Time of fury?

From the front lines in France and Russia to the deserts of North Africa and the airfields and convoys of Britain, the campaigns of World War II are yours to command in WW2: Time of Wrath! This turn-based grand strategy title, the highly improved and expanded sequel to WW2: Road to Victory, puts the player in charge of the political, economic and military decisions of one or more Axis or Allied nations, including minor nations.
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borsook79
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Time of fury?

Post by borsook79 »

I've just had a look at Time of Fury. It does look like a sequel to Time of Wrath, so I'd like to ask some questions.

What improvements can we expect to the problematic areas of ToW? Will this time AI handle properly all the features of the game? (i.e. problems with unloading troops and generally naval aspect). And in general how improved will the AI be? Will the units still be built instantly? and of course any and all comparisons that you could provide between the two games would be great.
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by Titan »

Looks very similar, and thats not a bad thing.
One thing i would like to know is it going to be different enough where as a patch couldnt get TOW to that stage, i like the game but it could be alot better with a few tweaks, and upgrade the interface which feeling clunky
This is of a thread on there forums.

Among many, many improvements and changes, let me tell you about two of them:
Changed naval system, which means that naval units has been moved on the main map, also there is a possibility to give them orders during the naval battle, which may, change the course of The Battle for Atlantic. Also the number of sea zones is somewhere around 200, so the war on see needs now much more planning.
Country specific settings, which rockets the game into completely new area of experience, now every country has been much more customized, for example, German tanks are faster and a little bit stronger than others, this allows to represents Blitzkrieg doctrine, Soviet infantry is much cheaper than others, which allows to recreate Human Wave doctrine. If we go even deeper into the details, German supply system is not so effective as average, and US is much more effective, cost of units can be different for different countries as some of them specialized in various types of weapons, also some units are trying to represent this specialization by increasing their strength, as early Polish motorized units that are representing cavalry, which has been very well developed in Poland
.
Anraz
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by Anraz »

Words quoted in green give a good preview. In short what was good was improved and what wasn’t was changed as usual happens during development of a new game. More info will come thanks to devdiary and other press materials.
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von altair
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by von altair »

So they just make new games and loot the money, instead of bugfixing Time of Wrath. The game has several gamebreaking issues and they
dont bother to fix them.
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by Anraz »

Didn’t we make several patches for ToW during teen months after release of the game? I know that some people will always want more. Please notice that in some patches we even changed part of gamplay what is far beyond typical patching policy. Not mentioning that all people who bought Road to Victory were given with ToW for free. Indeed we are very greedy people...
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by doomtrader »

von Altair, I have already wrote couple of times that we are going to bugfix Time of Wrath, and the next patch should be released in mid March.
If you could lead me to the thread that describes gamebraking issues in your opinion, this will be very handy.
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by borsook79 »

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

von Altair, I have already wrote couple of times that we are going to bugfix Time of Wrath, and the next patch should be released in mid March.
If you could lead me to the thread that describes gamebraking issues in your opinion, this will be very handy.
Just a quick answer - raiders not firing back - it basically destroys the battle for the Mediterranean as AI creates a lot of raider fleets that are basically just sitting ducks.

There are other things worth improving (AI and naval transporting of units) but I'd say this is the only gamebreaking problem.
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by borsook79 »

ORIGINAL: von altair

So they just make new games and loot the money, instead of bugfixing Time of Wrath. The game has several gamebreaking issues and they
dont bother to fix them.
Come on, they do have to earn money... other companies tend to do it via expansions, here its a new version, but the idea is similar. But contrary to other companies here the devs actually do listen. I bought 1.0 of ToW and the changes done in the patches are tremendous, and most of them were actually suggestions done by us, players.
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by doomtrader »

Raiders were hunters against convoys, but a prey when they meet real fleet, so that they can not fire back is a design decision, please imagine this battle against raiders as a hunt of couple of destroyers after lonely submarine. If you really really would like that riders will fire back, then we can probably make this as an option, but why raiders should get a spotting bonus against convoys then?


If you think that AI is using raiders too much in Mediterranean, we can tune it down.
Thats not a problem.
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by Wolfe1759 »

ORIGINAL: Titan

Among many, many improvements and changes, let me tell you about two of them:
Changed naval system, which means that naval units has been moved on the main map, also there is a possibility to give them orders during the naval battle, which may, change the course of The Battle for Atlantic. Also the number of sea zones is somewhere around 200, so the war on see needs now much more planning.
Country specific settings, which rockets the game into completely new area of experience, now every country has been much more customized, for example, German tanks are faster and a little bit stronger than others, this allows to represents Blitzkrieg doctrine, Soviet infantry is much cheaper than others, which allows to recreate Human Wave doctrine. If we go even deeper into the details, German supply system is not so effective as average, and US is much more effective, cost of units can be different for different countries as some of them specialized in various types of weapons, also some units are trying to represent this specialization by increasing their strength, as early Polish motorized units that are representing cavalry, which has been very well developed in Poland
.

I own both ToW and SotP and am very much on the fence as to whether I'm at all likely to be interested in ToF so far probably erring to not interested side of the fence.

The above features are if accurate probably pushing me more solidly to the not interested side.

200 sea zones - the Sea War / War of the Atlantic / Wolfpacks were a key part of the ETO but 200 sea zones seems overkill

Fast German tanks, Soviet human wave attacks, specialising in different weapons - in a grand strategy level game ??

Polish motorized units representing cavalry - why not just have a cavalry unit ?


Lets just stick to improving ToW, the modders have done a great job on the graphical side (the screen shots of ToF, particularly the North Africa one are downright ugly in comparison)- unfortunately the probable focus on the new game and then I suspect Bitter Glory may mean that ToW will now be the beta for ToF.

I hope I'm wrong.
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by borsook79 »

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

Raiders were hunters against convoys, but a prey when they meet real fleet, so that they can not fire back is a design decision, please imagine this battle against raiders as a hunt of couple of destroyers after lonely submarine. If you really really would like that riders will fire back, then we can probably make this as an option, but why raiders should get a spotting bonus against convoys then?


If you think that AI is using raiders too much in Mediterranean, we can tune it down.
Thats not a problem.
It makes sense with submarines, but AI uses all kinds of ships as raiders. Currently you can meet 4 battleships with one of your and they will not fire back... this is illogical, seems that in RL they would. :) Maybe we should have a division between surface raiders (which fire back) and submarines (which do not). As for spotting bonus - to offset that raiders could get a penalty to their combat abilities. That said even with this change introduced I believe AI does use too much raiders.
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by borsook79 »

ORIGINAL: Wolfe

ORIGINAL: Titan

Among many, many improvements and changes, let me tell you about two of them:
Changed naval system, which means that naval units has been moved on the main map, also there is a possibility to give them orders during the naval battle, which may, change the course of The Battle for Atlantic. Also the number of sea zones is somewhere around 200, so the war on see needs now much more planning.
Country specific settings, which rockets the game into completely new area of experience, now every country has been much more customized, for example, German tanks are faster and a little bit stronger than others, this allows to represents Blitzkrieg doctrine, Soviet infantry is much cheaper than others, which allows to recreate Human Wave doctrine. If we go even deeper into the details, German supply system is not so effective as average, and US is much more effective, cost of units can be different for different countries as some of them specialized in various types of weapons, also some units are trying to represent this specialization by increasing their strength, as early Polish motorized units that are representing cavalry, which has been very well developed in Poland
.

I own both ToW and SotP and am very much on the fence as to whether I'm at all likely to be interested in ToF so far probably erring to not interested side of the fence.

The above features are if accurate probably pushing me more solidly to the not interested side.

200 sea zones - the Sea War / War of the Atlantic / Wolfpacks were a key part of the ETO but 200 sea zones seems overkill

Fast German tanks, Soviet human wave attacks, specialising in different weapons - in a grand strategy level game ??

Polish motorized units representing cavalry - why not just have a cavalry unit ?


Lets just stick to improving ToW, the modders have done a great job on the graphical side (the screen shots of ToF, particularly the North Africa one are downright ugly in comparison)- unfortunately the probable focus on the new game and then I suspect Bitter Glory may mean that ToW will now be the beta for ToF.

I hope I'm wrong.
Cavalry units were being changed into motorised units, while some armies (e.g. Russians and Italians) did retain them as separate path, mostly they can be considered as lvl1 of motorised.

I'm all for differences between national armies. While it is grand strategy, the armies did use different equipment, chains of command and tactics, so their divisions should perform differently... not sure though if a speed boost is what Germany should get...

Is there some sort of beta for ToF? And what about publishers? Are there any chances of the new game coming to Steam?
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by Anraz »

Beta testers for Time of Fury are currently being recruited at Slitherine’s main site at the following link: http://slitherine.com/beta_test/time_of_fury
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by doomtrader »

not sure though if a speed boost is what Germany should get...
This bonus has not been implemented to represent the horse power of the tanks, it is added into the game, to show that German Blitzkrieg tactic was supreme against other, which has been proved in Polish, French and early Russian campaigns.
Cavalry units were being changed into motorised units, while some armies (e.g. Russians and Italians) did retain them as separate path, mostly they can be considered as lvl1 of motorised.
This is exactly or point of view
Fast German tanks, Soviet human wave attacks, specializing in different weapons - in a grand strategy level game ??
I think that you are looking from a different perspective. Those specializations are implemented to represent tactics used by different countries. In case of German tanks, we just add them one more Action Point. Not too much for the first look, but it really can help to make the final push.
Soviet human waves, was not a tactic, it was general strategy of the Red Army, they were sending more and more soldiers to the front lines keeping NKVD units in the back. Take a look at the Soviet losses during the siege of Berlin and compare them with the losses of western Allies during the whole European campaign, so you will clearly see that the Russians didn't bother about human lives.
may mean that ToW will now be the beta for ToF.
I think this is not a fair description. ToW was improved a lot after the initial release of the game. Please take a look into the readme file and you will see that except fixes there are many new entries about game improvements.



We are also going to implement a couple of skins for both units and map, so you can probably choose something that will fit your taste :-)
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by borsook79 »

To sum up serious issues in ToW:

"Tobruk trap." It does not occur all the time, but does happen quite often. If AI has a port with all the surrounding hexes controlled by the enemy (even though they are empty), AI will not be able to unload transports at this port (while just moving the garrison would allow the to control the hexes around and unload). Instead AI will send transport after transport to this port, with those troops just sitting there on ships (I have seen Italian AI waste 30+ divisions in this way)
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by rjh1971 »

ORIGINAL: Anraz

Beta testers for Time of Fury are currently being recruited at Slitherine’s main site at the following link: http://slitherine.com/beta_test/time_of_fury
Just signed in for beta testing. Will I be getting a mail from Slitherine if they choose me?

Thanks
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by doomtrader »

rjh1971, You will receive an e-mail from Slitherine if they will choose you. Please be aware that the invitations are going to be split to couple of turns.


Borsook, thanks for the info.
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by rjh1971 »

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

rjh1971, You will receive an e-mail from Slitherine if they will choose you. Please be aware that the invitations are going to be split to couple of turns.

...
Thanks Leszek
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by sheridangreen »

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

Raiders were hunters against convoys, but a prey when they meet real fleet, so that they can not fire back is a design decision, please imagine this battle against raiders as a hunt of couple of destroyers after lonely submarine. If you really really would like that riders will fire back, then we can probably make this as an option, but why raiders should get a spotting bonus against convoys then?

Raiders should fight back, but by themselves. So a large british task force made up of BBs and CVs would get more shots per turn than a single german battleship. The german battleship might get a few hits in, but the british task group will eventually overwhelm the german with firepower and sink them. Think of the british engaging the Bismark. The Bismark fired back o nits pursuers several times (and even sank one of them), the Bismark was eventually overwhelmed with carrier aircraft and other british ships.

Same with subs. The sub set on 'raider' would get 1 shot per turn, but a group of 6 patrol ships set on 'regular' would get one shot each per turn, and would probably sink the sub.

So the choice to go with 'raider' would be "I get more chances to sink convoys, but if I am caught, I fight alone and probably lose." At least give them a chance to shoot back and cause some damage before they go.
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RE: Time of fury?

Post by doomtrader »

Of course I understand your point sheridangreen, however we think that for the gameplay it would be better to not allow raiders to shoot back.
Of course I think me might give a possibility to made this possible as an option.
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