery battalions. (The other half have 155mm howitzers). They each have only 12 tubes. These are the same M1A1 guns that the coastal defense battalions have, but we assume that the battalions are not as rigorously trained in engaging ships as are the defense battalions, and/or that not all of the guns have Panama Mounts and the associated tracking equipment, so the accuracy has been reduced to '25'. The primary role of the Long Tom battalions was to serve as Corps-artillery equivalent support for Marine grunts. But they were expected to be able to engage ships, as well.

Is your concern solely with the effect the Long Tom units are having during land combat, or is it bombardment effect of the other 155mm gun LCUs (like the Coastal Artillery regiments)?



_____________________________

WitP-AE -- US LCU & AI Stuff

Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 29
RE: Long Tom Accuracy - 1/31/2011 4:26:28 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 4426
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse


...Is your concern solely with the effect the Long Tom units are having during land combat, or is it bombardment effect of the other 155mm gun LCUs (like the Coastal Artillery regiments)?



Initially I was on the receiving end of Long Tom barrage, went into the db to see how/why I got my butt kicked.

Noted the range and accuracy of the device were the same (25), and that the accuracy was substantually higher than similar pieces. Wasn't sure if this was WAD or a typo.

Thanks for stepping in and clarifying.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 1/31/2011 4:27:32 AM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Long Tom Accuracy Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.947