Matrix Games Forums

Recruiting Testers for Commander: the Great War on Mac!Armageddon invasion starts in 2014Command Rommels Panzers in Battle Academy!Servers UpdateThe Deal goes Fourth!Command Ops gets a Massive Update!Lost Battles AAR: Smolensk 41War in the East: Lost Battles is here!Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! Let's Play videoLost Battles Scenario Manual excerpts available!		 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Partisan Supply?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Partisan Supply? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Partisan Supply? - 1/24/2011 11:50:56 AM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline 		I'm about turn 10 in a GC vs the AI, and just realized that I need to activate "night missions" for partisan supply. A couple of questions:

1) Why aren't some air units activated for night missions by default?

2) What is the disadvantage of turning on night missions for bomber units? Why not allow all of my air units conduct night missions?

3) At what point do I hit diminishing returns with air units activated for night missions? Is is a case of the more night missions, the more partisan supply, the more partisans? Or would partisan activity max out at some point regardless of how many night supply missions the computer runs?

Sorry if answers to these questions are in the manual, but pages that I read concerning partisan supply were rather vague...

Post #: 1
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/24/2011 12:13:40 PM   
Paul McNeely

 

Posts: 607
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline 		1.  The only air units that would make sense for are you LTAPs filled with U2(trans) and since you have to in the commanders report click the M to A on them when they show up you can click the N to Y and then they are set to go.  The only unit set to night mission by default are your NBAP's.

2.  In general you will take high losses sending in bombers to perform resupply missions at night, I'd suggest only doing so in extreme emergency cases.  The losses to transport planes can be as high as 25% so it is not something you want to do very often with your bombers.

3.  The planes must be able to reach the partisans, and currently I have around 12-14 LTAPs conducting night resupply and the number of partisan units has been fairly constant.  Night resupply missions are good though since it means that your partisan units have NKVD squads, are rifle squads, have MG, Mortars, etc.  As you get the LTAP units for essentially free, and your production rate of U2(trans) is high you might as well use them.

I am going to switch over my TB-3G-2's to night missions as they have a longer range hopefully the partisans deeper behind the lines will benefit from this.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 2
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/25/2011 12:35:06 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2518
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Only transport units assigned to VVS will automatically do night supply missions to partisans during the logistics phase.
I'm not even sure if bombers set to night mode in VVS will send supplies. That's because I haven't tried.
U2(trans) have short range, they won't do any good. Upgrade your some transports to Li-2 and TB-3G-2 and set them to night.
All my transport units are set to nigth mode as I do all manual supply drops at night as well.

(in reply to Paul McNeely)
Post #: 3
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/25/2011 1:41:31 AM   
cookie monster


Posts: 1695
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
Status: offline 		Soviet partisan units are supplied through night air transport missions conducted automatically
by the computer during the Soviet logistics phase. The computer will first utilize transport and
level bomber air group units set to night missions and attached to VVS type air base units
(8.2.1). If those night mission enabled air group units attached to VVS air base units are not
sufficient to meet the partisan needs, then transport and level bomber air group units set to
night missions and attached to DBAD, AD DD, GAD DD, and GDBAD air base units may be
selected by the computer to also transport supplies to partisan units. In addition to supplies,
these missions will also air drop light weapons and NKVD squads to partisan units. NKVD
squads are important for raising the morale of the partisan unit and for helping the partisan
unit recruit additional partisan squads (recruits may come from the partisan unit’s hex and any
adjacent hex that is not adjacent to an Axis combat unit).


Game Play Tip: Air supply to partisans may be automatic, but the Soviet
player still needs to ensure that the right aircraft are in the right place to
get those supplies delivered behind enemy lines. Make sure you place long
range transports and level bombers in VVS air base units that are placed
near the front lines so they have the range to resupply partisan locations.
You may need to do this periodically so as not to become a target for Axis
bomb airfield missions. Shorter range transport air group units such as
U-2s can also do this if placed close enough to the front, but won’t be able
to reach deep behind enemy lines. Don’t forget to set the desired air group
units to conduct night missions!

(in reply to jomni)
Post #: 4
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/25/2011 12:32:33 PM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone for the responses (and I'd seen that quote from the manual), but I am still rather confused:

1) So how do I even know if partisan supply missions are being conducted--is it logged somewhere?

2) I don't understand how close these various units have to be to be able to conduct drops to the partisans--how deep can they go?

3) Do we really need this level of micromanagement just for partisans to appear? I've got to distinguish between six different types of airbases (VVS, DBAD, AD DD, GAD DD, and GDBAD), turn on night missions, guess what the range is, etc. And how do I do manual drops? I've tried to shift-right click, but nothing happened, maybe I didn't have the right kind of airbase in range, with night missions, etc. Very possible that I'm missing something, but until now I've basically ignored the air war, and I find this level of detail rather tedious to deal with, especially if the effort put into partisan supply does not make a dramatic difference in partisan activity...

Just give me my partisans!

(in reply to cookie monster)
Post #: 5
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/25/2011 12:48:14 PM   
cookie monster


Posts: 1695
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Thanks everyone for the responses (and I'd seen that quote from the manual), but I am still rather confused:

1) So how do I even know if partisan supply missions are being conducted--is it logged somewhere?

Look in battles air and you can see transports and bomber supply missions.

You can also see from show battles function. There's a symbol on the map.

2) I don't understand how close these various units have to be to be able to conduct drops to the partisans--how deep can they go?

Depends on the plane U2 is short range. Grab some from the pool and manually upgrade to long range.

3) Do we really need this level of micromanagement just for partisans to appear? I've got to distinguish between six different types of airbases (VVS, DBAD, AD DD, GAD DD, and GDBAD), turn on night missions, guess what the range is, etc. And how do I do manual drops? I've tried to shift-right click, but nothing happened, maybe I didn't have the right kind of airbase in range, with night missions, etc. Very possible that I'm missing something, but until now I've basically ignored the air war, and I find this level of detail rather tedious to deal with, especially if the effort put into partisan supply does not make a dramatic difference in partisan activity...

Just give me my partisans!

Air transport missions for bombers must be their first mission flown in the turn. Make sure you have some transports on day missions and fly with fighter cover.

I don't know how to fly night transport drops manually.

Once set up at VVS airbases night partisan supply runs auto and needs no further input.


(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 6
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/25/2011 3:33:16 PM   
redmarkus4


Posts: 3918
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		I have also struggled with this. It's way too complex.

IMO, low level partisan ops should occur automatically, without supply drops. ENHANCED partisan operations, with NKVD squads etc. should be activated by the player assigning a supply drop manually to a selected partisan unit. This way I could prioritise certain areas while the others continue by raiding farms and warehouses, or taking weapons from the Germans...

Finally, partisan units that are within (say) 5 hexes of the front after summer '43 should be at a higher level of effectiveness to reflect their hope that liberation is at hand.

_____________________________

Managers read statistics and tune processes. Leaders interpret statistics and determine strategy.

(in reply to cookie monster)
Post #: 7
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/25/2011 3:46:03 PM   
cookie monster


Posts: 1695
Joined: 5/22/2005
From: Birmingham,England
Status: offline 		Its not really complex

A few simple steps

1. Pick a VVS airbase near the partisans

2.Assign a transport to night duties

3.Check show battles next turn to check air drops carried out

Only gets complicated when the AI/opponent assigns night fighters and intercepts your transports

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 8
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/25/2011 3:51:38 PM   
Paul McNeely

 

Posts: 607
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Thanks everyone for the responses (and I'd seen that quote from the manual), but I am still rather confused:

1) So how do I even know if partisan supply missions are being conducted--is it logged somewhere?


You see them fly during the start of your turn. All you need to do is put your TAPs with U2(trans) on night mission in VVS bases and move those bases to say 5-10 hexs of the front line. The computer does the rest. Also if you select "show combats" you will see the hexes where the supplies are dropped marked with a paradrop symbol. Once they are on the map the TAP with U2's will be auto renamed to LTAP.

quote:

2) I don't understand how close these various units have to be to be able to conduct drops to the partisans--how deep can they go?


Rather deep, I am seeing them fly up to 200 miles, and around 100-150 miles behind the lines. The radius is not the issue, the range is...the radius of the U2 is 92 miles so their range is 270 miles...and that is about how far I see them flying. If you want more range switch out a unit to the TB-3G-2 put in a VVS base with night missions enabled and it will fly as well.

quote:

3) Do we really need this level of micromanagement just for partisans to appear? I've got to distinguish between six different types of airbases (VVS, DBAD, AD DD, GAD DD, and GDBAD), turn on night missions, guess what the range is, etc. And how do I do manual drops? I've tried to shift-right click, but nothing happened, maybe I didn't have the right kind of airbase in range, with night missions, etc. Very possible that I'm missing something, but until now I've basically ignored the air war, and I find this level of detail rather tedious to deal with, especially if the effort put into partisan supply does not make a dramatic difference in partisan activity...


At the start of a turn, open the CR. Change the new TAP to night flying and auto upgrade*. Close the CR. Go to a VVS base. Select assign. Pick a couple of better trained TAPs with U2(trans) and assign them to this base. Make sure the base is relatively close to the front line, since your recon birds are likely based here that is nearly automatic. Do the rest of your turn.

From then on the computer does its best to fly supplies to the partisans. Who do a fine job blowing up rail lines all over the place. You have 1 VVS base per front air command, assign 2 LTAPs to each one and the computer will do the rest.

Manual drops can't be conducted to partisans I don't think. As for other units to air drop supplies to them, go into air transport mode, right click on the unit, select the groups you wish to use and go launch.

*if this is the first time you do this, change all your existing U2(trans) TAPs to night flying (click on the first N to make it a Y and auto upgrade if you wish). Then just do this every turn with the new arrivals.

< Message edited by Paul McNeely -- 1/25/2011 4:03:00 PM >

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 9
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/25/2011 4:36:59 PM   
redmarkus4


Posts: 3918
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		Ok, it's simple :)

But adding lots of simple tasks together results in a complex task and WiTP has LOTS of simple tasks.

Partisans are certainly an aspect of the game that could be improved, IMO.

I would like more complexity in other areas, such as production choices and factory upgrades, etc. But not micro managing partisan supply when I can't even issue them with orders about where and when to attack...

_____________________________

Managers read statistics and tune processes. Leaders interpret statistics and determine strategy.

(in reply to Paul McNeely)
Post #: 10
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/25/2011 4:53:52 PM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks everyone for the replies, I hope that my partisans will by blowing stuff up in no time...

(in reply to redmarkus4)
Post #: 11
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/26/2011 7:36:10 AM   
Paul McNeely

 

Posts: 607
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I'm not sure how you can complain of micro management when there is actually nothing you as the player have to do other than provide some LTAP groups.  I seriously spend more time admiring my growing army of partisans and getting frustrated at 25% U2(trans) losses followed by chuckling over how much rail they keep damaging then I spend "doing" anything.  It is hard to see how you could reduce more since it already is pretty much none.  It takes me longer to write what to do then to do it.  And I hope they never allow players to mess with production, that does nothing more than produce min-maxed gamey crap-a-doodle.  I had enough of that with HOIx, not in this game please.

I have partisan units with 300+ victories.  That means 3000 miles of rail damaged by that one battalion alone (which is 700 men strong or so).  An in supply partisan battalion seems to launch a lot of attacks, those that are out of supply will launch one attack every few months so the few minutes of effort it takes to put out some LTAPs will significantly increase the effectiveness of your partisans.  Good luck guys, happy rail destruction.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 12
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/26/2011 9:18:51 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2518
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Take note that no supply missions are plotted during Blizzard as well.

_____________________________

My Blog
Random Wargame Name Generator

(in reply to Paul McNeely)
Post #: 13
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/26/2011 9:20:52 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 1926
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		Using TB-3s, for anything, should be watched carefully since it is an old plane and apparently not in production.

When the partisans really get going they can destroy rail in 8 or 9 bunched up hexes in one turn.

(in reply to Paul McNeely)
Post #: 14
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/26/2011 10:14:53 AM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely

I'm not sure how you can complain of micro management when there is actually nothing you as the player have to do other than provide some LTAP groups...It is hard to see how you could reduce more since it already is pretty much none.  It takes me longer to write what to do then to do it. 


First, thanks for your help, I set up the VVS bases as you indicated, and last turn was pleased to see the German rear spotted with numerous drop symbols (previously--none). Hopefully partisan attacks will soon follow.

But I don't agree that the players have to do "nothing" to get partisans working. In addition to a couple of early war scenarios, I'm 16 turns into a campaign game and have not seen any partisan activity until now, when I've set up my air bases properly.

First I've got to find the VVS bases out of the mass of other air units, and move them as far forward as possible, where they get lost under other units. Then I've got to make sure that they have the right type of planes (some of my VVS bases had NO planes, others only recon, etc.). Then I've got to make sure that at least some of them are activated for night missions. Then throughout the game, I've got to keep checking the VVS bases to ensure that they stay close to the front and that they have adequate planes. Not that I know how many planes are really necessary or desirable--10 per base? 50? 100? Dunno...

OK, not overwhelming but more of a pain than I think is justified given that partisans act autonomously in any event. Why not just allow players to spend a certain number of AP for "partisan supply" and be done with it?



(in reply to Paul McNeely)
Post #: 15
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/26/2011 10:41:17 AM   
Paul McNeely

 

Posts: 607
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline 		You're welcome. I hope you start seeing lots of "detonator" symbols...should take you a couple of weeks and then they will start to be there.

I agree that you have to invest effort in sorting out the mess.  But I hate to say this if you want to use your air force you have to start learning about it.  Bases will eventually be disbanded, you will get new bases, due to some bugs there are issues in plane use.  I have  book with all the bases and the plane groups in each base listed.  I don't use it as much anymore since things have gotten more systematic and I limit my player directed plane use.

The way partisan resupply is done now, the axis player can interfere with the resupply of the partisans by setting his fighters to night missions.  Also partisans deep behind his lines are less of a threat then they would be if you didn't have to do this.  I have 3 battalions way back near Tarnopol that do very little compared to the ones that are near Smolensk and who get routinely resupplied.

You have to do a lot of what you are saying is a pain anyway, the partisans are a bonus that you get essentially for free.  The VVS bases pretty much start with no planes, but then the initial allocation of planes and bases is far from ideal.  I've invested over the last oh 35 turns I guess a few tens of hours in doing some shifting of planes to try and standardize or "optimize."   But I'm still experimenting with where bases should be placed best, what planes should be where, etc.  Also over time your supply of long range recon planes will go down, so you will start doing recon with U2(recon), R-5, R-10 and maybe the Pe-2(recon).  So you will eventually have to start playing with your recon assets as well.  But for the most part you make so many U2(trans) that you can ignore the LTAP once you put it on the map.  It is likely to stay close to full regardless of the situation, and if it is not well that is nothing you need worry about.  Also...these are the planes you can use for re-supplying your cut off troops so getting them out early and with an even distribution of some sort is a good plan.

But your NBAD night harrassment groups...I hope you have been using them?...are much more work since you have to manually do the target selection and in this case radius comes into play as the U2-VS  only can fly an attack mission 9 hexs from the staging base.

I put as little effort into micromanaging things as possible and to me partisan resupply is about as "fire and forget" as it comes.  Outside of a minor amount of clicking each turn on newly arriving groups (or once every 3 turns if I have better things to do) it is mainly something you have to do once, then tweek every few months as your lines become stable.

I still recall WitP:AE where I had to choose search range, angle, altitude...then attack package management...then try and get supplies from x to y by day upsolon.


< Message edited by Paul McNeely -- 1/26/2011 10:44:53 AM >

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 16
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/26/2011 10:50:03 AM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely
But your NBAD night harrassment groups...I hope you have been using them?...are much more work since you have to manually do the target selection and in this case radius comes into play as the U2-VS  only can fly an attack mission 9 hexs from the staging base.


You're scaring me, man, I have no idea what a NBAD night harrassment group is, or what they do!?

I am still learning the ground game and have essentially completely ignored the air game until now, just so that I can get my partisans...I'd better take another look (or two or three) at the sections of the manual concerning the air war.

(in reply to Paul McNeely)
Post #: 17
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/26/2011 10:54:15 AM   
Jakerson

 

Posts: 506
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely

I'm not sure how you can complain of micro management when there is actually nothing you as the player have to do other than provide some LTAP groups.  I seriously spend more time admiring my growing army of partisans and getting frustrated at 25% U2(trans) losses followed by chuckling over how much rail they keep damaging then I spend "doing" anything.  It is hard to see how you could reduce more since it already is pretty much none.  It takes me longer to write what to do then to do it.  And I hope they never allow players to mess with production, that does nothing more than produce min-maxed gamey crap-a-doodle.  I had enough of that with HOIx, not in this game please.

I have partisan units with 300+ victories.  That means 3000 miles of rail damaged by that one battalion alone (which is 700 men strong or so).  An in supply partisan battalion seems to launch a lot of attacks, those that are out of supply will launch one attack every few months so the few minutes of effort it takes to put out some LTAPs will significantly increase the effectiveness of your partisans.  Good luck guys, happy rail destruction.



Only thing you kind of need to do is to decide how much resources (read plane squadrons) you want to allocate for this task cpu do rest automatically.

Soviet Airforce is decimated by Germans all of the time anyway and Soviets lose 3-5 times more planes than Germans all time so using planes to partisan supply they at least make something good.

(in reply to Paul McNeely)
Post #: 18
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/26/2011 11:56:26 AM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson
Only thing you kind of need to do is to decide how much resources (read plane squadrons) you want to allocate for this task cpu do rest automatically.


No, unfortunately it is not a simple matter of resource allocation--if it is simply a case of resource allocation AP would be a very easy way to deal with it. In fact, as described above, you have to dive into individual airbases, transfer planes, turn on night missions, etc. and then keep tracking that throughout the game. Again, not an overwhelming burden, but IMO more of a pain than is warranted.

I think it would be better to replace all of the current partisan supply mechanics with a choice on each front's info screen for "partisan support" for partisan activity within some sector, which would cost AP. You could then simply decide how many resources (APs) to put into partisan support for that sector. Similarly the Germans could have a choice for "partisan disruption" to deal with interception of supply flights, etc.

(in reply to Jakerson)
Post #: 19
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/26/2011 12:05:49 PM   
Paul McNeely

 

Posts: 607
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paul McNeely
But your NBAD night harrassment groups...I hope you have been using them?...are much more work since you have to manually do the target selection and in this case radius comes into play as the U2-VS  only can fly an attack mission 9 hexs from the staging base.


You're scaring me, man, I have no idea what a NBAD night harrassment group is, or what they do!?

I am still learning the ground game and have essentially completely ignored the air game until now, just so that I can get my partisans...I'd better take another look (or two or three) at the sections of the manual concerning the air war.


I can relate. I don't like to invest a lot of time in the air war and the fiddle faddle but you have to invest some unfortunately.

The NBAP groups are your U2-VS plane groups (automatically set to night attack) that you should have clogging up your reserve. You use them by putting them on your forward air bases and launching harassment attacks at night against (best choice) weak enemy units. Takes a while but they get experience and 3 NBAPs flying against a target will kill 3-5 guns, and some squads each week.

It isn't the world but it adds up, plus at least based on what I see it drops the supply level of the unit, I think the attack does something to resupply, and it lowers their morale by 1 pt if you do enough damage. But actually getting hits is hard, and keeping the base close enough harder yet.

Also, there are ways to automate the air war, I think you can for example select a mode (say bomb airfield) and turn on the AI and it will run missions. You can also in the air base window set a demand (I want 4 groups), that have a range of (anything), (<20 hexes), (>41 hexs), (max 40 hexs) and the computer will do its best to fill up the air base.

I don't say a lot about air bases and the air war in my AAR so I doubt reading it would help you much, although I think in turn 9 I commented about putting out the LTAPs. You have any questions I'll try and help but frankly I am still experimenting myself with bases, planes and missions.

< Message edited by Paul McNeely -- 1/26/2011 12:07:17 PM >

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 20
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/26/2011 11:57:47 PM   
Jakerson

 

Posts: 506
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm
No, unfortunately it is not a simple matter of resource allocation--if it is simply a case of resource allocation AP would be a very easy way to deal with it. In fact, as described above, you have to dive into individual airbases, transfer planes, turn on night missions, etc. and then keep tracking that throughout the game. Again, not an overwhelming burden, but IMO more of a pain than is warranted.

I think it would be better to replace all of the current partisan supply mechanics with a choice on each front's info screen for "partisan support" for partisan activity within some sector, which would cost AP. You could then simply decide how many resources (APs) to put into partisan support for that sector. Similarly the Germans could have a choice for "partisan disruption" to deal with interception of supply flights, etc.



I admit that there could have been some press this button to do AI partisan resupply for lazy players like there is for recon and air base bombardment but I dont see it that way I just transfer some VVS airbases where I want to assing some transport units to them and lock air unit allocation to them so AI wont do anything to my dedicated partisan resupply air bases. I dont really need to look my VVS bases every turn. Maybe once in four turns I go check them and send weakened units back to national reserve and assign more units.

I perfectly understand desing choice of partisan resupply as logistics is kind of the thing in this game and plane ranges have big impact of partisan resupply.

AP allocatin would just break finely tuned logistic model in this game.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 21
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/27/2011 2:45:05 AM   
randallw

 

Posts: 1926
Joined: 9/2/2010
Status: offline 		The idea of partisan resupply by air is that if they don't get supplies that way, how would it happen?  You spend APs, and they'd magically get supplies?

Going deeper into the rules, the computer will try to use transports, at VVS bases, for partisan supplying.  Tac bombers or level bombers at non VVS bases will work just fine if the priority setup isn't available.  After that you just need to avoid allowing lots of planes to die and the partisans will get what they need.

Partisan groups start out small, then will grow into larger units with supplies and NKVD squads.  Eventually they might tangle with a few German divisions or regiments.

(in reply to Jakerson)
Post #: 22
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/27/2011 7:44:50 AM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

The idea of partisan resupply by air is that if they don't get supplies that way, how would it happen?  You spend APs, and they'd magically get supplies?


Uh, no, not via magic, the whole point of APs is that they represent abstract resources. Same way you spend APs and get fort zones or new units (which also do not appear magically), but the men and fortifications appear because you expend AP (abstract resources) to obtain them. Therefore AP expenditure could also easily represent the planes necessary for partisan supply.

And LOL I don't mind being called a lazy player but think that it is a bit of an exaggeration to say that using AP for this would "break finely tuned logistic model in the game."

(in reply to randallw)
Post #: 23
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/27/2011 8:14:19 AM   
Paul McNeely

 

Posts: 607
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I think it would be too easy to abuse a pure AP system, and frankly I have enough use for APs that I don't see that a rules change in that direction would be beneficial.

I admit to often getting side tracked by the pretty details but I'm a bit gob smacked when I see partisan resupply equated to a micro-management hell.  Partisans are just something that happens for you, they come about because you do things you should do anyway or are forced to do if you take into account your recon air groups will eventually be flying that ...words fail here... U2(recon) plane.  They are gravy...and at times right tasty gravy.  I credit them for a lot of my advance south of lake Ilmen in the winter since I am certain that their constant destruction of the limited rail in the region compounded the already terrible supply situation for the Germans.

Keeping track of your reserve air plane groups is far more troublesome then partisan resupply.  The CR screen is your friend but it has a bit of a learning curve as well.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 24
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/27/2011 9:12:28 AM   
76mm


Posts: 1703
Joined: 5/2/2004
Status: offline 		OK, this is probably my last post on this topic, but just to be clear, I don't view partisan supply as "micromanagement hell" and certainly don't consider this anywhere near a game breaker. But as others have pointed out, this game includes a vast amount of rather tedious "mini" (if not micro) management which in aggregate is a bit much for my pea brain.

Nonetheless, I admit to having completely ignored the airwar and air units until now (other than trying to keep airbases from being overrun), but I guess I will turn to this part of the game now that I have a slightly better and almost adequate understanding of the ground war.

Thanks again to everyone for their tips and thoughts on these partisan matters...

(in reply to Paul McNeely)
Post #: 25
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/27/2011 9:35:03 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2518
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm
But as others have pointed out, this game includes a vast amount of rather tedious "mini" (if not micro) management which in aggregate is a bit much for my pea brain.


Don't underestimate your brain.
Wait 'till you see the things that WITP makes you do.

_____________________________

My Blog
Random Wargame Name Generator

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 26
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/27/2011 10:17:08 AM   
Paul McNeely

 

Posts: 607
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

OK, this is probably my last post on this topic, but just to be clear, I don't view partisan supply as "micromanagement hell" and certainly don't consider this anywhere near a game breaker. But as others have pointed out, this game includes a vast amount of rather tedious "mini" (if not micro) management which in aggregate is a bit much for my pea brain.


If you play past turn 1 in this game I suspect "pea brain" isn't a description that can be applied. This is the internet and a forum post so it is hard to be "nuanced" or convey emotions but I'm not accusing you of lazy-ness or stupidity. There is a lot going on in this game, heck I goofed bad over the weather in may...I had this delusion it was 90% rain. Ooops, it ain't.

quote:

Nonetheless, I admit to having completely ignored the airwar and air units until now (other than trying to keep airbases from being overrun), but I guess I will turn to this part of the game now that I have a slightly better and almost adequate understanding of the ground war.

Thanks again to everyone for their tips and thoughts on these partisan matters...


As a soviet player you can ignore your airforce until January of 42 and it will make no difference then if you spent a lot of time and effort on it. There seems to be a programed gutting of it. In 41 you are lucky to get 30 airplanes total to fly, in the first week of 42 that will change to 300 planes flying. It is night and day. Your pilots are not the greatest but if they have been in combat through 41 then you should have people getting up into the 70's and the bulk of your crews should be in the 60's. They won't be as effective as the Luftwaffe and you are going to loose bad in fighter dogfighting but you will start to massacre unescorted bomber strikes and your air support will start showing up as a sizable whoomp to the enemy pre-battle. The Luftwaffe can obtain local air superiority where it wants it but it can't dominate the skys everywhere anymore.

I use my bombers in night attacks on the enemy air bases and it looks to be doing ok. The results vary from week to week but overall I am exchanging my obsolete planes for the enemy's modern ones so to me it is pure profit.

Be advised that there is a display bug. The losses numbers don't start incrementing until a unit is destroyed. So if you say damage 3 artillery pieces, then destroy an AT-Rifle unit your losses will show only the 2 men in the AT-Rifle. If you then damage another unit the losses will show up normally (damage is generally half men lost compared to destroyed). It means that it may look like your attack did nothing but that is just because your bombs only damaged things.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 27
RE: Partisan Supply? - 1/27/2011 3:59:00 PM   
redmarkus4


Posts: 3918
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

The idea of partisan resupply by air is that if they don't get supplies that way, how would it happen?  You spend APs, and they'd magically get supplies?


Uh, no, not via magic, the whole point of APs is that they represent abstract resources. Same way you spend APs and get fort zones or new units (which also do not appear magically), but the men and fortifications appear because you expend AP (abstract resources) to obtain them. Therefore AP expenditure could also easily represent the planes necessary for partisan supply.

And LOL I don't mind being called a lazy player but think that it is a bit of an exaggeration to say that using AP for this would "break finely tuned logistic model in the game."



100% correct IMHO. A completely logical take on things. Unfortunately, I fear you are wasting your breath... :(

_____________________________

Managers read statistics and tune processes. Leaders interpret statistics and determine strategy.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 28
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Partisan Supply? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.223